W vs. L
quote:Originally posted by MadDogPA:
Schmidt was great when the game was NOT on the line.
The eye test is the way. While I'm no expert by any stretch on the finest details and every technical aspect of the game, I would assume ways to judge a hitter is to watch him against good pitching an see how he handles his at-bats. Does he fight off tough pitches? Can he stay back on pitches and not get badly fooled any time something other than a fastball is thrown? Does he go up there with a plan and can he hit the ball hard?
Pitching, I would think it's obviously control and velocity but also how the pitcher conducts himself on the mound such as reactions after making a bad pitch and paying for it or keep his composure and continue on with the job at hand, does he work quick and have an idea what he's doing?
Another thing that might not mean much to some but I've often observed how players act on the field such as pregame stretching, throwing and preparation. Just from that, I can get some idea who the "players" are. It's kind of a first impression thing. Also, the players who hustle on and off the field between innings..Who on the bench goes out and warms up players etc..Now this might not tell the stat line but it may indicate who's prepared and ready to play. At least to me anyway..
Pitching, I would think it's obviously control and velocity but also how the pitcher conducts himself on the mound such as reactions after making a bad pitch and paying for it or keep his composure and continue on with the job at hand, does he work quick and have an idea what he's doing?
Another thing that might not mean much to some but I've often observed how players act on the field such as pregame stretching, throwing and preparation. Just from that, I can get some idea who the "players" are. It's kind of a first impression thing. Also, the players who hustle on and off the field between innings..Who on the bench goes out and warms up players etc..Now this might not tell the stat line but it may indicate who's prepared and ready to play. At least to me anyway..
quote:What is the SINGLE most important BATTING and PITCHING STAT, to you, that signify's and illustrates a strong performer.
It depends on the level of play. The higher the level the more important all stats become. Not sure there is a SINGLE stat that is most important.
quote:I know there are HUNDREDS of stats, but I'm just curious - when you hear of a top talent what is the the first stat you look at.
Once again if I hear of a top "high school age" talent and I have never seen him... The stats that might cause me to go see him...
Pitcher - First - Strike outs - Is he missing bats? Shows good stuff and possible good velocity. Next - Walks - Does he throw strikes? Strike percentage on various pitches if that stat is available. These stats don't always mean the pitcher is a good prospect, but they do create interest. You still have to see them to know for sure.
Position player - Can he hit for power? Home runs? Extra Base hits? Does he strike out a lot? Power and power consistancy are at a premium these days. Lots of home runs can create interest. Still have to see them before making a judgement.
A high school player hitting .500 is great, but that alone would not create a lot of interest if the stats show no power.
Stats, bad stats, are most important when a player is already known as a prospect. After all, if someone is truly a top prospect, he should do well in high school. When these type players have "bad" stats in high school it creates doubt. This usually pertains to HS hitters and you definitely have to look at how many walks the hitter has. Sometimes the top guys don't get many pitches to hit.
The other thing that could cause bad stats in high school is injury. Obviously that is always a concern. So bad stats could mean lots of things, but for sure it's a red flag.
Even in high school the competition sometimes dictate how great the stats might look. The same stats in a California, Florida, Texas player and and players from some other states doesn't mean those players are anywhere near the same ability. Then again, it could because the best player can come from anywhere.
No single stat however, I'm looking for the well rounded position player, offense as well as defense. The player may be impressive with the bat but if they're a liability with the glove and/or their arm (strength/accuracy) then their overall effectiveness is diminished. Keeping your opponent OFF the bases is just as important as your team getting on.
quote:Originally posted by snowman:
No single stat however, I'm looking for the well rounded position player, offense as well as defense. The player may be impressive with the bat but if they're a liability with the glove and/or their arm (strength/accuracy) then their overall effectiveness is diminished. Keeping your opponent OFF the bases is just as important as your team getting on.
I think that’s what every coach would look for, if every coach’s situation was that they had a well-rounded and balanced team. But the truth is, every situation’s different. If you’ve got 8 bangers, the importance of how well the player you need can hit is diminished. Our team right now presents a different example. We have decent pitching, solid hitting, and great base running. But we’ve made 18 errors in 6 games, allowing 14 UER’s, and 10 of those E’s have been by 2 players, 1 at short and the other at 3rd. Its so bad, right now I’m pretty sure the coach would gladly put a kid at either position that he had to DH for, and he has done that in 3 of the games!
Something we’ve found to be a “problem”, is that while I keep very detailed defensive records at the V level, none are kept at the JV level. That wouldn’t be a problem, but in the past when the JV coach’s “perception” has been depended on for defensive evaluation, its been pretty bad. That would be ok if there were any kind of defensive stats to look at, but with nothing, it really makes it tough.
I decided to keep stats this year for our team because it hasn't really been done or done correctly in the past. It is amazing to actually know exactly what is really happening over the course of games versus peoples perceptions. The blame outside of keeping stats gets blamed most times on things other than the truth. By blame I am not referring to singling out individuals, I mean that certain aspects (such as pitching overall, offense, defense, unearned runs, etc) of the game do not get properly addressed without accuratley knowing the overall stats that are or should be "correctly" kept.
The best stat to determine a player is going to depend on his role on the team. A bench player may have a .240 batting average. But if he pinch hits .350 and fields two or three positions flawlessly he's far more valuable than his .240 BA may indicate.
Despite having some issues as an analyst, Joe Morgan said something once that makes a lot of sense to me. He looks at a player's runs scored plus RBI's. He said "a good hitter either scores runs or drives in runs, and a great hitter does both."
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:quote:What is the SINGLE most important BATTING and PITCHING STAT, to you, that signify's and illustrates a strong performer.
It depends on the level of play. The higher the level the more important all stats become. Not sure there is a SINGLE stat that is most important.quote:I know there are HUNDREDS of stats, but I'm just curious - when you hear of a top talent what is the the first stat you look at.
Once again if I hear of a top "high school age" talent and I have never seen him... The stats that might cause me to go see him...
Pitcher - First - Strike outs - Is he missing bats? Shows good stuff and possible good velocity. Next - Walks - Does he throw strikes? Strike percentage on various pitches if that stat is available. These stats don't always mean the pitcher is a good prospect, but they do create interest. You still have to see them to know for sure.
Position player - Can he hit for power? Home runs? Extra Base hits? Does he strike out a lot? Power and power consistancy are at a premium these days. Lots of home runs can create interest. Still have to see them before making a judgement.
A high school player hitting .500 is great, but that alone would not create a lot of interest if the stats show no power.
Stats, bad stats, are most important when a player is already known as a prospect. After all, if someone is truly a top prospect, he should do well in high school. When these type players have "bad" stats in high school it creates doubt. This usually pertains to HS hitters and you definitely have to look at how many walks the hitter has. Sometimes the top guys don't get many pitches to hit.
The other thing that could cause bad stats in high school is injury. Obviously that is always a concern. So bad stats could mean lots of things, but for sure it's a red flag.
Even in high school the competition sometimes dictate how great the stats might look. The same stats in a California, Florida, Texas player and and players from some other states doesn't mean those players are anywhere near the same ability. Then again, it could because the best player can come from anywhere.
PG,
If a position player hits for power and consistency but is only 5' 9", how does that factor in to your evaluation process ? It seems to me that many coaches/recruiters/scouts are enamored by size.
Seems to me the "most important STAT" gets viewed and judged from many different perspectives.
For a player, it seems the most important STAT is the ones you put up tomorrow, and are quickly forgotten.
The other most important STAT is the one any player works hardest to achieve, gets close and pursues them again.
For a HS player, the most important STAT is getting better in every one, especially the ones where the struggle might be the toughest.
For parents, the most important STAT is the one our son's put up today and yesterday.
For coaches, especially in college, the most important STAT is likely to be those that get the team to a W, combined with grading execution of each play/AB and pitch which got a W or L..
For Milb, the most important STAT are the ones they write down after every AB or batter/inning and report to the GM and scouting director before they go to bed each night.
For a player, it seems the most important STAT is the ones you put up tomorrow, and are quickly forgotten.
The other most important STAT is the one any player works hardest to achieve, gets close and pursues them again.
For a HS player, the most important STAT is getting better in every one, especially the ones where the struggle might be the toughest.
For parents, the most important STAT is the one our son's put up today and yesterday.
For coaches, especially in college, the most important STAT is likely to be those that get the team to a W, combined with grading execution of each play/AB and pitch which got a W or L..
For Milb, the most important STAT are the ones they write down after every AB or batter/inning and report to the GM and scouting director before they go to bed each night.
OBP is the most important hitting stat followed by Slug%. Batting average should rank lower to anybody who really knows the game.
The number 1 job of every hitter is to not make an out. A .190 hitter with a .395 OBP is much more valuable than the hitter with a .267 average / .330 OBP.
The hitter with the low batting average but good OBP and Slug% gets overlooked waaaaay too many times by people who don't know the game.
Pitchers are trickier...I want pitchers that get ahead and make hitters defensive. K's are very nice but less valuable if you walk somebody every inning.
The number 1 job of every hitter is to not make an out. A .190 hitter with a .395 OBP is much more valuable than the hitter with a .267 average / .330 OBP.
The hitter with the low batting average but good OBP and Slug% gets overlooked waaaaay too many times by people who don't know the game.
Pitchers are trickier...I want pitchers that get ahead and make hitters defensive. K's are very nice but less valuable if you walk somebody every inning.
I just noticed the actuall title of this thread is... The most important STAT to signify performance
So much of what I have posted would not be revelent to that. Performace and potential or even talent is not always the same thing. Obviously anyone who has great stats is performing very well. I was looking at more from a scouting perspective.
Actually I too am enamored by size. However, not so enamored that I can't see talent. Talent trumps everything including size. I have seen many 5'9" players capable of playing at any level including the Big Leagues. Also, power is power, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Over all, bigger players tend to have more power, but not always. 5'9" is big enough to make the Hall of Fame!
Perhaps the size thing relates more to pitching. The 5'9" guy has to be extra special (check out Duke University). The 6'5" guy doesn't have to be quite as good presently in order to create scouting interest.
So much of what I have posted would not be revelent to that. Performace and potential or even talent is not always the same thing. Obviously anyone who has great stats is performing very well. I was looking at more from a scouting perspective.
quote:PG,
If a position player hits for power and consistency but is only 5' 9", how does that factor in to your evaluation process ? It seems to me that many coaches/recruiters/scouts are enamored by size.
Actually I too am enamored by size. However, not so enamored that I can't see talent. Talent trumps everything including size. I have seen many 5'9" players capable of playing at any level including the Big Leagues. Also, power is power, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Over all, bigger players tend to have more power, but not always. 5'9" is big enough to make the Hall of Fame!
Perhaps the size thing relates more to pitching. The 5'9" guy has to be extra special (check out Duke University). The 6'5" guy doesn't have to be quite as good presently in order to create scouting interest.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
I just noticed the actuall title of this thread is... The most important STAT to signify performance
So much of what I have posted would not be revelent to that. Performace and potential or even talent is not always the same thing. Obviously anyone who has great stats is performing very well. I was looking at more from a scouting perspective.quote:PG,
If a position player hits for power and consistency but is only 5' 9", how does that factor in to your evaluation process ? It seems to me that many coaches/recruiters/scouts are enamored by size.
Actually I too am enamored by size. However, not so enamored that I can't see talent. Talent trumps everything including size. I have seen many 5'9" players capable of playing at any level including the Big Leagues. Also, power is power, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Over all, bigger players tend to have more power, but not always. 5'9" is big enough to make the Hall of Fame!
Perhaps the size thing relates more to pitching. The 5'9" guy has to be extra special (check out Duke University). The 6'5" guy doesn't have to be quite as good presently in order to create scouting interest.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.Very insightful ! I checked out Duke baseball and learned about Marcus Stroman. Impressive. I hope he makes it to the big leagues some day.