The other side of recruiting

I co-authored a book on recruiting in 1995 named How To Win a Sports Scholarship. It is outdated now,  but we interviewed 100's of coaches and one thing was the same: the coach wants to deal with the player and not the parent. The true fact is, the coach doesn't want to have to deal with the unruly parent for 4 years ....or frankly any parents during player's tenure if coach can help it.  I don't blame them. Just the way of the world. Too many options for coaches unless your kid is absolute top choice. 

Inject yourself when necessary, but otherwise let your son/daughter lead. If and when $'s are concerned, of course get involved. 

All good points on a coach/RC dealing directly with your son.  And they should talk directly.

However, one is a professional recruiter that has recruited 100's to 1000's of kids.  Your son is 15/16/17 and has no experience in what is about to happen.  Start early with teaching your son it is a business, how to talk to adults that want something from you and how recruiting works.

In the end, it's your son going to college to play baseball.  But what good is all the advice on this board if you don't pass those teachings along?

Great point Go44.

I can understand a coach wanting to deal with the kid. But the coach is a professional adult experienced in negotiation. The kid probably hasn't negotiated more than riding shotgun or getting his girlfriend in the back seat. If the negotiation is about tens of thousands of dollars the kid needs adult representation.

My daughter came home explaining the college was only $10,000 more. I responded we're not talking about ten dollars. We're talking about $10,000 dollars TIMES four.

Goodtimes,

Parents have the right to ask any questions they might  afterall they will be paying the bill. My point was about asking questions and when asked for a yes or no answer the player avoids the inevitable.

If you all want honesty, be honest.  Understand it works both ways.

Funny, this discussion just came up between my son, my wife and myself the other day.  I know some of you have read my posts in the past.  My son (2017) has come to the decision he does not want to play college baseball.   He stepped out of the recruiting process just prior to the major recruiting push between his Jr and Sr year.  At that time he was starting to get some "love" from a few schools, mostly mid to low D-1 schools.  He let those that he was corresponding with know that he did not want to play in college.  This past weekend he mentioned to me that he was still receiving emails from coaches, mostly D2 or D3 at this point, but some lower end D1's.  These were different schools then those contacting him prior to his decision not to play.  These were not your typical generic camp invite emails, but rather direct emails from the RC or HC to my son.  This lead to a debate between my wife and I as how to approach these emails.  My son has been ignoring them.  In the end, we decided it was best to send out a generic email to the coaches letting them know that he was no longer interested in playing college baseball.  

In  a perfect world the kid could say "Let me talk about this with my parents.", parents could give the kid some questions, kid could relay questions to the coach and report back to the parents.  But that is a PERFECT world.  In my world my son can't remember what happened an hour ago, and is not capable of relaying life altering information accurately, or completely.

So where does that leave the confused kid?  Not all 15/16 year olds can carry on an adult conversation.  How my son gels with the coach, how my son wants to be used, what the practice schedule is like, and even what the practice facility looks like is 100% up to my kid, really I don't have input into those things.  However, the average 15/16 year old has barely touched on the finance world...why would any parent leave that up to a child?  How can an RC expect it to be left up to a child?

On this topic, this past spring, my 2018 RHP received a very generous offer from a mid-D1. They asked that he let them know his decision within a couple weeks. When my son called the major D1 he had been speaking with to let them know about the offer, the coach told my son, "Putting a deadline on an offer is unfair. If you asked a girl to marry you, do you expect an answer right away?" My son, having never asked a girl to marry him replied, "I guess not."

FFXfireman posted:

On this topic, this past spring, my 2018 RHP received a very generous offer from a mid-D1. They asked that he let them know his decision within a couple weeks. When my son called the major D1 he had been speaking with to let them know about the offer, the coach told my son, "Putting a deadline on an offer is unfair. If you asked a girl to marry you, do you expect an answer right away?" My son, having never asked a girl to marry him replied, "I guess not."

 

Coaches do give deadlines. Thats my point. If your son has been given a deadline and doesnt have the nerve to call and say no, understand thats bad business on his part, just as a coach telling a player they will call with an offer and they dont is bad for business, it works both ways.

TPM posted:

FFXfireman posted:

On this topic, this past spring, my 2018 RHP received a very generous offer from a mid-D1. They asked that he let them know his decision within a couple weeks. When my son called the major D1 he had been speaking with to let them know about the offer, the coach told my son, "Putting a deadline on an offer is unfair. If you asked a girl to marry you, do you expect an answer right away?" My son, having never asked a girl to marry him replied, "I guess not."

 

Coaches do give deadlines. Thats my point. If your son has been given a deadline and doesnt have the nerve to call and say no, understand thats bad business on his part, just as a coach telling a player they will call with an offer and they dont is bad for business, it works both ways.

 

Oh, there is no question there will be deadlines. My posting speaks more towards an savvy negotiator (coach) taking advantage and getting one over due to a 16 year olds inexperience in the process and life. We hold no grudge, but just chock it up to a "lesson learned" in the process.

FFXfireman posted:

TPM posted:

FFXfireman posted:

On this topic, this past spring, my 2018 RHP received a very generous offer from a mid-D1. They asked that he let them know his decision within a couple weeks. When my son called the major D1 he had been speaking with to let them know about the offer, the coach told my son, "Putting a deadline on an offer is unfair. If you asked a girl to marry you, do you expect an answer right away?" My son, having never asked a girl to marry him replied, "I guess not."

 

Coaches do give deadlines. Thats my point. If your son has been given a deadline and doesnt have the nerve to call and say no, understand thats bad business on his part, just as a coach telling a player they will call with an offer and they dont is bad for business, it works both ways.

 

Oh, there is no question there will be deadlines. My posting speaks more towards an savvy negotiator (coach) taking advantage and getting one over due to a 16 year olds inexperience in the process and life. We hold no grudge, but just chock it up to a "lesson learned" in the process.

I think it is an RC's job to make their program sound appealing.  However, things that sound appealing to a 16 year old might sound like hogwash to a parent.  I don't see how a parent can NOT be overly involved when it comes down to the numbers.

CaCO3Girl posted:

FFXfireman posted:

TPM posted:

FFXfireman posted:

On this topic, this past spring, my 2018 RHP received a very generous offer from a mid-D1. They asked that he let them know his decision within a couple weeks. When my son called the major D1 he had been speaking with to let them know about the offer, the coach told my son, "Putting a deadline on an offer is unfair. If you asked a girl to marry you, do you expect an answer right away?" My son, having never asked a girl to marry him replied, "I guess not."

 

Coaches do give deadlines. Thats my point. If your son has been given a deadline and doesnt have the nerve to call and say no, understand thats bad business on his part, just as a coach telling a player they will call with an offer and they dont is bad for business, it works both ways.

 

Oh, there is no question there will be deadlines. My posting speaks more towards an savvy negotiator (coach) taking advantage and getting one over due to a 16 year olds inexperience in the process and life. We hold no grudge, but just chock it up to a "lesson learned" in the process.

I think it is an RC's job to make their program sound appealing.  However, things that sound appealing to a 16 year old might sound like hogwash to a parent.  I don't see how a parent can NOT be overly involved when it comes down to the numbers.

In case you dont know, recruiting extends beyond HS players. This includes transfers as well as Juco players.

This thread is actually more important to recruiting  than most that I read here.  I fully understand the both sides the player and the RC.  The RC has a job to do. Get the best person/player/student that fits the school/coaches/team/conference/payroll ( so to speak).  Most players need to find the best academic fit/baseball/money.

In this dating game it's best to first educate yourself on the specific rules regarding recruitment at each level. D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO.  Also know the important dates as far as dead periods signing early or late, asking to Early Decision and what that means.

Once you as a parent / player are more informed of the static rules then I suggest you find someone in your area  travel team coach, respected high school coach , local college coach, scout and "practice" talking and answering questions as if it is real.  I did this a lot with my sons....  first rule be with honest with every RC or scout that you talk to and talk  like your talking to a minister.  If you do not know the answer, the best answer is " I do not know, I am new to this and while I am excited that you think enough of my abilities to be a part of your program I need to discuss with my family.   Then ask how you can get in touch with him/her and by all means follow up.

With my 2013 he was being recruited from Juco to play mid-major ball.... later the RC told him one day in practice that his spot was between him and another player.... and the difference was that they liked how 2013 handled himself when he was not playing, the way he walked to the bus, the way he interacted with teammates.

2018 was being recruited by an in-state SEC school.... the coach called the first time and son listened and asked a few questions.  Two days later the coach called back and asked if he wanted to come for a visit, football game, offer ... Son said coach to be honest , for many reasons none which are personal, I do not have your school on my short list and I would rather not lead you on or waste your time.

2014 was being recruited by a D1 school in Kentucky.  The coach called and was all excited to get him up for a visit.  2014 was excited , but his temperament did not show through over the phone. 

After a few weeks of no contact I asked another RC at a different school if he knew why they went cold. He said that they wanted 2014 , but felt he was big leaguing them...  so they went in another direction.

My point is these three stories are different, with different outcomes, but all three had nothing to do with velo, ERA or BA.   

Like at your job.... many people can do it..... but the ones that are honest and likable to a degree get to do it.

LIke.  ^^^  I cut and pasted into my son's recruiting worksheet.

I want to add to my early post, it is against the rules for a RC to contact a 2018.... if you want specifics about how this is done legally send me a PM  it depends on where the player is at, on campus, at a showcase, tourney, etc... thus , educate yourself

I'm going to play devil's advocate just for all of the players/parents who have indeed educated themselves, played well and sons have communicated directly to coaches and parents have stayed out of it, done everything essentially "right" -- yet, the process has or did not work out as well as for example bacdorslider (or anyone else with success, not to diminish their success at ALL, just to say there are plenty that just don't get there).  

In fact, we saw a kid we know very well at a well known high academic showcase this summer.  Dad talked to all the coaches directly, one Ivy for 45 minutes straight.  I stood around the corner to hear the conversation.  The dad was saying how his son is just learning to pitch (he has been pitching for 8 years, just was never very good at it, so not exactly true) and asking about overnight visits, discussing his son's scores, etc.  Nothing the kid could not have said.  Dad was pushy and everywhere. Kid had multiple offers and going to that same Ivy actually.  OK OK he hit 90 on the radar gun, but still.  Plus the kid is just not a very "high character" kid, but oh well.  

Our 2017 has handled himself to all the coaches, emails, phones calls, texts.  He speaks to adults well and has handled himself properly.  Well, I am positive TPM's son (and Prepster's son and other coaches and sons on this site who coach) would never ever do this...but 2017 has been lied to and mislead by several coaches.  That does not include all the ones who strung him along.  This is not hearing what you want to hear, or over-recruiting or exploding offers.  These are outright lies:

"You are the only LHP we are looking at" (and one commits the next day)

"We would love for you to play for us and will offer you admissions support, please come visit and stay overnight with the team etc" (and then after visiting, after a great follow up with HC, with NO deadline, no warning and seemingly out of the blue, the RC emails a few days later -- instead of calls -- we can no longer provide admissions support but you can still apply and try and get in and walk on)

"You are one of our top recruits and we want you to come and visit and stay overnight in the fall."  Son is thrilled and says so on the spot, contacts them the next day to set up the weekend and they never respond. 

More examples but it makes me mad/sad/frustrated just typing them out.  I don't mean to hijack this thread, just want those out there to know that it isn't always smooth sailing, and there are SOME (notice I am not tainting all of them or us) coaches and SOME players who are just a little less than honest.  

TWOBOYS,

Thank you for sharing your experience.  Very sorry to hear about this.  I am not surprised, however. 

Perhaps this should go on a different thread... 

I was going to originate a post, as "we" are going through the transfer process with my older son.  Brought back some horror stories from 2012 and again with my 2016 last year. 

I have been blown away by the kindness of so many coaches we've met on this transfer journey.  My wife and I have tried to stay out of it as much as possible.  But when we've been on visits with my son, these coaching staffs have been so gracious, particularly given my son's story.

That said, there are some really bad eggs in this business like anywhere else I suppose.  When my son wraps this up, we can commiserate on whether to begin another ugly recruiting stories thread.  But what you've posted highlights that there are multiple sides and many stories out there.  I hate to hear about kids doing it right not getting that opportunity.

I have found out through my oldest that it is best to coach your son and encourage him NOT to make any decisions without discussing it with the family. It is best to be honest with the coach and say that this is a big decision and it is best i talk it over with my family. Most decent human beings will understand that. If they don't, then you dont want your son playing for that coach 

Yes!  What Nxt lvl just said...At a recent visit just last week (yes the recruiting path for 2017 is not over despite many gloom and doom people who say so) HC told 2017, "I'm being totally honest with you, as I am with everyone I want on my team. I hope you will be to me too."  It was AWESOME to hear the HC verbalize that.

He went on to say anyone guaranteeing 2017 playing time NOW is likely not being honest, as what coach can know now how everyone will look 12/16 months from now, including his new recruits against his current team.  Boys grow, boys develop, boys work hard, boys rise to new levels of competition...