Midlo- I am referring to his future as a professional pitcher as dime-a-dozen . He was a max effort guy with an average build in high school. He rarely was 95 and more like 90-92. I saw him play in the USA Baseball JO's against us (2005) and he was 88-90 but straight with an average breaking ball ( good pitcher for a rising junior). He had great power (I loved his swing) but had a tough time with a breaking ball and missed too many pitches. Regarding the new glove thing- I'm sorry but he was not a very good receiver back then. Great arm, bad feet, stiff hands (he's gotten much better).
Beezer- Regarding his birth date, he was going to be a legitimate senior when he jumped to USC. The cut-off in California is up to January. Kids are recruited and drafted by grade, not age. Plenty of others that started college at age 17. He had three years of high school baseball. Sorry if you don't agree or get it.
Bear- He's 18 and a half and listed at a generous 6'1. Where do you get possibly projected at 6'3? The rest of your post is, well, interesting.
This kid has been hyped by people for years since he was 14. Ever heard of Andy Beal? Top player in the country for his age when he was young. He's now an average college guy. Some of the top young players in the country (Baseball America's Players For the Ages as the best resource I know) turn out to be average , good players. I've seen it for years and I don't think it helps these kids to be hyped so early.
Stock is a good talent who made a good decision for himself based on his situation. He was a smart kid who could handle college-work and would be more prepared to play professional baseball with three years of college under his belt. I bet he does just fine at the next level. That said, there will be plenty of players HIS AGE that will be as good or better than him when all is said and done. That's not to detract from his ability- it's just that young players mature and progress at different rates.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
BEAR
Personally I think it is a recipe for arm disater
RIZZI,
Injuries are NOT like the old days. One and done. Today,
GM's are paying these type of athletics big bucks
(i.e. $1.5 M) to sign, even with severe career threatening injuries,
(and go under the knife with the medical staff of the parent clubs).
Remember "Big Rude"? And a Consensus All-American as
a two way player. He threw a zillion more IP's at Wash St Univ, had surgery Jr year in college, is in the College Baseball Hall of Fame in Lubbock, went directly to the big leagues, (may be tied as slowest afoot position player to do that or maybe tied with "Inca" ) and had a terrific 17 years in the bigs before retiring in 2005.
So to answer your question. Doesn't matter.
The kid at USC has a future!
ncball: Are you becoming boring? Try not to get 'old' at ...what age are you...39? Geez, I'm a grandfather, and maybe you should think about getting a tad more enthusiastic about these great amateur players seeking dreams. Heck, Rizzi is so old he sometimes has bird poop on his shoulder from standing around (like Al Kaline in right field), but no one that I know can say Rizzi is boring by any sense of the imagination (not even his bride!) I was with Ryan Braun's Mom two weeks ago. What a happy lady as she was smiling telling war stories about chasing me around the parking lot behind the stadium in Jacksonville. It's very cool just being around happy Mom's. Give it a try.
As a freshman. Stock was 17.......
....Some of the younger HS kids have another growth spurt.
Is your gas tank ...half full?
quote:Regarding his birth date, he was going to be a legitimate senior when he jumped to USC. The cut-off in California is up to January. Kids are recruited and drafted by grade, not age. Plenty of others that started college at age 17.
With a birthday of Nov. 21, 1989, Stock was actually 16 when he started college. He did not turn 17 until late November of his freshman year at USC.
My son will be 19 when he begins college and several of his friends will be 19 1/2. That is pretty prevalent in this day and age when many parents hold their kids, especially their boys, back to give them an extra year of social and academic maturity.
Bear- I'm glad you're a happy guy. I'm very happy myself. Thanks for caring. Good luck to Mr. Stock. This poor kid has been under a microscope with constant hype since he was 12 years old.
Infield08- You left out the part that said he had already played three years of high school baseball. His age was appropriate for his grade. Therefore, he skipped one grade- not two.
BTW- Parents in Texas (and other southern states) hold their kids back for SPORTS and no other reason. Don't lie about that. This is not prevalent throughout the country and it's kind of sad.
BTW- Parents in Texas (and other southern states) hold their kids back for SPORTS and no other reason. Don't lie about that. This is not prevalent throughout the country and it's kind of sad.
Everyone likes Robert Stock and is pulling for him. He's a good kid, talented and very intelligent. I understand the concern TR has and hope Robert stays healthy. Robert is one of the most talked about youth and HS players ever. Truth is he is like many other talented kids who have room for improvement.
Something not mentioned here…
USC is one of the best places to go if you are a catcher.
Another very highly regarded HS catcher was Jeff Clement from Iowa. He holds the record for most HRs in high school and was considered a possible early pick out of hs. Problem was that his biggest weakness was receiving and footwork. He also had/has a very strong arm and could throw 90+ on the mound. His receiving ability made him too big of a gamble to draft early out of hs and he slipped down a ways in the draft. So he went to Southern Cal for three years.
After three years at USC he became a better catcher and was drafted early in the first round (3rd pick overall) and signed for 3.5 million or somewhere around there.
I agree with ncball about Robert and would guess that ncball has seen him play much more than most of us on this board.
He had/has a very strong arm and some real good power from the left side, like Clement, but not consistent Jeff Clement type power. His biggest weakness was receiving and quickness (feet) behind the plate, similar to Clement. He is not what you would call extremely athletic, Clement maybe a bit better athlete. He had/has good power, but there were many in his class that had much more “raw” power and others who were better hitting prospects.
IMO, it would have been highly unlikely that Robert would have gone in the first couple rounds out of HS, let alone the top 10 picks of the first round. So I don’t think he turned down millions at all and maybe his parents realized that. Being that Robert was such a high profile player, surely they talked to some honest scouts along the way.
That said, based on what happened to Jeff Clement, I think Robert went to the right college and very well could become an early pick if he progresses as much as Clement did at USC, but at a younger age. I hope he does because he is a great kid.
I have no thoughts regarding how he is being used. Matt Wieters did the same thing at Georgia Tech and it seems everything worked out well in his case. I do think that Robert has a ways to go to reach Matt Wieters ability, even at the same age! I do think that Robert and Jeff Clement are a good comparison, though Jeff quit pitching after HS. No one can deny Robert Stock’s arm strength, it is real. I’m still not convinced he won’t end up being a pitcher in pro ball.
Hope no one takes this as anything negative. I’m a very big Robert Stock fan. It’s just that most people who have bragged him up so much over the years haven’t seen him as much as we have. In fact, I think some who brag him up to legendary status have never actually seen him play at all and are basing everything on what has been written.
Bottom line… Great kid, great makeup, big arm, possible big bat, still has some work to do and he’s in the right place to get that done. I haven’t seen him this year, but would bet he is getting to be a much better receiver. I consider his age as an advantage, but he is much more experienced than most his age. We wouldn’t be talking about him if he wasn’t an outstanding player. There are just many different levels of outstanding as there are levels of maturity.
Something not mentioned here…
USC is one of the best places to go if you are a catcher.
Another very highly regarded HS catcher was Jeff Clement from Iowa. He holds the record for most HRs in high school and was considered a possible early pick out of hs. Problem was that his biggest weakness was receiving and footwork. He also had/has a very strong arm and could throw 90+ on the mound. His receiving ability made him too big of a gamble to draft early out of hs and he slipped down a ways in the draft. So he went to Southern Cal for three years.
After three years at USC he became a better catcher and was drafted early in the first round (3rd pick overall) and signed for 3.5 million or somewhere around there.
I agree with ncball about Robert and would guess that ncball has seen him play much more than most of us on this board.
He had/has a very strong arm and some real good power from the left side, like Clement, but not consistent Jeff Clement type power. His biggest weakness was receiving and quickness (feet) behind the plate, similar to Clement. He is not what you would call extremely athletic, Clement maybe a bit better athlete. He had/has good power, but there were many in his class that had much more “raw” power and others who were better hitting prospects.
IMO, it would have been highly unlikely that Robert would have gone in the first couple rounds out of HS, let alone the top 10 picks of the first round. So I don’t think he turned down millions at all and maybe his parents realized that. Being that Robert was such a high profile player, surely they talked to some honest scouts along the way.
That said, based on what happened to Jeff Clement, I think Robert went to the right college and very well could become an early pick if he progresses as much as Clement did at USC, but at a younger age. I hope he does because he is a great kid.
I have no thoughts regarding how he is being used. Matt Wieters did the same thing at Georgia Tech and it seems everything worked out well in his case. I do think that Robert has a ways to go to reach Matt Wieters ability, even at the same age! I do think that Robert and Jeff Clement are a good comparison, though Jeff quit pitching after HS. No one can deny Robert Stock’s arm strength, it is real. I’m still not convinced he won’t end up being a pitcher in pro ball.
Hope no one takes this as anything negative. I’m a very big Robert Stock fan. It’s just that most people who have bragged him up so much over the years haven’t seen him as much as we have. In fact, I think some who brag him up to legendary status have never actually seen him play at all and are basing everything on what has been written.
Bottom line… Great kid, great makeup, big arm, possible big bat, still has some work to do and he’s in the right place to get that done. I haven’t seen him this year, but would bet he is getting to be a much better receiver. I consider his age as an advantage, but he is much more experienced than most his age. We wouldn’t be talking about him if he wasn’t an outstanding player. There are just many different levels of outstanding as there are levels of maturity.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Hope no one takes this as anything negative. I’m a very big Robert Stock fan. It’s just that most people who have bragged him up so much over the years haven’t seen him as much as we have. In fact, I think some who brag him up to legendary status have never actually seen him play at all and are basing everything on what has been written.
Yup!
I wish the bottom feeder journalists would just leave this kid alone and let him play.
Going along with what PGStaff said above,
Have you seen this kid catch lately? I've been to a couple USC games this year and its amazing. I was actually there this weekend when they took on Arizona and he was a one man show. Sliding catches in foul territory, fielding bunts not meant to be fielded, as well as throwing baserunners out right and left. I talked to a few scouts that said multiple throws of his were 1.85; they only tried to steal bases a couple times once they realized it was hopeless.
Just like was said above, he was mostly singles and I think one double (only 2 homeruns on the year), but I was more impressed with his defense rather than his offense.
Maybe the question I should have asked in the first place is whether or not he'll be a hitter. His arm and prowess behind the plate were certainly there.
Have you seen this kid catch lately? I've been to a couple USC games this year and its amazing. I was actually there this weekend when they took on Arizona and he was a one man show. Sliding catches in foul territory, fielding bunts not meant to be fielded, as well as throwing baserunners out right and left. I talked to a few scouts that said multiple throws of his were 1.85; they only tried to steal bases a couple times once they realized it was hopeless.
Just like was said above, he was mostly singles and I think one double (only 2 homeruns on the year), but I was more impressed with his defense rather than his offense.
Maybe the question I should have asked in the first place is whether or not he'll be a hitter. His arm and prowess behind the plate were certainly there.
tbirds- Here's the report I got from a player who played against him this weekend. Great arm, bad receiver, doesn't hit great pitching (as he said, "but who does") but will hit mistakes. He hits in the 8 hole in a very average line-up.
FYI- He threw out two out of four runners for the weekend while the Arizona catcher threw out three out of four. It had nothing to do with Arizona not wanting to run and everything to do with a huge lead in one game and very few baserunners in the other two.
I'm not picking on this kid. I just want to see a little reality out there. BTW- I don't buy the 1.85 in a game. That's a pop time reserved for Pudge and a select few others. A real pop time in the game for big-leaguers is closer to 1.90-1.95.
FYI- He threw out two out of four runners for the weekend while the Arizona catcher threw out three out of four. It had nothing to do with Arizona not wanting to run and everything to do with a huge lead in one game and very few baserunners in the other two.
I'm not picking on this kid. I just want to see a little reality out there. BTW- I don't buy the 1.85 in a game. That's a pop time reserved for Pudge and a select few others. A real pop time in the game for big-leaguers is closer to 1.90-1.95.
NCBall,
I was just saying what I saw. I guess me and the player from Arizona will have to disagree with regards to "bad receiver". Everyone has their own ideas and sees different things. So far as throwing out 2 of 4 baserunners, we all know that its just as much dependent on who's pitching and who's running. And so much as 1.85 pop time, you're right in that I wasn't doing any "stopwatching", thats merely what I heard from a couple scouts.
And finally from his hitting, thats exactly the question I was posing. He hits in the 8 hole in an average lineup. Although if you wanna talk about great pitching, just look at the roster of Arizona and you'll see it. Stock was 5 for 8 on the weekend and 4 for 11 the weekend before versus #7 Long Beach State (I promise I didn't know this off the top of my head
), the best pitching they've probably faced all year.
Regardless, I know I certainly came away impressed with his defense, if not his bat. We all have our biases, but I'm willing to bet that a player from Arizona who just got shutout 2 games in a row isn't going to have the best feelings towards any member of the opposing team, especially the youngest, most hyped player.
In every post that I make, I do it for the discussion and conversation because I'm interested in these players. By the way, if you wanted to see an array of scouts this early in the year, they were certainly many of them at this series.
I was just saying what I saw. I guess me and the player from Arizona will have to disagree with regards to "bad receiver". Everyone has their own ideas and sees different things. So far as throwing out 2 of 4 baserunners, we all know that its just as much dependent on who's pitching and who's running. And so much as 1.85 pop time, you're right in that I wasn't doing any "stopwatching", thats merely what I heard from a couple scouts.
And finally from his hitting, thats exactly the question I was posing. He hits in the 8 hole in an average lineup. Although if you wanna talk about great pitching, just look at the roster of Arizona and you'll see it. Stock was 5 for 8 on the weekend and 4 for 11 the weekend before versus #7 Long Beach State (I promise I didn't know this off the top of my head
), the best pitching they've probably faced all year.Regardless, I know I certainly came away impressed with his defense, if not his bat. We all have our biases, but I'm willing to bet that a player from Arizona who just got shutout 2 games in a row isn't going to have the best feelings towards any member of the opposing team, especially the youngest, most hyped player.
In every post that I make, I do it for the discussion and conversation because I'm interested in these players. By the way, if you wanted to see an array of scouts this early in the year, they were certainly many of them at this series.
I took a look at Stock's stats - he is 8 out of 15 in throwing out runners. That's pretty darn good, but clearly they are trying to run on him. Also has three passed balls.
I tend to agree with ncball on the pop time question. I have personally timed at least a dozen MLB catchers in game situations (the magic of DVR) and they are all right around 2.0. Have not seen a 1.9 yet.
Now, I have seen Stock play and I think he is terrific. He's an extraordinary young man and I'll be pleased to see him succeed in the pros.
But I've seen enough hype in my life to recognize it. Keep it real!
I tend to agree with ncball on the pop time question. I have personally timed at least a dozen MLB catchers in game situations (the magic of DVR) and they are all right around 2.0. Have not seen a 1.9 yet.
Now, I have seen Stock play and I think he is terrific. He's an extraordinary young man and I'll be pleased to see him succeed in the pros.
But I've seen enough hype in my life to recognize it. Keep it real!
tbirds- Fair enough. The player I spoke to was actually complimentary about the USC pitchers. BTW- Players don't pay attention to hype. They "play the ball". I simply asked him about the other catcher and those were his observations. They were similar to other players who have faced him.
I'm done with this whole subject. All I was trying to do was bring a little reality to alot of hype. I wish no ill will to the kid and hope he is successful down the line.
I'm done with this whole subject. All I was trying to do was bring a little reality to alot of hype. I wish no ill will to the kid and hope he is successful down the line.
Sounds great. Yeah there's only so much you can talk about when your in agreement 
In fact, concerning the hype and acclaim that Stock has accrued throughout his amateur career, I'd say that it is mostly in part to his age rather than his play. The things that he has accomplished or is doing right now are all remarkable for his age, not necessarily for the feat itself.
Talking about a .333 average hitting catcher with a good arm is special but nothing out of the ordinary. What makes it special is that he's 18. I think thats where he "makes his points".
edit: PGStaff, how does age play into his draft status come next June?
Talking about a .333 average hitting catcher with a good arm is special but nothing out of the ordinary. What makes it special is that he's 18. I think thats where he "makes his points".
edit: PGStaff, how does age play into his draft status come next June?
I am not so sure we need to get hung up on the age thing. This particular player has been playing baseball since T-ball like most all players. His age in "baseball years" would the same as anyone else who started T-ball at the same time he did, and continued to play into high school. Instead of playing that senior year at his high school, he just "played up" if you will. My boys always played up after about 7th grade - often there was a mix of ages, and by the way age didn't always make a whole lot of difference talent wise - guys either had the tools to play up and were given a chance to earn a position, or they stayed with their cronological age group. Often times the older players (and their parents) got quite PO'd that a younger more talented (and often times more experienced)player pushed their guy out of a spot. I have a feeling with what I have read in this thread alone, that young Mr. Stock has been competing at a very high level all along, therefore my term of "baseball years" could actually calculate him to be the same or older "baseball age" as many of his peers at USC and at many D-1 colleges.
I believe that the Stock family made the best possible decision for their son - it does not matter if we agree with it - it is already done and he is on is way.
Surely most of us can understand that at some point the rapid progression of one's talent comes to a bit of a plateau - a new learning curve if you will - once new mastery is obtained with a smart driven player - his progress may then pick up more momentum again, and this process probably (Hopefully) will continue throught his career - whatever that may be.
I do not know this family, but I do know that Thick Skin 101 is one of the first courses to be taken by the entire family- Good Luck to young Robert and his family.
PS I really don't like the catching/pitching in the same game or DH. I really don't think that it is good for the team either, not to mention the possible overuse. It is like saying "There is no other person on our roster that can close this game for us".
I do understand that demonstrating his strength, concentration, and endurance is valuable with consideration to his draft status - I still think it's not good for the team. JMHO
I believe that the Stock family made the best possible decision for their son - it does not matter if we agree with it - it is already done and he is on is way.
Surely most of us can understand that at some point the rapid progression of one's talent comes to a bit of a plateau - a new learning curve if you will - once new mastery is obtained with a smart driven player - his progress may then pick up more momentum again, and this process probably (Hopefully) will continue throught his career - whatever that may be.
I do not know this family, but I do know that Thick Skin 101 is one of the first courses to be taken by the entire family- Good Luck to young Robert and his family.
PS I really don't like the catching/pitching in the same game or DH. I really don't think that it is good for the team either, not to mention the possible overuse. It is like saying "There is no other person on our roster that can close this game for us".
I do understand that demonstrating his strength, concentration, and endurance is valuable with consideration to his draft status - I still think it's not good for the team. JMHO
I am no expert but my take on this matter is that Robert's primary skill is his arm. 95. 95. 95. Man, you can't wish that away!
If his catching skills are (or become) plus and his bat stinks, there will still be that arm!
I'm guessing there are a lot of pro teams that are watching and waiting to see how his bat/catching skills line up. But in the meantime, there's always that 95 M.P.H. arm. You can't deny that. So if he's not catching in the pros, he will be closing.
If his catching skills are (or become) plus and his bat stinks, there will still be that arm!
I'm guessing there are a lot of pro teams that are watching and waiting to see how his bat/catching skills line up. But in the meantime, there's always that 95 M.P.H. arm. You can't deny that. So if he's not catching in the pros, he will be closing.
Yep, Bum you are so right 95 pretty much sets you apart! Good luck to RS!
quote:I do not know this family, but I do know that Thick Skin 101 is one of the first courses to be taken by the entire family- Good Luck to young Robert and his family.
iheartbb, I'll second that. Robert's dad used to post on this site fairly regularly (3 to 4 years ago) and I had some PM conversations with him. He seemed like a really nice, caring man with a nice family. Because of Robert's throwing velocity at a young age, they became accustomed to controversy and did indeed develop a thick skin. I think Robert was 14 when he first hit 90 mph, as some people of course proclaimed that his arm would fall off. But he has always thrown a lot, conditioned his body, and he and his dad were working hard back then at studying efficient throwing mechanics. It seems to be working out well in terms of his arm so far.
I appreciate that the somewhat dissenting opinions in this thread have been offered in a civil and respectful way!
And I wish Robert and his family the very best and hope to watch him on my TV screen some day.
Julie
I'll agree that Robert is not likely to top 6'1". I haven't seen him since last year but I don't think he's close to 6'3". I also tend to doubt he's got a big future as a pitcher just because the 95 is max effort, but he's a very smart kid and if he ends up going the pitching route he'll learn to make the best use of the tools he does have, which still aren't too shabby. I sure wouldn't mind if mine could hit 95 at max effort.
I'm not savvy enough to judge him as a hitter or catcher so I'll have to go on what others say. All in all, I'll play it safe and agree with PG's analysis.
I think Chad Kreuter being the coach played a big role in their decision and although people's assessment of his current catching abilities may be correct (remember, I'm not smart enough to judge that) I think people may be forgetting just how hard he's willing to work to get better and that is a key ingredient.
I'm not savvy enough to judge him as a hitter or catcher so I'll have to go on what others say. All in all, I'll play it safe and agree with PG's analysis.
I think Chad Kreuter being the coach played a big role in their decision and although people's assessment of his current catching abilities may be correct (remember, I'm not smart enough to judge that) I think people may be forgetting just how hard he's willing to work to get better and that is a key ingredient.
quote:PS I really don't like the catching/pitching in the same game or DH. I really don't think that it is good for the team either, not to mention the possible overuse. It is like saying "There is no other person on our roster that can close this game for us".
Perhaps Stock said his arm felt great and asked for the ball from the coach? I am generally not inclined to have a kid do both in the same game but if the kids asks for the ball and you think its a situation where he can suceed and build some confidence, would you say no?
btw, I don't think Chad Krueter (the coach) is the kind of guy that would sacrifice a young kid's arm.