The role of the advisor

Thanks for the info TPM.

Something I have been wondering about is how do you check an "advisor" out if you are approached by one. Could someone point me in the right direction?

The big question I've always wondered is, how far can you go in getting "advice" or representation, without making yourself ineligible for college play? Where is the line drawn? I think the big fear would be inadvertently making a mistake that ruins your amateur status and forces you into a pro career that you may not want right now -- plus having the feeling that you've lost negotiating leverage and thus, left some money on the table on top of everything else.

I have read all the NCAA web site stuff and it's about as clear as mud, and to my reading, often downright contradictory from one web page to the next.

Since the college recruiting/signing process would normally be finished at least a few months before the pro draft, can you rely on your college coach for guidance on how far you can go, and where you have to stop? Are college coaches good at this, or is that too much to ask of them? It occurs to me they may be just too engrossed in their own seasons at that time of year to really focus on the situation for each of maybe several recruits.

HowUBe ...
The first thing I would do is check with your son's coach (either high school, travel/elite/whatever, or college) as he may well be aware of the agents and the agents' reputations. In our son's case, when he was in college, his advisor/now agent was pretty easy to check because he represented a big name draftee out of son's high school. We contacted the player and his parents to see what they thought, as well as the pro scout who had referred the player to that advisor. (We knew him because he had been our son's high school pitching coach at one time.)

And since conversation with the advisor/agent is free and non-commital, I would be sure to find out what other players he (or she?) has represented. Many of the advisors have a portfolio of sorts which identifies the players they have represented. Our son's advisor/agent had one of those and it was good not just to see where the player was drafted etc but where the player was at the time the advisor was speaking with our son. (IMHO it doesn't speak particularly well of the advisor's ability to judge talent if none of his clients are still playing ball )

Those would be the two areas I would look at first ... IMHO

Midlo Dad ...
Ref approaching the future college coach for advice ... I think that would be a conflict of interest for most of them. In the case of the player I mentioned above who was a high draft pick, his future college coach actually referred an advisor to the player ... which the player, his parents, and his high school coach thought was very strange indeed. The college coach may have a good idea of the player's potential come draft day, but he might not be inclined to recommend one of his incoming players to sign a pro contract out of high school.

Our son's advisor was recommended by his college coach. He knew we had lots of questions and concerns and knew he would give good advice, regardless of his relationship with the coaches. Some schools have relationships with advisors.

If your son may be a potential pick, nothing wrong with having a discussion with the coach who signed him.

MidloDad,
Player can get all the "free" advice he wants. As long as there is no written agreement for representation, player can speak to whoever he wants. And any negotiations are allowed through anyone who is not a registered or license agent (eg, you can negotiate your son's bonus). The contract is a basic minor league contract, which you can familiarize yourself with before the draft. Some players do not even pick up an agent until after they have been drafted and ready to sign.
There are lots of questions that go along with the process and if player and parent are a bit overwhelmed, then seek advice.

That you all for your replies. FBM sounds like some good advice, thanks.

TPM

quote:

And any negotiations are allowed through anyone who is not a registered or license agent

I just wanted to see if I understood this statement correctly. Are you saying an "advisor" who may also be a licensed agent can NOT negotiate signing bonuses for high school players without loss of NCAA eligibility?

Thanks in advance.

HowUBe...
When selecting an advisor/agent I would start with interviews and then check their references. We called other parents and players that they had represented. I also called the MLB offices and made sure they were registered and did Google searches to find articles, etc.

Midlo...
The most important thing to remember is to never sign anything with an advisor or accept any gifts, meals, money, equipment, etc. from them before you've signed a pro contract. If any advisor suggests that this is OK, stop all contact with them immediately. These activities are clearly against NCAA eligibility standards.

In our experience, the size of the company or the way they charged for their services was secondary to several factors....

1. Relationship with their players. Your son needs to feel that his advisor/agent and firm will always represent his best interest.

2. Experience and education. Do they have good contacts and relationships with GMs? Have they successfully negotiated major league contracts? Do they have major league clients? Even though it may seem like the majors is a long way off, experience in this area is important.

3. Intergrity. Actually, this was probably #1 for our son. Do you feel your advisor and his firm adhere to some set of ethical standards? What do they consider unethical?

I think an interesting question might be: with the signing bonus money pretty much slotted now, is it necessary to even have an agent before you make the Bigs. Maybe yes for a first rounder to get some of the "extras" they may have coming. But after round one I'm not so sure. I bring this up because of the story of a past second rounder I've been told about.

Drafted in the second round after junior year of college. Was put in touch with a former major league player that is now a financial planner/advisor. This advisor took no money for his advise on bonus amount/when to sign etc. Actually player signed quickly against the advise for possibly less than he could have gotten, because he didn't want to wait, he wanted to get started and play ball. Yes, the player did use the advisor to put a financial plan together after signing, and thats where the advisor made his money. The player is now in the bigs, and has an agent. But he didn't hire an agent until he made it to the Major Leagues.

In advance, sorry, but I can't give everyone the advisor's name. He's very selective on who he takes on, plus in all honesty, I don't know him personally.

I just wanted to say one more thing.

It is really nice of all of you to take the time to answer these kinds of questions for those of us who are struggling to learn and learn quickly.

Hopefully, the day will come when I will be able to help someone from my pass experiences.

Thank you all very much.

CentralIl ...

quote:

is it necessary to even have an agent before you make the Bigs ...

There are as many opinions as belly buttons these days but what our son (who ended up being a 9th rounder) discovered was how helpful his advisor/agent was during several critical times. Initially we had concerns as our son developed a minor muscle strain that put him off the field for the last 4 weeks of his junior season. His advisor was very helpful in supporting him emotionally at this time, offering options should the draft not go the way he had hoped, etc. And since he has signed, his agent and the agency have been very helpful in negotiating a card deal, a glove deal, and getting much of his gear (glove, cleats, running shoes, Under Armour) which really helps defer many of the costs he would otherwise incur on his pittance of a minor league salary

Hope you don't mind all my responses but since our son was not a top 3 rounder, I think it helps ... FWIW ... put a different perspective on the whole issue of advisor/agent from someone who went in a later round but benefited immensely from having an advisor.

HowUbe,
Let me answer this as best I can.

quote:

I just wanted to see if I understood this statement correctly. Are you saying an "advisor" who may also be a licensed agent can NOT negotiate signing bonuses for high school players without loss of NCAA eligibility?

While this is a violation of NCAA rules, the "loss of NCAA eligibility" sounds a bit harsh. I can site an instance where a high profile pitcher was in the negotiation stages prior to his attending Vanderbilt University. The newspaper quoted a source stating his agent was negotiating for the player and the NCAA "punished" the player by not allowing him to play in the first 6 games of that season.
I felt as if the NCAA was forced to punish the player because of the newspaper article. I think most people close to the game feel as if agents and advisors talk to MLB but I personally don’t know if they do or not. I checked out all agents and advisors my son dealt with but I never asked them if they talked with professional baseball general managers or coaches. I feel as if it was my responsibility to advise my son what to do and what not to do to stay NCAA eligible ---- I never felt it was my responsibility or my ability to control what an agent says or who he says it to. I would assume that my son's advisor was in communications with MLB since he had a number of high profile players in the big leagues as clients.

My son has an agent (and has since high school) and to me his agent is his link to the reality side of professional baseball. His agent talks to him frequently and provides him with much the same materialist thing as FBM speaks of. Being a catcher he needed catching equipment right away and within a week of signing his contract he had an equipment contract that provided him with 3 full sets per year. Batting gloves, bats, shoes, and under armor is all provided by the agent and his connections. Having an agent does cost money but it’s a pittance compared to what this old man has paid to get him to where he is today...
Fungo

CentralIL...

Our son's agents have done so much for him that I honestly believe he wouldn't be where he is today without them.

Their experience, wisdom, contacts, and general knowledge of the baseball world has been invaluable. The 3% of his 3rd round bonus he paid for their services was the best investment he ever made.

Since his MLB debut last Sept. he has been approached by the top agents in the country, but his loyalty remains with the guys who have been working hard for him since the beginning.

PS. Having an agent that's also your financial planner could be a "conflict of interest" at times.

HowUbe,
I think fungo did a great job of answering your question.
That is why it is important to discuss the possibilities before draft day. If a player gets a call on draft day and they say they will draft you for so and so amount, you should be prepared to answer yes or no. If yes is the answer, and one decides to sign and give up eligiblity, the advisor now becomes the agent (upon agreement)and he can negotiate things that are left out (school, extra money for that round, etc.). He cannot by NCAA regulations, talk to a team on the players behalf before that time, but it happens frequently. Rest assured if your son is expected to be the first in the next draft, deals are already being made. Likewise if a player signs with an agent before his signing, he has lost eligiblity for good. Important to make your player understand the implications of signing with an agent before negotiations, because if things don't work out, there is no school for the player. That is why it is important to trust the person you take on as an advisor.
I agree with FBM and Fungo, advisors and agents become a necessity at some point, and can be a vital link between player and club and help out in supplying necessary equipment, deals, that would otherwise cost the player.

Another two cents worth. My son was throwing in the 90s in front of some cows (in East Texas) and some parents. A former major league player (pitcher) who thought we already had an advisor saw him throw on one of his worst days and told me how special he was.

After he gave me repeated advise, I asked him if he would be our advisor. He already thought we had one. He was helping us not even thinking we would use his services.

My son has now thrown in front of more than 1/2 of the major league teams. He may not get drafted but his advisor was key to getting him looked at. His next start has at least two cross-checkers coming to see him, all because of the advisor contacts.

My son would not be a real high pick, but could be a first day pick. There is not much money in it for the advisor if my son signs. The only reason he would accept my son is the possiblity that he is good enough to play in the major leagues someday. Therefore, he would not have taken on my son except he believes in his ability. The 4% of a signing bonus fee would not give him minimum wage for the time he is taking with us. I know for a fact he has turned down many players he doesn't feel will be very good because it is a waste of everyone's time.

He also has told both of us to enjoy his last year in high school and lets just see how the draft goes. He is neutral about my son going to college or straight to pro ball. It just depends upon draft position and what my sons wants. He has told us to take the pressure off.

Good luck finding someone like him.

i have heard so many opinions on this over the years and it is different for every one.some say if your a first rounder you should have one.if your a 12 th rounder you don't need one.in my opinion the advisor promotes the boy in way's we as parents can't.he can answer questions we can't always get answers to.if he is a good advisor and proud of his work you will have the names and phone numbers of the guys he represents.call them they are his best salesmen.in my opinion it's like buying a big screen tv or a refrigerater,or any other big ticket item.can we live with out it?will it help us? if your on ba's national list maybe you don't need one.if you not on their list maybe the promotion an advisor gives is worth while?and lets face it around 1400 kids are drafted and the list is 300.that's something to ponder.not to mention the equipment later on.whatever it is you decide do your homework.and isn't it wonderful to even think you need an advisor good luck to your son's in the draft.

Baseballpapa,

Your son being a solid JUCO signee will help. Navarro is one of the top programs in the country and a great place to follow prospect if not signed. He will/would get much attention there but my wish for him is> let's go ahead and offer him enough to pay for college with money to boot for other necessities and draft him high enough to sign him now

Sounds like you have a very strong advisor with many contacts and good luck with cross-ckers in next couple of days and upcoming draft.

peace, Shep

Agents make very little money from signing bonus. It is their intent to go with someone who will possibly someday head to the Major Leagues, that is where they will make their money.
As mentioned once before, the true intent of your advisor can be found in the arrangement he makes with the player. If the signing bonus is standard for the round being offered to your son, I don't necessarily feel he is entitled to a percentage of that, but entitled to a percentage for whatever extra he can negotiate for the player. I think that is why many feel that an advisor/agent is not really needed for the later rounds, or until after one signs.
JMO.

This is getting interesting and in my opinion a little muddied too. The LAST person I would “hire” or retain to PROMOTE my high school aged son would be an agent/advisor. That is not the role of the agent/advisor and is about as backwards as things can get. Why so? First off the agent/advisor only gets paid if the player signs a professional contract so while he may suggest the best route for your son is college, in my opinion he would only say that if he feels that is imminent anyway hoping the player uses him when he does go pro. The college vs. pro choice should be made by the parents and the player and not the professional agent nor the college coach. Both have something personal to lose/gain by that decision. If an agent advises a player or his parents on pro vs. college, and most will, in my opinion he’s out of his sand box. Understand it is in the agent’s best interest for your son to go pro but he’s prohibited by the NCAA from promoting him as a pro player. On the other hand the agent CAN promote him to college coaches, but that would be counter productive to his livelihood. My son’s advisor lost money when my son made the decision to go to college and never got the chance to represent him when he did turn pro.
Remember this. There are many different groups of people that are searching for and finding the talented (and sometimes not so talented) high school ballplayer and they all see these player as being able to help them in one way or another: Professional baseball, collegiate baseball, Showcase promoters, training facilities, financial advisors, summer teams, and agents (advisors). I think it is the role of the parent to understand the intent of each group and where your son fits into THEIR scheme. All of these groups can help some players and all these groups can hurt some players. Understanding their roles and understanding your son’s talent is not that difficult and can make the transitions to the next level(s) much easier.
Fungo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TPM, good points and does make one think. I agree you could save your entire signing bonus on the front end --- but have some difficulties getting an agent that will work his tail off for you --- I don't know. Most agents have more clients in MILB than in MLB. ---and---- there are probably more agents than there are MLB players so there has to be many that make their money off of minor league players' signing bonuses. On the subject of giving the agent a portion of that money over slot money: Signing bonuses for the most part are governed by the slot and you won't find a great variation in that slot and when you do, I doubt that it is the result of the agent negotiation a higher signing bonus but one of extenuating circumstances based on round and actual worth of that player. For instance; we've all seen the projected first rounder fall to a lower round because of signability issues and subsequently garner a higher bonus if he does sign.

In the words of the great football coach Lou Holtz --- "there ain't no free lunch"!
Fungo

Fungo,
Good post.
There are agents (believe it or not) who will take only a percentage of above and beyond the signing bonus and some who will not take anything (believe it or not).
You are correct that there are more agents for MILB than MLB, simply because most of the big guys don't take players unless they feel they will one day be MLB or bring more money for them. I also agree that an advisors role should not be to promote a player for the draft. This causes a conflict of interest. He should be unbiased in telling the player what road to take, and only there to answer questions and to educate. If my son had a great college opportunity and some advisor told him that he was going to do his best to get him seen and drafted in a high round, he is not doing his job as an ADVISOR, but as an agent. Of course scenerios may be different if the player is in college, but I am trying to focus on the need for advisor out of HS.
Here is how I see why an advisor would be helpful for the HS player.
Player B is drafted in round five first pick and offered 225K (example). HS with good scholarship offer. The year before that pick brought 250. If one doesn't realize the circumstances, might sign asap and be on his way when technically he was given less slot money.
Player A is drafted round 4, high offered 325 HS player with great scholarship offer at top D1 school. The year before a college player got same pick, out of JUCO and was given 345 Would the player know whether he was given fair money? But Player A has an advisor and that advisor suggests that more money should be given to him, helps ADVISE him through the process on how to approach and resolve the difference.
Confusing, you bet, unless you know exactly what was given the year before and the circumstances, player could walk away with less (which is the clubs original intent). The player signs for more and the advisor should be entitled to his percentage of what he helped advise for more. Advisor becomes players agent.
I suggest the book License to Deal, where you will read about deals between advisor and teams going on all the time before the draft, a dangerous situation if you do not end up going pro.

I know it doesn't always work like that, they were examples. The advisors role is to make sure that his potential player has gotten fair market value, not a potential club to draft him.
Some people say stay away from certain agents as clubs won't draft them because they don't want to deal with who represents them later on. I don't agree, teams don't like dealing with Boras, but his potential clients do get drafted.

To some the difference in money may not matter, however, if one has to depend upon that amount for 4-5 years every bit may help. For some the 20K difference may mean going to school or not.

Hope have not confused too many folks, but this is essentially what it comes down to in the end.

I'm not neccessarily disagreeing with anyone, but IMHO money should never be the bottom line when choosing an advisor/agent...or really in any decision. Too many prospects have ruined their opportunities and even their pro careers by focusing on the money.

When you pull money out of the equation, its easier to make decisions that best support your chances of success on and off the baseball field. If that's done well, the money will follow.

fungo
i assume your talk of promoting came from my post.our son is in jc.the options to be seen are not as good.small school in the northeast doesn't get much attention.an advisor can help in getting the word out so to speak.maybe promote was the wrong word.i agree that you don't hire an advisor for promotion. my mistake.