The Roller Coaster

I know what you are trying to say about it being a roller coaster ride with highs and lows but I don't think I would call a 2012 with offers from Arizona State and Arizona a D1 wash out.... if those are your worst offers then I would still be pretty happy. Plus, it is still May, there is the entire summer to get exposure, you still have plenty of time.

Congrats on the nice outing, sounds like the baseball gods and radar guns were on your son's side today!

Thanks for the kind words. I wasn't there so I didn't actually see it, although I talked to two of the three guys holding the guns.

The problem with being a prospect in the Phoenix area is there simply aren't a lot of options. ASU, Arizona or go out of state. There are tons of schools in California, but none of them want Arizona kids due to the out of state tuition. Thus, we have Utah (no interest) or New Mexico (no interest) or go to a D-2 / D-3 or CC.

Son has a 4.3 GPA, so going to a CC seems like a waste.

Son has decided he likes his girlfriend (don't get me started on this issue) and wants to stay at home, thus the choices are limited and there are no other prospects in the hopper.

It's just a struggle with deciding what to do...

I'm an engineer by trade and when all the variables keep changing at the same time, I simply don't like it (and can't deal with it).

I am having trouble understanding the problems...

Lets start with the girlfriends. What if your son was unattractive and girls wanted nothing to do with him, how would you feel about that?

He's got offers from two PAC-10 schools and a Big-12 school and potentially an ACC school and the problem is what? How hard does Mike Leak throw the ball btw?

Honestly, I am waiting for the thread where someone has 299 D1 offers and they come on here to lament because Alcorn State did not make an offer.

CD thanks for making me spit my Diet Mountain Dew all over my keyboard. Your the man!!!!!!!

JMOff,

I'm guessing by the peanut galleries's responses that you're not going to get much sympathy when you rattle off some name brand D1 powerhouse schools, so let's just put that to the side....let's put the girlfriend and advisor on the backburner too.

If I understand the problem correctly it is more of a WHERE than a who, what, when or why. If the where is fixed on AZ, yes your choices will be limited. We faced similiar WHERE choices just like many have here as well. My son was adamant about engineering & D1 baseball in Virignia, but very quickly realized he wasn't going to play baseball for Univ of Virginia or Virginia Tech. So we changed the "where" to the East coast, and voila.....things opened up quite a bit. I find it very hard to believe that if your lefty son is throwing over 90 that more schools will not reach out to him.....or he can reach out to them as he has a whole year. Just a guess here.....but if I'm a D1 coach and someone calls me with a 90mph lefty...I'm taking that call or replying to that email at the very least.

The sky is not falling.....it is actually opening up and he needs to take advantage of it right now while the stalkers are still warm. I think you are feeling the effects of parental pressure because it is not entirely in your control, and recruiting is not a familiar process. Step back.....sit down with your son.....discuss goals.....execute the plan. Best of luck. Life is good.

My son had one "maybe" offer going into his senior summer, I guess we must have been doing things all wrong.

I can't beleive that you consider your son a D1 washout. I'll bet there are lots of folks here who wish they had that problem.

Who is having the roller coaster ride, mom and dad or player? If your son wants to stay close to home, what is the problem?

Understanding parents and the "problems" they think that they face these days in the recruiting process is just mind boggling, IMO.

This may not be something for your son, but would like to bring it up anyway. Back in 2000 or 2001, the father of a high schooler in Arizona contacted my brother, coach of a D1 here in Illinois, about his son who wasn't really getting much attention from the local D1's. Son ended up here in Central Illinois, had a successful college career and has ended up having some success in THE SHOW. You can look it up ... Jeremy Accardo. Just saying there are options here in the north. The current coach here at ISU is exceptional and with the new stadium construction(granted not the large palaces that exist in the southern regions of D1), special things have and will continue to happen here. Pretty good education too.

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Try a walk on the wild side...

Contact: Arizona Christian (NAIA), Grand Canyon UNiversity (DII), UNLV, New Mexico State, New Mexico Highlands, Dixie State, UNM, University of the Southwest(NM)...or any other school in the southwest...CA included...

Tell them you have a lefty, throws 92, with a 4.3 GPA (academic $), with offers to ASU, U of A, Nebraska, and has draft advisors after him....

And see what happens...


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quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
CD thanks for making me spit my Diet Mountain Dew all over my keyboard. Your the man!!!!!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
...the peanut galler[y]....

ClevelandDad
Coach_May
TPM

Gee, I wish I was half that nuts!!!

quote:

Does this happen to everyone or is God just punishing me for something I did in my youth?

No it does not........most never even sniff this amount of attention....

God isnt punishing you.......turn your thoughts to how fortunate you and your son are.....

My 2012 Lefty son is working his Butt off to throw low 80's, maintain his B average and is hoping the small D3's he is interested in will give him a chance to play.

So no I do not believe God is punishing you, or me for that matter. We are both blessed with healthy happy talented sons. With the number of kids that have drug problems, criminal issues and teenage depression, these types of problems I will very happily accept.

Just my unsolicited 2 cents

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"How do you go from a D-1 washout to "draftable" in a few hours?"

"I'm an engineer by trade and when all the variables keep changing at the same time, I simply don't like it (and can't deal with it)."

When you're faced with controls like these I would imagine that you could go from washout to "draftable" rather quickly, but thast's just a guess. The large number of variables available will be particularly troublesome to you. But somehow or other it all comes out in the wash.



Perhaps this old standby would be more to your liking?






I wish continued success to your son!

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Thanks for the responses...

Sometimes I honestly wish he wasn't a baseball player and would go get an engineering degree and earn an honest living like the rest of us.

The offers he has are pretty soft (25% baseball, lots of academic money and verbal only, which is by rule I understand). It's not like they're telling him he's actually going to play when he gets there. Brand name schools for sure, but schools that bring in 17-20 pitchers every fall and keep 12. Arizona only used about 8 guys this spring with any regularity. ASU used a few more. Getting an invitation to show up is far from a sure thing.

We go from, "he's not good enough" to "he's really good" in the same day. I'm trying to advise him to go to the right place with the right balance, to get the right education while having a chance to play baseball.

I don't mean to offend anyone and I guess this is a "good" set of problems to have, but sometimes I wish he was a D-3 kid who could get some help with tuition, graduate with a degree in something employable and live happily ever after.

What I don't want is for him to get big eyes, go to the big school filled with delusions of grandure and end up holding the radar gun for the real pitchers his freshman year and asked to leave after that. About the time I have him talked out of tyring the big school, he does something (like throwing 92 out of the blue) that makes us rethink everything.

I've been trying like heck to get him to look outside Arizona at other schools and he just doesn't seem to want to do it. He wants to stay home. I LOVED Nebraska when we visited there. I think that would've been a great place to go. All he saw was the snow still on the ground a week from their first game.

IMHO the baseball thing is a huge distraction, the allure of an easy lifestyle never having to work a day in his life versus the reality that 99.8% of kids like him never get paid more than $2k/mo to play and end up done playing at 28 with a wife, two kids and no degree. These guys discover that all their credits expired and they have to start over as a freshman. They can't support the family as a full time student, so they never go back... And these are the guys who actually got to play in college...

Sorry if I offended anyone and maybe I'm being a baby. My college selection process didn't involve sports and neither did my wife's. Son is my oldest, so all this is very new with lots of people offering lots of conflicting advice. Son's performances are erratic, so he's very good then not so good. Lots of ups and downs. Making choices is difficult.

The short term plan will be to not make a choice as long as possible. Hopefully the choice will be more obvious in a few months. Maybe another school comes into the mix or he demonstrates he IS good enough with some consistancy.

Academic scholarships are more valuable than (one year) baseball scholarships. If he gets lots of academic money and keeps his grades up, both you and your son should be happy. He will get an opportunity to play at a very top program and if that don't work out well, he can transfer. Or he stays and his academic money should help satisfy your goals for him.

Seems like a good situation to be in.

quote:

I don't mean to offend anyone and I guess this is a "good" set of problems to have, but sometimes I wish he was a D-3 kid who could get some help with tuition, graduate with a degree in something employable and live happily ever after.

How do you know he's not "just" a D3 player that can get some academic money? Seems like it's D1 or bust. I know of some very good players "only" playing D3 ball.

quote:

What I don't want is for him to get big eyes, go to the big school filled with delusions of grandure and end up holding the radar gun for the real pitchers his freshman year and asked to leave after that. About the time I have him talked out of tyring the big school, he does something (like throwing 92 out of the blue) that makes us rethink everything.

How do you know the radar guns are accurate? Maybe it's a few miles off. Even if he did touch 90 once, did he do it with all he's got and not really able to throw that pitch after pitch. Perhaps he is what he is: a consistent low-mid 80s thrower that can reach back and touch upper 80s and maybe 90 assuming guns are accurate. Certainly, there are schools that would go with those numbers.

quote:

IMHO the baseball thing is a huge distraction, the allure of an easy lifestyle never having to work a day in his life versus the reality that 99.8% of kids like him never get paid more than $2k/mo to play and end up done playing at 28 with a wife, two kids and no degree. These guys discover that all their credits expired and they have to start over as a freshman. They can't support the family as a full time student, so they never go back... And these are the guys who actually got to play in college...

This is reason #1 why my son chose education over baseball. He took an honest appraisal of himself by his senior year and based on the work he would've needed to do to keep up to play baseball and where he was, he knew where his future was. Now he wasn't a pro prospect by any stretch but had the tools to work with to potentially have himself a decent college career playing ball. He was a very solid HS player who was a varsity starter. He had opportunities to go the baseball route but he chose to focus on education. Now maybe your player has more potential and interest and all but at the end of the day, the decision was all his and he's the one who had to go thru it. I would've loved him to play college ball but I knew he would've had to want to so I didn't lament or go woe is me. I left it up to him and I was there to help along the way. In the end, it all worked out.

By putting this woe is me stuff on yourself or calling hima D1 washout, it sounds a bit like you may be too caught up in it and need to take a step back and see what he wants and let him make a decision for himself regarding baseball, college and yes, the girlfriend. As a parent, you need to back him up and help him with options but they need to be realistic as well as him but most important, he has to think and decide for himself what he wants to do, now what somebody else pushes him to do.

If he's that good and is willing to put the outside distractions aside, he will find a place to play with a good fit.

And yes, grades and SAT's are important. Without them, they close doors academically so that's where it starts.

Jmoff,

I saw JmoffJr pitched against RR23Jr's team during the last workout and from what I saw without knowing the gun readings that he is not a Washout! In fact he is still the ACE. I remember he struck out 2 guys. He even got a hit off a change-up low in his knees from RR23Jr.

I also noticed another 2012 LHP in your team who was throwing some heat too but not sure who he is and how ahrd was he throwing.

Sure would love RR23JR to play with him in PG WWBA 17U East Cobb Georgia if the opportunity arise. There would be a lot of exposure in the next few mos and I agree with the consensus that you probably should expand the horizons a little and as PG staff said to just keep grades up. Maybe even consider Ivies.

Everything should be fine my friend. With the 2-3 offers he has gotten as a LHP, he is far ahead with most of his 2012 peers. THe only question is finding the right fit with a great balance between academic and athletic success that would make him enjoy his 4 years.

Zombywoof,

When did your son decide to focus on education alone?

RR23

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanrod23:
Zombywoof,

When did your son decide to focus on education alone?

RR23

After his junior year. He figured if he went to community college, he could play but I suppose once he got interested into going into a 4 year college instead and decided what he wanted to do, baseball took a back seat. I did the legwork on my end for both academics and baseball in case he changed his mind senior year. Plus, he had a recommendation from a former D1 player who played for the coach of the school he currently attends to give him a look if somewhere along the way he got the drive to do it. This individual in no way would have done this for him if he didn't think he could play. Although I saw this as highly unlikely since he should've been actively doing stuff after his junior year, the door was still open nonetheless.

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Good advice woof!



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A suggestion for some of you - please refer to your son as your son and not screenameJR. If you want to break up the reptetiveness of saying my son that or my son this or your son that or your son this, you can break it up using pronouns like he, you, they, or them. The third person JR stuff is annoying and very difficult to read.

Jmoff - I still don't think you are grasping some things about college baseball. You don't just go to Boyd's World and look at the RPI rankings and decide where your son's MPH might fit. It is much more complicated than that. You can't just say, oh well ASU is in the top 10 and Nebraska is in the top 50 and say that it would be five times easier to pitch at Nebraska. The differences in these programs is minute. If you are worried the baseball might not be a fit at a place like ASU then it ought to also be a concern at a place like Nebraska or Duke frankly.

We have a prominent member whose son attends Duke. He was an outstanding high school player. Went to Duke with the best of intentions and like 99% of freshmen, struggled to get his name in the lineup. After much soul-seraching, hard-work, and perseverance, he starred at Duke this past year. That is basically how it works at the D1 level and especially at the levels you are talking about. It will take all your son's powers and more importantly heart and yes luck to ever get on the field at the next level. Every kid was talented like yours in high school and many of them are now three years older and way, way stronger.

A 25% offer is a good one at the levels you are talking about. I am still having a hard time with your problem. You should be counting your blessings imho. One other thing, I would never post offer details in a public forum. That can come back to haunt you in a number of ways.

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"...JR stuff is annoying..."

I guess I'm goin' to hafta' take a trip up Cleveland way and talk some sense into one dad in particular.




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quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

The offers he has are pretty soft (25% baseball, lots of academic money and verbal only, which is by rule I understand). It's not like they're telling him he's actually going to play when he gets there. Brand name schools for sure, but schools that bring in 17-20 pitchers every fall and keep 12. Arizona only used about 8 guys this spring with any regularity. ASU used a few more. Getting an invitation to show up is far from a sure thing.

25% + lots of academic money = a good deal
(sounds like a large piece of the puzzle is still being funded by the institution)

The "compete for a position" scenario you mentioned is true at any school, the biggest or the smallest, no matter where he lands he will need to pitch well to compete for a position.

Thank you all for the advice, I do appreciate it.

To answer a few of the points raised:

What I liked about Nebraska were the facilities and support system in place to help the student athelete. The football program provides a whole bunch of money. It seemed to be a better fit from a "success oriented" standpoint. A family atmosphere. I was sadened to see the coaching staff removed. They were good people.

Who knows if the radar guns are accurate. There were three of them, all stalkers and they agreed. But who knows...

He thinks of himself as D-1. I think of him as my son. I went to a D-3 engineering school that has a good baseball program (Renesselaer). I didn't play, but got a good education. It's been difficult getting him to think outside of the D-1 mode and open up the apature and consider other opportunites. He was too many people whispering in his ear about how good he is.

Maybe I don't have a problem, but it's eating me up.

I will step back and appraise. That was good advice...

quote:

IMHO the baseball thing is a huge distraction, the allure of an easy lifestyle never having to work a day in his life

Probably need to do some research in that area too.......

Here's a link for you to start.

Going Pro

You've only been on the Mini Mine train at the theme park.

The coasters are bigger at the college park..............

I definitely recommend going to the college theme park first.

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"Maybe I don't have a problem, but it's eating me up."

They're irresistable, effective, and chewable too! But remember...it's difficult to understand what you're hollerin' about when you have your mouth full of 'em!






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I suggest you take FO's advice and get ready to deal with the pro v. college v. three years of college questions. An LHP with stalker numbers beginning with a 9 will need to deal with those options. Pro baseball is a cruel mistress. Get ready to get twisted.

There is a kid that went from D1 LHP (mid major project) to the big leagues in three years. Chris Sale is the extreme exception though. He was mid 80's in high school.

A friend played at RPI in the 90's. He got a very nice and expensive business degree.

Questions or Announcements Thread

This may give you an idea of where CD is coming from.

This topic confuses me more than just about any other I've read in a long time.

There is no "roller coaster" here...not...yet.

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Read all about it!



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Agreed, justbaseball, but JMoff, has been in the theme park for awhile and just got into the next long line...........

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanrod23:
Jmoff,

I saw JmoffJr pitched against RR23Jr's team during the last workout and from what I saw without knowing the gun readings that he is not a Washout! In fact he is still the ACE. I remember he struck out 2 guys. He even got a hit off a change-up low in his knees from RR23Jr.

I also noticed another 2012 LHP in your team who was throwing some heat too but not sure who he is and how ahrd was he throwing.

Sure would love RR23JR to play with him in PG WWBA 17U East Cobb Georgia if the opportunity arise. There would be a lot of exposure in the next few mos and I agree with the consensus that you probably should expand the horizons a little and as PG staff said to just keep grades up. Maybe even consider Ivies.

Everything should be fine my friend. With the 2-3 offers he has gotten as a LHP, he is far ahead with most of his 2012 peers. THe only question is finding the right fit with a great balance between academic and athletic success that would make him enjoy his 4 years.

CD,

How does this sound? I understand where you are coming from with the most recent link.


I saw your son pitched against my son's team during the last workout and from what I saw without knowing the gun readings that he is not a Washout! In fact he is still the ACE. I remember he struck out 2 guys. He even got a hit off a change-up low in his knees from my son.

I also noticed another 2012 LHP in your team who was throwing some heat too but not sure who he is and how hard was he throwing.

Sure would love my son to play with him in PG WWBA 17U East Cobb Georgia if the opportunity arise. There would be a lot of exposure in the next few mos and I agree with the consensus that you probably should expand the horizons a little and as PG staff said to just keep grades up. Maybe even consider Ivies.

Everything should be fine my friend. With the 2-3 offers he has gotten as a LHP, he is far ahead with most of his 2012 peers. THe only question is finding the right fit with a great balance between academic and athletic success that would make him enjoy his 4 years.

Gotwood4sale,

That's probably about it. I'm not cut out for the big coaster...

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
An LHP with stalker numbers beginning with a 9 will need to deal with those options. Pro baseball is a cruel mistress. Get ready to get twisted.

I added the emphasis.

JMoff, since most of those who frequent this site would do most anything baseball wise to be in your son's position, I am like justbb and FO. I cannot figure this one out. I won't even try.
There are too many aspects that are foreign to me as the parent of a former player who would have done anything to be in your son's situation, wasn't, and went DIII and made a nice "dent" in his world of baseball.
Looking at what you posted in your first comments, you talked about an adviser.
Then you said the adviser feels your son has only about a 50% chance of pitching in the Pac 10.
Those two comments have my head spinning.
Advisers are usually involved to provide guidance to MLB prospects and families about the draft.
If this is what you mean by an "adviser," to have an adviser for the MLB draft saying a 50% chance of pitching in the Pac10 seems completely off the wall and oxymoronic... to me at least.
If it is true that your son has only a 50% chance of pitching in the Pac10, he isn't likely the type of draft pick who requires an adviser for the draft. He just isn't.
If he truly is one to benefit from an adviser for the MLB draft, then he has the ability to pitch in the Pac10 and at the schools who offered him.
Are you relying on this adviser? Are you sure this adviser isn't trying to head your son and you to the draft and away from college?
This adviser won't get paid for 5 more years, if at all, if your son goes to college.
This darn baseball stuff just gets more confusing to me.
Why would an adviser take on a lefty pitcher with Pac 10 offers and provide an opinion undermining or doubting your son's ability to pitch in the Pac10?

Jmoff,
I assume you just had to brag but were trying to do it in a humorous way.

I think the attempt at humor rubbed a few people the wrong way kind of like "Let them eat cake." did a few years back.

Next time just be proud of your son's accomplishments and hopeful of what he may achieve. Nobody will mind that. It sounds like he's doing great and I hope the velocity increase sticks.

Gotwood,
That JR guy worked for an old neighbor of mine, who has moved to a somewhat pricier neighborhood since then. Another one of us who didn't make it in baseball and muddled by in another career.

jmoff,

I read your post last night and I was confused...so I immediately read it again. I wasn't sure how I'd respond? These two paragraphs in your post made me scratch my head:

"This morning we're facing the reality that our 2012 LHP, who sits 83-87 depending on the day only has offers from Arizona St. and Arizona after the Nebraska coaching change. Duke hasn't offered, but seems eager if Jr. can throw up a few extra points on his SAT this weekend."

"Our advisor suggests he's got a 50/50 chance of ever actually pitching in the PAC-10 and I agree from what I've seen. He has no other options currently available. As I'm contemplating D-2, D-3 and secondary options, son goes out to throw an inning for his pro-scout team."

Your son "Only" has offers from ASU (A college baseball powerhouse, great facilities), Arizona (A strong Pac 10 school...also great facilities), and Nebraska apparently had interest prior to their recent coaching change (again...exceptional facilities)? The majority of 2012 kids out there haven't received any concrete offers yet, but he has received two from very good PAC 10/12 Universities. Duke sounds like a great opportunity as well, encourage him to work his rear off to increase his score on the SAT this weekend!

Your son is just beginning his summer and if he's touching the low 90's as a lefty, his ceiling will only continue to rise. The D1 college coaching fraternity is small, the word will spread like wild-fire regarding his left arm, so congratulations are in order. And as others have suggested, you may have to entertain the Pro vs. College dilemma by this time next year!?

You have an "Advisor"? If so, you had already realized that your son has game, so "The Roller Coaster" reference may be pushing it a little? The majority of 2012's are waiting for the magic JULY 1ST PHONE CALLS. My definition of a ROLLER COASTER ride is when your son talks to several coaches on 7/1 and beyond...and they all offered him the same lines, probably because they liked what they saw, however they wanted to see if something better would come along? Part of our problem was that my son wanted to stay here on the west coast, so that substantially narrowed his choices down.

Well jmoff, to make a long story short...my 2011 son spoke to plenty of coaches during the summer/fall last year. Everyone of them said all the right things (that's their job), but he didn't verbally commit until after the Senior Fall Classic in October, and signed in November with a very good program. That was definitely a Roller Coaster Ride with plenty of flips and turns ...sounds to me like your son's roller coaster is still ascending upwards and most likely won't be as Scary ? Enjoy the ride over the next couple of months, and let us know where he decides to attend...and again, Congratulations!

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I've been on that Little Dipper. Let me tell ya' Jmoff. It was wild! My partially digested corndog ended up in some dad's lap while he and his daughter were riding in the Mad Hatter's orange teacup. And that ride wasn't even next to the Little Dipper!




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