Good thread for posters to talk about their D1 buzz regarding the changes in the baseball rules.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
What are the rules pertaining to sitting out a year? when does that apply?
Rules don't go into effect until this August, coaches have had one year to adjust, cutting back their roster last summer. The rule stats that the max for schollies is 27, with 30 going into effect next year with 25% max dollars for scholarhip counters only. I don't know of anyone who was already on roster being cut $$.
As far as drafted players returning, if the player was an impact player and will help the team win, coaches pretty happy with them not leaving and usually this is discussed before the draft (options).
Coaches that have years of success at budgeting can handle the new rules.
As far as drafted players returning, if the player was an impact player and will help the team win, coaches pretty happy with them not leaving and usually this is discussed before the draft (options).
Coaches that have years of success at budgeting can handle the new rules.
Not sure I follow you TPM. What does your reply have to do with sitting out a year?
I was responding to OS's post.
The sit out rule is in effect. If you transfer D1 to D1 you sit out a year.
The sit out rule is in effect. If you transfer D1 to D1 you sit out a year.
Dosn't it apply D-2 to D-1 as well?
http://www.ncaa.org/library/general/transfer_guide/2006...7_transfer_guide.pdf
Refer to 4-4 transfer rule, according to what I read and understand, there is nothing preventing a D2 to transfer to D1 and not play, unless he never qualified at D1.
Refer to 4-4 transfer rule, according to what I read and understand, there is nothing preventing a D2 to transfer to D1 and not play, unless he never qualified at D1.
Anyone who transfers into D1 regardless of coming in from D1 or D2 must sit out a year,
The link above is for 2006-2007. Here's the current link:
Transfer Guide
The language used in the actual rule (14.5.5.2.10) simply refers to transfers from another four year institution. It doesn't matter if the previous institution is NAIA, D1, D2, or D3. A baseball player has to sit a year if transferring into D1.
Transfer Guide
The language used in the actual rule (14.5.5.2.10) simply refers to transfers from another four year institution. It doesn't matter if the previous institution is NAIA, D1, D2, or D3. A baseball player has to sit a year if transferring into D1.
Thanks 3FG.
There are exceptions.
The only way to avoid the 4-4 sit out is to transfer to JUCO and then go back to a 4 year.
There are exceptions.
The only way to avoid the 4-4 sit out is to transfer to JUCO and then go back to a 4 year.
Where does that leave a school like the University of Georgia? They may have up to 26 players returning and 18 (or more)new recruits who were not drafted or if they were they haven't signed yet. And that does not account for any redshirts from last year who did not transfer, although I think most of them did. Don't the 27 scholarship players need to be assigned their scholarships in August this year, not January? Does that mean that in August, several of the players will need to be told there is no money for them, except the HOPE, which is not countable aid?
26+18=44 is a big problem. Players aren't just going to be told they don't get money. They're going to be told they're not on the team.
Reading over the new transfer rules, players have until Aug 1, 2008 to transfer without having to sit out.
I would imagine (and hope) that at this time players have had their end of year interviews and given news of where they stand with team plans.
I would imagine (and hope) that at this time players have had their end of year interviews and given news of where they stand with team plans.
TPM,
I'm not understanding the August 1, 2008 date. Are you saying D1's can transfer without sitting out as long as they do it by 8/1/2008?
I'm not understanding the August 1, 2008 date. Are you saying D1's can transfer without sitting out as long as they do it by 8/1/2008?
I know a half dozen or so of the UGA recruits, they have not been contacted yet about the August 1 deadline and time is running out. While they know the history of many UGA recruits (transfer after the fall)they all feel confident they won't be the ones who don't make it. They seem not to be aware of the change this year of scholarships for spring '09 decided on in August. Does anyone know if that is the case this year?
The new rules start August 1st this year but essentially have already been invoved. At thye end of Fall 08 if you are cut you sit if ransferring to an NCAA scho0ol. Most player from the teams who mader roster last year were informed that they were cut at the exit meeting in thye spring 08. Guys who were cut at the end of Fall 07 and the guys cut after the exit meeting all have until 1st August 08 to find new NCAA teams.
The scholarship changes only effect new 1st year players starting in 08. New recruits should know the new rules by doing their home work.
The scholarship changes only effect new 1st year players starting in 08. New recruits should know the new rules by doing their home work.
Most coaches starting working on this last summer. Can't speak for UGA coach, but I do know two former players (one family member posts here) where things didn't go the right way as promised, in their opinion.
I feel for the coaches of programs where their incoming recruits get drafted as well as players. Coaches have to work really hard at now trying to work on the drafted recruits to come to school or sign a pro contract, they essentially have commitments and money tied up in their decision until mid August. They get burned as well as players. Also a coach, as stated before should have a meeting with his players that would appear to be draft prospects. I know mine had a discussion with his HC junior fal, what it would take to sign or comeback though he knew coming back may mean less scholarship money. He was one of those who was considered a three year scholarship player and we took that chance. May not be a practice at some places but a coach needs to get an idea of who is coming and who is going so he can offer to recruits and not hold them off and not get caught short in the fall.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think that the fall roster has to be at 35? I remember this being a complaint, that those that overcrowed in the fall still may do it. They can't cut NLI players so that would possibly put the non scholarship player at risk.
I never quite saw the value of having any more show up in the fall than you actually need. If my son is recruited and given a scholarship, why does he have to start trying out all over for the 35 man roster?
I really don't care what a coach tells a recruited walk on about being a part of the team, if your numbers don't work who is out first? If there'sa a need you are in.
The above has always been my opinion, regardless of new rules. And you have to pay attention to the numbers during recruiting.
I feel for the coaches of programs where their incoming recruits get drafted as well as players. Coaches have to work really hard at now trying to work on the drafted recruits to come to school or sign a pro contract, they essentially have commitments and money tied up in their decision until mid August. They get burned as well as players. Also a coach, as stated before should have a meeting with his players that would appear to be draft prospects. I know mine had a discussion with his HC junior fal, what it would take to sign or comeback though he knew coming back may mean less scholarship money. He was one of those who was considered a three year scholarship player and we took that chance. May not be a practice at some places but a coach needs to get an idea of who is coming and who is going so he can offer to recruits and not hold them off and not get caught short in the fall.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think that the fall roster has to be at 35? I remember this being a complaint, that those that overcrowed in the fall still may do it. They can't cut NLI players so that would possibly put the non scholarship player at risk.
I never quite saw the value of having any more show up in the fall than you actually need. If my son is recruited and given a scholarship, why does he have to start trying out all over for the 35 man roster?
I really don't care what a coach tells a recruited walk on about being a part of the team, if your numbers don't work who is out first? If there'sa a need you are in.
The above has always been my opinion, regardless of new rules. And you have to pay attention to the numbers during recruiting.
quote:Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think that the fall roster has to be at 35? I remember this being a complaint, that those that overcrowed in the fall still may do it. They can't cut NLI players so that would possibly put the non scholarship player at risk.
As far as I know, this is correct. Teams can have 40-50+ players in the fall, as long as they cut numbers to a max 35 for the spring roster.
If a player is not receiving athletic monies, it is imperative that he verify just how many players the school plans to have in the fall. This year, the max number of athletic money players is 30 (with the number dropping to 27 next year). If a recruited walk-on is one of 4-5 being brought on (and there are no existing walk-ons taking up space on the roster), the player is probably okay, although it would be highly beneficial to get reassurances from the head coach. If a recruited walk-on is one of 10-15 being brought on, there's a problem and some of those WO's won't be on the team come spring.
I believe it's already too late to transfer to a D1 school and not sit.
A player will need one full academic year in residence to be eligible. So unless a player transferred before the 2007-2008 championship segment started (typically by enrolling in the second semester of 2007-2008 at the new school), he won't be eligible for baseball next spring.
Maybe I mis-remember this, but I believe this is the reason so many players got cut late last fall.
A player will need one full academic year in residence to be eligible. So unless a player transferred before the 2007-2008 championship segment started (typically by enrolling in the second semester of 2007-2008 at the new school), he won't be eligible for baseball next spring.
Maybe I mis-remember this, but I believe this is the reason so many players got cut late last fall.
I think 3F is correct simply because a Freshman won't know if he is cut or even unhappy until after the fall roster is in place. A Fresman would have to not show up and not play in the fall.
Many coaches do not know who is going to show up. They may have not even talked to a WO who just decides to tryout at the last moment. Also RWO may get late offers and do not show.
There is no limit to the fall roster. NLI players are deemed to be on the spring roster when they are listed on the fall roster.
Many coaches do not know who is going to show up. They may have not even talked to a WO who just decides to tryout at the last moment. Also RWO may get late offers and do not show.
There is no limit to the fall roster. NLI players are deemed to be on the spring roster when they are listed on the fall roster.
The transfer guide says the option is not avaliable after Aug 1, 2008. 
I know some players who are transfering now but not sure where they are going. They don't seem the type to sit the bench for one year. They are going for more playing opportunity to be starters. I don't htink htey would have left if they couldn't do this.
I also thought it came into effect last year, but I think that many coaches did it so there wouldn't be a made scramble this summer.
Can you find out?
I know some players who are transfering now but not sure where they are going. They don't seem the type to sit the bench for one year. They are going for more playing opportunity to be starters. I don't htink htey would have left if they couldn't do this.
I also thought it came into effect last year, but I think that many coaches did it so there wouldn't be a made scramble this summer.
Can you find out?
quote:I know some players who are transfering now but not sure where they are going. They don't seem the type to sit the bench for one year. They are going for more playing opportunity to be starters. I don't htink htey would have left if they couldn't do this.
The coach probebly didn't tell them what they wanted to hear and they have no choice, unless they can go to a JC.
I believe the tranistion rule required the player to be enrolled at the new school by 8/1, and as most schools don't start fall classes until the end of august or sept, they essentially needed to transfer at the begining of the 08 spring/winter semester to avoid sitting for a year.
I got ya. So transfer is based on when you attend class or when your paperwork goes through?
I reread the transfer guide as it relates to the special exception to the one rule, it states:
"Important Note: If you play
Division I baseball, you will not be
eligible to use this exception after
August 1, 2008"
Thus, my previous statment is a little inaccurate. Spring 08 was the last year one could use the exception, which means in order to meet the 1 year rule, for which there will be no exception, one needed to transfer and be enrolled by Jan 08 so that 1 year requirment will be met by the start of the 09 season, otherwise one will need to wait for the '10 season to be eligable at a 4 year school.
Thus a D1 player could transfer to another d1/d2/d3/jc in the spring 08, play using the exception. but in the fall of 08, not be eligable to play in any "official" fall games because the special exception no-longer applies, however would be eiligable to play in the spring.
"Important Note: If you play
Division I baseball, you will not be
eligible to use this exception after
August 1, 2008"
Thus, my previous statment is a little inaccurate. Spring 08 was the last year one could use the exception, which means in order to meet the 1 year rule, for which there will be no exception, one needed to transfer and be enrolled by Jan 08 so that 1 year requirment will be met by the start of the 09 season, otherwise one will need to wait for the '10 season to be eligable at a 4 year school.
Thus a D1 player could transfer to another d1/d2/d3/jc in the spring 08, play using the exception. but in the fall of 08, not be eligable to play in any "official" fall games because the special exception no-longer applies, however would be eiligable to play in the spring.
.
So we are back where we started....correct?...
Leave a DI June 08 or later...for another DI...and you will have to sit out a year?
44
.
So we are back where we started....correct?...
Leave a DI June 08 or later...for another DI...and you will have to sit out a year?
44.
I would check with the school and coach where I seeking to transfer to---then there will be no misinterpretations
.
Sage advice.
44
.
Sage advice.
44.
TRhit's advice is certainly good and correct. However, some of us have no actual stake in the matter, and therefore have no coach to call, but are still interested.
CollegeParent,
I think that while the Transfer Guide is useful, it doesn't contain the actual rules. These are in the D1 Manual, and that's where we need to look to try to infer the real rule.
There is a general rule that requires transfer students from 4 year institutions to spend one academic year of residency at a new intitution before they become eligible for competition. For many sports, there is a One Time Exception to the general rule which waives the residency requirement. In April 2007, it was decided that baseball would be one of the sports excluded from the exception. The rule was revised "4/27/07 effective 8/1/08 applicable to student-athletes
who transfer on or after August 1, 2008)".
So a question (already asked by TPM) is "when does a transfer occur?"
I don't find an explicit answer in the D1 Manual, so I'll speculate based on related examples. I think a transfer occurs when the student enrolls full time at the new school for a regular (not summer) term. If that speculation is correct, the practical effect would be that a player needed to have transferred at the beginning of the Spring 2008 term. There would be no practical way to have transferred in June or mid spring term, for example.
CollegeParent,
I think that while the Transfer Guide is useful, it doesn't contain the actual rules. These are in the D1 Manual, and that's where we need to look to try to infer the real rule.
There is a general rule that requires transfer students from 4 year institutions to spend one academic year of residency at a new intitution before they become eligible for competition. For many sports, there is a One Time Exception to the general rule which waives the residency requirement. In April 2007, it was decided that baseball would be one of the sports excluded from the exception. The rule was revised "4/27/07 effective 8/1/08 applicable to student-athletes
who transfer on or after August 1, 2008)".
So a question (already asked by TPM) is "when does a transfer occur?"
I don't find an explicit answer in the D1 Manual, so I'll speculate based on related examples. I think a transfer occurs when the student enrolls full time at the new school for a regular (not summer) term. If that speculation is correct, the practical effect would be that a player needed to have transferred at the beginning of the Spring 2008 term. There would be no practical way to have transferred in June or mid spring term, for example.
we are going through a 4-2-4 transfer right now.
enrolled in JCC winter 2008. Can practice with DI team this fall but cannot play against other teams until 1 year has elapsed but will be eligible for 2009 season.
enrolled in JCC winter 2008. Can practice with DI team this fall but cannot play against other teams until 1 year has elapsed but will be eligible for 2009 season.
3FG is correct, anyone that didn't transfer into the spring semester at the new school is subject to sitting out a year.
Also, as to roster size, the roster becomes official the day before the first game of the Championship Session.
Also, as to roster size, the roster becomes official the day before the first game of the Championship Session.
quote:Originally posted by baseballtoday:
we are going through a 4-2-4 transfer right now.
enrolled in JCC winter 2008. Can practice with DI team this fall but cannot play against other teams until 1 year has elapsed but will be eligible for 2009 season.
Was this player enrolled in a 4 year school in fall 2007?
Here's my question about the roster limit ... as I understand it, redshirts must be included.
But the fact that the due date for the roster is the day before the season starts suggests that it only pertains to who is eligible to compete in games, and that players not listed on the roster are still able to work out with the team for the rest of the year. But then I've heard that such players cannot even practice (as I suppose that would make them "de facto" redshirts.)
Aside from the rule itself, I cannot find a single thing anywhere that elaborates on this - i.e. that describes what it means to be on or off the roster, and what those who are off can or can't do with the team.
Any help???
But the fact that the due date for the roster is the day before the season starts suggests that it only pertains to who is eligible to compete in games, and that players not listed on the roster are still able to work out with the team for the rest of the year. But then I've heard that such players cannot even practice (as I suppose that would make them "de facto" redshirts.)
Aside from the rule itself, I cannot find a single thing anywhere that elaborates on this - i.e. that describes what it means to be on or off the roster, and what those who are off can or can't do with the team.
Any help???
The rule doesn't exist because the player is not a player in the eyes of the NCAA. He is a guy without status. Anyone the coach wants to allow to practice can as long as they are insured and do not participate in games. You have to be on the roster to be considered a player.
I would suggest you check how stringent the rules are regarding practices even for rostered players. Personally I think a coach would be nuts to allow a guy who is not rostered practice anywhere near the team.
I would suggest you check how stringent the rules are regarding practices even for rostered players. Personally I think a coach would be nuts to allow a guy who is not rostered practice anywhere near the team.
Here's the rule which limits baseball teams to 35 squad members during the champiionship segment. As I read it, it effectively keeps non-squad members from practising with the varsity team. I believe that most schools only have varsity teams.
The rule also shows that anyone who is a counter towards 11.7 must be included in the 35.
17.4.8.3 Squad Size Limitation -- Championship Segment. Effective Date: Aug 01, 2008
An institution shall declare a varsity squad of a maximum of 35 student-athletes by the day prior to its first scheduled contest in the championship segment of the playing and practice season. Only those student-athletes who are declared as varsity squad members at that time shall be eligible to participate in countable athletically related activities with the varsity squad during the remainder of the championship segment. Declared varsity squad members shall not participate in countable athletically related activities with an institution's subvarsity team (e.g., freshman, junior varsity). A student-athlete who is a counter (per Bylaw 15.5.1) must be included in the varsity squad limit. (Adopted: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/08, Revised: 10/22/07)
17.02.1 Countable athletically related activities. Countable athletically related activities include any required activity with an athletics purpose involving student-athletes and at the direction of, or supervised by one or more of an institution’s coaching staff (including strength and conditioning coaches) and must be counted within the weekly and daily limitations under Bylaw 17.1.6.1 and17.1.6.2. Administrative activities (e.g., academic meetings, compliance meetings) shall not be considered as countable athletically related activities. (Adopted: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/91; Revised: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/03)
The rule also shows that anyone who is a counter towards 11.7 must be included in the 35.
17.4.8.3 Squad Size Limitation -- Championship Segment. Effective Date: Aug 01, 2008
An institution shall declare a varsity squad of a maximum of 35 student-athletes by the day prior to its first scheduled contest in the championship segment of the playing and practice season. Only those student-athletes who are declared as varsity squad members at that time shall be eligible to participate in countable athletically related activities with the varsity squad during the remainder of the championship segment. Declared varsity squad members shall not participate in countable athletically related activities with an institution's subvarsity team (e.g., freshman, junior varsity). A student-athlete who is a counter (per Bylaw 15.5.1) must be included in the varsity squad limit. (Adopted: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/08, Revised: 10/22/07)
17.02.1 Countable athletically related activities. Countable athletically related activities include any required activity with an athletics purpose involving student-athletes and at the direction of, or supervised by one or more of an institution’s coaching staff (including strength and conditioning coaches) and must be counted within the weekly and daily limitations under Bylaw 17.1.6.1 and17.1.6.2. Administrative activities (e.g., academic meetings, compliance meetings) shall not be considered as countable athletically related activities. (Adopted: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/91; Revised: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/03)
The rule is clear. They do get around it by having no coach and so on but anyone who is told they can practice with the team is being misled. Non of thye coaches can be present and it cannot be a scheduled practice.
July 10, 2008
Giardina tranferring to UT
Former Durant standout Carmine Giardina's transfer from UCF to UT was accepted Wednesday evening, a UT university source confirmed Thursday.
Giardina, a 2006 Times All-Hillsborough County first teamer and Class 6A All-State selection, will be eligible to pitch next season because he is transferring from a Division I school to a Division II school.
"I definitely think it's a good fit for me," Giardina told the Times. "I want to have a chance to win a championship and UT is in the World Series every year. It will be a easy transition for me because I know a lot of the coaches and players there."
Giardina said knowing UT head coach Joe Urso and pitching coach Sam Militello played a part in his decision, as did his longtime friendships with UT players Garrett Maines, a Riverview grad, and former Durant teammate Casey Albanese.
The 6-foot-3, 210-pound lefthander was 3-3 with a 8.92 ERA in 16 appearances (five starts) last season during his sophomore season with the Golden Knights. Despite allowing 54 hits in 38 1/3 innings, he averaged more than a strikeout per inning with 45 strikeouts.
Giardina is currently pitching for the Chatham A's of the presigious Cape Cod Summer League. He is 1-1 with a 3.18 ERA in 11 1/3 innings pitched.
"It's awesome," he said. "I'm having a blast. It definitely feels different than the college season. The competition is great, but the atmosphere is like high school summer ball."
Giardina tranferring to UT
Former Durant standout Carmine Giardina's transfer from UCF to UT was accepted Wednesday evening, a UT university source confirmed Thursday.
Giardina, a 2006 Times All-Hillsborough County first teamer and Class 6A All-State selection, will be eligible to pitch next season because he is transferring from a Division I school to a Division II school.
"I definitely think it's a good fit for me," Giardina told the Times. "I want to have a chance to win a championship and UT is in the World Series every year. It will be a easy transition for me because I know a lot of the coaches and players there."
Giardina said knowing UT head coach Joe Urso and pitching coach Sam Militello played a part in his decision, as did his longtime friendships with UT players Garrett Maines, a Riverview grad, and former Durant teammate Casey Albanese.
The 6-foot-3, 210-pound lefthander was 3-3 with a 8.92 ERA in 16 appearances (five starts) last season during his sophomore season with the Golden Knights. Despite allowing 54 hits in 38 1/3 innings, he averaged more than a strikeout per inning with 45 strikeouts.
Giardina is currently pitching for the Chatham A's of the presigious Cape Cod Summer League. He is 1-1 with a 3.18 ERA in 11 1/3 innings pitched.
"It's awesome," he said. "I'm having a blast. It definitely feels different than the college season. The competition is great, but the atmosphere is like high school summer ball."
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by baseballtoday:
we are going through a 4-2-4 transfer right now.
enrolled in JCC winter 2008. Can practice with DI team this fall but cannot play against other teams until 1 year has elapsed but will be eligible for 2009 season.
Was this player enrolled in a 4 year school in fall 2007?
Yes, the player was enrolled Fall 2007 at DI and enrolled winter 2008 at JC. Enrolling Fall 2008 at DI. Playing eligble Winter 2009.
Ok so is the key ingredient here that the transfer took place before 8/1/2008, not D1 to D2?
The transfer rule only applies to D1. Anyone can transfer into a D2. Many D2 schools will be picking up D1 transfers for this coming season.
quote:Originally posted by baseballtoday:
we are going through a 4-2-4 transfer right now. Enrolled in JCC winter 2008. Can practice with DI team this fall but cannot play against other teams until 1 year has elapsed but will be eligible for 2009 season.
Question from CPLZ: Was this player enrolled in a 4 year school in fall 2007?
Answer Yes, the player was enrolled Fall 2007 at DI and enrolled winter 2008 at JC. Enrolling Fall 2008 at DI. Playing eligble Winter 2009.
The effect, as baseballtoday says, is that this player has to wait for 1 year to elapse, but the rule is phrased somewhat differently, and other 4-2-4 or 2-4 transfer situations can be affected differently.
In general, a transfer from a 2 year college to a D1 school needs to satisfy a year in residence, but an exception (the NCAA seems to backslide a lot!) is permitted for those qualifiers who took enough courses at the JC to transfer an average of at least 12 hours per term to the D1 school. For most sports, that transferring player can compete immediately. For basketball and now baseball (newly effective Aug 1, 2008
), the player has to transfer before the end of the D1 college's first term or wait until the next academic year to compete.