The top 14 year olds on FOX TV Sunday

Good stuff, thanks for posting. And this is about one of those kids with remarkable talent:

www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=13023

P.S.: as this game gets more established, and PG itself gets a bigger foothold on the West Coast, it will become more of a true East v. West game (more like the Classic for rising seniors) -- right now, the rosters for this game have Tennessee, Iowa, Indiana, and Louisiana in the West! LOL

DVR is set for Fox Sports Network - 7pm Sunday night.  

hshuler posted:

DVR is set for Fox Sports Network - 7pm Sunday night.  

I bet!  Have a great time and congrats to your son for getting this recognition Shu!!  Take notes, want to hear all about it. 

And @Wog1910...great press on the kid and Congrats!  #specialtalent

JW. 

Great idea for a game. Son was in GA this summer for the 14U WWBA tourney and plenty of talent was on display I was told.  Big shout out to HSHULER's son as he was selected. He is a talented kid from a great family. Good luck to everyone involved this weekend!

Thanks JW (for outing me)...JW (again) & R-Mc for the kind words...and a huge thanks to PGStaff and staff (no pun intended) for the invitation and being extremely professional and easy to work with throughout this process.

We are looking forward to the entire weekend but personally, I am looking forward to the hospital visit the most so that my son can hopefully keep all of this/life in perspective and realize how blessed he is...and I am not talking about baseball.

My son is extremely excited about this opportunity. He has competed with or against about half of these kids over the last couple of years so we both consider it an honor to be mentioned in a similar category of these young men. 

Shu

It's a good cause. But I'm not thrilled about fourteen year olds being recruited. I went through it with my daughter when she was fifteen. Most kids don't know what they want out of college at fourteen. I believe it was Root's son who once said, "College? I'm fifteen. I don't even know what I want for lunch." I would hate to think they're only going to college for baseball. I'm sure that's as far as they've thought about college.  For most of them baseball won't be their long term future. I really wish the recruiters and scouts had to stay away until junior year.

I've told parents that committing at age 14-15 just isn't necessary.  If the boy progresses the way the college thinks, they will still want him when he is 16-17.  If he doesn't progress as much as the college thinks, it turns into a big problem for the player.

If they want a 14 year old, and the player continues to improve, why wouldn't they want him when he is 16 years old.  Let's face it, the top programs want the top players.  If the best 14 is also the best at 16, will they tell him they no longer are interested in him?

That said people will do what they want and I'm OK with that, too.  Just need to know that the early commitment is stacked in favor of the college.  That doesn't mean things won't work out just fine for many.  Just know that a lot can change between that early commitment and signing the LOI and playing baseball at that college.

From my viewpoint, son (freshmen) hasn't visited a college, has no idea what he wants to major in and probably the biggest factor for now is that he wants to play two sports (baseball/football) in college so he's not close to being ready to commit anywhere. 

On the contrary, have a friend whose son (sophomore) has always wanted to play for a certain school got an offer from that school and committed. Asked his dad, "what do I need to wait for? This is where I have always wanted to play." Dad said he couldn't argue with that.  

Now, my son has schools that he is definitely interested in but this is still very early in the process for us. That may all change next year or two years from now but personally, we aren't in a rush. 

HSHULER,

I'm in Ft Myers for this event.  Looking forward to seeing your son and the other talented kids play.  Hope the weather cooperates!  Supposed to be nice Sunday.  Your son will probably remember this event for the rest of his life. Congratulations on being invited. 

BTW, I didn't even know who your son was until it was mentioned in this thread.  Always amazes me how many parents with very talented sons contribute here at HSBBW.

PGStaff posted:

HSHULER,

I'm in Ft Myers for this event.  Looking forward to seeing your son and the other talented kids play.  Hope the weather cooperates!  Supposed to be nice Sunday.  Your son will probably remember this event for the rest of his life. Congratulations on being invited. 

BTW, I didn't even know who your son was until it was mentioned in this thread.  Always amazes me how many parents with very talented sons contribute here at HSBBW.

Thanks again! 

Good luck to your son, HSHULER. 

Hey!!!! Congrats my friend.

FWIW, I know someone who will  be there this weekend too!!!!

TPM posted:

Hey!!!! Congrats my friend.

FWIW, I know someone who will  be there this weekend too!!!!

I would love to meet him! LoL

Elijah posted:

Good luck to your son, HSHULER. 

Thank you!

Anyone interested in watching some very talented 14 year old players, the game will be on FOX Sports shortly after 7:00 East Coast Time.

There is a young kid playing in the game that has some unbelievable athletic blood lines in another sport.

PGStaff posted:

Anyone interested in watching some very talented 14 year old players, the game will be on FOX Sports shortly after 7:00 East Coast Time.

There is a young kid playing in the game that has some unbelievable athletic blood lines in another sport.

It wouldn't happen to be Tebow's nephew would it?

I couldn't resist.

FWIW, each player has a link to the children's hospital that will be benefiting this game. If you do know anyone involved, children's hospitals are always a good cause to donate to.

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/3...383/14u-perfect-game

Teaching Elder posted:

PGStaff posted:

Anyone interested in watching some very talented 14 year old players, the game will be on FOX Sports shortly after 7:00 East Coast Time.

There is a young kid playing in the game that has some unbelievable athletic blood lines in another sport.

It wouldn't happen to be Tebow's nephew would it?

I couldn't resist.

Hint, Hint:  His parents played tennis.

Slightly off topic, but...where can I pick up one of those East/West PG hats the kids were sporting? They're great looking hats! 

Agassi and Graf discourage their kids from playing tennis

http://www.foxsports.com/tenni...o-play-tennis-051411

https://www.washingtonpost.com...s-a-nasty-curveball/

RJM posted:

Agassi and Graf discourage their kids from playing tennis

http://www.foxsports.com/tenni...o-play-tennis-051411

https://www.washingtonpost.com...s-a-nasty-curveball/

FYI, talked to Agassi quite a bit at PG World Series this summer and he said that you will rarely see a second generation tennis player because it's a brutal for kids who plays at a high level. 

Fun game to watch.   Lots of talented kids.  Saw a few questionable mechanics among the pitchers throwing high 80's, which makes me fear for the their long term health.  14 year olds throwing sliders and lots of curveballs is not a great thing.

The Home Plate Umpire was well below average.  A huge strike zone took away from seeing what the top hitters could do.   All that said, again it was fun to watch.

Hey!  What's wrong a huge strike zone? Your kid a hitter or something?   Lol.

I'm wondering about kids whose mechanics look shaky  but are already committed to high level D1 programs, at least according to the announcers.  Unless there have been new developments in throwing mechanics that I missed.....

smokeminside posted:

I'm wondering about kids whose mechanics look shaky  but are already committed to high level D1 programs, at least according to the announcers.  Unless there have been new developments in throwing mechanics that I missed.....

These are 14 year olds with above average arms at this time.  In other words, works in progress.  The hitters did seem to be more advanced.

They were all studs for sure. 

I hung in there until HSHULER'so son came in.  Now folks, this is a STUD, and also a highly ranked football player in GA.  

I am not really into the early commitment stuff,  but it doesn't matter, if these kids stay on track, they will all have opportunities, top college programs as well as pro.

It was fun to watch the younger kids go at it, but Darren Sutton is very painful to listen to.

TPM posted:

smokeminside posted:

I'm wondering about kids whose mechanics look shaky  but are already committed to high level D1 programs, at least according to the announcers.  Unless there have been new developments in throwing mechanics that I missed.....

These are 14 year olds with above average arms at this time.  In other words, works in progress.  The hitters did seem to be more advanced.

They were all studs for sure. 

I hung in there until HSHULER'so son came in.  Now folks, this is a STUD, and also a highly ranked football player in GA.  

I am not really into the early commitment stuff,  but it doesn't matter, if these kids stay on track, they will all have opportunities, top college programs as well as pro.

Thanks TPM!

My son had an absolute blast and said that the weekend definitely surpassed his Cooperstown experience.  He also told me on the plane ride back home that his goal is to make the 2019 game in San Diego. I told him to 'go for it but it will take a lot of hard work, commitment and dedication.' 

I got to meet Jerry and family and the best way to describe them was 'going the extra mile' for the boys and parents in every way.  I could tell that they sincerely wanted the boys to learn as much as they could in the jam-packed weekend while thoroughly enjoying the experience. Mission accomplished - as every kid and parent talked about how amazing the entire experience was for them. 

Just think how good those high 80s 14 year olds would be if they had good mechanics?  Actually I was very impressed by the pitching in the game last night.  For the most part I didn't see that many serious mechanical flaws, I just saw several different deliveries, different arm speeds, different levels of effort.  Usually good mechanics and high velocity go together.

Personally I think we put too much emphasis on perfect mechanics.  Sometimes a players body tells him how he best throws a baseball.  It is called natural ability.  Bob Feller learned how he could best throw a baseball by throwing against the side of a barn.  His body told him how he could best throw a baseball.  Heck, if he grew up today there would be a pitching instructor changing his mechanics.  Wonder if he would have ended up being even better than a Hall of Fame pitcher by changing his mechanics?

Maybe the most revealing thing is to watch Major League pitchers.  Wonder how many of them have what a pitching guru would say is bad mechanics. How many have the same mechanics?

Then there are the cookie cutter type mechanics, where every pitcher looks identical.  Yet we know that the same exact mechanics can't possibly work best for every pitcher.

The greatest pitching coaches don't try to change what comes natural, they make small mechanical adjustments that enhance the pitchers natural ability.  To me that is what teaching good mechanics is all about. Good mechanics should create more velocity and better control.  

The more velocity you gain the more at risk you are for injury.  Also changing what is natural can create more risk. Improving what comes natural can in fact create more risk of injury.  So it all ends up being a risk vs reward issue.  "Perfect" mechanics, but low velocity = Less Risk, Less Reward.  "Bad" mechanics, but high velocity = More Risk, More Reward.  Not often in athletics is there something where high rewards are produced by taking less risk.

That said, I too see what I consider poor mechanics that seem to be more at risk for injury.  But it's all about what you want, we all want safe 90+ pitchers.  But is there such a pitcher?  And if there was would it be just because of mechanics?  So in the end the choice is, Would you rather have a 90+ pitcher with poor mechanics or a 78 mph pitcher with great mechanics?  Yea, I know... We all want the 90+ pitcher with great mechanics.  But IMO there is no such thing as "safe" mechanics for pitchers with high velocity. Even those with so called perfect mechanics end up getting injured. Every pitcher is unique, they don't all throw the same way. Hitters would love it if they were all the same.

BTW, I do get overly concerned with mechanics, too.  But the older I get the more apparent how important natural ability is when trying to predict a player or pitchers ceiling.

There this old saying about making chicken salad

PGStaff posted:

Just think how good those high 80s 14 year olds would be if they had good mechanics?  Actually I was very impressed by the pitching in the game last night.  For the most part I didn't see that many serious mechanical flaws, I just saw several different deliveries, different arm speeds, different levels of effort.  Usually good mechanics and high velocity go together.

Personally I think we put too much emphasis on perfect mechanics.  Sometimes a players body tells him how he best throws a baseball.  It is called natural ability.  Bob Feller learned how he could best throw a baseball by throwing against the side of a barn.  His body told him how he could best throw a baseball.  Heck, if he grew up today there would be a pitching instructor changing his mechanics.  Wonder if he would have ended up being even better than a Hall of Fame pitcher by changing his mechanics?

Maybe the most revealing thing is to watch Major League pitchers.  Wonder how many of them have what a pitching guru would say is bad mechanics. How many have the same mechanics?

Then there are the cookie cutter type mechanics, where every pitcher looks identical.  Yet we know that the same exact mechanics can't possibly work best for every pitcher.

The greatest pitching coaches don't try to change what comes natural, they make small mechanical adjustments that enhance the pitchers natural ability.  To me that is what teaching good mechanics is all about. Good mechanics should create more velocity and better control.  

The more velocity you gain the more at risk you are for injury.  Also changing what is natural can create more risk. Improving what comes natural can in fact create more risk of injury.  So it all ends up being a risk vs reward issue.  "Perfect" mechanics, but low velocity = Less Risk, Less Reward.  "Bad" mechanics, but high velocity = More Risk, More Reward.  Not often in athletics is there something where high rewards are produced by taking less risk.

That said, I too see what I consider poor mechanics that seem to be more at risk for injury.  But it's all about what you want, we all want safe 90+ pitchers.  But is there such a pitcher?  And if there was would it be just because of mechanics?  So in the end the choice is, Would you rather have a 90+ pitcher with poor mechanics or a 78 mph pitcher with great mechanics?  Yea, I know... We all want the 90+ pitcher with great mechanics.  But IMO there is no such thing as "safe" mechanics for pitchers with high velocity. Even those with so called perfect mechanics end up getting injured. Every pitcher is unique, they don't all throw the same way. Hitters would love it if they were all the same.

BTW, I do get overly concerned with mechanics, too.  But the older I get the more apparent how important natural ability is when trying to predict a player or pitchers ceiling.

There this old saying about making chicken salad

Read an article on Jake Arrieta a few months back and he talked about how his current pitching coach is the only one who didn't try to change his mechanics. He instead, tried to help him maximize what was natural to him.

Below is an excerpt from the article:

"At the time, Arrieta pitched with his crossfire style from the first base side of the rubber and started his delivery with his hands at his belt. A month later he was pitching from the middle of the rubber and swinging his hands over his head. A few months later the Orioles forbade their pitchers to use the cutter for fear that it sapped fastball velocity.

By the next April, Arrieta still pitched from the middle of the rubber, but his hands were back at his belt. By May he was back on the first base side of the rubber. By September he had trimmed his windup to a modified stretch position. By the next year he was back to the middle of the rubber with a huge change: Adair took away his crossfire step in favor of a stride directly to the plate.

Over the two calendar years under Adair, Arrieta went 6–16 with a 6.30 ERA. “There were so many things in Baltimore not many people know about,” Arrieta says. “I had struggles with my pitching coach. A lot of guys did. Three or four guys—Tillman, Matusz, [Zach] Britton—were just really uncomfortable in their own skins at the time, trying to be the guys they weren’t. You can attest how difficult it is to try to reinvent your mechanics against the best competition in the world."

TPM, You nailed it!  Young Shuler, along with most of those kids, has a very bright future.  I really believe he will be one of the very best hitters in the country when he graduates from HS.  The bat speed he creates is very unusual for his age.  Also an absolutely great young man.  It was a pleasure meeting HSHULER, what a nice guy, hope to see him again before too long.

DESERTDUCK,

Welcome to HSBBW.  Daron Sutton is a pro.  He has done everything from MLB play by play to covering youth events.  To each his own, but to me Daron is one of the very best.  And the thing that really sets him apart is his passion for youth baseball.  I wouldn't pick anyone else to do our events.  He understands that the game is about the players. 

Points all well taken re: mechanics.  I wasn't thinking about it very carefully when I mentioned it.  Just noticed a couple pitchers who seemed to be short arming it, and wondering the same thing Jerry wrote: how good could these kids be if they got full extension on their arms?

Then, I started thinking of my youngest son who, when he first started pitching, was intimidatingly fast.  Threw 3/4s with a lot of natural movement. Then his head coach's brother in law who, as far as i know, knows as much about pitching as I do about Quantum Physics (i.e. nada, zero, zilch), got a hold of him and his velocity dropped 10 mph but his arm slot was more over the top.  I'm trying to undo all that now.

I agree, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  And, yes, very impressed with the level of play I saw yesterday.

PGStaff posted:

TPM, You nailed it!  Young Shuler, along with most of those kids, has a very bright future.  I really believe he will be one of the very best hitters in the country when he graduates from HS.  The bat speed he creates is very unusual for his age.  Also an absolutely great young man.  It was a pleasure meeting HSHULER, what a nice guy, hope to see him again before too long.

DESERTDUCK,

Welcome to HSBBW.  Daron Sutton is a pro.  He has done everything from MLB play by play to covering youth events.  To each his own, but to me Daron is one of the very best.  And the thing that really sets him apart is his passion for youth baseball.  I wouldn't pick anyone else to do our events.  He understands that the game is about the players. 

Thanks for the kind words!

I haven't listened to Sutton on the tv broadcast yet but he was outstanding at the awards ceremony. The kids love him too!

10 thumbs up to the last two posts! (I guess that means I'm all thumbs LOL) 

Really enjoyed watching the game and getting to see hshuler's and wog1910's kids play. Very talented.

I was involved in the very first AFLAC All American Classic in 2003.  Now it is the PGAAClassic.  When that game ended in 2003 I told people that it was going to be the number one event in high school baseball.  Last night when the game ended I felt the same way.  This is going to be the best event ever for players at this age.

Other than a couple lightning delays and then the sprinklers going off and a terrible PA announcer.  I really enjoyed everything.  The girl singing the National Anthem was outstanding, the grounds crew outstanding, the kids from the hospital and the fireworks were spectacular.  And most enjoyable was watching all those talented kids play the game.  This was the first one and it is already one of my favorite events.  It is going to be a lot of fun following these players over the next few years.

I'm a Daron Sutton fan.   Part of it is being a Brewers fan, as he was the play by play voice of the Brewers several years ago.  He does a great job.

I was definitely impressed with the hitting mechanics of several of the players, including Shuler, Ortiz and the kid from Texas who hit a double.   Very advanced mechanics and none of the "swing down to the ball and create backspin" crap that is taught by far too many hitting instructors nationwide

hshuler posted:

PGStaff posted:

Just think how good those high 80s 14 year olds would be if they had good mechanics?  Actually I was very impressed by the pitching in the game last night.  For the most part I didn't see that many serious mechanical flaws, I just saw several different deliveries, different arm speeds, different levels of effort.  Usually good mechanics and high velocity go together.

Personally I think we put too much emphasis on perfect mechanics.  Sometimes a players body tells him how he best throws a baseball.  It is called natural ability.  Bob Feller learned how he could best throw a baseball by throwing against the side of a barn.  His body told him how he could best throw a baseball.  Heck, if he grew up today there would be a pitching instructor changing his mechanics.  Wonder if he would have ended up being even better than a Hall of Fame pitcher by changing his mechanics?

Maybe the most revealing thing is to watch Major League pitchers.  Wonder how many of them have what a pitching guru would say is bad mechanics. How many have the same mechanics?

Then there are the cookie cutter type mechanics, where every pitcher looks identical.  Yet we know that the same exact mechanics can't possibly work best for every pitcher.

The greatest pitching coaches don't try to change what comes natural, they make small mechanical adjustments that enhance the pitchers natural ability.  To me that is what teaching good mechanics is all about. Good mechanics should create more velocity and better control.  

The more velocity you gain the more at risk you are for injury.  Also changing what is natural can create more risk. Improving what comes natural can in fact create more risk of injury.  So it all ends up being a risk vs reward issue.  "Perfect" mechanics, but low velocity = Less Risk, Less Reward.  "Bad" mechanics, but high velocity = More Risk, More Reward.  Not often in athletics is there something where high rewards are produced by taking less risk.

That said, I too see what I consider poor mechanics that seem to be more at risk for injury.  But it's all about what you want, we all want safe 90+ pitchers.  But is there such a pitcher?  And if there was would it be just because of mechanics?  So in the end the choice is, Would you rather have a 90+ pitcher with poor mechanics or a 78 mph pitcher with great mechanics?  Yea, I know... We all want the 90+ pitcher with great mechanics.  But IMO there is no such thing as "safe" mechanics for pitchers with high velocity. Even those with so called perfect mechanics end up getting injured. Every pitcher is unique, they don't all throw the same way. Hitters would love it if they were all the same.

BTW, I do get overly concerned with mechanics, too.  But the older I get the more apparent how important natural ability is when trying to predict a player or pitchers ceiling.

There this old saying about making chicken salad

Read an article on Jake Arrieta a few months back and he talked about how his current pitching coach is the only one who didn't try to change his mechanics. He instead, tried to help him maximize what was natural to him.

Below is an excerpt from the article:

"At the time, Arrieta pitched with his crossfire style from the first base side of the rubber and started his delivery with his hands at his belt. A month later he was pitching from the middle of the rubber and swinging his hands over his head. A few months later the Orioles forbade their pitchers to use the cutter for fear that it sapped fastball velocity.

By the next April, Arrieta still pitched from the middle of the rubber, but his hands were back at his belt. By May he was back on the first base side of the rubber. By September he had trimmed his windup to a modified stretch position. By the next year he was back to the middle of the rubber with a huge change: Adair took away his crossfire step in favor of a stride directly to the plate.

Over the two calendar years under Adair, Arrieta went 6–16 with a 6.30 ERA. “There were so many things in Baltimore not many people know about,” Arrieta says. “I had struggles with my pitching coach. A lot of guys did. Three or four guys—Tillman, Matusz, [Zach] Britton—were just really uncomfortable in their own skins at the time, trying to be the guys they weren’t. You can attest how difficult it is to try to reinvent your mechanics against the best competition in the world."

Now days there's  a lot of money invested in guys.   They feel like they have to protect investments.  Not as much room to just let a guy be good for a few years and then move on.  Teams want a "model."  Don't blame them.  We all want control and consistent results.   At some point maybe they (coaches) will revert.  

Im with Jerry here.  There are far too many "experts" out there.  Look at the Tebow experience.   Just on this board alone, how many "experts" have shown up to tell us how bad his swing is?  Everybody wants to correct this or that.  Many of the best hitters in baseball have had "ugly" swings.   Ugly is as ugly does though, in my opinion.

Congratulations on your boy's honor.  That's awesome.

PGStaff posted:

Would you rather have a 90+ pitcher with poor mechanics or a 78 mph pitcher with great mechanics?  

In a 14 year old?  Or in a finished product as a young adult?  

I think your point was well made about cookie cutter "perfect" mechanics not being wise for everyone.  Agree that the body's natural movements should be followed especially when it comes to arm slot, for instance.   Last night I saw a few kids throwing cutters, which they really shouldn't at age 14/15.  If it is an "accidental" cutter, then that is indicative of potentially dangerous mechanics.

Anyways, I thoroughly enjoyed the broadcast and was very impressed by the talent on display.  I'm a coach, and a Dad of a kid who will be 14U in 2017, so it was great to see what the standards are in terms of talent level.

3and2Fastball posted:

PGStaff posted:

Would you rather have a 90+ pitcher with poor mechanics or a 78 mph pitcher with great mechanics?  

In a 14 year old?  Or in a finished product as a young adult?  

I think your point was well made about cookie cutter "perfect" mechanics not being wise for everyone.  Agree that the body's natural movements should be followed especially when it comes to arm slot, for instance.   Last night I saw a few kids throwing cutters, which they really shouldn't at age 14/15.  If it is an "accidental" cutter, then that is indicative of potentially dangerous mechanics.

Anyways, I thoroughly enjoyed the broadcast and was very impressed by the talent on display.  I'm a coach, and a Dad of a kid who will be 14U in 2017, so it was great to see what the standards are in terms of talent level.

Those 14u kids aren't "the standard" they are the 1%.

My son was at the Lakepoint Freshman WWBA this weekend, the "standard" was about 70mph, lol!