great post/story.....

JBB - Thanks for the post.  Which organization is this son with?  

Texas Rangers, currently in Frisco.

Thank you for that post! I don't think I have yet met a travel ball coach who doesn't think that their program is better for exposure than the high school. I think every coach needs to be confident in their ability to develop players and help the kid get looks, but like you said above and I have said on here before, a player's high school career is a darn large body of work that means something! Yes, competing at highly competitive tournaments in front of coaches matters too, but that is a small body of work. A high school varsity pitcher will probably get something like 8 starts a year (not a pitchers dad so forgive me if I am wrong). They will get 1-2 max in a big tournament. So, you have to put stock in what they do in high school! Plus, there are some damn highly qualified coaches running those HS teams too! Don't discount their influence just because they aren't at Lakepoint or other venues all summer long.

Congrats on AZ Fall League.  That is

YUGE!

Congratulations! As you know from experience and exposure an invite to the AZL has him labeled a lot more of a prospect than when he was a 23rd rounder.

PG once provided the numbers of MLBers who came through Perfect Game. It's large. I wonder what percentage of MLBers (or even power five and other quality college lrogram players) came through large high schools classification competition. There's typically better coaching. There's definitely better competition. There's the possibility for the kind of exposure Just described.

I've mentioned before, the coaching staff at my Kid's high school are all former college players and one former pro.  i.e. pretty much the same experience you find in travel programs.  At every level from the freshman team through varsity.  In fact most of these guys were teammates with or played against the travel team coaches/trainers in college.  And of course HS practices or plays 6 days a week as opposed to the travel team once a week practice.

All for the low low price of $180 or so vs $2500+.... travel teams have nicer uniforms though and the parents get free kool-aid (!)

Congrats JUSTBASEBALL!!!

That is awesome! A lesson to all players and a story for parents to share with their kids. Love this story!

Thanks for sharing.  My 2020 and I talk about this topic often b/c his HS coach (varsity) is unfortunately just not that great.

(Example A: If the kid makes an error in a game, HS coach says, "don't do that again" with no additional instruction.  If kid makes an error in a game with his tournament team, coach tells him what he did wrong, how to fix it and builds drills into practice to help him get it right next time. Big difference.

Example B: He was disgracefully outsmarted by a 16-year-old catcher pulling a little league trick-play in a playoff game. He just doesn't belong in the role, but I have a feeling the school doesn't have much of a choice).

At any rate, we often talk about using those HS games to gain experience on the field (he gets to play a lot and in multiple positions).  However, your post reminds me that I need to remind the kid to always keep an open mind about what's going on there.  

Who knows who this coach may or may not know and how he can influence what happens in the kid's future - even if all he's doing is verifying how hard kid works and that he has a positive, coachable attitude.  

3and2Fastball posted:

I've mentioned before, the coaching staff at my Kid's high school are all former college players and one former pro.  i.e. pretty much the same experience you find in travel programs.  At every level from the freshman team through varsity.  In fact most of these guys were teammates with or played against the travel team coaches/trainers in college.  And of course HS practices or plays 6 days a week as opposed to the travel team once a week practice.

All for the low low price of $180 or so vs $2500+.... travel teams have nicer uniforms though and the parents get free kool-aid (!)

Congrats JUSTBASEBALL!!!

My son's (large classification) high school coaching staff had all former D2 players. The head coach had questionable in game coaching skills. But all of them could teach the game. The JV team had a former D3 All American as head coach and recent D3 player as an assistant. The freshman team I have no idea. What was lacking at the varsity and JV level was pitching knowledge. If not for tenure the JV coach should have been the varsity coach. 

justbaseball posted:

It is often posed on here that HS baseball isn't that important.  Or completely irrelevant.  No, not by all, but certainly by some.  I'd like to offer a different view with an example to back it up.

I don't know how to tell this story without talking about our younger son, but make no mistake, its not meant to be about him.  He's just an example.

Our younger son is a 5-10 RHP, touches 90, but sits in the high 80s (86-88 would be normal for him).  In HS, the sat in the 85-86 ranges, maybe touching 88.  Following an 11-0 junior season, he was nearly cut from the area HS all star team because the organizing coach from another part of the area didn't see any value in a tiny pitcher with a mid-80s fastball - until the other area coaches told him 'No way, he's the best guy out there.'  He never appeared on any prospect list and he attended only one showcase which garnered no college attention whatsoever.

Following an All American junior season in college pitching in the Pac12, which was within a hair of being perfect, he was not drafted and did not appear on any pre-season All American lists.  After another successful senior college season, he was drafted late (23rd round) as a senior and is currently in double-A pitching quite well...and headed to the AZ Fall League - no small accomplishment.  No one can doubt anymore, that he's good, really good.

So how did he get 'discovered' and why, out of HS, did he even get the chance?  He fits no mold, so why?

I was talking with one of his college coaches yesterday, one of two college coaches (the other being infield dad's son who also recruited him to another college) that somehow figured it out.  But how?

Here's what his ex-college coach said:  It took some work on my part, I listened to what his HS coach said about his command, his intelligence on the mound, his competitiveness and the fact that he was a good person.  I listened to other HS coaches in the area and they said the same things.  I watched him, and then I watched him some more.  I also saw how well he did in HS.  HS performance matters no matter what others say and he played in a good league.  Dean Stotz was a very smart baseball coach and he once told me, 'Don't get fixated on velocity, watch what the hitters do, they will tell you.'  And so thats what I did.    He checked all the boxes except velocity, but everything else checked.  And so I convinced our head coach that it was worth it.

I also tell you that our son did in fact play on an elite travel team.  On that team were four future 1st round picks.  And so he got seen - but only once did his future college coach from above see him on that team. His future college saw him something like 10 times on his HS team.  His travel coach absolutely backed up the HS coach's assessments - or repeated them on his own.  No question that helped too.  But the college coach only talked about the HS team and coach.  It simply cannot be ignored.

This post is not about knocking travel teams.  It is about not ignoring your son's HS team.  It seems from the comments above that HS matters.  That being a good person within your HS program matters.  That being recommended by your HS coach, and others in the area...matters.

Don't ignore the importance of HS baseball.  Yes, it can be tough to deal with sometimes, but it is not irrelevant.  Our son would not have even gotten the chance if not for his HS coach and his HS baseball experience.

 

So an upper 80's fastball won't even get you a look at low to mid D1's?

Upper 80's will get you D1 if you pitch lefty

As a hs pitching coach, I know (beyond a doubt) that upper 80s and solid command/stuff will get you looks at low to mid D1s even as a righty...and upper 80s and exceptional stuff/command as a righty can get you looks and offers at power 5 d1s.

After following JBB son since HS, IMO this young man's rise to success has a lot more to do with his mentality/intelligence  than with his physical abilities, his travel coach or HS coach (though his was one of the best in the country). 

There is a lot to being successful in this game, hitting bombs after bombs and pitching 95 isn't the only reason.

I think that he practices what some professionals call sameness. A good example of pitchers that practice that would be  Max Scherzer, DeGrom, Chris Sale, Verlander, just to name a few. They just turn out the same performance no matter who they are pitching against, place, time of day, current team, playoff game, WS, etc.  For many players, I think they fail as they move up the ladder because they just can't handle the mental toughness needed to move forward.

Nevertheless, how one performs in HS can make a difference, as long as the player is making a conservative effort in  targeting the right program.

JMO

Nonamedad posted: 

So an upper 80's fastball won't even get you a look at low to mid D1's?

I don't think that was the point of the post...at all.  Certainly upper 80s (BTW, he was more mid than upper in HS) can generate some level of interest especially when you have great command, but there is no question the odds are stacked against you, especially if you're right-handed and 5-10.  Even after the initial two offers, the low-mid D1s just down the street from his HS said, 'Nah, we'll wait and see.'  They waited too long.

The point was that your HS program can help.  That it matters,  That it can matter a whole lot and it did in this situation.  The point was, don't ignore the possibility that your HS performance can make a difference.  I told you above that because of the physical factors, it took a bit of work and contemplation by his future college coaches.  They had to be convinced.  Through a half-hour conversation with the coach that recruited him, all he could talk about was his HS coach, other area HS coaches and what he did in HS, including (from above), "I also saw how well he did in HS.  HS performance matters no matter what others say..."

I also note that, despite what is posted on here a lot of times about coaches not having time to get to HS games, this coach watched him in HS games around 6, 7 or 8 different times.  And his school was 1,000 miles away.  Again, the point was, don't buy into the line that HS baseball doesn't matter to colleges. 

TPM is correct.  This boy has something different when it comes to mentality.  As his HS coach once told me, "He is hauntingly competitive."  He also tells me that an opposing HS coach who faced him twice a year was maybe even a bigger fan of him.  So again, in a case like this, I think the HS coach who sees him six days a week, not to mention around campus and maybe in class, has a far better lens into a kid on the X-factors than a travel coach who sees him only on game day...or maybe a little more.   And this type of insight has virtually no chance of being uncovered in a showcase.  And it is true, that he played in a great HS program.  But our older son did not - in fact he played in a terrible one.  And while he was a "prospect" at 6-3 and throwing 92/93, Stanford and other schools did indeed call his HS coach too - to find out what he was all about.

HS ball matters.  That was the point.  It can help you a great deal.  It can hurt you too, if you don't show it the proper respect.

mcloven posted:

As a hs pitching coach, I know (beyond a doubt) that upper 80s and solid command/stuff will get you looks at low to mid D1s even as a righty...and upper 80s and exceptional stuff/command as a righty can get you looks and offers at power 5 d1s.

Yup - didn't the example above say that?  (Except btw, he was mid 80s...and 5-10).  I was only explaining a different road than is often posted here (travel, travel, showcase).  Just thought it would be useful to some, to tell a story like that.  As a HS coach yourself, I would hope you would appreciate that.

My comment was directed at 3and2fastball who said you can get to D1 if you're a lefty and upper 80s...not your OP.

mcloven posted:

My comment was directed at 3and2fastball who said you can get to D1 if you're a lefty and upper 80s...not your OP.

Got it!  Thanks.  

I think a great point was just made by JBB. If ANY coach feels that you haven't shown the respect his program deserves, coaches may not care how tall or short you are, how fast or slow you throw, how far you hit the ball, how fast you run to first.

So when I read here from parents how their players coach (HS or travel, even college) is a jerk and their kids show no respect, I often wonder how far that player is really gonna go.  HS ball, regardless, is a valuable experience, even in bad programs the player needs to learn how to adjust to find the positive in the experience.

No college program wants or needs a bad apple. Because there is  always a new crop they have to choose from.

JMO

Hello all,
I have been using this site for a number of years and thank the veterans for all their helpful information!
I love JBB OP, and couldn't agree more. Everything baseball our boys do has value. I believe that sometimes when you are in the mist of things you might not even realize what that value is.
I have another example to add. Roadrunner son had a less than mediocre high school baseball experience. In fact, sports in general are not highly regarded/important in our school district. It's just the way it is. Son found this frustrating much of the time. I am certainly not here to bash our coach/district. But stuff like this was considered normal: locking the cages and HS field which prevented guys from getting extra work, not doing BP outside because “then everyone will try to hit HR”, having pregame infield warm-ups without a ball, never being permitted to practice outside, despite decent weather because “I already have my plan today.”, etc. Again I am not complaining about our experience. It is over. But to understand my point I needed to provide background information.
Son just arrived at his D1 as a 2017 grad. He is over the moon. He loves the fact that he has access practically anytime he wants to the baseball facilities. He loves the "team" atmosphere. Coaches want to work as hard as he does. Just little stuff that most would take for granted, he is excited and thankful for! My husband said that he went from “rags to riches” as far as baseball goes, lol! And it's true. His HS coach has helped him to appreciate the little things in life. I'm not sure if that was his intention, but looking back, that is what happened. Every baseball opportunity has value.

JBB,

Great post! I so enjoy following young JBB. He just competes. I listened to an interview with him the other day and was so impressed. He spoke about the team, the teams success and just finishing strong. Never once did he speak about himself even though the interviewer tried to direct the question that way. 

Speaking about the little guy throwing mid 80's. I heard a commencement speech the other day from a former Navy Seal. He talked about a team of Seals that had a boat full of guys that were 5'5" & under. The others made fun of their tiny flippers. But they seemed to come in first on most activities. He reminded the class to measure a person by the size of their heart, not the size of their flippers. Young JBB has a big heart.

Continued success to TD & congrats on the AZ Fall League!