What about "scouting services", like NCSA? I know there are others...are they worth the money?
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The actual concept of a recruiting service is OK except...two BIG factors come into play. (#1)Money becomes the controlling factor with talent and fit becoming secondary. (#2)Recruiting services have to TAKE credit when they were a non-factor just to perpetuate their “service”.
Personally I would not spend any money on a recruiting service. Here’s why. There are a set number of roster slots available for players coming out of high school going into college. For sake of discussion let’s say there are 50,000 roster slots available and each roster slot averages out to $1,000.00 in scholarship money. No matter how many recruiting services you use, showcases you attend, high school baseball teams you play for, or college camps you attend, the number of slots and scholarship dollars remain constant. COLLEGE COACHES recruit players to satisfy their needs, and they look at talent, academics, character, work ethic, and other variables controlled by the PLAYER alone. If recruiting services were to disappear, recruiting activity would remain virtually unchanged. In order for a player to be exposed to a college coach, the player and his family must do a few things. This is called exposure. The trick here is to bring the coach and the player together. Parents need to be pro-active and “arrange” for their sons to be in the places college coaches are looking. College coaches are looking at summer teams, showcases, high school teams, college camps, and asking trusted baseball people (like baseball instructors and coaches) who the “players” are.
The caring concerned baseball parent with a few dollars in his/her pocket becomes vulnerable to anyone that promises a baseball future for their son. I’ll be the first to admit you will have to spend some money... but research before you spend. Remember the only person that can guarantee your son a baseball future ...is your son.
Fungo
Personally I would not spend any money on a recruiting service. Here’s why. There are a set number of roster slots available for players coming out of high school going into college. For sake of discussion let’s say there are 50,000 roster slots available and each roster slot averages out to $1,000.00 in scholarship money. No matter how many recruiting services you use, showcases you attend, high school baseball teams you play for, or college camps you attend, the number of slots and scholarship dollars remain constant. COLLEGE COACHES recruit players to satisfy their needs, and they look at talent, academics, character, work ethic, and other variables controlled by the PLAYER alone. If recruiting services were to disappear, recruiting activity would remain virtually unchanged. In order for a player to be exposed to a college coach, the player and his family must do a few things. This is called exposure. The trick here is to bring the coach and the player together. Parents need to be pro-active and “arrange” for their sons to be in the places college coaches are looking. College coaches are looking at summer teams, showcases, high school teams, college camps, and asking trusted baseball people (like baseball instructors and coaches) who the “players” are.
The caring concerned baseball parent with a few dollars in his/her pocket becomes vulnerable to anyone that promises a baseball future for their son. I’ll be the first to admit you will have to spend some money... but research before you spend. Remember the only person that can guarantee your son a baseball future ...is your son.
Fungo
To Fungo,
Thanks for the information and the advice. Especially the part about my son guaranteeing his own future. You are truly a wealth of information! I always enjoy your posts and learn a lot from you. Thank you.
Thanks for the information and the advice. Especially the part about my son guaranteeing his own future. You are truly a wealth of information! I always enjoy your posts and learn a lot from you. Thank you.
Thank you Fungo, I/We also will put that information to use... You have been very helpful. 
Fungo,
I rate that as one of your best posts!
I rate that as one of your best posts!
My son, now a college baseball player, was signed up with NCSA. It did us no good at all. I know there is a service out there that has helped kids, and gone a different route than NCSA. We did our own recruiting. I feel my $1,200 spent with NCSA, was not worth the effort or trouble. NCSA promised a " scouting advisor" to be with us all the way through the process. He was NO WHERE to be found after he took my money. I do know of a service that our HS coach recomends based in Chicago. I do know some players that have used the service and the guy that owns the company has become a family friend. I find that a "personal" touch with the players and kids, a "advisor or counselor" is worth the money, I didnt like the way NCSA, promised and didnt deliver.
Fungo,
I read your post a couple times and generally agree with your analysis of recruiting services, but would like to discuss a different way to view the services. First, you were spot-on by saying the only person who can control an athlete's baseball future is the athlete himself. I totally agree. However, I'll use an analogy for describing recruiting services...if you were a Hollywood movie producer and you have invested tons of time and money into making a movie, you wouldn't sit around and wait for people to knock on your door and ask you if they can come in and watch your movie. Instead, the producer hires a marketing firm to promote the movie, through billboards, commercials, McDonalds cups, whatever. That is what a recruiting service does (in theory, at least the good ones). They are marketing the athlete on behalf of the family, just like the marketing service is for the movie producer. The goal for a producer is to get as many people as possible to come out and watch the movie; and the goal for the recruiting service is to help college coaches as possible know about kids (movies) that they may want to see. You are right, there is for all intents and purposes a fixed amount of roster spots, but through marketing, it is possible to increase your chances of going to a school that you actually want to play for, instead of filling a spot at the first, or in many cases only, place that shows interest in you. The movie's marketing firm cannot make the movie any better; just like a recruiting service cannot make a player better. If people had the knowledge/expectation to view recruiting services as truly marketing oriented, then maybe there wouldn't be so much disappointment when a kid doesn't find a spot, or when they find a roster spot and then say the service didn't help them. How can they tell? It's an age-old debate in any line of business - is marketing worth the investment, and how do you measure it? It does come down to the talent of the kids and the needs of college coaches. And for some kids, but certainly not all, widening the amount of exposure is their best chance to continue playing.
I read your post a couple times and generally agree with your analysis of recruiting services, but would like to discuss a different way to view the services. First, you were spot-on by saying the only person who can control an athlete's baseball future is the athlete himself. I totally agree. However, I'll use an analogy for describing recruiting services...if you were a Hollywood movie producer and you have invested tons of time and money into making a movie, you wouldn't sit around and wait for people to knock on your door and ask you if they can come in and watch your movie. Instead, the producer hires a marketing firm to promote the movie, through billboards, commercials, McDonalds cups, whatever. That is what a recruiting service does (in theory, at least the good ones). They are marketing the athlete on behalf of the family, just like the marketing service is for the movie producer. The goal for a producer is to get as many people as possible to come out and watch the movie; and the goal for the recruiting service is to help college coaches as possible know about kids (movies) that they may want to see. You are right, there is for all intents and purposes a fixed amount of roster spots, but through marketing, it is possible to increase your chances of going to a school that you actually want to play for, instead of filling a spot at the first, or in many cases only, place that shows interest in you. The movie's marketing firm cannot make the movie any better; just like a recruiting service cannot make a player better. If people had the knowledge/expectation to view recruiting services as truly marketing oriented, then maybe there wouldn't be so much disappointment when a kid doesn't find a spot, or when they find a roster spot and then say the service didn't help them. How can they tell? It's an age-old debate in any line of business - is marketing worth the investment, and how do you measure it? It does come down to the talent of the kids and the needs of college coaches. And for some kids, but certainly not all, widening the amount of exposure is their best chance to continue playing.
I lookede ionto using maybe the most popular recruiting service in our area, which I won't name. It cost about $1200 for the initial service, and more if you wanted additional features. The sales guy said some of the same things made in your movie producer analogy, and added things like they only took top-notch prospects so that the schools would give them more credibility. All made sense. Then i talked to a couple of families at our school who used the service, and then I checked the website to look at the profiles. I found kids on the site who I knew to be very average at best and they were certainly not college prospects...even one kid who was never able to even make local travel teams and was cut from the HS team his soph. year. So much for that credibility. Then I talked to the families who said that the only benefit they got was that a mailing went out to a large number of schools, primarily D3. After they shelled out the money, their contact who was very available until they signed and paid was not nearly as interested unless they wanted to pay up for additional services. I also noticed that the vast number of players they had helped went to very average D3 schools, that I know from previous personal experience would have been no problem to get on your own. I say save that money for either showcases, college exposure camps and even to help you pay your tuition after you recieve your partial scholarship. This service was not the before mentioned NCSA. You can pick and target schools on your own, send them just as good a promotional letter with stats and coach's recommendations along with your GPA, test scores, etc. Buehrle, you are right...you got to be proactive, but do it on your own and invest the difference.
I'm a little hesitant to post on this subject because it really depends on the scouting service you are talking about and what you are looking for them to do. First and foremost, I agree in general with what Fungo had to say. The general theme that the player and family are the best guarantors of a player's baseball future is true. However, buerhle56 has a point when he likens the process to that of a marketing firm. In fact, that is what a recruiting service is. Given the EXTREMELY limited recruiting resources of most D1 baseball programs (not to mention the even more paltry resources at the D2, D3, and NAIA levels), a scouting service CAN be of SOME use. A good and HONEST service will thoroughly investigate your son's playing ability, academic qualifications, and college desires to HELP you determine if there is a match (or matches) out there for you. My experience has taught me that you should expect to pay between $1000 and $1500 on such a service--depending on what you are asking them to do.
What is critical is that you find a recruiting service with a solid reputation and contacts throughout the broad range of collegiate playing levels. A good recruiting service can open your eyes to some choices or options that you may not have considered. There are a tremendous amount of lower level collegiate programs (D2-NAIA) that have reputable baseball programs and may be academic and social matches for your son. A good recruiter should be able to open your eyes to some of these possibilities, as well as help you explore D1 options if your son's talents warrant it. In many cases, these may be programs or schools that were not a part of your college search.
The state of college baseball recruiting (especially, but not limited to the lower playing levels) is so haphazard and disorganized that a GOOD recruiting service can HELP to put a player on the map or HELP to point him in a direction that he may not otherwise have considered. The combination of the inability of most colleges to recruit effectively and the inadequate assistance most HS ballplayers get from their HS coaches MAY make the investment in a recruiting service worthwhile. What you have to understand when making the investment is that you are UNLIKELY to recoup the investment in scholarship money. Hoewever, if just finding an opportunity to continue playing ball at a college program that matches your playing ability and also offers you the academic and social setting you desire is your goal, then a GOOD recruiting service may be worthy of consideration. Is this all something that can be accomplished by the family alone? I think in the extraordinary case it is, but in many cases, assistance could be very useful.
I think it is too easy to simply bash or blindly support options like recruiting services. If you understand what you are paying for and you can find a reputable recruiting service (not just a cash making clearinghouse of names), then a service such as this is definitely worth considering. Unfortunately, college baseball recruiting is not as thorough as basketball or football. However, on the plus side, the determined baseball player does have an opportunity to find a niche for himself that is not as readily available in the 2 major college sports.
With all this said, I still hesitate to make a positive or negative recommendation about recruiting services in general. Like any aspect of baseball or life, the bad seeds can spoil the names of everyone. A recommendation would really depend on the service you use and what you expect of them.
As a postcript, I am NOT affiliated with, nor do I run, a recruiting service. However, I do know of a reputable service in the northern burbs that has worked with a number of local athletes. If anyone is interested, they can PM me.
What is critical is that you find a recruiting service with a solid reputation and contacts throughout the broad range of collegiate playing levels. A good recruiting service can open your eyes to some choices or options that you may not have considered. There are a tremendous amount of lower level collegiate programs (D2-NAIA) that have reputable baseball programs and may be academic and social matches for your son. A good recruiter should be able to open your eyes to some of these possibilities, as well as help you explore D1 options if your son's talents warrant it. In many cases, these may be programs or schools that were not a part of your college search.
The state of college baseball recruiting (especially, but not limited to the lower playing levels) is so haphazard and disorganized that a GOOD recruiting service can HELP to put a player on the map or HELP to point him in a direction that he may not otherwise have considered. The combination of the inability of most colleges to recruit effectively and the inadequate assistance most HS ballplayers get from their HS coaches MAY make the investment in a recruiting service worthwhile. What you have to understand when making the investment is that you are UNLIKELY to recoup the investment in scholarship money. Hoewever, if just finding an opportunity to continue playing ball at a college program that matches your playing ability and also offers you the academic and social setting you desire is your goal, then a GOOD recruiting service may be worthy of consideration. Is this all something that can be accomplished by the family alone? I think in the extraordinary case it is, but in many cases, assistance could be very useful.
I think it is too easy to simply bash or blindly support options like recruiting services. If you understand what you are paying for and you can find a reputable recruiting service (not just a cash making clearinghouse of names), then a service such as this is definitely worth considering. Unfortunately, college baseball recruiting is not as thorough as basketball or football. However, on the plus side, the determined baseball player does have an opportunity to find a niche for himself that is not as readily available in the 2 major college sports.
With all this said, I still hesitate to make a positive or negative recommendation about recruiting services in general. Like any aspect of baseball or life, the bad seeds can spoil the names of everyone. A recommendation would really depend on the service you use and what you expect of them.
As a postcript, I am NOT affiliated with, nor do I run, a recruiting service. However, I do know of a reputable service in the northern burbs that has worked with a number of local athletes. If anyone is interested, they can PM me.
You know where 99% of the stuff "recruiting services" send to colleges ends up...The circular file!!
I know quite a few college coaches at big time D1 programs that have a garbage can set up below their office fax machine for this exact stuff.
The letters and other stuff is handled by an intern who seperates it into players on the recruiting list and players not on....very little of the "not on the list" mail even gets opened.
No colege coach in the nation is going to offer you an athletic scholarship without 1)Seeing you in person 2)Talking to a high level pro scout in you area who has seen you
No "recruiting service" will help you with either of these two things....
You can easily do the work/contact yourself...
SAVE YOUR MONEY!!!
I know quite a few college coaches at big time D1 programs that have a garbage can set up below their office fax machine for this exact stuff.
The letters and other stuff is handled by an intern who seperates it into players on the recruiting list and players not on....very little of the "not on the list" mail even gets opened.
No colege coach in the nation is going to offer you an athletic scholarship without 1)Seeing you in person 2)Talking to a high level pro scout in you area who has seen you
No "recruiting service" will help you with either of these two things....
You can easily do the work/contact yourself...
SAVE YOUR MONEY!!!
Blazer25,
Your comments are understood but I think you are missing the point as to the nature of a recruiting service. First, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the purpose of a recruiting service is marketing. Do you think everyone that gets a McDonalds cup with Fantastic Four on it will run out and watch the movie? No. Same hold true for college coaches. It is impossible to expect that everyone that receives a kid's information will read it and follow-up on it. You mention that 99% gets tossed out(how you can measure that is impossible), but 1% might just be enough in some marketing campaigns. Think about it...if a kid's information goes to 600 schools and 6 show interest, he has just increased his odds. From the people that I've talked to over the years, often times kids get some responses from 3-5% of schools that receive their information. In the 600 school example, that's 18-30 schools. Second, there are well over a thousand collegiate baseball programs in the country. It is not the main intent of a recruiting service to work only with "big-time DI" programs or coaches. That does happen sometimes, I think, but that is not the sweet spot for these services. The kids that are blue chippers and bona fide DI players will have plenty of other opportunities to get noticed. But what about lesser DI programs and DII, DIII, NAIA, and JUCO. Baseball recruiting budgets for these schools are tiny, and these coaches (some, not all) often appreciate a lead or two on potential players. Lastly, you mention that a coach would not offer a scholarship without seeing a kid or having had discussed that player with a scout. Of course! Who would? But I do not know of any service that says you can get a scholarship simply from some stats and personal info that is mailed to the coach. You are not recognizing this as only the first step in the process. Once a coach knows about a kid, then the normal recruiting process begins, phone calls, video review, game attendance, visits, etc. Then it is up to the kid play well, keep his grades up, and show interest in the school - at that point, there is not much else a recruiting service or anyone else can do for him. If any service says you can simply get an offer when the information is mailed to a coach, that would be a shame. The goal is to get on the radar screen of a coach, and the athlete and his family take it from there. Again, my take on these services is that they offer marketing, and like I've always said - not every college coach or kid needs it, but there are many who can realize at least some benefit.
Your comments are understood but I think you are missing the point as to the nature of a recruiting service. First, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the purpose of a recruiting service is marketing. Do you think everyone that gets a McDonalds cup with Fantastic Four on it will run out and watch the movie? No. Same hold true for college coaches. It is impossible to expect that everyone that receives a kid's information will read it and follow-up on it. You mention that 99% gets tossed out(how you can measure that is impossible), but 1% might just be enough in some marketing campaigns. Think about it...if a kid's information goes to 600 schools and 6 show interest, he has just increased his odds. From the people that I've talked to over the years, often times kids get some responses from 3-5% of schools that receive their information. In the 600 school example, that's 18-30 schools. Second, there are well over a thousand collegiate baseball programs in the country. It is not the main intent of a recruiting service to work only with "big-time DI" programs or coaches. That does happen sometimes, I think, but that is not the sweet spot for these services. The kids that are blue chippers and bona fide DI players will have plenty of other opportunities to get noticed. But what about lesser DI programs and DII, DIII, NAIA, and JUCO. Baseball recruiting budgets for these schools are tiny, and these coaches (some, not all) often appreciate a lead or two on potential players. Lastly, you mention that a coach would not offer a scholarship without seeing a kid or having had discussed that player with a scout. Of course! Who would? But I do not know of any service that says you can get a scholarship simply from some stats and personal info that is mailed to the coach. You are not recognizing this as only the first step in the process. Once a coach knows about a kid, then the normal recruiting process begins, phone calls, video review, game attendance, visits, etc. Then it is up to the kid play well, keep his grades up, and show interest in the school - at that point, there is not much else a recruiting service or anyone else can do for him. If any service says you can simply get an offer when the information is mailed to a coach, that would be a shame. The goal is to get on the radar screen of a coach, and the athlete and his family take it from there. Again, my take on these services is that they offer marketing, and like I've always said - not every college coach or kid needs it, but there are many who can realize at least some benefit.
Well,
That is certainly one way to look at it! Blazer25 apparently has ther answer for everyone--because he "knows" a number of college coaches at the "D1" level. Blazer25 has managed in a short post to hit on two of the worst aspects of these boards. One, the rampant absolutism that runs throughout many posts--like the willingness to dismiss ALL of whatever is being discussed because of a bad personal experience, some amazing "all-knowing" powers, or some hidden agenda. Two, the anonymous nature of the boards allows people to make unsubstantiated claims about who or what they know.
If someone had carefully read the posts above, he would know that no one had blanketly recommended the use of recruiting services. If he had carefully read my previous post, he would understand that I only suggested that a GOOD recruiting service (one where your rep has ACTUAL contacts with college coaches) can HELP you in the college search--much like a college counselor at a high school can HELP you in your general college search. If you rely on a recruiting service to do all the work and get you recruited, you WILL be sadly disappointed.
Blazer25 (and those others) that would suggest that you can do ALL the work yourself ARE correct--you certainly can. However, with the understanding that not everyone has as much time on their hands as others do, a GOOD recruiting service can be another TOOL in the college search process--just as any consulting service in any line of business would be.
Blazer25 is also correct when he asserts that many college coaches do throw most (if not all) of the unsolicited, mass-mailed (or distributed) information they receive in the garbage. However, if your recruiter has actual personal contacts with coaches (and MANY do) then MANY college coaches will be open to looking at or discussing the information. Those coaches might also be put in touch with someone who would not otherwise have appeared on their radar screen without being put there by a recruiter. This is ESPECIALLY (although not limited) true at the D2-NAIA level. In these cases, the coaches have almost NO scouting or recruiting budgets and almost NO time or staff to do the work. As a result, they are almost exclusively limited to contacting prospects somewhat local to their school and who are not eligible or talented enough to be recruited by D1 schools.
Blazer25 is correct when he asserts that most (if not all) college coaches would not offer you a spot on their team without seeing you. However, if a recruiter puts you on their map, and the coach becomes aware that you might be interested, he may then find a way to have you scouted. You may be playing in a tournament or game within a reasonable distance from his school that he might not otherwise have attended, but now will because he is now aware of your interest.
Finally, if Blazer25 had carefully read the posts above he would understand that no one indicated that a reputable college recruiter would make it more likely that you got scholarship money. The truth is that there isn't much scholarship money in college baseball to be given. Only the most talented prospects get much at all, the rest may get book money or a small amount if anything. So, as I noted above, if you are using a recruiting service for that, you would be wasting your money. However, if you just want the opportunity to continue playing, they may be able to HELP open your eyes to some school options you may not have considered. And if they have solid personal contacts, they may be able to help open the door for you.
The KEY word is HELP. The reputable services are simply a TOOL. If you have the time and patience to do everything yourself, it can be done--however, since not everyone does, a reputable service may be able to help with the process.
You alone are able to determine if the investment you are going to make in a recruiting service is worth the work they are going to do. For some, it will be, others would rather do that work themselves. But, despite what the dismissive critics may say, it is worth INVESTIGATING wether such a service would be of use to YOU. Don't let others make your decisions for you, ESPECIALLY those you don't know.
That is certainly one way to look at it! Blazer25 apparently has ther answer for everyone--because he "knows" a number of college coaches at the "D1" level. Blazer25 has managed in a short post to hit on two of the worst aspects of these boards. One, the rampant absolutism that runs throughout many posts--like the willingness to dismiss ALL of whatever is being discussed because of a bad personal experience, some amazing "all-knowing" powers, or some hidden agenda. Two, the anonymous nature of the boards allows people to make unsubstantiated claims about who or what they know.
If someone had carefully read the posts above, he would know that no one had blanketly recommended the use of recruiting services. If he had carefully read my previous post, he would understand that I only suggested that a GOOD recruiting service (one where your rep has ACTUAL contacts with college coaches) can HELP you in the college search--much like a college counselor at a high school can HELP you in your general college search. If you rely on a recruiting service to do all the work and get you recruited, you WILL be sadly disappointed.
Blazer25 (and those others) that would suggest that you can do ALL the work yourself ARE correct--you certainly can. However, with the understanding that not everyone has as much time on their hands as others do, a GOOD recruiting service can be another TOOL in the college search process--just as any consulting service in any line of business would be.
Blazer25 is also correct when he asserts that many college coaches do throw most (if not all) of the unsolicited, mass-mailed (or distributed) information they receive in the garbage. However, if your recruiter has actual personal contacts with coaches (and MANY do) then MANY college coaches will be open to looking at or discussing the information. Those coaches might also be put in touch with someone who would not otherwise have appeared on their radar screen without being put there by a recruiter. This is ESPECIALLY (although not limited) true at the D2-NAIA level. In these cases, the coaches have almost NO scouting or recruiting budgets and almost NO time or staff to do the work. As a result, they are almost exclusively limited to contacting prospects somewhat local to their school and who are not eligible or talented enough to be recruited by D1 schools.
Blazer25 is correct when he asserts that most (if not all) college coaches would not offer you a spot on their team without seeing you. However, if a recruiter puts you on their map, and the coach becomes aware that you might be interested, he may then find a way to have you scouted. You may be playing in a tournament or game within a reasonable distance from his school that he might not otherwise have attended, but now will because he is now aware of your interest.
Finally, if Blazer25 had carefully read the posts above he would understand that no one indicated that a reputable college recruiter would make it more likely that you got scholarship money. The truth is that there isn't much scholarship money in college baseball to be given. Only the most talented prospects get much at all, the rest may get book money or a small amount if anything. So, as I noted above, if you are using a recruiting service for that, you would be wasting your money. However, if you just want the opportunity to continue playing, they may be able to HELP open your eyes to some school options you may not have considered. And if they have solid personal contacts, they may be able to help open the door for you.
The KEY word is HELP. The reputable services are simply a TOOL. If you have the time and patience to do everything yourself, it can be done--however, since not everyone does, a reputable service may be able to help with the process.
You alone are able to determine if the investment you are going to make in a recruiting service is worth the work they are going to do. For some, it will be, others would rather do that work themselves. But, despite what the dismissive critics may say, it is worth INVESTIGATING wether such a service would be of use to YOU. Don't let others make your decisions for you, ESPECIALLY those you don't know.
Sorry for my harshness guys but it is a waste of money...
Truth is the majority of schools that use these "services" to compile recruiting lists are non-scholarship schools anyway. You can tryout when you get to campus or pick up the phone and call the coach yourself.
Since you guys like analogies.... Here’s one.... A really good student has a 3.7 GPA, 1210 SAT and wants to study marine biology. Parents want the best for little Johnny so they hire a college "headhunter" to find a school that would be a good match for Johnny's scholarly talents. They pay $1500 and are awarded $500 in academic scholarships at Marine Tech U.... sound like a good investment?
Spend you money on a reputable showcase (Perfect Game or Other) or attend a few FREE pro tryout camps. Possibly play for a summer or fall travel team. That's all the radar screen blips you'll need.
Don't pay someone to address letters, put stamps on them and send them out for you...you can do that yourself
Truth is the majority of schools that use these "services" to compile recruiting lists are non-scholarship schools anyway. You can tryout when you get to campus or pick up the phone and call the coach yourself.
Since you guys like analogies.... Here’s one.... A really good student has a 3.7 GPA, 1210 SAT and wants to study marine biology. Parents want the best for little Johnny so they hire a college "headhunter" to find a school that would be a good match for Johnny's scholarly talents. They pay $1500 and are awarded $500 in academic scholarships at Marine Tech U.... sound like a good investment?
Spend you money on a reputable showcase (Perfect Game or Other) or attend a few FREE pro tryout camps. Possibly play for a summer or fall travel team. That's all the radar screen blips you'll need.
Don't pay someone to address letters, put stamps on them and send them out for you...you can do that yourself
Once again. blazer25 has completely whiffed on the whole concept. He is right about one thing, if all a recruiting service is doing for you is licking stamps, then anyone can do that themself--but, then they wouldn't be a reputable service and they would OBVIOUSLY not be the services the buerhle and I are talking about. And, as I already mentioned, if you are looking to strictly recover your investment with scholarship money, then a recruiting service is NOT for you, because it will likely NOT happen.
But, if you are looking for someone to help you explore options you might not be aware of or easily find yourself, then a reputable firm can be of use--plain and simple.
I hate to be absolute about anything, but I believe blazer25 to be dead wrong when he says that attending a few tryout camps or showcases are all you need. The pro tryout camps are for the most part a waste for those interested in attending a college to play ball. While it is true that college scouts may be in attendance, the look you get at a pro camp is very tiny--you rarely get much of an opportunity to do anything. And, like all pro camps, most things are measured on how you look athletically--you rarely get a chance to demonstrate any skills in an actual game situation (although this is changing a BIT). Showcase camps are a better option--and there are reputable ones out there (like perfect game which I have sent some of my players to), however they (like recruiting services) are money making ventures also--and may not put you in front of the schools you are interested or capable of attending and playing at.
The showcases combined with a reputable recruiting service (or ALOT of diligent work on your own--far more than just licking stamps) might be the best way to enhance your chances.
The truth is, while college coaches often throw away unsolicited information from recruiters (which blazer25 correctly pointed out), they just as often throw away unsolicited information, video tapes, etc. from individuals working on their own (which blazer25 failed to mention).
PLAIN and SIMPLE, any way you go about it, if you really want to play ball in college and are NOT one of the top ballplayers, you are going to have to do ALOT of leg work on your own. The question for you is wether you are willing to fork over the cash for a recruiting service to help you. The answer to that question obviously depends on your financial situation and how much leg work you are willing to do on your own.
Those questions can only be answered by you. ALWAYS beware of anyone making blanket recommendations in favor of or against things without knowing your particular situation--especially when you have no clue who they really are.
But, if you are looking for someone to help you explore options you might not be aware of or easily find yourself, then a reputable firm can be of use--plain and simple.
I hate to be absolute about anything, but I believe blazer25 to be dead wrong when he says that attending a few tryout camps or showcases are all you need. The pro tryout camps are for the most part a waste for those interested in attending a college to play ball. While it is true that college scouts may be in attendance, the look you get at a pro camp is very tiny--you rarely get much of an opportunity to do anything. And, like all pro camps, most things are measured on how you look athletically--you rarely get a chance to demonstrate any skills in an actual game situation (although this is changing a BIT). Showcase camps are a better option--and there are reputable ones out there (like perfect game which I have sent some of my players to), however they (like recruiting services) are money making ventures also--and may not put you in front of the schools you are interested or capable of attending and playing at.
The showcases combined with a reputable recruiting service (or ALOT of diligent work on your own--far more than just licking stamps) might be the best way to enhance your chances.
The truth is, while college coaches often throw away unsolicited information from recruiters (which blazer25 correctly pointed out), they just as often throw away unsolicited information, video tapes, etc. from individuals working on their own (which blazer25 failed to mention).
PLAIN and SIMPLE, any way you go about it, if you really want to play ball in college and are NOT one of the top ballplayers, you are going to have to do ALOT of leg work on your own. The question for you is wether you are willing to fork over the cash for a recruiting service to help you. The answer to that question obviously depends on your financial situation and how much leg work you are willing to do on your own.
Those questions can only be answered by you. ALWAYS beware of anyone making blanket recommendations in favor of or against things without knowing your particular situation--especially when you have no clue who they really are.
i didn't feel like reading all of your posts but i went through doyle baseball combine and was selected to go to their showcase down in florida. it didn't do much for me in a recruiting standpoint but it did give me good experience to play against some good competition from all over the country and they have good instructors. if you have the money i would send him to it. the other recruiting services you have to watch out for when i was in high school one of them wanted to know what my parents thought of my talents, complete waste of money
quote:And, as I already mentioned, if you are looking to strictly recover your investment with scholarship money, then a recruiting service is NOT for you, because it will likely NOT happen.
This quote should be all a parent needs to see the "value" of a recruiting service.
quote:The pro tryout camps are for the most part a waste for those interested in attending a college to play ball.
I'd have to say that's the worst advice I've ever seen given on this message board.
Every college baseball questionnaire you fill out will ask you "Which professional scout in your area knows you best?" or something to that effect. Hard to fill in those blanks when you haven't put yourself in front of the right people. Not to mention the fact...what have you WASTED!?! Time!? It's a day on a baseball field and it's FREE!! Beware of someone telling you that's a waste.
quote:The truth is, while college coaches often throw away unsolicited information from recruiters (which blazer25 correctly pointed out), they just as often throw away unsolicited information, video tapes, etc. from individuals working on their own (which blazer25 failed to mention).
College baseball recruiting and baseball in general uses the vast baseball network of TRUSTED people in all parts of the country. Most if not all area scouts are in that loop. Some associate or part time scouts are as well. Maybe 1% of the recruiting service guys are. They may claim to be and sell you that they are but very few pro and college scouts are going to share info with someone from a recruiting service.
quote:ALWAYS beware of anyone making blanket recommendations in favor of or against things without knowing your particular situation--especially when you have no clue who they really are.
I would say always be aware of someone telling you to fork out $1000's of dollars for work that you can do yourself personally but that's just me...
Blazer - to me, you are still missing the point. Do you think all DIII or NAIA coaches are keyed in to all scouts in every area. Some are, but very few. There are over 1300 total collegiate baseball programs in the country - 285 are D1 (only approx 20%). The smaller school coaches have an obligation to help put butts in seats in the classrooms to help keep their respective universities afloat - and all are not holding out for the advice from pro scouts. Some are happy just to get questionnaires returned to them, especially from out of state kids. And what about the above average, but not exceptional kid that is perhaps All-Conference, but doesn't get invited to a pro tryout camp, yet wants to play in college. Does this mean that he should just hang up his cleats even though there a 1000 schools out there at DII and smaller, each with various amounts of aid/scholarship money available? What you say about the 'network' is somewhat true, but really only applies to bigger college programs and draftable kids, which only represent a small piece of the landscape. The trusted part of that network you mention is debatable, since evaluation is almost entirely subjective, and everyone involved has their own agenda. Camps and showcases can be important "tools" (as another posted phrased), just like a recruiting service - and many showcases come with a fee of their own. Lastly, your final comment stating that only about 1% of recruitng service personnel are scouts. I have two comments. First, so what? It is a marketing business that should be getting their info from coaches and yes, even scouts, not necesarrily evaluating the kids on their own. Second, I try to use examples with accurate numbers where possible to keep things at a realistic level for everyone that might read this. However, you find it acceptable to try to maintain this discussion with unsubstantiated numbers and percentages that are neither productive nor accurate. As I read this post, I know I sound supportive of recruiting services. I was on the fence before, and was just sharing what I knew from those involved. But your attempts at articultating recruiting services as a waste of money has caused me take this position; because everyone you say is pure conjecture on your part.
This is a pretty interesting thread that I intentionally avoided reading until now, and I will add only a few of my thoughts, from first hand experience.
Fungo, your post above is fabulous; it is the main reason I continued reading the thread.
As a former NAIA head coach, for sixteen years, I have experience with recruiting and with scouting services. Small college coaches work their tails off and see hundreds of games, including tournaments, attend showcases and pro tryout camps, etc., each year.
Coaches are deluged with mail from recruiting services. Only one person from a recruiting service ever contacted me by phone. At least one guy got the idea; I would guess that the rest of them are in it for what it provides them: an INCOME! Do any of you know anybody in the marketing industry (for any products) who is not in it for the money? Probably not.
College coaches work harder than the marketers will tell you. There are some quotes in the posts that I read, regarding DII, DIII, and NAIA coaches that just are not true. Those coaches drive to see players, and most of the time they have more names on their lists then there is time to see them all. In other words, they already can't see all the players they need to see--without adding the new names they may (or may not) get from scouting services. It is often a waste of time to leaf through all the pages a coach receives in the mail.
Since I 'retired' from the head coaching position I had two years ago, I have personally assisted over a dozen student-athletes in their college searches, taking NO money. I did receive some nice meals, though!!! Those kids are now all playing sports at all levels (DI, II, III, JUCO, and NAIA). They and their families are very appreciative of my assistance.
Many small school coaches do network with major university coaches and with ML scouts. That is a great assistance in recruiting. As in all professions, some people network better than others.
There was an inference regarding small school coaches who "have an obligation to help put butts in seats in the classrooms". How much playing time is there available in thos programs for guys who are not 'regulars'?
I did not plan to write this much. I am not going to say they are a waste of time and money. There are people with too much time and/or money on their hands anyway.
Fungo, your post above is fabulous; it is the main reason I continued reading the thread.
As a former NAIA head coach, for sixteen years, I have experience with recruiting and with scouting services. Small college coaches work their tails off and see hundreds of games, including tournaments, attend showcases and pro tryout camps, etc., each year.
Coaches are deluged with mail from recruiting services. Only one person from a recruiting service ever contacted me by phone. At least one guy got the idea; I would guess that the rest of them are in it for what it provides them: an INCOME! Do any of you know anybody in the marketing industry (for any products) who is not in it for the money? Probably not.
College coaches work harder than the marketers will tell you. There are some quotes in the posts that I read, regarding DII, DIII, and NAIA coaches that just are not true. Those coaches drive to see players, and most of the time they have more names on their lists then there is time to see them all. In other words, they already can't see all the players they need to see--without adding the new names they may (or may not) get from scouting services. It is often a waste of time to leaf through all the pages a coach receives in the mail.
Since I 'retired' from the head coaching position I had two years ago, I have personally assisted over a dozen student-athletes in their college searches, taking NO money. I did receive some nice meals, though!!! Those kids are now all playing sports at all levels (DI, II, III, JUCO, and NAIA). They and their families are very appreciative of my assistance.
Many small school coaches do network with major university coaches and with ML scouts. That is a great assistance in recruiting. As in all professions, some people network better than others.
There was an inference regarding small school coaches who "have an obligation to help put butts in seats in the classrooms". How much playing time is there available in thos programs for guys who are not 'regulars'?
I did not plan to write this much. I am not going to say they are a waste of time and money. There are people with too much time and/or money on their hands anyway.
I will AGAIN attempt to dispel some misconceptions...
Almost all pro tryout camps are open to anyone...no invite necessary.
I never said they weren't scouts....I did say they weren't part of the trusted network that college coaches use to find players. And Yes all college coaches big and small use a network...to suggest otherwise is silly.
If they run successful programs they are!!
You don't need a recruiting "service" to help you find a D3 school to play at! There's no athletic aid there anyway! Find a school that fits your academic needs and call the coach yourself!! Ask a pro scout in your area who the top D3, D2 or NAIA programs are (another wonderful reason to attend FREE pro tryout camps). There are easily 10 things you can do in about 2-3 hours time that will replace the $1500 "service" that you're suggesting is a good idea.
Lastly you and some others suggest that college coaches don't have the time or resources to find the players they need...I would say that is a HUGE insult to the hundreds of hard working college coaches out there. Maybe it's not that they didn't have the time to find player X but that player X wasn't the caliber of kid/player that they were looking for. Sometimes that is a hard pill to swallow...but no amount of $ or recruiting service marketing is going to change that fact.
quote:And what about the above average, but not exceptional kid that is perhaps All-Conference, but doesn't get invited to a pro tryout camp, yet wants to play in college.
Almost all pro tryout camps are open to anyone...no invite necessary.
quote:Lastly, your final comment stating that only about 1% of recruiting service personnel are scouts.
I never said they weren't scouts....I did say they weren't part of the trusted network that college coaches use to find players. And Yes all college coaches big and small use a network...to suggest otherwise is silly.
quote:Do you think all DIII or NAIA coaches are keyed in to all scouts in every area. Some are, but very few
If they run successful programs they are!!
You don't need a recruiting "service" to help you find a D3 school to play at! There's no athletic aid there anyway! Find a school that fits your academic needs and call the coach yourself!! Ask a pro scout in your area who the top D3, D2 or NAIA programs are (another wonderful reason to attend FREE pro tryout camps). There are easily 10 things you can do in about 2-3 hours time that will replace the $1500 "service" that you're suggesting is a good idea.
Lastly you and some others suggest that college coaches don't have the time or resources to find the players they need...I would say that is a HUGE insult to the hundreds of hard working college coaches out there. Maybe it's not that they didn't have the time to find player X but that player X wasn't the caliber of kid/player that they were looking for. Sometimes that is a hard pill to swallow...but no amount of $ or recruiting service marketing is going to change that fact.
Coach, that was a wonderful and well-thought out response and I appreciate it very much. You have some real-life examples that you have shared with this board. My comments were not intended to diminish the effort of the small school coaches and I apologize if you were offended by that part of my post. There is just less staff, dollars, etc., available. When I look at Showcases that I've seen in that past couple years, there are definitely small schools there, but not nearly a proportionate amount to the larger programs - 80% of schools are DII and under, yet that has not the mix of coaches in attendance that I have seen, where most in attendance are DI. I've talked to many of the various services over the years, and from my perspective, the good ones are those who do pick up the phone, or are out at showcases or camps talking with coaches like yourself. The actual mailings are understandably annoying for some guys. I didn't mention that particular thing in my past posts because they were lengthy enough! I don't believe anyone discounts that there is some money involved for the services, but I'll still say for the right kid/familiy, in the right situation, a good service with an established history/network with college coaches can help some people. It's wonderful that you have continued to help kids keep find places to play. That is certainly very admirable. Not everyone has a resource like yourself, and I've heard stories of parents that decide they are too busy too get involved, or simply don't want to deal with it, thus the services is a fit for them. Either way, great post, and I appreciate your thoughts.
Blazer - I understand your thoughts and am enjoying this little debate. This will be my last post on the subject because at the end of the day, a service may help some kids and not others. Buyers should research the service and know the history. Quickly responding to your latest points, and I'll move on. 1) Pro tryout camps; you're right, usually they are not invite, I was referring to showcases and those types of things. Some kids don't know how they fit or have the confidence for the tryouts though (in my experience). 2) the 1% scout comment, I didn't explain my thoughts well. What I wanted to say was the good services are in this "network" at some level, even though they may or may not be able to evaluate the talent themselves. This is done through contacting coaches personally and attending the same events. There are some out there that are not in the network, I agree. 3)DIII and NAIA coaches; I did not mean to in any way offend the effort or strategy of those coaches. Hell, they are 80% of the college game, and I recognize and appreciate that. I was only trying to make the point that they can't get to as large of a geographic area because there are often some constraints. Not that they aren't trying or don't want to; just that there are limitations, as there are at any level. I know they work their tales off. I've talked a lot about marketing in my posts, but you used a word that is equally important - network. Coaches and scouts do have strong networks and my final point is that a good recruitng service should have and continue to grow those same personal relationships. At that point, marketing and network are somewhat synonomous and everyone is pointed in the same direction. If the service cannot show you evidence of that personal network, then I would keep looking. Like I said, I was never on really either side of this topic, just enjoying getting the discussion out. Thanks for the debate, it was fun.
Collegiate Sports Marketing and Recruiting is the service I recomend. Ive heard nothing but great things about them. A friend of mine used them after I told him about my experience with NCSA. Ive seen nothing but good things come out of this company. PM me if you want the info
Guys,
I know I sound harsh and I seem to see things in black and white.
Let me just say that I've seen a lot of hard working, intelligent people get "sold" on these things when it really wasn't necessary.
I say save you money for a top-level showcase, like the ones Perfect Game runs. Their recommendation and contacts can do more for you than any recruiting service.
"Baseball people" trust other "baseball people" and it is a pretty tough nut to crack.
Companies like Perfect Game and some others have worked hard to earn the trust of the right baseball people to help kids that attend their events (and many who don't as well)
Get yourself to an event run by one of these companies and you'll have a much more enjoyable experience.
I know I sound harsh and I seem to see things in black and white.
Let me just say that I've seen a lot of hard working, intelligent people get "sold" on these things when it really wasn't necessary.
I say save you money for a top-level showcase, like the ones Perfect Game runs. Their recommendation and contacts can do more for you than any recruiting service.
"Baseball people" trust other "baseball people" and it is a pretty tough nut to crack.
Companies like Perfect Game and some others have worked hard to earn the trust of the right baseball people to help kids that attend their events (and many who don't as well)
Get yourself to an event run by one of these companies and you'll have a much more enjoyable experience.
There are already a number of thoughtful posts on this subject, I suggest anyone interested read the board thoroughly. There already is alot of solid information posted on the subject.
Blazer25 is correct in naming PerfectGame as an outstanding and reputable showcase organization, likewise there are some reputable recruiting services. However, the 1% figure stated in a previous post bares some discrimination. I try to stay informed on subjects such as this, and I am unaware of any significant research into how many recruiters are "in the loop." The number could be correct, but I do not know of any research to support it.
As for the money making aspect of recruiting services, there is no doubt profit is an objective--just as it is for the showcase organizations or instructional facilities. If they are providing value for their fees, there is nothing wrong with them making a profit.
There will always be disagreement as to the judgement of the value of their services, I don't want to be put in the position of defending a service I am for the most part ambivalent about. I have had past players who have done the work themselves, and gone on to play college ball. Likewise, I have had past players who have used a service and found it worth their money.
I guess the bottom line for me is invetsigate for YOURSELF, UNDERSTAND what you are paying for, and determine if it is of value to YOU.
And, as always best of luck to anyone who wishes to play college ball. If you are diligent enough and have some talent, there is likely a spot for you somewhere. I watched a former HS head coach I worked for find a spot on a college team (as a player) for one of his team managers.
Blazer25 is correct in naming PerfectGame as an outstanding and reputable showcase organization, likewise there are some reputable recruiting services. However, the 1% figure stated in a previous post bares some discrimination. I try to stay informed on subjects such as this, and I am unaware of any significant research into how many recruiters are "in the loop." The number could be correct, but I do not know of any research to support it.
As for the money making aspect of recruiting services, there is no doubt profit is an objective--just as it is for the showcase organizations or instructional facilities. If they are providing value for their fees, there is nothing wrong with them making a profit.
There will always be disagreement as to the judgement of the value of their services, I don't want to be put in the position of defending a service I am for the most part ambivalent about. I have had past players who have done the work themselves, and gone on to play college ball. Likewise, I have had past players who have used a service and found it worth their money.
I guess the bottom line for me is invetsigate for YOURSELF, UNDERSTAND what you are paying for, and determine if it is of value to YOU.
And, as always best of luck to anyone who wishes to play college ball. If you are diligent enough and have some talent, there is likely a spot for you somewhere. I watched a former HS head coach I worked for find a spot on a college team (as a player) for one of his team managers.
TeamOne is another strong Showcase (see other postings about TeamOne)
I might as well add my two cents on recruiting services.
It is a personal decision that only you can decide if it is right for your family.
We were unsure how to proceed when we started this process. For us it was good to have someone with experience and coaching contacts and the ability to have them pick up the phone and speak to the coach. It also was good to have an evaluation done so we knew what level of program to look at.
Can you do a lot if of the stuff yourself, absolutely! and with a recruiting service your son should still be the one making initial contacts with schools.
If you are using a service just to "max out" scholarship money, you probably are doing it for the wrong reasons. If you want to maximize your sons opportunities to play college ball and have options than you should think about it and see if its right for you.
For us they laid out the groundwork, and the showcases further enhanced the interest.
I might as well add my two cents on recruiting services.
It is a personal decision that only you can decide if it is right for your family.
We were unsure how to proceed when we started this process. For us it was good to have someone with experience and coaching contacts and the ability to have them pick up the phone and speak to the coach. It also was good to have an evaluation done so we knew what level of program to look at.
Can you do a lot if of the stuff yourself, absolutely! and with a recruiting service your son should still be the one making initial contacts with schools.
If you are using a service just to "max out" scholarship money, you probably are doing it for the wrong reasons. If you want to maximize your sons opportunities to play college ball and have options than you should think about it and see if its right for you.
For us they laid out the groundwork, and the showcases further enhanced the interest.
Said perfectly Novice, best of luck to your son.
Novice, a perfect anology. Bravo
Thanks K13 and HitNrun2
The recruiting service we are working with for our 07 grad also provides personal coaching/training. I feel like the advisor really knows my son after working with him for 2 hours weekly on his hitting. He is helping my son focus on appropriate colleges because he knows a bit about his skill level. It is expensive.
Newcomer -
Paying for coaching lessons is one thing. Paying for someone to market your son is totally different. I'm not sure I would be comfortable mixing the two. Much of what parents and players need to market their skills to college coaches is available for free on this site.
Just my two cents. Make sure you are getting real value for your dollar. 
Paying for coaching lessons is one thing. Paying for someone to market your son is totally different. I'm not sure I would be comfortable mixing the two. Much of what parents and players need to market their skills to college coaches is available for free on this site.
Just my two cents.
Make sure you are getting real value for your dollar.
It sems to me that places like Full Package coach and do some of what recruiting services do. They have connections and run showcases. The kids in their programs get publicity in their magazine. The more recruits the get placed in college and the pros, the more people are drawn to their programs. It all feeds on itself and can work for your kid if he is in the program. That is why coaching lessons and recruiting help can go hand in hand.
bballdad1954:
I agree. These programs do help you get the exposure needed to make the next jump up.
1954? Is that significant?
I agree. These programs do help you get the exposure needed to make the next jump up.
1954? Is that significant?
Novice and K13...thank you for your insight and personal experiences with this matter.
Being new to this website, I am not new to this subject. I really like the point that was made by K13 that recruiting companies are not for everyone, but they are to be used as an AID in the recruiting process and that if you are using them to get a scholarship and not get your son recruited that you are wasting your time and money.
I have a friend who is an ex-major league player and also coached college baseball. He started a service that Yes he is in it to make some money, as he has operating expenses and has to pay bills at home, but he also has is heart in it as he was once a player himself. Like K13 said, if the players can benefit from the service, who cares if the company is making money. Should we stop using cell phones because the cell phone companies are making money? I do feel that like anything else in this world, there are always a few bad apples that spoil it for everyone else. For every couple of bad services, ther are some legitimate services who do care about their players.
Like has been said, and I will repeat, do the recruiting work yourself and if you find that you are in a position where you can both afford a recuiter AND your player needs that added exposure, I say go for it.
My rally call is that we not let one or two bad experiences ruin it for everyone and that if you do choose to use a service, find one that is referred.
Being new to this website, I am not new to this subject. I really like the point that was made by K13 that recruiting companies are not for everyone, but they are to be used as an AID in the recruiting process and that if you are using them to get a scholarship and not get your son recruited that you are wasting your time and money.
I have a friend who is an ex-major league player and also coached college baseball. He started a service that Yes he is in it to make some money, as he has operating expenses and has to pay bills at home, but he also has is heart in it as he was once a player himself. Like K13 said, if the players can benefit from the service, who cares if the company is making money. Should we stop using cell phones because the cell phone companies are making money? I do feel that like anything else in this world, there are always a few bad apples that spoil it for everyone else. For every couple of bad services, ther are some legitimate services who do care about their players.
Like has been said, and I will repeat, do the recruiting work yourself and if you find that you are in a position where you can both afford a recuiter AND your player needs that added exposure, I say go for it.
My rally call is that we not let one or two bad experiences ruin it for everyone and that if you do choose to use a service, find one that is referred.