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After lurking around the HSBBW for a few years, one topic that generally resurfaces each year is "how important is velocity"?

I came across an article from Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus that does about as good a job as any I've seen to help define this age old question. While his article focuses primarily on projectability at the Major League level I think it also would hold true when looking at the different levels of college ball as well. I know when my son was coming up through high school I wanted to know what it would take... well here you go.

Future Shock
Throw Hard or Go Home

by Kevin Goldstein

Last week, while attending a minor league game between Kane County and Beloit, someone noticed me leaning to the right after nearly every pitch to see what the radar gun held by the player tracking pitches said. "You care about how he's pitching, or how fast he's throwing?" asked a scout sitting near me, sarcastically. "Is there a difference?" I replied, trying to equal his snark. We both laughed, knowing that there was some merit to the question.

The next day I was talking to another scout, and we were talking about velocity when he just came out and said what we were both talking around. "I've more or less come to the conclusion that, as un**** as it is, velocity means more or less everything," he said. We talked about the rare exceptions, and how lefties aren't always limited to same restrictions, but then we started to test our theory by naming right-handers in the big leagues who don't have at least average velocity. Needless to say, it wasn't a long discussion.

That conversation stuck with me for a while, and then I realized that we have the data to prove or disprove the assertion. The PITCHf/x system measures a variety of things, but at its most basic level, it is measure that core piece of scouting data when it comes to pitchers—velocity. So we now know the velocity of every pitch thrown in the big leagues, and when measuring the data against the basic theory of the scout, the numbers support his theory, and on a staggering level.

That said, obviously there are exceptions to the rule. Asserting that, if you throw hard, you will get to the big leagues is not an absolute truth; baseball has no absolutes. But the inverse—all those who get to the big leagues throw hard—that's almost all the way there. Is command important? Yes. And secondary pitches? Absolutely important as well. But the leading statistical indicator for getting to the majors might not be measured by any spreadsheet or formula, but may instead be found on the radar gun.

To evaluate this data, just a quick step back to how scouts grade pitches. For fastballs, obviously location and movement can grade a pitch up or down, but velocity is the major factor. The standard 20-80 scouting scale, going on velocity only, looks like this:


Grade MPH
80 96+
70 94-95
60 92-93
50 89-91
40 86-88
30 83-85
20 82-

Now, with that in mind, scouts do give half scores out, such as 55, so a quick extrapolation gets us:


Grade MPH
80 96+
75 95
70 94
65 93
60 92
55 90.5
50 89
45 87.5
40 86
35 85.5
30 83
20 82-

OK, now let's crunch some data. As of August 18, there were 230 right-handers who had thrown 300 or more fastballs in the big leagues. Taking their average velocity, how many have average velocity or better? Before crunching the numbers, my bet was at least two-thirds of them did. Afterwards, my mantra changed to "Throw Hard or Go Home." Here's the distribution:


Grade MPH RHPs
80 96+ 7
75 95 11
70 94 31
65 93 34
60 92 45
55 90.5 56
50 89 27
45 87.5 11
40 86 4
35 85.5 4
30 83 0
20 82- 0

That's staggering. Nearly 92 percent of all right-handers have at least average velocity, 80 percent are above average, and well over half (55.7 percent) have true plus fastballs. If anything, it's a cruel reminder that you can have as much pitchability or command as you want, but unless you are really unique, if not downright special, it's just not going to matter unless you also throw one by a guy once in a while. For example, here are your five bottom right-handers in terms of average fastball velocity in the majors this year:


Pitcher Avg. MPH
Brad Ziegler 84.6
Darren O'Day 85.2
Cla Meredith 85.3
Chris Young 85.9
Yusmeiro Petit 87.0

So, that's three side-armers followed by Chris Young, whose height (6'11") and deception makes him one of the most unique pitchers of the past decade, and then Petit, who has even more deception than Young. This suggests that standard-issue right-handers with over-the-top deliveries and three solid offerings have very little chance of making it without plus velocity or some kind of trickery, and this kind of data makes one a little leery of the upside of a prospect like Tim Alderson of Pittsburgh, who has put up impressive numbers in the minors while rarely getting clocked throwing anything outside of the 80s on the gun.

We can talk all we want about what kind of statistics one looks at when evaluating pitching prospects, and even delve deeper into things like BABIP, ground-ball ratios, and WARP, but when it comes right down to it, there is no evidence that we've found anything to replace the radar gun reading as an indicator for future big-league success.

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Thanks for posting this - a very interesting piece of research.

Scouts normally give the 50 grade to someone with an average major league fastball. Just looking at this data, it actually suggests that the scale needs to be adjusted upwards to something like 92 MPH.

In part, this may be due to hot stadium guns - I don't know where Pitch f/x gets its speed numbers from but it is apparent from watching the SF Giants games that various stadium guns vary in their speed readings. Often times the tv gun will be 3 MPH below the stadium gun.

Any thoughts on how the LHPs would fare on this test? Minus 5 MPH?
Interesting stuff.

Steven Strassberg can throw the ball 100 mph plus. Anyone notice that almost all the highlights they show on him are knee-buckling curve balls? I wonder if hitters go up against him so afraid of the heat that they become uber-vulnerable to his devastating off-speed stuff. Either way, the threat of the big fastball is always there.

I see guys in the minors right now throwing in the mid to high 80's - depending on how their stuff is on certain days. I have noticed that some of them tend to get hit harder. I wouldn't say I have a vast resevoir of knowledge in this area however.
Tim Alderson was mentioned in that article as never throwing a pitch in the 90s. We saw him in high school throw up to mid 90s with upper 80s slider. That's why he was a first round pick. Makes you wonder if something is wrong with his arm. He always had good control, movement and was deceptive even as a HS pitcher throwing well over 90.

Often pitchers (especially starters) will throw with less velocity than their max once they reach a certain point. Sacrifice some velocity for better movement, command and endurance. So the truth is... many ML pitchers are actually "capable" of throwing with more velocity than what we see. Usually the guys who really air it out are relief pitchers.

Good article by Kevin.
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Tim Alderson was mentioned in that article as never throwing a pitch in the 90s. We saw him in high school throw up to mid 90s with upper 80s slider. That's why he was a first round pick. Makes you wonder if something is wrong with his arm. He always had good control, movement and was deceptive even as a HS pitcher throwing well over 90.

Often pitchers (especially starters) will throw with less velocity than their max once they reach a certain point. Sacrifice some velocity for better movement, command and endurance. So the truth is... many ML pitchers are actually "capable" of throwing with more velocity than what we see. Usually the guys who really air it out are relief pitchers.

Good article by Kevin.



PG you make an excellent point which also backs up one of my statements made in an earlier post where I stated that pitchers do not throw every pitch with max effort. As far as airing it out, a good example is watching the All Star Game. I remember watching Brad Penny in the All Star game, he was pumping it up with more velo than he does during regular games, and why? Because he knows he is only throwing 1 maybe 2 innings, so let it all hang out.

To me yes the FB is always good to have, but my opinion the best pitch in baseball is the Changeup.
I still would rather have a guy who struggled with command throwing 95 than a guy who struggled with command throwing 75. You get away with more mistakes the harder you throw. There are just as many kids who struggle throwing strikes who lack velo as there are who struggle with command that have it.

I believe there is a misconception that hard throwers dont pitch. Soft throwers , average throwers and hard throwers can struggle with command. Everytime the topic of velo comes up it always turns to a discussion about being capable of throwing strikes. The usual comment is "I would rather have a guy that can pitch and command the strike zone than a guy who throws hard who can not." I say "I would rather have a guy who can bring it and can command than a guy who cant bring it who can command."

The top guys bring it. They also command it. And they can do this with all their pitches. Thats why they are special.
Coach May

I think you are missing my point--I am not talking about 75 MPH arms--what I am saying is that the guys above 85 MPH need to locate the pitches and have an array of pitches---obviously the guy in the 90's who can locate would be my choice--I am not looking for guy whocan throw 100MPH and cannot throw strikes

Just the way I think
I read this article a couple of times and could not understand how the author of the article, could write,
"That's staggering. Nearly 92 percent of all right-handers have at least average velocity, 80 percent are above average, and well over half (55.7 percent) have true plus fastballs."

Avg velocity for this sample of pitchers is
91.38. The number of pitchers in the sample who threw, on average a fastball of 91.38, is 102 of the total which is 230, or 44%.

I am not disagreeing with the authors premise, just the statement that 92% of the pitchers have average velocity.
it really shows how hard you have to throw to have a legitiamate shot a the bigs. Cruising speed is often less though - lots of guys throw 87-89 70% of the fb they throw, and heat it up to 92-94 on occaision to keep the hitter honest. Shawn Marcum is one, he averages about 85/86 (tops out at 89 I think - his change up is 80/81 but he disguises it really well). Just one more exception vs the rule. Maybe we can add that japanese girl to the list pretty soon as well.
Sultan,
Sorry but 91ish is based on their average velocity not the max. PitchFx may or may not read a bit faster than guns but the reality is that mlb fastballs are pretty fast.

They'll give a kid who tops out at 90 or 91 a chance at pro ball if he's got some projectability since pitchers typically pick up about 1.5 mph by the time they are in their mid 20s but a rookie league RHP topping out at 90 or 91 better show some serious projectability, movement, location or off speed stuff and continue to develop or he's going to be out of pro ball pretty quickly.

Some of the confusion is in the 92% having average or better velocity statement. That probably should have read that 92% throw as hard or harder than what is considered MLB average for the scouting scales i.e. 89 mph as Gapfinder mentioned.
Last edited by CADad
I ran across an article that showed that from 2002 through 2007 the average MLB fastball was 89.6 mph or so. Then it was shown to have gone up in 2008 and up again in 2009 to where the OP stated.

There are too many of the same pitchers in MLB for that to have happened. Most likely they are breaking out 4 seam and 2 seam fastballs now and only reporting 4 seam fastballs for the average velocity.

So a MLB average fastball is still only a bit over 89mph. However, a MLB average 4 seam fastball may be around 91 mph, or it may be that they simply called more of the faster ones 4 seamers and more of the slower ones 2 seamers.
Obviously they left off Tim Wakefield when compiling that list...his fastball tops out at like 75 if that!

I can't think of a Red Sox pitcher who's top velocity is 91 other then Okajima (lefty I know) Beckett when healthy is 94-95 Buckholtz is 94-97 Lackey is 91-93 and dice-K is 93-94. Bull Pen guys are 95 plus. Even their lefty starter, Lester sits 94-96.
redsox,
Those are average velocities, not top velocities.

Red Sox average velocities: (Fangraphs)
Bard 97.8
Papelbon 94.2
Bucholz 93.8
Lester 93.4
Beckett 93.2
Delcarmen 93.1
Ramirez 92.5
DiceK 92
Lackey 90.9
Atchison 89.7
Nelson 88.2
Hall 88.1
Okajima 87.2
Schoeneweis 86.8
Wakefield who cares?

PitchFx has these guys a few 10ths of a mph slower.

The average velocity without taking into account number of pitches for the Sox is 91.8 which is about what the original poster came up with for the league overall. Now take away the couple mph increase since 2007 and the Sox are barely above average in velocity.

Bard kind of stands out.
Last edited by CADad

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