Grateful,
I appreciate your thoughts but part of me thinks there is something inequitable about a coach being able to cut a kid loose on July 1 without notice and that same kid needing notarized signatures in triplicate before he can call school B. I don't begrudge any coach a chance to better himself. Why can't the kid?
Someone else posted that it does not pass the smell test, but like other things in life is subject to the golden rule;
Those with the gold make the rules.
Dad04......Have you ever heard of a kid's scholarship being pulled as late as July 1 "without notice"? I have never heard of it, ever.
If it gets pulled it usually gets pulled in May when the kid is ready to head home
I also have not seen many scholarships "pulled" unless the players had problems in class or woth the team
I also have not seen many scholarships "pulled" unless the players had problems in class or woth the team
Grateful,
Then they can change the rule if it never happens. I'll take odds that some poor kid has gotten a call at the end of June saying so sorry. Granted most cases are mutual decisions.
Then they can change the rule if it never happens. I'll take odds that some poor kid has gotten a call at the end of June saying so sorry. Granted most cases are mutual decisions.
Let me add something here if I may because I think I have been down the road some of you think you might have to travel.
My sons coaches, the ones who recruited him. left at the end of his third year--to tranfer, because of his major he would have lost 50% of his credits--so he stayed
BUT
The coaches told them at seaosn end what the possibilities were-- head coach even called all the players before he announced his move to let them know first and told them all "here is my phone number. Call me if you need me to help you"
To this day my son still stays in touch with both coaches and I am friends with them as well.
You can learn to work within the system.
I call it LIFE
My sons coaches, the ones who recruited him. left at the end of his third year--to tranfer, because of his major he would have lost 50% of his credits--so he stayed
BUT
The coaches told them at seaosn end what the possibilities were-- head coach even called all the players before he announced his move to let them know first and told them all "here is my phone number. Call me if you need me to help you"
To this day my son still stays in touch with both coaches and I am friends with them as well.
You can learn to work within the system.
I call it LIFE
quote:Dad04......Have you ever heard of a kid's scholarship being pulled as late as July 1 "without notice"? I have never heard of it, ever.
I know a kid that was going to go to Texas State that (after his sr year) on June 14 hahad his scholly pulled. I have not seen one as late as July 1, but that is pretty close. It was very hard for the family, though he did catch on somewhere else. No thanks to the TSU coach.
We were notifed - via a letter - on July 28th, 2004 that most of my son's money was gone.
Yup - you read it right - July 28th.
I kid you not.
Again - thats the way it goes in real life - (or at least my real life.) You just deal with it - and move on.
There are many very bad folks out there - and when you run into one - you will know it. LOL
Yup - you read it right - July 28th.
I kid you not.
Again - thats the way it goes in real life - (or at least my real life.) You just deal with it - and move on.
There are many very bad folks out there - and when you run into one - you will know it. LOL
Being that I know most of what happened to itsinthegame, he is correct. It was unfortunate, but as he said, they dealt with it and moved on.
I am sure through his experience he has learned alot about the ins and outs of D1 recruiting, and that coaches, unfortunetly do not live up to their word or reputation.
However, I have never once heard him blame any of it on the NCAA and their "monopoly" upon students.
With his story in mind, I would never recommend anyone to attend that school. Even though he still remained on the team, this was not a good situation for anyone to be in. Sharing this information lets us know that there are schools out there that may not have the most desirable programs or coaches. Do your homework.
Itsinthegame, haven't heard from you lately, hope your son is doing well.
I am sure through his experience he has learned alot about the ins and outs of D1 recruiting, and that coaches, unfortunetly do not live up to their word or reputation.
However, I have never once heard him blame any of it on the NCAA and their "monopoly" upon students.
With his story in mind, I would never recommend anyone to attend that school. Even though he still remained on the team, this was not a good situation for anyone to be in. Sharing this information lets us know that there are schools out there that may not have the most desirable programs or coaches. Do your homework.
Itsinthegame, haven't heard from you lately, hope your son is doing well.
quote:Sharing this information lets us know that there are schools out there that may not have the most desirable programs.
TPM I wouldn't go there simply because every school will fall into the "undesirable" list at one time or another. It's not the school nor is it the coach, that’s just the real world of college athletics. My son's scholarship was pulled at the end of this season and given to a recruit. My son would either turn pro or have to transfer. Am I whining? NO! Is it right? NO! But that is the way it is. There are few if any big time coaches or colleges that won't do what they are allowed to do in order to promote themselves, their programs, or their university. We as parents should understand our sons are just disposable items that are used to promote those things.
Fungo
A few weeks back a considerable number of posts applauded the increased TV coverage of NCAA baseball. With increased exposure will come increasing revenues and not far behind will be the ever increasing expectations for the college baseball program to be a winner so as to maximize revenue.
For most of us, this will be the very first time that our son will play for a coach whose livelihood depends on his success as a coach. If he does not win and meet the other expectations of his AD and the school, he will be fired. If the AD does not keep coaches who win and operate well with their budgets and revenues, the AD will be fired. With increased TV coverage these pressures are only going to increase.
I do know that some coaches have made decisions that were poor or poorly timed. Sometimes this is due to bad execution of a plan and sometimes it is a bad coach executing the plan.
If a parent and player do not enter the world of college athletics with an appreciation of the economics involved and the expectations that the economics generates, they may end up greatly disappointed with the results.
IMO, this tension is only going to increase so long as baseball has 11.7 scholarships and coaches, especially at the DI level, must perform and have their teams win in order for the coach to survive.
For most of us, this will be the very first time that our son will play for a coach whose livelihood depends on his success as a coach. If he does not win and meet the other expectations of his AD and the school, he will be fired. If the AD does not keep coaches who win and operate well with their budgets and revenues, the AD will be fired. With increased TV coverage these pressures are only going to increase.
I do know that some coaches have made decisions that were poor or poorly timed. Sometimes this is due to bad execution of a plan and sometimes it is a bad coach executing the plan.
If a parent and player do not enter the world of college athletics with an appreciation of the economics involved and the expectations that the economics generates, they may end up greatly disappointed with the results.
IMO, this tension is only going to increase so long as baseball has 11.7 scholarships and coaches, especially at the DI level, must perform and have their teams win in order for the coach to survive.
Fungo,
Glad that you brought it up first. Since you did, I shall explain.
Many (not all) big D1 schools do the same thing, after 3 years it is possible for one to lose their scholarship to be given to a freshman. This usually happens when a player is expected to only stay 3 years, the three year plan it is called. This was mentioned at both schools he almost signed with, not with any others beforehand. And discussed. It's called budgeting, as Infielddad explained and being able to get in those 11.7 scholarships. Hmm , maybe this is what happend at OU, too many kids stayed beyond the expected time, cutting into the budget?
This is why schools have the "five year plan" or simply called redshirting. You redshirt, then have three more years to play and if you decide to stay as a senior (your 5th year), you are given some money. By that time most of the players are down to maybe a class or two, or have graduated and begin graduate school. If you see a senior on the team at a bigger school, he probably was redshirted. Now don't panic everyone, this is typically a scenerio if you have come as a highly recruited player, they don't expect you to hang around for 4,5 years unless you have sustained an injury. And that is why some schools recruit players like this, they can make an impact while there for three years and move on and so does the program.
I don't really consider that undesirable, or deceptive, just business.
You do bring up a good point though
And yes you are NOT whining, my point exactly!
Glad that you brought it up first. Since you did, I shall explain.
Many (not all) big D1 schools do the same thing, after 3 years it is possible for one to lose their scholarship to be given to a freshman. This usually happens when a player is expected to only stay 3 years, the three year plan it is called. This was mentioned at both schools he almost signed with, not with any others beforehand. And discussed. It's called budgeting, as Infielddad explained and being able to get in those 11.7 scholarships. Hmm , maybe this is what happend at OU, too many kids stayed beyond the expected time, cutting into the budget?
This is why schools have the "five year plan" or simply called redshirting. You redshirt, then have three more years to play and if you decide to stay as a senior (your 5th year), you are given some money. By that time most of the players are down to maybe a class or two, or have graduated and begin graduate school. If you see a senior on the team at a bigger school, he probably was redshirted. Now don't panic everyone, this is typically a scenerio if you have come as a highly recruited player, they don't expect you to hang around for 4,5 years unless you have sustained an injury. And that is why some schools recruit players like this, they can make an impact while there for three years and move on and so does the program.
I don't really consider that undesirable, or deceptive, just business.
You do bring up a good point though
And yes you are NOT whining, my point exactly!quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
There are few if any big time coaches or colleges that won't do what they are allowed to do in order to promote themselves, their programs, or their university. We as parents should understand our sons are just disposable items that are used to promote those things.
Fungo
It may be a tad rough, but that is the truth. IMO - Well put Fungo.
TPM,
Thanks - been traveling. He is doing just fine.
Regards.
Thanks - been traveling. He is doing just fine.
Regards.
My son has transferred from a D II to a D III. He really likes the coach, but from the get go of the transfer discussions also said he wanted to go to a school closer to home and he wanted it to have excellent facilities. His new school is much closer and has wonderful facilities.
Coaches can change but geographical locations don't and stadiums don't-maybe he was on to something?
Coaches can change but geographical locations don't and stadiums don't-maybe he was on to something?
Maybe it is me but the Stephenson thing puzzles me. You leave and take a position at another school. It is your decision. things dont work out (in this case very quickly) Your former institution takes you back. Why did you leave in the first place?
Some feel the grass is greener on the other side of the fence---in this case there were some thorns in the grass
Grateful:
Yes, I have.
quote:Dad04......Have you ever heard of a kid's scholarship being pulled as late as July 1 "without notice"?
Yes, I have.
quote:Don't you understand that SBK truly believes he can change the system perhaps even the world---
TRhit
True, there are still a few of us out here that still think we can make a difference and when we work together, every so often we still can.
The last thing we need to do is to listen to negativity from those apathetic fools who are happy to accept mediocrity even when they recognize there is room for improvement.
SBK,
Just curious - what exactly motivates your use of the term "fool" in this discussion?
Is it really necessary to denigrate an individual to further whatever point you are attempting to make?
Odd - to say the least - as well as being rude and unnecessary IMO.
Just curious - what exactly motivates your use of the term "fool" in this discussion?
Is it really necessary to denigrate an individual to further whatever point you are attempting to make?
Odd - to say the least - as well as being rude and unnecessary IMO.
Its
Dont worry about--it is usually the fool on the hill, this case South Dakota , who calls another a fool. Especially when they know nothing about the person of whom they speak.
There are two worlds today , the "virtual" world and the "real" world-- SBK is one of those "cyber virtual world" people--I am not sure if he even knows what the real world is.
I may be apathetic to his view maybe, but I would like to think I have made a difference for a few.
Those who know me in the real world , not the "virtual' me that SBK interprets, and usually he interprets wrong, might concur.
He forgets that I grew up in a generation that wanted to change things--some even died for it--the "flower child" generation was a strong one but not much changed even with all their efforts
Isn't it amazing how cyberspace gives people the "spine" to say things they would not say face to face--cyberspace is faceless,as is SBK
Dont worry about--it is usually the fool on the hill, this case South Dakota , who calls another a fool. Especially when they know nothing about the person of whom they speak.
There are two worlds today , the "virtual" world and the "real" world-- SBK is one of those "cyber virtual world" people--I am not sure if he even knows what the real world is.
I may be apathetic to his view maybe, but I would like to think I have made a difference for a few.
Those who know me in the real world , not the "virtual' me that SBK interprets, and usually he interprets wrong, might concur.
He forgets that I grew up in a generation that wanted to change things--some even died for it--the "flower child" generation was a strong one but not much changed even with all their efforts
Isn't it amazing how cyberspace gives people the "spine" to say things they would not say face to face--cyberspace is faceless,as is SBK
TR,
I can assure you - I am not worried about it. LOL
Just curious as to what motivates someone to post like that.
My guess is I will not receive an answer.
I can assure you - I am not worried about it. LOL
Just curious as to what motivates someone to post like that.
My guess is I will not receive an answer.
Just a figure of speech, could of used something better so that the message wouldn't have been missed. My apologies.
statement from AD at OU regarding scholarships:
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=2710...ID=300&ATCLID=156785
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=2710...ID=300&ATCLID=156785
"Currently, OU has the equivalency of approximately 14.5 financial awards offered. The NCAA allows 11.7. That OU figure is down from 15.7 in the last 24 hours just to illustrate how quickly and how dramatically the number can move."
Despite the unfortunate likelihood that some players at OU lost their scholarships in that 24 hour period, this information should be very eye opening to every student athlete and their parent. You cannot do enough research on the coaches and schools to make sure you have a good fit. Fungo hit it perfectly. This really is not much different than "commodity" trading except that someone's son is involved.
Despite the unfortunate likelihood that some players at OU lost their scholarships in that 24 hour period, this information should be very eye opening to every student athlete and their parent. You cannot do enough research on the coaches and schools to make sure you have a good fit. Fungo hit it perfectly. This really is not much different than "commodity" trading except that someone's son is involved.
quote:Despite the unfortunate likelihood that some players at OU lost their scholarships in that 24 hour period, this information should be very eye opening to every student athlete and their parent.
quote:It is especially common in sports with a culture of incoming and current student-athletes who do not attend or return to the university for a variety of reasons, including professional draft opportunities, transfers, initial and continuing eligibility concerns and other reasons that might be specific to the individual.
Not shootin at you, infield.
The second quote is from the article that 123KMom posted.
But, the italics are mine.