Thinking out loud

Since the majority thinking in our society is based on a system of gray areas rather than black and white specifics, Giambi is considered less 'at fault' than if he continued to deny usage.

The question of punishment has to consider the rules of the MLB and its policies at the time Giambi admits use.

A prime example would be HGH. While it may not be in the class of drugs considered steroids, it has the potential to enhance performance and longevity.

If Giambi is morally guilty by the standards of baseball and Congress, but did not break any laws or rules, no punishment is called for.

In a society where everything is cut and dry, Giambi cheated and should be subject to infamy and disdain.

And Mike Vick is learning what happens when you offend and then lie and cover up.... he's getting the book thrown at him (which he should)

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Jason Giambi admits he used performance enhancers, meets with Mitchell and Selig and gets no punishment.

Am I missing something here???---Admit it and you get off "Scott Free"?---DUH !!!!

Giambi may have been more cooperative than anyone is ever going to know. Had it been public I believe it's called immunity.

TG

Are you saying he "rolled over" on fellow players?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TG

Are you saying he "rolled over" on fellow players?

We'll never know. Unfortuntely for baseball, I think if the entire steroid story comes forth it's going to be huge and involve a lot of players.

The players will know and if in fact he did "roll on them" he will a persona non grata real quickly


Says a lot about his character

quote:

We'll never know. Unfortuntely for baseball, I think if the entire steroid story comes forth it's going to be huge and involve a lot of players.

Excuse me.
Do you think that the Steroid story hasn't come forward yet.

I'm waiting for the story to end.

Because Giambi admitted steroid use from the get go.
Did not hide behind his Lawyers.

And Apoligized, goes along way to gain forgiveness.

He was still wrong, But he owned up to it.

EH

EH

That is my point----own up to it and you do not get suspended---a bit hypocritical in my mind

The idea of "just-owning-up-to-it" may be fine when you're a kid and under an adults supervision but in the adult world such a simplistic approach violates the legal ramifications that adults have to deal with, eg., loss of property, rights of travel, and personal freedom, choice, monetary rights, employment, etc.

That's the reason we have a legal system to protect the rights of the individual from self-incrimination. Read the U. S. Constitution if you have a question about your rights as a U.S. Citizen.

I think I remember something like-- it isn't the crime, but the cover-up.

TR what exactly does it say about his character?

Are you referring to the fact that he may have mentioned names during questioning?

So you believe that it is positive character trait to lie to authority figures and contribute to a charade that is damaging the nation's pasttime.

I applaud him if he named names. I applaud the fact that he spoke to Mitchell about the scourge that is steriods. He committed a crime, I am glad that he exposed as many other criminals as possible.

deldad

Where I come from it is called being a "rat"

And you call Selig and Mitchell "authority figures" !!!! Please---the first thing Selig needs is B---s !!!!!

Let the likes of Selig and company come clean---they are the ones who hurt the game by sitting on their hands and do not both Selig and Mitchell have ownership ties?

CRIME!!!!! where does it say that about Giambi ? He may have violated baseball rules but we may never know if he committed crime

I would not call the players criminals, not by any stretch of imagination

TR--From politics, remember? It wasn't WHAT was done-- it was that there was a cover up.

In other words--if you admit to something you may get in trouble... but you will get in MORE trouble if you lie about it or deny it and try to cover it up. And then they find out

Giambi in my world if he rolled is a "rat"---if it is true he won't sleep well

If they used steroids they are criminals. It is illegal to possess or use steroids without a prescription, people go to jail for it. I guess if they didn't get caught that makes it ok. As far as being a "rat" is there some unwritten mafia code in baseball. If a teammate commits a crime you never talk regardless of the crime? Or does it depend on the crime? Do you turn him in for beating his wife or kids, dog fighting, murder, hit and run? And who is the judge as to whether or not the crime is serious enough to report?

What about an honor code? If you see someone cheating or doing something illegal you are obligated to report them. Why is that not the standard that professional players should live by? Why is it that a "rat" is denegarated and someone who enables a crime to continue and go unpunished is the hero?

I don't think we should raise our children on the Soprano's program.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:

quote:

We'll never know. Unfortuntely for baseball, I think if the entire steroid story comes forth it's going to be huge and involve a lot of players.

Excuse me. Do you think that the Steroid story hasn't come forward yet? I'm waiting for the story to end.

I said "the entire story." It would include names. This would explain how tainted the era is. As it is we have three recent members of the 500 homer club and the most hallowed record in sports involved.

DELDAD

Somehow I like the world I live in better than yours


Thank you

Wow.

It seems that every time the steroid discussion comes up, people like to forget that use of controlled substances without a prescription for a medical reason is against the law. Law enforcement, for reasons we could all surmise, as elected not to prosecute....as yet. This does not make it legal.

Deldad believes, as do I, that there should be honor in all endeavors, including professional sports. This is not the only instance on this board where posters suggest that honor moves to the back of the bus while convenience and gratification drives.

You may like your world where cheating is tolerated. I don't.

Orlando

Once again you misread what I write---I never said cheating is tolerated--- what I said "ratting out" others to save your own skin is not tolerated, especially when you get off totally free


My suggestion; MR Selig, Owners Puppet, has now made it cool to admit your transgressions in the baseball world so why not have all the offenders line up , go to Mr Selig's confessional, and walk away with no punishment- if they do this there is no reason to "rat out" others and all the world will go on. We can even keep the media away so as to make the offenders comfortable

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
I don't think we should raise our children on the Soprano's program.

Well said, deldad.

And once again you interpret through your own filter, TR. I never said Giambi or anyone who should be investigated for use of illegal substances, should get off free. I simply agreed that knowledge of illegal acts should be reported.

quote:

The players will know and if in fact he did "roll on them" he will a persona non grata real quickly


Says a lot about his character

Think about the guy he didn't "roll" on. The guy who's trying to make it the old fashion way. Without sticking a needle in his arm to boost his HR production. Aren't guys like Giambi are actually dis-honoring the game of baseball? So if he feels bad, or loses sleep for "ratting" out others who are dis-honoring the game, if i'm the guy who's trying to succeed without juicing, I could give a rats *** about him or his character.
Do u think a drug dealer would rat out his friends to avoid jail time? Hell yeah he would. Did Giambi blow the whistle on a few people? Who knows. But don't criticize a guy who artificailly made himself a better ball player for being a stool pigeon.

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
I don't think we should raise our children on the Soprano's program.

You're right deldad...the Simpsons are a much better choice.

gotwood

In my mind that is where this country is in trouble---they watch and listen comic characters---that is not real life---to me that is sad---

PAT H

Stool pigeons have no honor in my world especially to save their own skin

You're right TR...we need more comics like this...



or this...



Providing us with nothing but reliable information...

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Stool pigeons have no honor in my world especially to save their own skin

You're right! Quick - somebody call Luca Brazzi to pull an inside whack job on Giambi. Sheesh.

Had another interesting thought after Viock gave his apologies today----a bit of a veer of the track but ---why did he not aplogize to his family?--I do not believe he mentioned them---also where is his brother now?

I heard that his Dad was trying to sell his story to the highest bidder-great family support!!!