Thinking Out loud

Funny you mention these things. I was talking with my wife about it the other day. Add in MIF backing up the throw back to the pitcher. Heck, some teams have given up on raking after the game and putting the tarps out.

There is clearly a lack of attention paid to teaching fundamentals in most HS programs - and a lot of travel ball programs too for that matter. There are a lot of reasons for this IMO, but none of them make it okay. There are way too many HS coaches with little to no playing experience in their history. Many are football coaches that coach baseball just for a little extra money. These guys don’t know enough about the game to teach anything. Many travel ball coaches are in it for the wrong reasons (think Logan Stout @ Dallas Patriots for any DFW readers) and they aren’t interested in teaching the game either, if they know enough to teach. I can’t remember the last time I saw a HS player that ran the bases well. HC at TCU has said today’s players run faster, throw harder & hit the ball farther than ever before. But they don’t know the first thing about doing little things that win baseball games. So your eyes aren’t deceiving you.

I went to a high school with 1500 students and 14 kids made the freshman team.  All of us could play and our HC was a former LA Dodger and he taught us how to play.  Today it is common that a school that size would have two freshman teams of 17-20 kids, plus some freshman on JV, plus a few that are put on varsity... maybe 50 freshman playing for the school.  Are there really 3x more real ball players today versus 35 years ago?  Or are there still 15 that can play, but they keep an addition 35 kids on to fill up rosters?  Did I mention that when I played HS baseball was free, and now it is routine for schools to charge $800+ per kid?  Why cut anyone, right?

Ya our HS coach may just be spoiled. My son in law coached almost all or HS team in LL and Travel ball until Jr HS.

Our 10 year old ss caught fly ball, tagged the runner going to 3rd, stepped on 2nd, and thru to first. Have not seen a cooler play to this day.

They are all Seniors now and a state tourney team with lots of college committs . I may just get a pic of them with their old LL jerseys for SR day.

@Good Knight posted:

Ya our HS coach may just be spoiled. My son in law coached almost all or HS team in LL and Travel ball until Jr HS.

Our 10 year old ss caught fly ball, tagged the runner going to 3rd, stepped on 2nd, and thru to first. Have not seen a cooler play to this day.

They are all Seniors now and a state tourney team with lots of college committs . I may just get a pic of them with their old LL jerseys for SR day.

Why did he step on 2nd?

I had an 7yo female SS pull off an unassisted triple play in a similar manner. She caught a soft liner, stepped on 2nd to double off the runner from 2nd, and tagged the runner coming to 2nd from 1st.  She went on to become a SCIAC player of the year.  In soccer.

I think we've all enabled coaches to coach way less.  Youth baseball - like most every other your sport - has become  this massive machine.  And at this point, it's far too late to do anything about it.  Those who believe less is more are a dying breed.  And for those who still do believe that, most are goaded into integrating into the massive machine solely for a lack of quality options elsewhere.

Me, I'm old school.  I do think less is more.  And I badly wish everyone agreed with me.  What's more, I wish I had the strength to resist the inertia of it all.  But I don't.  Like so many others, I was putting $300+ bats in my kid's hand at age 8.  Dumping money into private lessons and exorbitantly high-priced travel ball by age 8.  Feeding and feeding the machine.  Because I felt it was necessary?  Not in principle, but out of fear that my kid wouldn't be able to keep up with the Joneses.  I don't necessarily have regrets because my son loved every minute of it and some portion of it helped make him the college recruit that he is today.  But viewed through one lens, it's enough to make you want to puke.

At any rate, due to parents like myself who paid to get my 8 year olds in front of college level instruction via private lessons and the like, today's "coaches" don't feel they have anything to coach.  Mom and dad's checkbooks already sent their players through curriculum that few high school coaches can even understand.  You'd think/hope that those coaches would then spend their time focusing on the smaller things mentioned already in this thread.  But they don't.  We now deliver them kids that throw 90 and have 100 mph exit velos which empowers them to simply sit back, fill out the lineup card and pretend the wins are somehow attributed to their "coaching."  That's not 100% of all coaches, but isn't too far from it.  If you actually do have a real/quality high school coach (or little league coach, for that matter), you're the exception. Be grateful.

It may not only be the youth sports juggernaut - it may also be structural changes to the US economy and paid work, or some combination of the two. People (especially younger people) may not feel like they have as much leeway or flexibility to take on coaching jobs outside of their regular jobs, or may have less free time to plan. I know our son's Ripken coach spent tons of time on the team designing practices, scrimmages, etc. , but he was also self-employed and not worried about getting fired (going broke, maybe). Also, the people who know the most might make more money working for the youth sports juggernaut than for the high schools. Just wondering....

I agree with the getting trapped on the youth sports merry-go-round. We thought these club baseball parents were nuts, and then look at us now. Kid LOVES the game, though... hard to imagine doing things differently than we did.

Good post.

I disagree on principle to the travel ball thing to some extent.  The top ranked teams in any age group in USSSA are still teaching mechanics.  I can guarantee you that the top 10 teams in each age group major division are teaching mechanics, where to be and real baseball.  The problem is travel ball and even HS baseball has become watered down.  We get so caught up in everybody should play and get a trophy that we have watered down the competitiveness overall.  The level of the top kids is probably higher than ever before but the overall level is going down.  There are kids playing travel ball that have no business playing travel ball and probably can't succeed at rec ball.  There are kids starting on or playing HS that have no business playing.  I have kids coming to me for lessons because their travel coach can't teach them how to hit, throw or catch.  It is ridiculous.  But I also have a local HS Varsity HC that told his players it is not my job to teach you how to pitch, hit, or field a ball.  Then what is his job?

I may have to disagree a bit with PitchingFan, as I remember the top travel teams around 12U were full of early developers, taken from a broad region.  They had kids who threw gas at the mound, and with the USSSA bats, it was scary how hard they smash the balls.  Each year, they would re-up, cutting those who don't develop as fast with a couple of new early developers.  There were practices, but most of the kids didn't go, since they were taken from a wide radius.

There are also some really good travel teams that teach fundamentals, but the couple of teams that are on top around here are regional teams full of manchildren.

Also, at the HS level, good hitting can mask poor fundamentals to a degree.  However, the well coached (and talented) team will beat them.

Bad coaching riding good talent isn't anything new. It existed long before this generation of ball-players. People nowadays just notice it more as Travel-Ball has become more and more popular. Mix in the financial benefits of carrying 3 to 4 teams per age bracket, and it's inevitable that baseball gets watered-down. Then there is the whole bouncing from one organization to another to another, but that's a couple paragraphs that I don't feel like typing........

When my son was eleven during a rain delay in LL all stars I chatted with the opposing LL all star coach. We decided to pay attention to who were the best players in our eighteen league district and form a 13u team in a couple of years. We selected only kids we thought had solid high school potential regardless of current size. We wanted to make them the best potential high school players possible. They had to live close enough to make practices.

We both played college ball. I was an outfielder and pitched some freshman year out of need. He was an infielder who played some A ball. Of the potential players I recruited a dad who was an All American and pitched to AAA. Another dad was a college catcher.

The team played 13u, 14u and 16u when the kids were fifteen. Five moved on to 17u teams the following year. I handed over the team to a newly forming academy when my son left the team. When it was all over all but one kid played some level of college ball. The kid could have. He chose college basketball.

When my son got to varsity in high school I asked him about the knowledge of the coaching staff. He commented his former D2 All American coach was very knowledgeable. But he wasn’t hearing anything he hadn’t heard for those three years in travel.

A LL all star rain delay turned into a great baseball learning experience for sixteen kids. We practiced twice a week. We would have entire practices on things like first and third, base running, cutoffs, etc.. Do it again and again and again. We were a sound fundamental team. I saw travel teams I could tell weren’t practicing. They showed up to play bash ball.

One strict rule was when you step away from your parents car look like a ball player. No hats on backwards and jersies tucked in.

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

Bad coaching riding good talent isn't anything new. It existed long before this generation of ball-players. People nowadays just notice it more as Travel-Ball has become more and more popular. Mix in the financial benefits of carrying 3 to 4 teams per age bracket, and it's inevitable that baseball gets watered-down. Then there is the whole bouncing from one organization to another to another, but that's a couple paragraphs that I don't feel like typing........

By 14u players and parents can tell who knows how to teach and coach and who can’t. The kids are hitting the age where coaches have to earn their respect. The guys who only recruited early bloomers get exposed. It’s why there’s such a change in coaching and teams by 15u. This also applies to who can play and is it a daddy ball team for junior.

When my son was playing LL sixteen years ago it was the priority. Travel ball was extended play in the summer for talented players. Now a lot of kids are playing travel ball full time who would be mediocre LL players. But the kid and the parents get to pound their chest and say, “We’re in travel ball” even though it’s not that relevant anymore unless playing at an elite level.

Back when my son played 13u and 14u there were players and teams who didn’t belong. There were certain teams I knew we would be wasting our time. One time we hit the time limit up nineteen runs (24-5) after two innings. I pitched non pitchers so we wouldn’t burn any innings.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Funny you mention these things. I was talking with my wife about it the other day. Add in MIF backing up the throw back to the pitcher. Heck, some teams have given up on raking after the game and putting the tarps out.

on the flip side, there's a public park in hawaii that my son and his cousin work out at when we're there visiting family.  It's one of the only fields in the area thats open, with decent predictable weather and that has a cage. It gets heavy use from ballplayers from all over. one thing that struck me is the care that goes in to that field. remember, it's a public park. you usually see a dad and his LL age kids, a couple of HS kids, or a LL team on it at all times when school is out. every one of them rakes and drags after they're done. you don't see litter around. if one group is using just one side of the diamond, i've seen other groups ask politely and be welcome to use the other side of the diamond (one taking gb on the left side and one taking gb on the right).

very heartwarming to see, imo

@mattys posted:

on the flip side, there's a public park in hawaii that my son and his cousin work out at when we're there visiting family.  It's one of the only fields in the area thats open, with decent predictable weather and that has a cage. It gets heavy use from ballplayers from all over. one thing that struck me is the care that goes in to that field. remember, it's a public park. you usually see a dad and his LL age kids, a couple of HS kids, or a LL team on it at all times when school is out. every one of them rakes and drags after they're done. you don't see litter around. if one group is using just one side of the diamond, i've seen other groups ask politely and be welcome to use the other side of the diamond (one taking gb on the left side and one taking gb on the right).

very heartwarming to see, imo

When I was LL president I scheduled all of my games on the same field (we had 2 parks and a total of 5 fields). I did this for two reasons. One, the concession faced the field so I never had concession duty complaints on my teams, two, I would always water, rake, and groom the field. On Sundays I'd go out with an edger and trim up the edges of the grass. This time of year in FL the infield clay can get pretty brutal because of the wind, temp, and lack of rain. I even set the schedule so the field had an hour break before our games on Saturdays so I could pull out the professional grade field hose the league purchased and wet the IF, batters boxes, and mound. I had the best SS in the league and I made sure he had the best conditions possible to make his unreal plays.

I don't live in a hotbed.  Our HS teams sometimes have good, well-trained players, and sometimes they don't.  We have local travel teams which can be terrible or great; the best players usually play on more regional travel teams.  The HS head coaches are required to be teachers in the school, but that doesn't mean that they don't take baseball seriously, many have done it for years.  The assistant coaches take it seriously, too, and are definitely teaching things.  Some players take private lessons, some don't, and manage to end up in college ball anyway.

There's a certain elitism in some of these posts.  If boys have a great experience playing baseball, they will love baseball for the rest of their lives.  If the only people allowed to play are boys who have been well-taught with serious skills, many high schools wouldn't be able to have teams.  The sport would die for lack of fans.  Sure, it would be fantastic if all high-school players had been taught sound fundamentals before they got to HS.  I'm amazed at coaches who are able to do the best they can with what they are given, and that's a skill that's not limited to coaching.

We were lucky, my sons volunteer assistant coach in HS was a scout for a ML team. His summer ball coaches were the best around and he learned a lot from them.

Most college coaches, even the ones from elite programs don't expect most players to have mad skills. That's why college coaches spend hours upon hours in practice getting ready for the season, and why they still practice during season.

I saw this today.

Does playing for the most expensive program guarantee a college scholarship? Nope. Does being coached by the best coach guarantee a better player? Nope. Does having natural talent guarantee being a big leaguer. Nope.

You are your only guarantee. Your players attitude determines it all!

Speaking of teaching kids things, if you are a HS baseball coach, when would you work on improving your players' swings? Would you make your team meet in the fall? Seems like by the time spring practices start it is too late/risky to make major changes to mechanics. I have heard that some high schools have year-round baseball class - do those coaches work on mechanics in the fall? Wondering because this topic came up at dinner - the ball players of the family were of the opinion that mechanics are an off-season individual project for individual team members to work on.

TPM

great summary. Players to learn need to ask questions. Why and How?

Bob

@Fan2024 posted:

Speaking of teaching kids things, if you are a HS baseball coach, when would you work on improving your players' swings? Would you make your team meet in the fall? Seems like by the time spring practices start it is too late/risky to make major changes to mechanics. I have heard that some high schools have year-round baseball class - do those coaches work on mechanics in the fall? Wondering because this topic came up at dinner - the ball players of the family were of the opinion that mechanics are an off-season individual project for individual team members to work on.

Coaches can make adjustments. But, few high school coaches have time to make complete changes in a player. I knew my son would be a better player if he made one swing mechanics change and one pitching mechanics change. It had to be done in the off-season. It involved being able to repeat the mechanics in a non game environment until it became muscle memory. Ironically I paid a coach to make changes my son was tuning out from me. It’s what happens at fifteen.

@RJM posted:

Ironically I paid a coach to make changes my son was tuning out from me. It’s what happens at fifteen.

or younger. As long as the message is received, I regurgitate it like Kramer from Seinfeld as I hear the knucklehead praise the gospel from the paid consultant as if it was an epiphany.

   "But they don’t know the first thing about doing little things that win baseball games" ........I totally agree. Do the little things right and the big things will take care of themself

small sample size but our travel program (based out of Orange County CA) is VERY focused on fundamentals; son's HS program is the same. Might have something to do with the long-running stereotype that west coast baseball is small ball, pitching and defense. 

@OskiSD posted:

small sample size but our travel program (based out of Orange County CA) is VERY focused on fundamentals; son's HS program is the same. Might have something to do with the long-running stereotype that west coast baseball is small ball, pitching and defense.

I see it the same way in my area as well. I think personal perception plays a large role in some of these comments.

Good coaching.....Bad coaching....No coaching......Noodles.....No noodles.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZIlAExvneo