This 1st and 3rd play OK with you?

To clarify, the runner at 3rd normally starts with a MUCH shorter lead-so that as he breaks when the pitcher starts his motion, he is sprint full speed but only for a short distance..if timed properly, can leave enough time/space to get back on a dive. But I've seen it done so well where it legitimately looks like a squeeze coming but the guy at 3rd is stopping and getting back before the catcher can really make an immediate throw back to 3rd for a pick.

quote:

Runner at 3rd abruptly stops and dashes back to 3rd by the time the ball actually crosses home plate,

I'm not questioning your veracity, but I do question your description. How can R3 take a "MUCH shorter" primary, then perform a credible fake dash to the plate, then return to 3B...in 1.5 seconds?

OTOH, if he takes a normal primary, that makes it even harder to get far enough down the line for his fake break to be credible, and then back to the bag.

quote:

we tried working on it late last year as more teams in our conference started to use it...and we still couldn't defend it. It's tough to tell your catcher to completely ignore a breaking runner for a squeeze and assume it's a trick play. Any thoughts on this, or ideas on how to properly get an out?

In your conference, I would prep my catcher by telling him [a] that suicide squeezes are very very rare; [b] that suicide squeezes with R1 stealing are even rarer--with no outs, a short popup could result in a 2-5-3 or 1-5-3 triple play; [c] that in the unlikely event that they're actually trying to suicide, it's nevertheless unlikely that the batter will fail to make contact (thereby requiring the catcher to hold the ball for a tag at the plate); [d] that therefore, unless and until teams actually begin to try to bunt in that situation, we're going to ignore the fake bunt--we'll run whatever play we had called for. If it's a throwdown, the good news is that R3 is standing on third base--not a scoring threat except if the ball really gets loose out at 2B.

For that matter, I don't want my defenders yelling "squeeze" when there's an R3 and the batter squares early. True, it alerts my corners. But it spooks most pitchers. I don't like the tradeoff. Conversely, as a 3B coach, I love it when my batter squares early for a fake bunt and the defenders start yelling while their pitcher is still in his motion.

I wouldn't see this as bush league but I'm with freddy77 in that I can't picture what exactly the runner on third is doing. How short is the primary lead and how far down the line does he get before he puts the breaks on and heads back?

To defend it I would do pretty much what freddy77 said but I would also throw in some third / first pick moves because somebody is probably going to leave a little too early. I would also do some snap picks to first. The more you focus on the runners the slower they are to execute their job. Pitching out would also help give the catcher a chance to see what's going on and react accordingly.

Very good points guys, thanks. And yea, I did a pretty terrible job explaining R3. He isn't really back at 3B by the time our catcher was receiving the ball...more so he was already stopped and was able to get back in time by the time our catcher got up to snap it back down.

R3 was normally off the base by a walking lead of 2 or 3 steps-pretty short. Most of the time R3 would sprint a good 10-15 ft from his lead as the pitcher was bringing it leg up and about to throw-just enough time with the batter to square to make our guys think a squeeze was coming, and R3 would never get to half way or more down the line. It seemed like the teams really practiced this and had the timing down perfectly.

I've done this play many, many times and it has always worked - except once when our runner at 3rd tripped.
It's a great way to get a slow runner to 2nd base on a steal, especially late in the game. There has only been one throw to 2B by the catcher since we started doing it. Never had a runner thrown out.
The way JamesG explained it is exactly how it works with the timing.
It worked so well, other teams started to do it against us. Nothing you can do once someone (3B, SS, fan, bench, etc.) yells "squeeze."

BaseballByTheYard

James G,
Not that I doubted you, but meachrm added some confirmation of the potential value of this tactic.

"...this play... has always worked....Nothing you can do once someone (3B, SS, fan, bench, etc.) yells 'squeeze'."


Every tactic has a counter-tactic:


Short version: In your conference, prep your catcher by telling him, "Every time I sign you with the first and third play, I'm going to verbally remind you, 'stick with the plan'. That's a reminder to ignore everything you see and hear, and execute the play we called for."

Reinforce that with a 10 min. practice consisting of a 20 (?) reps where prior to each rep you state the play-- "we're throwing through" or "pump-fake, throw to 3B", etc.-- and then have him make the play while you scream "squeeze!" or "bunt!" into his ear