This Draft blows me away

Well, Fungo, you need to dust off your crystal ball!

Really, I have to assume your wife is correct or it was a signability issue. Not sure if he wanted to go to school or in the draft, was asking too much $ or any variety of additional possibilities.

Then, when a particular strong prospect gets taken off the board and everyone starts shifting names and making phone calls, it throws off all thirty teams.

ktcosmos

...just for the record, I know you know all of what I just said.

I'm just blathering because I'm so stoked that my son got drafted today.

ktcosmos

ktcosmos, so let's share the infomation. What team and round? What a great day for your son!!!! Congratulations. It is a lot of fun today but boy does the work begin tomorrow.
So...enjoy today...a lot.

ktcosmos,
CONGRATULATIONS on your son being drafted!!!! Exciting times ahead!

I'm not really surprised by the players that DO get drafted --- It's the ones that get PASSED OVER that I don't understand. ---- I understand the signability issue clouds the draft but there are some that I believe have no signability issues. Like the college senior that has put up great numbers and was considered a great pick out of high school and after four years of very productive D-1 ball he gets passed over.

Genes are valid ingredients in the making of a professional player.

Fungo,

The ones that I get the biggest kick out of are the ones that cant even chew gum and walk at the same time.

Over hyped - and well connected - and gone before you can say October. LOL

You have to feel bad for the kids you speak of - who have done nothing but produce for years - only to be left out because they didnt have the right connections.

Sad - but true.

the only explanation i can imagine is the simple goal of the draft. a lot of times you'll hear a hs kid going number one in the draft and guys that were picked 10+ out of college appear in the majors much faster. some are simply further along in development while younger guys have a higher "ceiling". a senior out of college, that possibly could have been very productive, is older than others available. is a team more likely to get more years out of a HS kid or someone graduating from college?

thats how i see it

I, too, am amazed by the draft. Part of it, I think, has to do with "projectability" which so often is so far off that it makes you wonder what canteen some of these scouts have been drinking from.

I guess I don't have a clue. One player I've seen with a 5.75 ERA in 80 innings, listed 6-4 really 6-1, average college stuff and an average college beer belly got drafted in the let's just say 7th-11th round. Its not like there aren't ANY lefties available.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH but the pro scouts eyes may see things we do not-- if you try to figure it out you will go crazy--no different at the college level when you see kids who get scholarships and you wonder why-- the college coach saw something you or I didn't

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder !!!!

This is the first year I have followed the draft and I followed several guys I thought for sure were going to be drafted. When they weren't drafted or drafted much lower, I started thinking "Man, I wish I could see some of these guys who were drafted because they must be super men." I have no clue how it works

I can tell you that some of the so called guru's, you know the ones Baseball America, Inside prep baseball, Perfect game and the like. Post there top (you fill in the number) high school prospects list. While these lists are fun to look at (if your kid is/was listed) which mine never was (anywhere). Then along comes the draft and kids hopes are dashed all over the country. A PIECE OF ADVICE!!! DON'T BELIEVE THESE LISTS!!!! THEY MEAN NOTHING!!!

the only consistent qualifications I can identify for draft inclusion are

A) Hitting the ball very far, very often
B) Throwing the ball very hard once in a while, or appearing like you might someday throw hard.

Catching and throwing the ball well, or moving quickly from base to base, while helpful winning games and very nice, are by themselves not reason for being drafted. jmo

infield,

25th Round, Twins, who made it clear it was for a Draft & Follow. Son is soooo comfortable with that! He's heading to Yavapai College as a freshman.

itsinthegame,

those family-connected selections seem to be like honorary degrees in some cases. They were fun to hear announced, but ... I agree with Fungo. You know som eof them won't go anywhere but will be able to say, "I got drafted in 2006!" That sounds so cool!

In my son's case, I'm pretty sure my awesome softball and racquetball and kayaking skills propelled him (kidding).

I loved watching it and hearing all the kids names called and can't wait until next year!

ktcosmos

The ones that are hardest for me to figure out are the players who have been told by scouts that they most likely will be drafted in the first thru tenth round (and who most knowledgeable people would believe would go in an early round) only to fall to the 40+ rounds ... with no hint of late season injury or signability problems.

But I can say ... very sadly ... that I know of two specific instances where college coaches interfered with their players' draft status by intentionally misinforming scouts about their players. One actually told the scouts that the player was h*llbent on finishing his degree which was so far off the path of truth that the player ended up signing as a free agent for a couple thousand dollars. The second one was given little play time to show his stuff so that he wouldn't leave his school program (an older player with eligibilty remaining due to a red-shirt year), discouraged from playing summer ball, etc.

I would hope that the college coach interference cases are few and far between because I think it is dastardly, and I would imagine that a player's attitude towards a coach who would hinder his future would be difficult for upcoming seasons as there would be no trusting in the coach anymore.

Makes us realize that our sons need to have their heads on pretty straight in case their hopes are dashed on MLB draft day ... always have a back up plan.

Sad situations all around ...

FBM, Good post. When I was 20, to have a back up plan, I would have needed A plan to start with.

I watch a lot of hs baseball and I know I have no clue how most of these decisions are made.

It seems pretty clear cut when a kid is simply a top prospect stud but after these 1st round selections the choices rarely match what I would expect.

Somehow when a kid is identified as a draft prospect it seems to be a designation they can't lose, while much better unknowns can play right next to them and remain unseen.

You always hear about the scouts that uncover a hidden gem but if you watch most of them when they are there for a particular prospect, unless that player is pitching or hitting most of the scouts appear to be swapping stories and not watching anyone else. Seems to me if they really watched the whole game they might see holes in the prospects they are scouting and might actually find some of those hidden gems that are just playing the game.

Tr said it right. In the eye of the (team) Beholder. They're paying, they put the best eyes they know of, on the kid, and then they decide.

Was reading a report on a H.S. LHP that they had at 86-88 mph touching 90 mph on occassion and it went on to read that he lacks present velocity! Must admit I was scratching my head a bit.

JMEPOP, you are dead-on right!
Every once in a while you see an "old-school" scout sit and really "scout" the game...not very often! It is really a shame. It will eventually turn back around, the percentages are just not going to hold up..."make-up" and "projectability" just do not hold water.
FBM, it is also a shame, but I know of 3 players that have been "messed with" like that by their college coaches...one HS coach did it the year his son was drafted... I do believe there are more good college coaches that would never comprimise the integrity of their program like that.
Draft is an exciting time, and best wishes for those few chosen, but I always think about the potentially great player-who was just released... way down the totem pole...not getting all the "help" that kid with all the "projectability, "make-up" and "money" to make room for another "prospect"....In a perfect MLB world, they'd all get the same chance, money and projection.

I know a kid who hit 92 mph from the mound in high school, runs sub 6.8, has great hands, batted over .450 and OB was off the chart. Too small. He went to JUCO, batted .493 with power, not just .493. Has all tools and a good kid.

He is first team All-American, the best high school player I've ever seen, and he was not drafted again. They think he is too small and will not be able to hit with wood.

A friend of his works 90-93, with a plus slider. He slid off the chart and wasn't drafted. Was also a JUCO All-American. Says he's a max effort guy that probably will get hurt.

The amazing thing to me is their is no conspiracy. Thirty teams can see it differently and draft. They didn't. It is just hard to understand. My kid was drafted out of high school and I predicted the round exactly (was lucky, he was 35th as a DNF). I agree with Fungo, I can see why all were drafted, it is just hard to understand why some aren't.

Like everyone else the draft perplexes me though I will say it appears MLB GMs are increasingly putting some kids on the fast track through minors and even drafting smaller players.

I think where we are all missing it is we're assuming every team tries to pick a player who'll maybe have a chance to one day make it to the majors. I've concluded their logic in drafting in the later rounds is more business oriented.

So few late picks ever make it that I believe they consider a few other aspects more so than pure ability.

- the draw potential of later picks to minor league games Daddy was a player, actor whatever might bring em out to the low A league.

- Friends of friends...might as well make a friend or otherwise someone in power happy. Since they're never gonna make it anyway who cares. Mike Piazza was picked as a favor to Lasorda.

Why should we believe baseball is any different than anything else...after the first 10-15 rounds it's not what you know but who knows you.
I've seen these guys that run camps etc. get kids picked as a favor. Kids who were career .220 hitters and backups in college. Besides they draft so many soooo fast it's gotta be like "hey it's our turn what we got" uhhh well we got 5 names" "anyone know any of em" "..uh yeah I think this one's Dad is a friend of Petie from Frisco" ...OK we'll take him.

What I would like to see is one honest insider tell it like it really is on a typical draft day.

The vast majority of low rounds picks don't make it, and the final round in particular sometimes consists of "nepotism" picks.

My own son was drafted last week in the 45th round as a DNF. (He was NOT a nepotism pick, I should add). Out of curiosity, I looked at how other players drafted in that round in the past have fared. I focused on players picked between 1990 and 2000, since there are players drafted after that who could still work their way up.

By my reckoning, out of 270 players drafted in the 45th round, only 17 (6.3%) have played at least some in the majors:

Drafted in 1990 - Allen Battle, Ricky Otero, Travis Baptist
1991 -- Jacob Cruz, Bronson Heflin
1992 -- Robert Fick, Jeff DaVanon
1993 -- Frank Menechino, Bob Howry
1995 -- Casey Blake
1996 -- Chris Capuano, Mike Rose
1997 -- Joe Thurston
1998 -- Terrmel Sledge, Tomas Perez, Brad Voyles
2000 -- Luke Scott

I should add that some of these guys were later drafted in a higher round. For instance, Capuano was first drafted in the 45th round out of high school in '96, but went to college instead of signing. He was subsequently re-drafted in the 8th round.

Although the odds are long, there are some fairly successful late round picks, including Mark Buehrle (38), Kenny Rogers (39), Keith Hernandez (42), Julio Lugo (43), Jason Isringhausen (44), Vance Wilson (44), Kyle Farnsworth (47), Marcus Giles (53), and, famously, Mike Piazza (62).

Am I under any illusions that my son will make it to "the Show"? No. In fact, I'd be surprised if he ever signs a minor league contract. Six out of 100 aren't the kind of odds that work for me. He's much better off getting a degree. Nevertheless, I'm proud of him for still being in the running, and if he has great season next year, who knows ...?

Radioball
Did you know your son was going to be drafted? If so, did he get a visit from a scout or a call? The 45th round to me is better then not getting drafted at all.

RadioBall... I would agree that it's best to play the odds when talking about the 45th round. However, like worrymom says, better to be drafted at 45 than not at all. If my son (who's in college) was drafted, regardless of round when eligible again, I'd give my blessing to go for it! Be realistic with that 6% chance, but enjoy every minute of the opportunity would be my advice!!

Maybe I am a bit optimistic (or naive), but a 6% chance as a 45th rounder sounds pretty good to me. There are a lot of jobs with much lower odds of making it to the highest level. How many people at NASA ever get to the moon, how many business men or women ever become the CEO of the company they work for. I say you can alwasy go back to school to finish, chase your dreams, you only get 1 shot at that.

HOW COULD ANY SCOUT THINK A KID WAS TO SMALL TO MAKE IT TO THE BIG LEAGUES? lOOK AT THE SHORT STOP ON THE ST. LOUIS CARDNALS TEAM. He is small. I can't even think of his name. lol

This is just my opinion but I am not sure if it is lack of talent or lack of staying power. Those drafted in later rounds, get some bonus money and a plane ticket, 1250 a month for six months. Unless they have rich parents they have to work during the off season, while others, who may have gotten significant money to subsidize them for a few years spend time in the off season training for the opportunity to get better.
JMO.

worrymom ...

That little guy would be former Anaheim Angel shortstop David Eckstein ... he is very very very small but as some would say, where there is a will there is a way. 2006 World Series MVP ... not too bad for a little guy.

How could I forget his name? I am losing my mind. I like that saying, Where theres a will theres a way.
Thankyou for helping me out.

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
Was reading a report on a H.S. LHP that they had at 86-88 mph touching 90 mph on occassion and it went on to read that he lacks present velocity! Must admit I was scratching my head a bit.

Now that is a potential thing. Many people who are drafted out of HS do have potential. Another thing why alot of guys who are College grads and not drafted is because many teams want younger. many people want as young as you can get. at 22 alot of teams think "Well he is to old" because most guys spend a year or 2 in the minors before being brought to the MLB. So its also an age think.

quote:

Originally posted by lebanonbb:

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
Was reading a report on a H.S. LHP that they had at 86-88 mph touching 90 mph on occassion and it went on to read that he lacks present velocity! Must admit I was scratching my head a bit.

Now that is a potential thing. Many people who are drafted out of HS do have potential. Another thing why alot of guys who are College grads and not drafted is because many teams want younger. many people want as young as you can get. at 22 alot of teams think "Well he is to old" because most guys spend a year or 2 in the minors before being brought to the MLB. So its also an age think.

Lebanon,
If you go do some homework, you will find that more college players get drafted earlier than you might think. A healthy LHP at 22 who throws mid 90's and has proven himself against good competition and close to MLB potential will get the nod before a HS LHP who may be throwing at his max potential of high 80's. Check out Andrew Miller (2006 draft).

Go check out the top 100 college top prospects and you will find many LHP throwing above 95. Some of those players will most likely get to the 40 man roster before the HS player. yes, there are good reasons why players should sign out of HS, but being too old at 22 is not one of them.Many teams do like to draft HS only, and develop their pitching prospects, but there are many teams who draft college players first, many.
My son is a college junior (RHP) and seems to have MLB team interest for the upcoming draft. I do believe that if they thought he was too old, they wouldn't bother sending out paperwork, making phone calls or sending their scouts to watch him. His team mate, LHP throwing above 95 is a projected first rounder.
Just FYI, I don't think they are the only college players to be in that situation.

I'm looking for some information from anyone here who may be able to provide us with some direction. This may not be the right place to post, but I know a lot of you posting on this thread have a lot of experience with college and the draft.

My son played JUCO baseball for two years. He was drafted both years - DNF in the late rounds on his first draft. Moved up 19 rounds in his second draft by another team. He also had committed to a top 10 D1 program and opted to honor that commitment.

During the fall he came down with tendonitis (no longer has this) and during the course of his rehab he encountered some other health problems - not related to baseball. His dad became unemployed in December so between the college expenses and the medical expenses left after insurance was paid he was no longer able to afford to stay in school.

He wants very much to continue with baseball and is talking about going to pro tryouts this spring. Yesterday his doctor told him that he can engage in normal physical activities with no restrictions. My question is: What impact will this situation have on him this spring? Will this be considered a "problem" by scouts? Can he only sign with the team that drafted him this past June? Or, is he able to attend tryouts for any team that holds an open tryout?

We have also discussed the possibility of him going back to school in the fall if the financial situation improves. We know there is no guarantee that he can return to the same school, but his discussion with the coach about his situation was good. If he is able to return to school, any school, how much eligibility will he have left? Will he still have 2 years or does his attendance in the fall count as a year of eligibility even though he did not play in the spring?

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

quote:

Originally posted by lebanonbb:

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
Was reading a report on a H.S. LHP that they had at 86-88 mph touching 90 mph on occassion and it went on to read that he lacks present velocity! Must admit I was scratching my head a bit.

Now that is a potential thing. Many people who are drafted out of HS do have potential. Another thing why alot of guys who are College grads and not drafted is because many teams want younger. many people want as young as you can get. at 22 alot of teams think "Well he is to old" because most guys spend a year or 2 in the minors before being brought to the MLB. So its also an age think.

Lebanon,
If you go do some homework, you will find that more college players get drafted earlier than you might think. A healthy LHP at 22 who throws mid 90's and has proven himself against good competition and close to MLB potential will get the nod before a HS LHP who may be throwing at his max potential of high 80's. Check out Andrew Miller (2006 draft).

Go check out the top 100 college top prospects and you will find many LHP throwing above 95. Some of those players will most likely get to the 40 man roster before the HS player. yes, there are good reasons why players should sign out of HS, but being too old at 22 is not one of them.Many teams do like to draft HS only, and develop their pitching prospects, but there are many teams who draft college players first, many.
My son is a college junior (RHP) and seems to have MLB team interest for the upcoming draft. I do believe that if they thought he was too old, they wouldn't bother sending out paperwork, making phone calls or sending their scouts to watch him. His team mate, LHP throwing above 95 is a projected first rounder.
Just FYI, I don't think they are the only college players to be in that situation.

Im sorry I offended you and your son but I have many people on other message boards who would agree with me no doubt. I remember not to long ago that I was talking to a guy who was mad because his favorite player passed up going in the drafted to go play at UT. Prospectors beleive that the younger,the better. I somewhat agree and somewhat dont... I actually think that a guy who goes to college is no doubt smarter(mentally) than a guy who comes out of HS. Just think,A HS guy gets drafted in the 20th round and he says Im going to play in the minors and then be a star,4 years later he is stuck in AAA and is about to get moved to AA. Just think,in those 4 years he has wasted going from rookie to A he could have been getting a degree so if he does fail then he does have a back-up plan. Just MO.

quote:

I'm looking for some information from anyone here who may be able to provide us with some direction. This may not be the right place to post, but I know a lot of you posting on this thread have a lot of experience with college and the draft.


My son played JUCO baseball for two years. He was drafted both years - DNF in the late rounds on his first draft. Moved up 19 rounds in his second draft by another team. He also had committed to a top 10 D1 program and opted to honor that commitment.

During the fall he came down with tendonitis (no longer has this) and during the course of his rehab he encountered some other health problems - not related to baseball. His dad became unemployed in December so between the college expenses and the medical expenses left after insurance was paid he was no longer able to afford to stay in school.

He wants very much to continue with baseball and is talking about going to pro tryouts this spring. Yesterday his doctor told him that he can engage in normal physical activities with no restrictions. My question is: What impact will this situation have on him this spring? Will this be considered a "problem" by scouts? Can he only sign with the team that drafted him this past June? Or, is he able to attend tryouts for any team that holds an open tryout?

We have also discussed the possibility of him going back to school in the fall if the financial situation improves. We know there is no guarantee that he can return to the same school, but his discussion with the coach about his situation was good. If he is able to return to school, any school, how much eligibility will he have left? Will he still have 2 years or does his attendance in the fall count as a year of eligibility even though he did not play in the spring?

I have some experience and will try to answer your question, but please check out the answers with the appropriate people just to be sure.

Scouts are going to be concerned with anyone who has a health history. They will also be concerned that he is not attending college. However, both those things will be secondary to his ability and present health, especially once things are explained. He should be eligible for this years draft if he “was” enrolled in college this year. He can not sign with the club that drafted him last year if he was enrolled in college. If he is not drafted this year and he is 21 years old he can sign as a free agent with any club. Once he attended class at a 4 year school the club that drafted him no longer has control of him. I would imagine he can attend tryouts as anyone else can.

Sounds like he should have 2 years of eligibility left, but this needs to be handled through the college he attends. Seems like he should already know this, if he has talked to his college coach.

Best of luck, sounds like your son is very talented

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

I have some experience and will try to answer your question, but please check out the answers with the appropriate people just to be sure.

Scouts are going to be concerned with anyone who has a health history. They will also be concerned that he is not attending college. However, both those things will be secondary to his ability and present health, especially once things are explained. He should be eligible for this years draft if he “was” enrolled in college this year. He can not sign with the club that drafted him last year if he was enrolled in college. If he is not drafted this year and he is 21 years old he can sign as a free agent with any club. Once he attended class at a 4 year school the club that drafted him no longer has control of him. I would imagine he can attend tryouts as anyone else can.

Sounds like he should have 2 years of eligibility left, but this needs to be handled through the college he attends. Seems like he should already know this, if he has talked to his college coach.

Best of luck, sounds like your son is very talented

Thanks for the response.

If I understand you correctly, does this mean he cannot sign as a free agent with any team until after the upcoming draft this June?

Also, is he free to talk to scouts from other teams about his status? I know during the DNF there are certain things he could not do, but does this still apply in his current situation? The main reason I ask is because a friend of his is considering attending a pre-draft workout in Macon Georgia. Apparently you have to be nominated by a scout in order to attend. During JUCO ball he met quite a few scouts and is considering asking one of them to help him with an invitation to this workout. Would this be an unethical thing for him to do? He is trying to make contact with the scout who drafted him this past year, but has not reached him yet.

quote:

Thanks for the response.

If I understand you correctly, does this mean he cannot sign as a free agent with any team until after the upcoming draft this June?

Also, is he free to talk to scouts from other teams about his status? I know during the DNF there are certain things he could not do, but does this still apply in his current situation? The main reason I ask is because a friend of his is considering attending a pre-draft workout in Macon Georgia. Apparently you have to be nominated by a scout in order to attend. During JUCO ball he met quite a few scouts and is considering asking one of them to help him with an invitation to this workout. Would this be an unethical thing for him to do? He is trying to make contact with the scout who drafted him this past year, but has not reached him yet.

If I understand his situation correctly, he must go through this years draft and he is free to talk to anyone he wants. He is no longer under control!

If he attends any predraft workout he should check out the history of that event. It is very important that a predraft showcase has some high level national scouts in attendance. Otherwise, what can a player possibly gain in such a short time before the draft.

Other than the private workouts that clubs hold before the draft, I only know of "one" Predraft that can and has a history of making a big difference and that one draws Scouting Directors and/or GMs. Area scouts will either have him turned in or not by the time "predraft" events are held.

If an event is held in Macon, I would contact the closest Scouting Director to Macon. (Atlanta Braves) Find out if their Scouting Director or any crosscheckers will be there. In fact, you might want to check if they even have a full time scout who will attend. So often the person atteneding is an "associate" (Bird Dog) who a few weeks before the draft can do nothing for a player!

Ask around and you can find out.
Braves - Scouting Director - Roy Clark
Braves - Crosschecker for SE - Paul Faulk
Braves - Supervisor for that area - Al Goetz

If the Atlanta Braves aren't there in Macon, why would anyone else attend?

Feel free to email me if you want to reach the names above... My email - jerry@perfectgame.org

Thanks,PG. Email sent.

quote:

Originally posted by lebanonbb:

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

quote:

Originally posted by lebanonbb:

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
Was reading a report on a H.S. LHP that they had at 86-88 mph touching 90 mph on occassion and it went on to read that he lacks present velocity! Must admit I was scratching my head a bit.

Now that is a potential thing. Many people who are drafted out of HS do have potential. Another thing why alot of guys who are College grads and not drafted is because many teams want younger. many people want as young as you can get. at 22 alot of teams think "Well he is to old" because most guys spend a year or 2 in the minors before being brought to the MLB. So its also an age think.

Lebanon,
If you go do some homework, you will find that more college players get drafted earlier than you might think. A healthy LHP at 22 who throws mid 90's and has proven himself against good competition and close to MLB potential will get the nod before a HS LHP who may be throwing at his max potential of high 80's. Check out Andrew Miller (2006 draft).

Go check out the top 100 college top prospects and you will find many LHP throwing above 95. Some of those players will most likely get to the 40 man roster before the HS player. yes, there are good reasons why players should sign out of HS, but being too old at 22 is not one of them.Many teams do like to draft HS only, and develop their pitching prospects, but there are many teams who draft college players first, many.
My son is a college junior (RHP) and seems to have MLB team interest for the upcoming draft. I do believe that if they thought he was too old, they wouldn't bother sending out paperwork, making phone calls or sending their scouts to watch him. His team mate, LHP throwing above 95 is a projected first rounder.
Just FYI, I don't think they are the only college players to be in that situation.

Im sorry I offended you and your son but I have many people on other message boards who would agree with me no doubt. I remember not to long ago that I was talking to a guy who was mad because his favorite player passed up going in the drafted to go play at UT. Prospectors beleive that the younger,the better. I somewhat agree and somewhat dont... I actually think that a guy who goes to college is no doubt smarter(mentally) than a guy who comes out of HS. Just think,A HS guy gets drafted in the 20th round and he says Im going to play in the minors and then be a star,4 years later he is stuck in AAA and is about to get moved to AA. Just think,in those 4 years he has wasted going from rookie to A he could have been getting a degree so if he does fail then he does have a back-up plan. Just MO.

I am not offended by your post, but the above is completely opposite of your first post, IMO.

Please, let me know of how many players (I know there are some),you might know who spent only one or two years out of HS before they went to MLB.
Thanks.

BTW, what's a prospector?