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Thriller, couldn't agree more. I looked up the box score from this "game" and it doesn't look real. Newbury College is in their first year having a varsity baseball team.
What goes around usually comes around. This was bad.
What goes around usually comes around. This was bad.
In my opinion, based on what he let his team do to this "hapless" team, the Bridgewater State College coach, is an idiot!
Coach....Have you ever heard of the word: Sportsmanship?
Coach....Have you ever heard of the word: Sportsmanship?
20 walks, 4 hit by pitches, 5 errors and it looks like everyone on the roster got up at least 3 times other than the pitchers. What are you going to do? Tell a kid not to swing. I would never run it up on someone purposely but it looks like nothing could have been done on this one. Box score link
This is a very hard topic
Of course the score questions sportsmanshhip
But its not like football where you can take a knee or just run into someone...or like basketball where you play 4 corners and run the clock. If you look at the amount of walks and HBP...I am assuming the pitchers were not missing by an inch so what can you do?
Also...why did the game go 7 innings....how could a coach leave a kid in there to give up 19 runs and the next 11....this game should have never went beyond 5
Of course the score questions sportsmanshhip
But its not like football where you can take a knee or just run into someone...or like basketball where you play 4 corners and run the clock. If you look at the amount of walks and HBP...I am assuming the pitchers were not missing by an inch so what can you do?
Also...why did the game go 7 innings....how could a coach leave a kid in there to give up 19 runs and the next 11....this game should have never went beyond 5
Si and Indians,
You both make very valid points. There is always more to something like this than we know. Maybe when the team went up by 20 runs or so they could have let some postion players pitch. Most college players have pitched in their younger days. JMO.
You both make very valid points. There is always more to something like this than we know. Maybe when the team went up by 20 runs or so they could have let some postion players pitch. Most college players have pitched in their younger days. JMO.
This is a tough topic, and from previous discussions, I know I am in the minority on this one. Let me preface it by saying, intentionally running up the score is childish, but not I don't believe it leaves any lasting scars.
Last summer during a tournament, another team was beating our brains in, by something like 17 runs after 2 innings. The other team continued to steal bases, hit and run, and bunt for base hits. We were playing like pansies. My son (who was in the duguout having pitched the game before), told me that a couple of the players were griping about the other team still putting it to them. I told my son if he ever tells me that, I'll grab him by the shirt and tell him if he doesn't like it, then make a stinkin' play.
Life doesn't coddle us. Our bosses/shareholders and people depending on us to make a living aren't going to tell us that if we are beating the competitions brains in, in business, maybe we should lighten up on them. I just don't believe we should make sports a place to learn fantasy lessons that have no application to life. Sports are meant to be competitive and so is life and nature.
I'll step down off my soapbox and take my drubbing like a man now.
Last summer during a tournament, another team was beating our brains in, by something like 17 runs after 2 innings. The other team continued to steal bases, hit and run, and bunt for base hits. We were playing like pansies. My son (who was in the duguout having pitched the game before), told me that a couple of the players were griping about the other team still putting it to them. I told my son if he ever tells me that, I'll grab him by the shirt and tell him if he doesn't like it, then make a stinkin' play.
Life doesn't coddle us. Our bosses/shareholders and people depending on us to make a living aren't going to tell us that if we are beating the competitions brains in, in business, maybe we should lighten up on them. I just don't believe we should make sports a place to learn fantasy lessons that have no application to life. Sports are meant to be competitive and so is life and nature.
I'll step down off my soapbox and take my drubbing like a man now.
Probably a game that shouldn't have been scheduled. I think if it was my team, I would have had them swinging regardless of where the ball was.
Maybe at some point the losing team could have asked to end the game once it was a joke.
Maybe at some point the losing team could have asked to end the game once it was a joke.
Rosey,
I agree that there may be more to this than meets the eye, but, the article in question does nothing more than highlite the team and individual records that were set. It seems to me that those guys getting 6,7,or 8 abs should have been sitting most of the game. We don't know all of the particulars but when the game is done and you flaunt those records that were broken it is almost pointing to the fact that you were looking for records to begin with.
When you score 13,9,9,16,and 8 runs in the first 5 innings, something stinks. When the season ends and team stats are mentioned there should be an astrick that denoteds a "beatdown". There comes a time when "respect" factors into a competitive event. 20 walks, 44 hits, and 4hbp should be reason enough to count that game as an exibition and not compare it to hard fought competitive games.
I agree that there may be more to this than meets the eye, but, the article in question does nothing more than highlite the team and individual records that were set. It seems to me that those guys getting 6,7,or 8 abs should have been sitting most of the game. We don't know all of the particulars but when the game is done and you flaunt those records that were broken it is almost pointing to the fact that you were looking for records to begin with.
When you score 13,9,9,16,and 8 runs in the first 5 innings, something stinks. When the season ends and team stats are mentioned there should be an astrick that denoteds a "beatdown". There comes a time when "respect" factors into a competitive event. 20 walks, 44 hits, and 4hbp should be reason enough to count that game as an exibition and not compare it to hard fought competitive games.
CPLZ
I think you have a good point....looking back I know that athletics shaped me for life. The whole rocky quote "I didn't hear no bell" Running everything out, always playing hard, and never stop playing until the last out/buzzer...thats what life is
In the case of stealing bases up 17....thats bush league and thats not right. It is one thing if the catcher cant catch the ball...but staright stealing up 17 is wrong
Swinging at anthing close is making a Joke out of the game, thats a little league thing
The regulars on the winning team should have been pulled after the 3rd inning
I think you have a good point....looking back I know that athletics shaped me for life. The whole rocky quote "I didn't hear no bell" Running everything out, always playing hard, and never stop playing until the last out/buzzer...thats what life is
In the case of stealing bases up 17....thats bush league and thats not right. It is one thing if the catcher cant catch the ball...but staright stealing up 17 is wrong
Swinging at anthing close is making a Joke out of the game, thats a little league thing
The regulars on the winning team should have been pulled after the 3rd inning
We had a game my son's senior season in high school. In the first inning, you could tell the other team had no business being out there. Our starters had one at bat and it was 9-0 before the other team made an out. Our coach replaced the regulars in the first inning. By the bottom of the second, we had our third stringers in which were JV guys who got to dress. Our JV guys started pouring it on and there was not really much more you could do at that point. It got to be 25-1 before the mercy rule kicked in and ended it. There was no base stealing and station to station baseball only. That was about the only way it could be handled imo. Asking players to do any less would risk injury imho. Some suggested having our players bat opposite handed but I think that would have been a terrible idea.
quote:Originally posted by indians08:
The regulars on the winning team should have been pulled after the 3rd inning
Or sooner! Those guys on the bench deserve a chance to show what they have and to play.
I suppose I should have given my story a little context, but was trying not to be long winded. The opposing coach explained that the game was being heavily scouted, pro and college, and that he didn't think it fair to not allow his players to show their skills. I pretty much understood that. I suppose at that time, it becomes a debate between the coaches or players best interests and which should be served.
I am just opposed to competitive mercy. As well intentioned adults, I think we get too caught up in it and it winds up taking some twisted form that is ultimately a farce. The destiny of the game is in the players hands, let them play and don't ever tell a player to go easy. Substitute players, make in game conservative decisions, but ultimately, let the players play. My hats off to the the team that takes a woodshed beating and never gripes. They jumped off the porch and ran in the tall grass with the big dogs...good for them.
quote:The destiny of the game is in the players hands, let them play and don't ever tell a player to go easy. Substitute players, make in game conservative decisions, but ultimately, let the players play.
To do anything less risks getting someone hurt as noted above.
There is a very simple solution to the problem:
Create a 25 run lead after 2 inning rule.
20 after 3 innings.
15 after 4.
10 after 5.
and so on.
We need it in the Illinois HS playoffs as well.
The fact that the NCAA and IHSA miss this is an example of just how LAME they both are!
Create a 25 run lead after 2 inning rule.
20 after 3 innings.
15 after 4.
10 after 5.
and so on.
We need it in the Illinois HS playoffs as well.
The fact that the NCAA and IHSA miss this is an example of just how LAME they both are!
I think the NCAA is dependent on the notion that teams should not be playing opponents this inferior. And I sort of agree with it. A team like Newbury simply should not have a varsity program if their roster is 15 players and they have 4 total pitchers (I looked at their homepage.) Coaches have to look out for the best interests of their players. Sure, they want to play a varsity schedule and be competitive, but when games are this out of hand, then something is definitely wrong.
Personally, I don't think their should be a mercy rule in college baseball asides from the 7 inning rule (which Bridgewater St. won by.) The NCAA wants its game to mirror professional baseball as much as possible. Playing 3 inning games in college due to slaughter rule is absolutely ridiculous, no matter how you look at it. If a team cannot field a team that can lets less than 20 walks per ball game, then they should simply not be playing NCAA baseball at this juncture. And it's not good that these players have to face a 57-1, of course...but as optimistic as you want to be, can you seriously expect to compete when you have such a disadvantage as they do?
Personally, I don't think their should be a mercy rule in college baseball asides from the 7 inning rule (which Bridgewater St. won by.) The NCAA wants its game to mirror professional baseball as much as possible. Playing 3 inning games in college due to slaughter rule is absolutely ridiculous, no matter how you look at it. If a team cannot field a team that can lets less than 20 walks per ball game, then they should simply not be playing NCAA baseball at this juncture. And it's not good that these players have to face a 57-1, of course...but as optimistic as you want to be, can you seriously expect to compete when you have such a disadvantage as they do?
All of you make great points, and it is hard to judge what the best solution might be. But I pose a question to you all, after the initial drubbing, whatever point that was, maybe the coaches agreed that they should continue playing so Newbury could get some playing time and experience.
Not to discredit any of our high school or travel teams, but on occasion, this sort of agreement was made just so those teams could get some playing time and experience. Just maybe.
Not to discredit any of our high school or travel teams, but on occasion, this sort of agreement was made just so those teams could get some playing time and experience. Just maybe.
Here's something from the other side of the spectrum. I had an opposing coach criticize me this year for one of my players stealing third base with a 6 run lead in the 5th inning. He said I was trying to run up the score and embarass them. At this point in the game we had battled back from a 6-0 deficit and were winning 12-6. While I did not call the steal, the player had a read on the pitcher and took the base.
I defended my player to the coach and explained that a six run lead was not insurmountable because they scored six runs in the second innning. I would not have called a steal myself in that situation, but I didn't think it was out of line given the circumstances of the game.
My question is when do you call off the dogs and consider a game "in the bag?" 6 runs, 7 runs 10 runs? I guess everyone will have a different opinion on this one, and it does depend on game circumstances, but I've seen some weird things and would hate to take something for granted and have it come back to bite us since I always talk about not overlooking any team and not taking games, plays and situations for granted.
I defended my player to the coach and explained that a six run lead was not insurmountable because they scored six runs in the second innning. I would not have called a steal myself in that situation, but I didn't think it was out of line given the circumstances of the game.
My question is when do you call off the dogs and consider a game "in the bag?" 6 runs, 7 runs 10 runs? I guess everyone will have a different opinion on this one, and it does depend on game circumstances, but I've seen some weird things and would hate to take something for granted and have it come back to bite us since I always talk about not overlooking any team and not taking games, plays and situations for granted.
I think that with a 10 run lead it would be reasonable to stop running on the other team. I have seen plenty of teams have big innings and quickly get back in the game. Sometimes when that happens it is hard to stop the momentum. You can always go back to your running game if you blow the lead.