This man is a hero....

Tough spot.

What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

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There is no question from anyone that our healthcare insurance system is in need of reform.

We need to include all aspects of the system when analyzing what needs to be fixed.

We need to involve everyone who is interested in helping to arrive at a solution.

We need to support and elect candidates who understand and will work diligently to meet the expectations of us, the voters.

We need to be honest.

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That's a sad situation and I admire the father/husband for his creativity in finding a way to provide for his family. But, I don't see how our country is messed up from that unfortunate story. Some times unfortunate things happen at bad times. I agree, coach2709, we need more men like him. In my view, this is a story of what has made our country great over the years....not an illustration of how messed up it is.

I don't think it was this guys first choice to join the army to get health care benefits for his family. I would consider it a desperate, brave choice. One of millions of desperate situations people are in these days.

If our two major parties could have some intelligent discussions on health care reform instead of childish name calling and game playing something acceptable to a lot of people could be completed.

quote:

If our two major parties could have some intelligent discussions on health care reform instead of childish name calling and game playing something acceptable to a lot of people could be completed.

I can't figure what the problem is.
I have had 21 laser surgeries in each eye or I would be blind. I have had skin care for the last 30 years including surgeries, liquid nitrogen treatment and check ups ever 4 months for skin damage. I wonder where I would be without it.
I haven't paid 1 dime for the treatment. wake up every morning knowing my kids are covered and I don't have to think twice about seeking medical care.
I just can't see the problem.

Bobble,

I'm not familiar with the system in Canada....where does the money come from if you haven't paid a dime?

By the way, that was a great story of a guy doing what he had to do..."getting the job done" in a way many of us can't imagine.

It is built into the tax system. The wealthy pay most of the burden while those who have low or no income do not risk losing their health care. The burden is spread out fairly.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
That's a sad situation and I admire the father/husband for his creativity in finding a way to provide for his family. But, I don't see how our country is messed up from that unfortunate story. Some times unfortunate things happen at bad times. I agree, coach2709, we need more men like him. In my view, this is a story of what has made our country great over the years....not an illustration of how messed up it is.

I agree this should be a story to celebrate the American spirit of making things happen and getting the job done but you did a better job of explaining that. Overall the travesty is that a country as rich and plentiful as America is this guy has to resort to this to pay for his sick wife.

There has to be a way to provide EVERYONE competent medical coverage while still allowing those who can better access and doctors the ability be capitalists and make money. Nobody in this country should not have healthcare. I'm smart enough to see the problem but unfortunately I'm not smart enough to have an answer.

[/QUOTE]

I can't figure what the problem is.
I have had 21 laser surgeries in each eye or I would be blind. I have had skin care for the last 30 years including surgeries, liquid nitrogen treatment and check ups ever 4 months for skin damage. I wonder where I would be without it.
I haven't paid 1 dime for the treatment. wake up every morning knowing my kids are covered and I don't have to think twice about seeking medical care.
I just can't see the problem.[/QUOTE]


Among the many problems of this government run healthcare program are what would happen to the availability of care in America...read what Canadians do when they can't get the care they want. This article is written by a Canadian doctor...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2231416/


Our current medical system is operating at the maximum level now with existing waiting lists for important appointments and surgeries. What would happen if another 46 million (Whitehouse estimate) people were suddenly added to the system? Chances are we would end up with even longer waiting periods and a priority system with the government or some other authority saying who gets what care. I'm not comfortable with that thought and I don't think many other Americans are either.

I was in the ER a couple of days ago with my son who broke his nose and saw many people there being treated who were unable to pay and they were not turned away. A sign at the entrance of the ER states that regardless of the ability to pay the medical staff will treat you. The fact is when someone needs medical care in this country they get it whether they can pay for it or not.

The common misunderstanding among some people who live outside this country is that sick people are being turned away at the hospital doors. Of course this is just plain hogwash. However, this does not serve the political purposes among those who want the government to control healthcare.

Just think. If we got rid of the 12 to 20 million illegals using our health care services, the hospitals would have a much easier time treating American citizens who couldn't afford the services.

quote:

Originally posted by Strike 3:
Just think. If we got rid of the 12 to 20 million illegals using our health care services, the hospitals would have a much easier time treating American citizens who couldn't afford the services.

Uh oh Strike 3, you opened it up now...

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quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm smart enough to see the problem but unfortunately I'm not smart enough to have an answer.

That's what I'm talking about...be honest!

Seriously...your honesty, along with the honesty of almost all of the rest of us, is needed.

We may not know what the best solution might be, but I think we have good sense as to what won't work.

In the meantime there will be situations that require actions similar to those utilized by Bill Caudle.


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Annelids under a lid!




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quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
It is built into the tax system. The wealthy pay most of the burden while those who have low or no income do not risk losing their health care. The burden is spread out fairly.

So then you have paid for your coverage? I think a common misconception of the proposals we are seeing now is that health care will be free. It is most certainly not free, unless of course you don't pay your taxes....

And I wonder what those wealthy folks that pay for most of the country to have health care think about whether or not it's "fair".

Strike 3. Your post regarding the cost, or even free availability of healthcare for illegal aliens surely didn't open any can of worms for me, and shouldn't for anyone who doesn't call themselves a socialist.

Amazing reading here. As long as someone else is paying, people think healthcare is free and everything is just fine. The Canadian system is in desperate need of private insurers, and there is a big shortage of doctors. Our new neighbors from London, Ontario are both MD's,and decided to get out. It must be pretty bad for doctors in Canada if they came here at this time.

quote:

As long as someone else is paying, people think healthcare is free and everything is just fine. The Canadian system is in desperate need of private insurers, and there is a big shortage of doctors. Our new neighbors from London, Ontario are both MD's,and decided to get out. It must be pretty bad for doctors in Canada if they came here at this time.

Great summary of the misinformation on this topic. Clearly it's not free overall, but there are big segments that seem to think there's a free lunch in here somewhere for them.

The Canada quality of care is the interesting thing to me. Everything I hear is for innovative care, Canadians come to the US. I hear for non-life threatening situations, the waits are long in Canada...clearly not the case here.

We read about the potential long lines and delays in getting H1N1 shots...get ready, that's what the proposals will give you in a health care rationing environment. And, for middle and upper class people you will pay more for the lower quality and less timely care.

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quote:

Originally posted by itsrosy:
Our new neighbors from London, Ontario are both MD's,and decided to get out. It must be pretty bad for doctors in Canada if they came here at this time.

I think painting the entire north exposure of your house like this...



...may have had a hypnotic effect on your good neighbors from Ontario.


Of course your Tiki Torches© along the drive may have attracted them as well...



...you did say their last name was Mauthe didn't you?




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No one said it was free.

Coach those stories are pure garbage. In all my 64 years I have waited for nothing. Nor did any of my eight siblings or my kids.
I have never seen so many stories about Americans losing homes etc because they are not covered.
Yes all medical systems are taxed to the limit. We have lost tons of doctors because of government claw backs on them. Unfortunately governments are run by idiots.
I can't think of one story about people here that have had to wait. If a patient is in immediate need they are bumped to the head of the list and often get immediate care.
There are way too many patients who know more than their doctors and go to the US and pay for their care.
It is not free it is universal care. No one has to worry about losing their home and having debt that they can't pat. I know several people who have got sick in the US and hadn't taken out travel insurance. they got care but got a bill in the mail. One was for $64,000 dollars. I pay $800 a year for my son while at college.
Insurance here spreads the financial burden across the tax base. Not a tough concept since that is the concept of all tax theory.

Itsrosy it was pretty bad. The government set limits on what they can charge under the OHIP system. If they went over that they had to give it back. They like my one friend who had a $100,000 claw back refused and left for the US. My friend went to Kentucky and bought a million dollar home. He started his own practice after turning down several partnership offers. He told me he couldn't believe the line up of patients and what he could charge.
Pretty tough when you can but a million in your 40s.

"The number of medical tourism companies in Canada is growing. At present, however, these businesses are relatively small, have few employees, and appear to have a limited client base. As these companies become better known, standardize their operations, and benefit from considerable media coverage, it is possible that more Canadians will travel to other countries for treatment. Interest in the medical tourism option will likely decline if Canadians gain improved local access to elective surgical procedures, such as hip and knee replacements. If waiting lists persist or lengthen, however, medical tourism companies might succeed in “outsourcing” treatment for more Canadians seeking immediate care. "

I like the Socialist comment. I am furthest thing from a socialist. I also recognize that there is socialistic needs in every society. Taxation is based on filling common needs.
After some of the comments I can see how misinformed some of you are about universal health care.
The problem s we have had are based on politicians squeezing the health care system for political gains.
Today they have reversed that political mind set. We are building huge medical centers. All of a sudden there is money for everyone.
What your doctor neighbors forgot to tell you was they were making a ton of money and just wanted a lot more.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
No one said it was free.

Of course not. But that's only for the "big" taxpayers. And, they can afford it anyway. So, what's the problem? Now I get it.

Tx-Husker, When your great state secedes from this Union, I hope you'll allow a couple of Yankees (with papers, of course) to take up roots! Love that Texas barbeque!

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I can't figure what the problem is.
I have had 21 laser surgeries in each eye or I would be blind. I have had skin care for the last 30 years including surgeries, liquid nitrogen treatment and check ups ever 4 months for skin damage. I wonder where I would be without it.
I haven't paid 1 dime for the treatment. wake up every morning knowing my kids are covered and I don't have to think twice about seeking medical care.
I just can't see the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Unfortunately governments are run by idiots.

BINGO!!!

I think the fear of the infiltration of politics and political favors is a huge concern.

The problem is that there are thousands if not millions of people in the US who have no health care. Lack of health care leads to even more serious problems.
I have never heard of stories here like the ones I hear in the US.
I hope Obama can get a universal health care system so that all Americans don't have to think twice about getting to a doctor until things get out of hand.

quote:

I was in the ER a couple of days ago with my son who broke his nose and saw many people there being treated who were unable to pay and they were not turned away. A sign at the entrance of the ER states that regardless of the ability to pay the medical staff will treat you. The fact is when someone needs medical care in this country they get it whether they can pay for it or not

This may be true, but what about the followup.

Lack of healthcare causes deaths.

Come on down, itsrosy. Don't wait for that. It's warm and the economy's good (relatively speaking).

No one dies in Texas, can't speak for the other states, because of lack of health insurance. Maybe because they decided not to go to the hospital, but not for lack of insurance. County run hospitals cannot turn away patients.

BHD,

Somehow the stories persist of Canadians coming to America for their medical treatment...

I'm sorry I do not know anyone who has lost their home because they have failed to pay their medical bills in my 52 years. I've known people who couldn't pay for their bills, but stil live in their home.

Hey, you like your Canadian healthcare system and that's great, but I don't believe this government or any government can run a more efficient health care system. I don't trust our government
...they lie...especially when it comes to politicians painting rosy pictures of this and that and how them and only them can make it better.

Politicians lie to get elected and keep ahold of their power by maintaining the lies. They promise this and that and define themselves as so kind because they want to give away my hard earned tax dollars. What is so kind about making me and everyone else pay more taxes so they can give away to get elected with populist causes? Nobody said the Rockefeller, Kennedys, Kerrys and all the other enormously wealthy politicians (both Democrat and Republican) couldn't freely give their money to these causes they are now trying to make me pay for. They have become guilty of their wealth and want to appear generous by giving away money that does not belong to them. And make no mistake about it, this government healthcare plan will cost American billions upon billions in new taxes.

Having said all this, I know there are problems with our healthcare system...it would take an idiot to not recognize that, but to totally replace it with some pie in the sky promises from people I don't trust would be lunacy.

I still believe in my heart that America is the greatest country in the world. I thank God everyday I was born an American. People give their lives to come and live in my home country. Many brave people have died to protect America and this is a debt I cannot possibly ever repay. Next to the Holy Bible, America's Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights, are in my opinion the greatest documents ever written. It's when self-serving politicians seek to undermine these great documents with socialist ideas that compromise the tenets of freedom held within these great works when people like me get really p-oed!

As a Canadian I don't expect you to understand these deeply held beliefs. I dont expect anyone from another country to understand these beliefs. I recognize citizens from other countries may even think I'm crazy (and have told me so) for these beliefs in limited government and individual rights. Hey, that's okay, because I am one of those arrogant Americans who really do believe in my heart of hearts that we live in the greatest country in the world regardless of our shortcomings and will say so often. As a free thinking citizen of the greatest country in the world I reserve the right to voice my opinion when I say the current healthcare proposals set before our legislative bodies are wrong and will cause more harm than good. DO I know what the answer is? No, but I do know that any attempts to undermine our rights as citizens of this country will be met with resistence with people just like me, who have let their politician know in no uncertain terms we will not tolerate their interference with our freedoms.

quote:

Originally posted by workinghard:
[QUOTE]I was in the ER a couple of days ago with my son who broke his nose and saw many people there being treated who were unable to pay and they were not turned away. A sign at the entrance of the ER states that regardless of the ability to pay the medical staff will treat you. The fact is when someone needs medical care in this country they get it whether they can pay for it or not

This may be true, but what about the followup.

Workinghard,

Going to a hospital is often more dangerous than not going...

In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

I would be curious to know how many people who don't have healthcare....have cable, internet, smoke a pack a day, have a cell phone, and drink a six pack on the weekends? Do they choose to not have healthcare in favor of these things? Should the rich pay for that as well? I have to take a drug test in order to work for my company. Do you have to take one to have healthcare my taxes pay for? Just asking? Many problems. Tort reform? Try to get politicians (mostly attorneys) to vote for that. It might help.

Many problems. Like most things the politicians will mess it up. Anybody that believes that the Govt. will pay for it by not adding 1 dollar to the the deficit and by cutting waste and spending is joking themselves. (They will TAX) The Govt has never run anything profitably. Heck, they took over a brothel in Nevada (Bunny Ranch) and went broke at that. Nobody goes broke in prostitution other than the Govt. Everything they run is a failure. Fannie, Freddie, Post Office, medicare, medicaid. Puhleeze.

Cutting waste and spending!! Well, novel concept. Why don't we do that first. Then we can pay for healthcare. You would have my vote. I don't trust the pols to do anything. They are all morons.

Cut waste, cut spending, tort reform, open competition, and legislate the monster healthcare companies to not drop people after a lifetime of paying, and not allowing the companies to not cover pre-existing conditions is common sense to me. Washington is not capable of common sense or self-control. It is disgusting.

JMO

Aside from fighting a war, I can't think of many things the gov't can do better than free enterprise. Healthcare certainly isn't one...we have VA hospitals and Medicare today as proof. There would be more progress on healthcare reform if there wasn't a push for the gov't run option.

I couldnt agree more Bighit15.

quote:

I would be curious to know how many people who don't have healthcare....have cable, internet, smoke a pack a day, have a cell phone, and drink a six pack on the weekends? Do they choose to not have healthcare in favor of these things? Should the rich pay for that as well?

You are kidding right ?

quote:

I would be curious to know how many people who don't have healthcare....have cable, internet, smoke a pack a day, have a cell phone, and drink a six pack on the weekends? Do they choose to not have healthcare in favor of these things? Should the rich pay for that as well?

....and I would be curious to know what percentage of people cannot pay because these insurance companies are a ripoff and are about nothing but profit.

Everyone knows how inept governments are and even corrupt. But that is no excuse for not providing a universal health care.
Look at how low the US health care is ranked compared to other nations. I believe it was 32nd in the most recent poll. We were about 6th so we weren't top by any means. The important thing is no one here has to pay for care if they can't. You might be surprised that the rich donate fortunes to the universal health care.

At least with a government run program* I would have some say so as to who runs it. Every two years I get to vote. With insurance companies, some nameless exec gets a bonus when profits rise...

*and that is not even near what is being proposed.

Coach Waltrip, beautifully written and factually correct.

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quote:

Originally posted by itsrosy:
Tx-Husker, When your great state secedes from this Union, I hope you'll allow a couple of Yankees (with papers, of course) to take up roots! Love that Texas barbeque!

I'm headed that way too rosy!

Hop on the back. We'll be there in no time...



...Tx has a room for us in the basement of the Alamo!



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Hang on!






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Rosey/Woody, come on down but stop in Dallas. If you get to the Alamo you've gone too far! The land of no state income tax.

quote:

Originally posted by workinghard:

quote:

I would be curious to know how many people who don't have healthcare....have cable, internet, smoke a pack a day, have a cell phone, and drink a six pack on the weekends? Do they choose to not have healthcare in favor of these things? Should the rich pay for that as well?

....and I would be curious to know what percentage of people cannot pay because these insurance companies are a ripoff and are about nothing but profit.

Exactly the point Workinghard...

Let's address the problem and not try to revamp the complete healthcare system with the government at the helm.

Follow the money...it's a matter of interest...the government, insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, doctors and anybody else who has a hand in it...

Cutting through the rhetoric and trying to understand who is going to benefit is what we need to recognize. It is not the American people who will benefit when all these interests have their hands outs looking for the big payout. The promise of adding 46 million new clients to the pig trough of government waste sure looks good to these folks...

We have to stand firm demand our politicians not burden the American people with additional expenses at a time when many of us make less and have lost our jobs. The government machine has felt the pinch too and now it's time to find a cause celebre to excite the people into believing their trying to help the poor and needy with this proposal. 'How can anyone refuse the poor children who are dying in the streets because they are not getting the healthcare they need. It is a right to be healthy!' Blah, blah, blah blah, blah....

There is nothing wrong about caring about people, but it is wrong when our government trys to manipulate people into believing it will help to control who gets what care, when they get it and where they get it. As a citizen of this country I will not stand for such Orwellian tactics without calling it for what it is...

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We'll be there Tx. We started out in the van, but it has fleas!



A Missouri Highway patrolman deemed the van too unsafe when the flea collar came loose and whipped down a Lambert's "Home of the Throwed Roll" and a Boomland billboard!




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