Thoughts on Law Suits

IMO this is just one example of a disturbing trend in our (American) society and it is all based on the lack of personal responsibility. You see it in frivolous law suits, such as the one you are referring to, I have it in wrongful termination suits when we have to let people go because business conditions, to what some say is happening on the national level were people want something for free, and we are bankrupting our country as a result of it.

When you play baseball you may be hurt so have your own insurance, when a business can't afford to pay you, you may lose your job, and the list goes on.

Best of luck to you PG, I know my company has spent thousands on attorneys for frivolous suits.

Don't you have the participants sign a disclaimer for this reason alone?

Just another example of lack of common sense.

We are being blamed for allowing a pitcher in the tournament who threw with high velocity.
I guess with pitch limits and inning restrictions they will ban kids who throw over a certain mph.

what the heck it is the national obsession to blame others. I read of a coach being sued by the parents of a little league player who was hit in the head by a fly ball. Reason "He was not properly
instructed"

PG,

Having been in the insurance business for a very long time, a great deal of it having to do with businesses, I can tell you this kind of thing is VERY common. In my experience, I've never heard of a personal injury liability case where a law suit didn't name everyone possibly connected to the incident. And in some states it's easier to sue than other states where if one can sue then the person being sued must defend themselves and that's where the insurance companies be stepping in . . . to defend the insured. In many cases, it's cheaper for the insurance company to come to some settlement that to go through an lengthy litigation process. And therein lies the problem in that so many people know this and will sue knowing they've got a good chance of getting something (nothing tried, nothing gained thinking) from an insurance company.

To me, it sounds like there's a problem with the particular insurance coverage the team had and yours too as is seems they'll only pay if there is some kind of "liability" than can be proved. There used to be policies that would just pay for such an occurrence. But it all depends on how the policy is worded. The insurance agent should be able to tell you why such an incident is covered or why it isn't. (You might ask the agent if there's coverage you could have had that could have taken care of this, with little or not questions asked)

Not all insurance policies are alike and insurance companies have different personalities. . . that is, the personality of one insurance company may be to make every effort to pay a claim and be a little liberal with holding to the letter of the policy. Other companies will be so tight with their claims settlements it's like getting blood from a turnip.

While you may not agree with this, it's pretty typical that because someone is participating in an event, the entity running the event will be held liable for any injuries that may occur during the event. Having the right insurance coverage's is so important as the rules/laws concerning liability are very complex.

So, I'm sorry to hear of your problems with such a lawsuit. I feel it's a shame that the insurance companies, either the team's company or yours, didn't step up and take care of things rather than letting it get to a point where the claimants felt they had to go to a law suit to get things taken care of. It doesn't seem to me it should have come to a point of having to prove some kind of "liability."

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Don't you have the participants sign a disclaimer for this reason alone?

FYI:
Disclaimers are really nothing more than a superficial deterrent to make people think they don't have other avenues. Such disclaimers do not absolve anyone from any liability.

I've never had to deal directly with something like this. But our litigious society is the reason why some people no longer shovel their sidewalks. If someone falls after you shovel, it's your fault. If they fall when you haven't shoveled, it's okay because you didn't alter the conditions.

It seems like commonsense and personal accountability went out the window somewhere over the last 30 years. Probably happened with the rise of helicoptor parents and awards for showing up. Really sad.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
IMO this is just one example of a disturbing trend in our (American) society . . .

LOL . . .it's a "trend" that's been going on for a long as I've been in the insurance business (almost 40 years now). The way I see it, the "trend" is that it gets worse every year.

I am one of those dreaded lawyers that brings lawsuits; however, I would never even consider bringing such a frivilous action. There is a clear defense to this matter, called "assumption of risk." Everyone knows that if they play baseball it is possible they could get hit with the ball, and they assumed the risk of potential injury by playing. In my opinion it is this type of lawsuit that creates all the hysteria around litigation, and there should be more penalties for bringing them. (Instead we keep making laws that lessen the amount that persons can receive if they have a legitimate lawsuit).

I am sorry this happened to you, and I hope the action gets dismissed soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Truman:
So, I'm sorry to hear of your problems with such a lawsuit. I feel it's a shame that the insurance companies, either the team's company or yours, didn't step up and take care of things rather than letting it get to a point where the claimants felt they had to go to a law suit to get things taken care of. It doesn't seem to me it should have come to a point of having to prove some kind of "liability."

You are right as it is common to sue every party involved and I agree with the above statement.
I am not sure that I understand that no one's insurance would not cover. As a consumer, I would want to know what my insurance did cover just to not have to engage in a lawsuit of this type.

Thanks for the info on disclaimer. Not sure if anyone ever noticed on the back of most event tickets there is some type of disclaimer, and you are right, it doesn't absolve liability.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleebaba:
I am one of those dreaded lawyers that brings lawsuits;

We'll try not to hold that against you in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleebaba:
I am one of those dreaded lawyers that brings lawsuits; however, I would never even consider bringing such a frivilous action. There is a clear defense to this matter, called "assumption of risk." Everyone knows that if they play baseball it is possible they could get hit with the ball, and they assumed the risk of potential injury by playing. In my opinion it is this type of lawsuit that creates all the hysteria around litigation, and there should be more penalties for bringing them. (Instead we keep making laws that lessen the amount that persons can receive if they have a legitimate lawsuit).

I am sorry this happened to you, and I hope the action gets dismissed soon.

My husband got hurt very badly many years ago at a stadium, hit in the eye with a ball, sustained very bad injuries.

Although no negligence found, they covered whatever expenses our insurance didn't. My husband was out of work for 3 months. It was a hardship, and we understood that they were not liable.

At the time of injury, we were told most likely if it were son who was 10 at the time, they would have paid for everything plus more.

When someone sustains a devastating or bad injury, and you need to pay the bills, one doesn't really stop to think at the time if it is frivolous or not.

When my son was 14 playing in a tournament with his travel ball team, he squared around to bunt and fouled a 85mph fast ball that run in on him where he fouled it into his face causing a small fracture of his eye socket on the cheek. It's scarred the **** out of me at the time. We went to the emergency and then to an Ophthalmologists to get everything check out. To my anxiety, my son insisted on going back an playing the next day with black eye and all (they were going into championship games and he was a key contributor). Anyway . . . through the tournament director the USSSA's insurance took care of all the medical expenses and so I was happy about that and wasn't interested in anything but having that expense taken care of. So, I know what's it like as a parent to go through something like that.

Maybe I'm being a jerk here but I can't seem to fathom why a tournament host would or should have ANY liability with a kid being hit by a pitch. I understand in today's society it happens but that doesn't make it okay. This is very reason that insurance premiums have sky-rocketed. I do have personal experience here. At age 10, my son was playing in a tournament. This was travel ball and up to this point he had always been required to use a face mask per DYB rules. Most of the team had helmets without face masks. Son begs me to let him take his off. I did reluctantly. He was lead off batter. The first pitch of the game was high and tight. Hit him in cheek area just below his eye. I was the first base coach. It scared the heck out of him and me. Thank God nothing was broken. I didn't have to convince him to put that face mask back on for a little while longer. But, it NEVER crossed my mind to sue anyone. How ludicrous!!! How could that have been anyone's fault. It was an accident. Even if serious damage had occurred, how would that have changed the situation. Again an accident. PG I'm personally sorry that you are even having to deal with this. You shouldn't need insurance to step in and prevent the situation from going farther. There should never have been a situation. Totally different if base wasn't staked down and kid blows out knee rounding first. That is negligent on your part. But an accident. Give me a break!!! Lord only knows where this country is headed.

I just deleted a post after writing for 20 minutes.

Why did the team insurance deny coverage? I just checked the exclusions for USSSA (which may/may not be the carrier for this team), and it looks like an incident like this falls in the "covered" category.

I will say, team insurance is secondary coverage and before they pay, you have to have to prove that the incident was denied by the primary carrier. This paperwork trail can take quite a while and you have follow up. Team insurance was well worth it for us when keewartson lost a tooth and our dental coverage refused benefits.

PG, do you require teams to have insurance before competing?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aleebaba:
When someone sustains a devastating or bad injury, and you need to pay the bills, one doesn't really stop to think at the time if it is frivolous or not.

But, in my opinion, an ethical lawyer should advise that there is no proper legal remedy and refuse to bring suit. Lots of bad things happen to good people, but that does not mean that the law provides a legal remedy.

Actually our insurance company has paid out a lot of money to players injured in our showcase events and tournaments. However in this case it ws labeled an inherent risk of playing the game. All teams that play in our tournaments are required to have insurance coverage. Over the years, we have seen many injuries. This was the first case they have had from a hit by pitch.

Guess I don't know, but I wonder if the pitcher and opposing team were also sued.

I would highly recommend that parents make sure your kids are covered (medical insurance) before playing anywhere.

BTW, this is not a law suit just seeking medical expenses. It includes pain and suffering and some other things.

Really, if every player who ever got hit by a pitch or injured some how in our events were to sue, we would be uninsurable and out of business. I'm certain we have as good of coverage as any organization in baseball. But there is a big difference between the individual showcase players and the tournaments that teams play in. Team insurance should pay medical expenses for any injury sustained playing for that team. We certainly don't have individual policies for the 60,000 + players in our tournaments each year. I do think ours is a secondary coverage though.

I know about as much about insurance as I know about business, that is why we have a business manager.

We have seen much worse injuries. Including some that left players paralyzed. Neither us or our insurance company was sued. I really don't know what they pay and what they don't pay. We just send in the report on every injury. From there they handle it. I do know they have paid several claims in the past.

One son's team was doing a car wash as a fundraiser (a totally rediculous idea!) and I was helping. As an intelligent adult, I crossed a street (in a crosswalk with the light in my favour) and was hit (as a pedestrian) by a Ford Expedition traveling 45 mph. I now have a titanium arm, two permenantly broken feet and numerous other long term injuries. We did not sue anyone. Not the team, coaches, parking lot owner, not even the driver (who was texting at the time he ran the light.) We did have his auto insurance pay the medical bills.

Yes, there are days that I think "hmmm, being rich would be great" but not once did I think suing anyone was the right thing to do.

Makes me sad when people feel entitled instead of responsible (

Keewart,

Yes, all teams are required to turn in proof of insurance coverage. I believe this is standard for most every tournament. We in turn have to produce proof of coverage to all the facilities we use. We use lots of facilities, from high school fields to Major League Stadiums.

For the record, I didn't post this so that people would feel sorry for us. I was just interested in what everyone thought. I appreciate the responses.

I've never sued anyone in my life. Hope I never do!

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

Curious what others think regarding law suits. It seems like people sue over most anything. Of course, we have insurance to cover most everything. Even if they win the law suit we have insurance to cover it. But the attorney thinks it will be thrown out before it ever gets that far.

Anyone else ever have to deal with something like this?

First of all, I think the suit is absurd and will hopefully be thrown out before it can get started.

They are just using the shotgun effect hoping to hit something with deep pockets. Unfortunately attorneys will cut each others throats to put a new boat in their backyard, so they have no ethical problem suing if there is a chance it might pay off. It is like gambling to them, which is part of the reason we need tort reform.
Additionally they need to improve ethics requirements in law school that will hopefully instill a greater sense of decency in them. Lets face it, when someone walks in their office asking for them to sue over something stupid, they can be shown the door.

Of course the biggest problem is with people being raised with a litigious mindset. Even if an attorney works on a contingency basis, they are the ones authorizing them to sue any and everyone hoping to get money. Yet, just like doctors, attorneys need your permission to act, so the ultimate responsibility is with the people who want to sue.

Let me give an example in my family where we had a real reason for a lawsuit. When my son was in middle school he went to a fairground and got on a rock climbing wall. He had done them before, and from a parents point of view, it seems like a safe way for kids to have the sense of climbing, but without the danger. Well my eyes were opened when my son climbed to the top which was 30 feet in the air, rang the bell, and let go of the wall. The mechanism that controls the descent malfunctioned, and he fell straight to the ground. Thank God he landed on his feet, otherwise he could have been paralyzed or killed.
He suffered a severe fracture of his ankle/tibia with a crushing injury they thought might prevent his leg from growing properly. Now we had great health insurance, and our sole focus was on his health and recovery.
While the company that owned the wall was certainly libel for his injury, we were not inclined to sue because we are not like that, and try to practice what we preach. However as time went by, more information started to filter in about how the company never made any attempt to reach us to apologize. Furthermore they had actually tried to continue to have kids get on the wall even though they had not figured out what went wrong to cause my son to fall. When the school it was held at told me they sent a employee up to test it, and when it worked for him, they wanted to let other kids on without knowing what went wrong a few minutes before, I could not believe it. The principal of the school was the one who shut down the wall despite the owners insistence it was safe. After hearing that, my blood started to boil. I did not want to sue the guy, I actually tried to find out how I could meet with him for a personal chat. Anyway, it looked as if my son might be facing huge medical issues in the future that our health insurance might not cover. So I retained an attorney and instructed them to look into our options. Sure enough the attorney wanted to sue everyone, not just the owner of the wall. He said the list was endless, such as the manufacturer of the wall, the company that transported the wall to the site, the host of the event, etc.
I told him in no uncertain terms we were not going to sue the school, or anyone other than the wall owner, and possibly the manufacturer. I also stipulated that we would only sue if manufacturer of the wall if they had a design flaw. The attorney looked at me like I was nuts to take all these people off the list unless it was shown they were at fault. However I was not going to be part of a problem I despise in our current societal mindset.

As it turns out, it was in fact operator error, as the owner of the wall did not properly train his employees how to erect and maintain the hydraulic system(which acted as the belayer) for the wall. So had my attorney thrown mud everywhere hoping for money/settlements, I am sure we would have received more money. Instead we focused on the legitimate person who was at fault, and only sued them.
The point of the story is that people have a choice not to unleash an attorney on everyone, which only drives up costs for us all.

First, the standard is to remember that you can be sued for anything. Have I learned that the hard way.

Next, document, document, document! It sounds like you have. Save everything including any video, the gun measurements/witness to them, any information that you pocess on the young pitcher including any information that would demonstrate that he is an experienced pitcher who has had success/experience on the bump, ...

Per my lawyer's advice, don't talk without your lawyer being there. Things you say will be turned around against you. Innocent people often think that they are innocent and so they don't have anything to hide. Well, the other guy has something to gain - money. So, it is good to spend the money on a lawyer to make sure that you are represented.

I would think that some neglect would have to be demonstrated here. I don't see any neglect. There are inherit dangers with the game. Getting hit by pitch is one of them that all players know before stepping into the box. All players understand that there is an expecation of nerves in this process and so, a pitcher, just like a hitter, will experience them and might be wild. You play the game. Good luck!

Jeesh, reading all of this explains why I have more cards in my wallet that say "General Manager, Strasburg Express" than "Attorney at Law".

Just not feeling the love.

But I've got to tell you that I know many many good and decent people that are also lawyers. I also realize that lawyer jokes have been around for a long time-"Woe unto ye lawyers. Ye load men with intolerable burdens and lift not one finger yourselves."(Luke 11:46)

Probably more to the story,usually is. I don't care for insurance companies. We pay good money for services and too many times when we need to use the services it seems like a fight. If they have to pay out they simply raise your rates. Why do people file lawsuits. Sometimes greed sometimes because that is the only way to get the insurance to do what they should have done in the first place. PG. I respectfully suggest you familiarize yourself with your insurance coverage the best that you can. You own a company that provides a service that will result in injuries, you don't own a knitting supply store. Best of luck. I hope the child is ok and didn't suffer any long term damage. You suggest you don't know a lot about business, just a baseball guy. You too modest, you own the most successful and well known talent evaluating service in the business by far. That does not happen by accident.

quote:

You own a company that provides a service that will result in injuries, you don't own a knitting supply store.

I've never been sued (knocking on wood) or sued anyone else. I believe there are actions that you should be able to seek action, but come on...

A high fastball resulting in a broken jaw causes a law suit? Why didn't he have a face mask? Why not sue the helmet company for not making it standard? This is probably how they became standard softball, somebody hit their darling daughter in the face. The guy who made the ball made it hard. Why not fly to Guatemala and serve him? Probably because he only makes 18 cents a month and stupid law suits are illegal there...

Nobody likes to see anyone gets hurt. I cringe everytime a line drive goes up the middle with my son pitching, but I can't see myself suing a hitter because he misses a spot and takes a line drive off the noggin (or suing the field owner, weather man, grounds crew, guy who built the light standards, etc).

Seatllestars. I hope you don't own a knitting store. Those knitting needles certainly are sharp and could put an eye out. You sell them without a warning label written in English, Spanish, Arabic and ancient Greek or dulling them up and including dual eye patches and you're wide open to potential liability claims.

Lawyers will be the death of this country.

I'm sure everyone else got my point simply enough moff. Injuries are a high probability in that business, cover yourself the best that you can.

People that sued PG staff were wrong. That does not mean that people that are intentionally or negligently harmed by another person or corporation should not be allowed to sue to obtain compensation for the damage caused.

Some individual health insurance policies (as opposed to group) have the question ... Do you engage in any risky activities? When the family sat with the insurance agent they may not have thought of baseball as a risky activity. The insurance company may think otherwise. These risks usually involve, sky diving, auto racing, etc.. Now there are bills to be paid. They're suing anyone with pockets to see what sticks.

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:
Jeesh, reading all of this explains why I have more cards in my wallet that say "General Manager, Strasburg Express" than "Attorney at Law".

Just not feeling the love.

But I've got to tell you that I know many many good and decent people that are also lawyers. I also realize that lawyer jokes have been around for a long time-"Woe unto ye lawyers. Ye load men with intolerable burdens and lift not one finger yourselves."(Luke 11:46)

If I'm falsely accused of a crime I'm not calling a plumber for my defense. I'm calling the best attorney I can find. Like any profession there are good and bad.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Lawyers will be the death of this country.

So if you're arrested or sued would you like a plumber or carpenter?

PG -- This is right up there with the thief who is injured during a break in suing the homeowner.

People wonder why things cost so much, and why businesses are reluctant to hire, and why contracts get to be more onerous and less human ... it is this kind of abuse of the system. In the end, even if there is no settlement, time & money is being spent to prosecute & defend the case. Insurance companies have to collect higher premiums to allow for the additional risk and cost of doing business. Businesses have to pass on these costs or cut costs (the #1 cost in most businesses is payroll).

Like snowballs and other things, it all rolls down hill. Time to put an add in the paper: Lost: A sense of personal responsibility, common sense, and understanding of fundamental principles of economics. If found, please return to the USA immediately.

Some rules that have been issued to our HS coaching staff in recent years-

We can’t spray weeds with weed killer for fear of liability
We can’t cut the grass or drag the field without a proper certificate from our head of maintanance out of fear of liability.
We can’t use our own tools to prep or maintain the field for fear...
We can’t paint the dugout for fear...
Our players can’t practice in our cages on the weekends on their own for fear..
Our players can’t access the field to throw the ball around for fear..
We can’t ask our winter sports athletes to join us once in a while to start getting their arms in shape...
Our players can't throw front toss BP from behind a net to each other...
We can’t allow a well-meaning parent or program supporter to donate a much-needed piece of equipment for fear...
We can’t pick up a kid in need of a ride to practice for fear...
We can’t have a guest instructor throw BP...
We can’t sell burgers and dogs at the ballpark for fear...
We can’t build a storage shed...
We can’t have young players aspiring to play on the team some day join us on the field...
We can’t conduct a clinic for our local youth league at our field for fear..
We can’t play an alumni game...
We can’t practice in the gym when it is raining...


No, our sue-happy world doesn’t bug me much.

.

Wow...it's true! You didn't build that!

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Jerry,

Sorry to hear that you are having to deal with a lawsuit... not fun!

I have never sued, or threatened to sue, anyone. I had never in my life been threatened with a lawsuit... until I took over this website in 2005. Since then, I've averaged about once per year of receiving either a threat of a lawsuit from an angry or banned poster, or a letter from a law firm along the same lines. So far none of those have materialized into law suits, but I'll admit I've lost some sleep a few nights!


Julie

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Jerry,

Sorry to hear that you are having to deal with a lawsuit... not fun!

I have never sued, or threatened to sue, anyone. I had never in my life been threatened with a lawsuit... until I took over this website in 2005. Since then, I've averaged about once per year of receiving either a threat of a lawsuit from an angry or banned poster, or a letter from a law firm along the same lines. So far none of those have materialized into law suits, but I'll admit I've lost some sleep a few nights!


Julie

I'd watch out for Woody and his hsbasbeallweb addiction. He's over 18000 posts. He might get you for carpel tunnel.

quote:

I'd watch out for Woody and his hsbasbeallweb addiction. He's over 18000 posts. He might get you for carpel tunnel.

Or withdrawal when the system switches over next week...

Being an athletic trainer and in a position to have to deal with serious injuries (such as what started this thread), I am covered by several million dollars worth of liability insurance. I carry personal professional liability insurance, my employer carries liability insurance on my behalf (and theirs!), and I'm sure the school also carries some form of liability insurance that would be brought into play if needed.

I don't know particulars of school or employer insurance, but my personal insurance requires a phone call and they hire me a personal lawyer. That's the way it's supposed to work; I hope to never find out...

Once again, I'm not worried about this. Attorney's will handle it. If anything, we could be described as being over insured. All our experiences with the insurance company have been very good. They are generally considered the #1 company in sports and entertainment.

Negligence is always our biggest concern. That causes some tough decisions at times. Mostly regarding weather and darkness decisions.

In this case a hitter was hit by a pitch during a tournament. We always are very concerned about injuries and try to follow up. Full reports are filed by the trainer and submitted to the insurance company. The injured person is given contact info for us and the insurance carrier. I know our insurance has paid out a lot of money in the past. In this case I guess they refused.

I'm confident that our insurance company will handle this no matter how it turns out. We also have our company attorney working with the insurance company's attorneys.

I believe the biggest problem isn't about medical bills. It's about pain and suffering, loss of wages (for parents), loss of baseball opportunities for the player, etc. this all based on negligence on someone's part. In this case, there was absolutely no negligence.

We hate seeing players get hurt. Unfortunately, it happens too often. I think parents should make sure they know how their kids are covered in case of injury before attending any event that involves a chance of injury. I think lots of people tend to over look that.

Regarding lawsuits... We have learned that people will sue over most anything. Someone mentioned, that sometimes law suits are settled simply because it's far less expensive to settle on a payment than it is to fight. Been there... Done that!

You can be 100% positive you are right and will win in any court. To fight... Your cost is estimated to be $50,000 plus your time. To settle... $20,000 and it's over. I actually wanted to fight, but even our attorney said that would be stupid, so we settled.

What would you do?

I don't think you have too much to worry about. It could very easily be argued that the batter was negligence for not wearing a batting helmet with a cage on it. A ball hitting you in the face is a foreseeable event and the batter did not take measures to mitigate that event thus the batter, his manager and his teammates are the ones who are negligence in this situation.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I do come from a family of lawyers. As my BIL always says, anyone can sue anyone for anything, but that does not mean that it is a legitimate lawsuit.

quote:

What would you do?

I've been in that situation in regards to an auto accident. The car in front of me caused an accident which I could not avoid and I ended up hitting the car which was responsible for the accident. Since I was the last car in the pile up the car in front of me sued me even though they are officially responsible for the accident. Original lawsuit was $100,000 plus physical therapy expenses for life. I wanted to fight based on contributed negligence. Insurance company settled for a whopping $13,999.99 which at their time was the limit for settling vs. going to court. I was pi$$ed even though they did not raise my rates. It was the principle of the thing. Turns out the attorney was a known ambulance chaser and always settled for that amount. According to my insurance agent this happens on a daily basis. People bringing lawsuits against insurance companies they know they can not win but settling for the an amount just below their lawsuit threshold.