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PART 2
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Part 3 is now up.
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Fred,
I've heard the term "extension" used many times but I'm never quite sure what people mean by it. Does it mean "reaching" with the throwing arm? Does it mean "reaching" with the whole upper half (more forward trunk flexion and reaching with the arm)? Does it mean something else?
Can you give us your definition of "extension"?
I've heard the term "extension" used many times but I'm never quite sure what people mean by it. Does it mean "reaching" with the throwing arm? Does it mean "reaching" with the whole upper half (more forward trunk flexion and reaching with the arm)? Does it mean something else?
Can you give us your definition of "extension"?
Extension is an effect of doing other things correctly. By teaching extension its highly possible to get a cart in front of the horse effect and foul up the kinematic sequence which can equate to a loss of velocity among other problems.
EDIT: Many hitters run into similar problems by focusing on extension. If you do everything right up until its time to "extend" it will naturally happen.
EDIT: Many hitters run into similar problems by focusing on extension. If you do everything right up until its time to "extend" it will naturally happen.
Roger,
For those that know me and how I don't care for the towel drill or any form of extension whether it be with the torso or the arm in this case it is about both. You interfere with the throwing arc as well as greatly minimize the lower half's involvement in assisting the arm. By minimizing the lower half you create an imbalance. Imbalances lead to problems. I don't know what other extension options there are besides the above. Can I get extension with my lower half by increasing my stride? Yes. If it prohibits my body from attaining balance, meaning, if it makes me more upperbody oriented after foot strike then over striding would be another form of a bad extension cue. In the video I want it to be known that those that use extension by reaching and/or trying to get the ball closer to the target is useless and detrimental. Getting the ball down is all the extension the athlete needs. Not getting the ball down was not a result of getting enough extension. If the individual was an Iron Mike pitching machine the above would be false.
We can make a robot near human-like, but we should never make a human, robot-like. Too many body types, too many different types of masses, too many different types of wants. We as humans are so much more capable of doing great things. Listen to the great ones. Learn from them. David Goggins is one of them. YouTube him. Navy Seal. Stud. We can't continue to roll with the flavor of the month in pitching. There is one constant...."no limits".
For those that know me and how I don't care for the towel drill or any form of extension whether it be with the torso or the arm in this case it is about both. You interfere with the throwing arc as well as greatly minimize the lower half's involvement in assisting the arm. By minimizing the lower half you create an imbalance. Imbalances lead to problems. I don't know what other extension options there are besides the above. Can I get extension with my lower half by increasing my stride? Yes. If it prohibits my body from attaining balance, meaning, if it makes me more upperbody oriented after foot strike then over striding would be another form of a bad extension cue. In the video I want it to be known that those that use extension by reaching and/or trying to get the ball closer to the target is useless and detrimental. Getting the ball down is all the extension the athlete needs. Not getting the ball down was not a result of getting enough extension. If the individual was an Iron Mike pitching machine the above would be false.
We can make a robot near human-like, but we should never make a human, robot-like. Too many body types, too many different types of masses, too many different types of wants. We as humans are so much more capable of doing great things. Listen to the great ones. Learn from them. David Goggins is one of them. YouTube him. Navy Seal. Stud. We can't continue to roll with the flavor of the month in pitching. There is one constant...."no limits".
Fred,
Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that trying to teach extension is a wasted effort. At the end of the delivery, the arm is going to do what the rest of the body has set it up to do. There is no manipulation of the arm to achieve extension. And trying to do so very well could increase one's chances for injury.
But I feel it is important to distinguish between "extension" and "getting the release point out front". It is possible to get the release point out front without trying to "extend". If you do things well with proper timing, a release point that is out front will happen. Specifically, if you maintain a stable posture, create momentum, manage the glove side and stay closed/rotate late, then your release point will happen out in front of the front foot - no "extension" required.
Regarding the towel drill, the biggest misconception about its purpose is that it is for practicing extension. What the drill should be used for is practicing total body mechanics. Hitting the target with the towel is not the goal - it's feedback. The goal is to have good mechanics/timing. If you do that, you get positive feedback. That feedback is telling you that you've done things well and you've used your body effectively in doing so - you've done things in a way that lets the release point happen out front. Now, I will admit that it is possible for pitchers to hit the target by cheating (e.g. "extending") so it does need to be supervised (as least at first) by a knowledgeable coach to make sure the pitcher is using proper mechanics. Failure to do so could result in a pitcher trying to "extend" or employ some other inappropriate mechanic possibly fueling further the above misconception.
Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that trying to teach extension is a wasted effort. At the end of the delivery, the arm is going to do what the rest of the body has set it up to do. There is no manipulation of the arm to achieve extension. And trying to do so very well could increase one's chances for injury.
But I feel it is important to distinguish between "extension" and "getting the release point out front". It is possible to get the release point out front without trying to "extend". If you do things well with proper timing, a release point that is out front will happen. Specifically, if you maintain a stable posture, create momentum, manage the glove side and stay closed/rotate late, then your release point will happen out in front of the front foot - no "extension" required.
Regarding the towel drill, the biggest misconception about its purpose is that it is for practicing extension. What the drill should be used for is practicing total body mechanics. Hitting the target with the towel is not the goal - it's feedback. The goal is to have good mechanics/timing. If you do that, you get positive feedback. That feedback is telling you that you've done things well and you've used your body effectively in doing so - you've done things in a way that lets the release point happen out front. Now, I will admit that it is possible for pitchers to hit the target by cheating (e.g. "extending") so it does need to be supervised (as least at first) by a knowledgeable coach to make sure the pitcher is using proper mechanics. Failure to do so could result in a pitcher trying to "extend" or employ some other inappropriate mechanic possibly fueling further the above misconception.
Tim Lincecum does everything you say and releases the ball pretty much even with his front foot. Release point is very much a function of arm slot and forward lean. A pitcher who throws overhand like Lincecum and also leans forward as much as he does would throw the ball into the ground if he released out front. Simple geometry. How far one releases the ball out front is irrelevant relative to other factors.
Because of his forward lean, which contributes to velocity, he possibly releases the ball with less "extension" than any other MLB pitcher.
Because of his forward lean, which contributes to velocity, he possibly releases the ball with less "extension" than any other MLB pitcher.
Fred,
Just a nit, but I think that bulk, especially for hitters, is the primary advantage that steroids provide. The strength certainly helps to continue to move the added bulk at the same speed. Most elite athletes are moving at or near their max speed and added strength doesn't get them moving much if any faster. However, if they add bulk and strength then they can move the added bulk without losing any speed and therefore create more momentum.
As far as the overemphasis on location vs velocity my son is living the nightmare. A year and a half ago he threw a bit below a pure 3/4. He was throwing 85-87 in a let it loose situation with good movement and so-so control and working 83-85 as a starter with a bit better control but not pinpoint by any means with the ability to touch 87 or 88. Then a JC pitching coach started messing with him to try and improve the control. Moved him to the right side of the rubber because "the left side was for pitchers who don't have that good of control." More extension, fingers on top of the ball, etc. The next thing you know his fingers are pointing up at release and he's following through almost vertical from a 3/4 arm slot. He has extension out front but has lost significant extension from the anatomical standpoint. i.e. he's pushing/aiming the ball. The control is great when he doesn't care about velocity. The moment he tries to throw hard the control is gone and hard is no longer 85-87 but 82-84 or less.
Now the challenge is getting him back to the old way and getting back the confidence to throw hard with movement and challenge the hitters with that.
Just a nit, but I think that bulk, especially for hitters, is the primary advantage that steroids provide. The strength certainly helps to continue to move the added bulk at the same speed. Most elite athletes are moving at or near their max speed and added strength doesn't get them moving much if any faster. However, if they add bulk and strength then they can move the added bulk without losing any speed and therefore create more momentum.
As far as the overemphasis on location vs velocity my son is living the nightmare. A year and a half ago he threw a bit below a pure 3/4. He was throwing 85-87 in a let it loose situation with good movement and so-so control and working 83-85 as a starter with a bit better control but not pinpoint by any means with the ability to touch 87 or 88. Then a JC pitching coach started messing with him to try and improve the control. Moved him to the right side of the rubber because "the left side was for pitchers who don't have that good of control." More extension, fingers on top of the ball, etc. The next thing you know his fingers are pointing up at release and he's following through almost vertical from a 3/4 arm slot. He has extension out front but has lost significant extension from the anatomical standpoint. i.e. he's pushing/aiming the ball. The control is great when he doesn't care about velocity. The moment he tries to throw hard the control is gone and hard is no longer 85-87 but 82-84 or less.
Now the challenge is getting him back to the old way and getting back the confidence to throw hard with movement and challenge the hitters with that.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
Then a JC pitching coach started messing with him to try and improve the control.
This is my worst nightmare. Maybe I will turn into Lincecum's dad.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
Tim Lincecum does everything you say and releases the ball pretty much even with his front foot. Release point is very much a function of arm slot and forward lean.
Lincecum's head and upper spine tilt at release pulls his release point back. Otherwise, I believe, his release point would be in front of his front foot.
EDIT: I originally said that maintaining a "stable" posture is one of the elements that lets you get your release point out front. I should have said "stable and upright". Lincecum does maintain a stable posture - it's just not upright.
That's right it isn't and that's the bottom line. It would be further out front if Lincecum threw underhand but he doesn't. Now take an underhand pitcher and see where they release the ball. Most likely well in front of the their foot because they have to throw the ball upwards.
How far out front the ball is a function of what an individual pitcher needs to do to throw strikes. As one goes along the way from straight overhand to sidearm to underhand the ball is going to tend to be released further out front.
As long as Lincecum has the forward tilt of his spine, which is an important factor in developing velocity and throws over the top he's going to have to release the ball early to throw strikes.
How far out front the ball is a function of what an individual pitcher needs to do to throw strikes. As one goes along the way from straight overhand to sidearm to underhand the ball is going to tend to be released further out front.
As long as Lincecum has the forward tilt of his spine, which is an important factor in developing velocity and throws over the top he's going to have to release the ball early to throw strikes.
