Thoughts on transferring during this mess

17 innings pitched is a lot considering the shortened season (especially for a freshman). If your son is getting the ball against top 5 teams and throwing often I would assume they consider him pretty valuable. 

What's the scholarship situation? My answer will vary depending whether he is getting baseball money or not. 

Right now if you still have a good relationship with travel coach or whoever helped him get recruited I would have him start putting some feelers out to other D1s. I'm sure some will disagree, but you also have the juco option in your back pocket if word gets out. 

Right now there is a lot of movement. Guys went from entering in the portal to now finding new schools. If there were ever a time to look for a new program this might be the time, especially after coming off a good season. 

He is on 25% scholarship. He is waiting to do the end of the year interview with coach and see if more scholarship money will be thrown at him before he for sure makes up his mind. I was thinking it would be the opposite on moving around right now with unknown on seniors possibly coming back and everyone getting extra year. Yea,  the playing time isn't an issue. 

He got 17 innings as a freshman.  Not many freshman get that many innings in a FULL year let alone a season of less than 20 games.  The odds of getting more money are slim and none with seniors returning.  If he is in a program, where he is getting a chance to play and likes the school, quite honestly he would be a fool to leave.

@Suds posted:

He got 17 innings as a freshman.  Not many freshman get that many innings in a FULL year let alone a season of less than 20 games.  The odds of getting more money are slim and none with seniors returning.  If he is in a program, where he is getting a chance to play and likes the school, quite honestly he would be a fool to leave.

Yes he had 17.2 innings in 5 appearances as relief and 2 starts. He doesn’t necessarily hate the school, but wants more out of a baseball program. It’s hard to explain without sounding like a-holes since he was a freshman and got major playing time at a mid major D1. I’ll give a little example, 3 weeks before the season starts, coach changes arm slot. Son sucked it up, didn’t complain and did for the team. He was super uncomfortable with it and some shaky outings. He adjusted and turned it around given the unorthodox new delivery. My son told me he didn’t understand why this wasn’t done in the Fall instead of right before the first game in the Spring. Of course, I said talk coach after the season is over and ask. Little things like that. Just asking others what they think is all. Trying to get input for me and my son to talk about since this would be a big decision. Thanks for the feedback.

@TXdad2019 posted:

He is on 25% scholarship. He is waiting to do the end of the year interview with coach and see if more scholarship money will be thrown at him before he for sure makes up his mind. I was thinking it would be the opposite on moving around right now with unknown on seniors possibly coming back and everyone getting extra year. Yea,  the playing time isn't an issue. 

It depends, our school just signed 5 transfers and I know for a fact has a 6th coming in. 4 of them are pitchers and pitching was not an issue for us this year. So some teams are definitely looking to add. I would wait until that meeting happened before making a decision. I could stay in a less than ideal situation for 75% off. 

That being said you mention the stagnation and the staff. If the juco route is something you would be willing to consider there really is nothing to lose by opting to enter the portal. Especially considering he just posted quality numbers as a freshman. I'm not sure the big dogs are going to be adding right now, there are definitely other D1 programs looking for guys, especially arms. There will also be some post draft shuffling. I also don't know when scholarship renewal takes place/summer classes start so keep that in mind. 

My two cents....Simple.   I'd look at this like a job at a company.   There have to be 3 things to keep me.  1) Am I being paid adequately for my efforts.   2) Is there an opportunity to develop my skills  3) Am I having fun, do I like the people I work for and with.

College programs aren't perfect.   Most college coaches do the best they can.   With that said, what are your son's expectations?  Does he think the grass is greener somewhere else that he'll get something he isn't getting today?  If so, what is that thing he isn't getting today?   How does he get along with his pitching coach?   Is his PC teaching him new things..is he growing?  Is their pitching philosophy, workout training, and nutrition program going to make your son better and get him to the next level?   There is no wrong answer here.   I totally understand that your son is on the inside now and sees some things that he thought were going to be different.   Go back to the 3 things I mentioned at the start of the post.   Is something missing that he thought would be there?

What is the big picture?   Is your son playing ball as a way to pay for most of his college.  Is he using baseball as a way to get into a school he might not ordinarily have access to?   Does he want to play professional baseball?  Does he have the projected talent to play professional baseball?   

So, I would think very hard and long about these questions and answers before ever thinking of transferring.  These are difficult times.  Your son is getting mound time and is clearly getting it done in the classroom.  Those are two things that most college baseball players struggle with for 4 years.   Your son is in a good spot with regard to those two areas.   Could it be better?  Possibly, but I think it is critical to identify what it is about his current situation that he feels is missing then figure out if that really matters for the long term.   Then, possibly look at options.

As always, JMO.   Good luck! 

Just remember if you go in the portal your coach will know it.  I know of a player that went in the portal not realizing (can't understand this) that his coach would see it.  His coach called and said if you are not happy, then good luck.  End of conversation. 

On a side note, they have not approved the free to move without sitting out a year yet have they?  That will be in July correct?

@PitchingFan posted:

Just remember if you go in the portal your coach will know it.  I know of a player that went in the portal not realizing (can't understand this) that his coach would see it.  His coach called and said if you are not happy, then good luck.  End of conversation. 

On a side note, they have not approved the free to move without sitting out a year yet have they?  That will be in July correct?

Correct, if he decides to enter transfer portal, he will have a conversation with coach and explain reasons. One thing I teach my boys is communicating is key. I’m seeing where January 2021 is when the final vote for the one time transfer (not having to sit out) vote would happen. That hurts the athlete and makes these decisions even harder.

So all of these guys who are in transfer portal could still sit out a year other than the ones who are grad transfers.  I wonder if everybody realizes it or is just willing to gamble? 

@PitchingFan posted:

So all of these guys who are in transfer portal could still sit out a year other than the ones who are grad transfers.  I wonder if everybody realizes it or is just willing to gamble? 

Not exactly. For example NCAA allows kids that are on no scholarship money to transfer without penalty. I believe the 11.7 scholarships is for 27 players. The last 8 can’t be baseball scholarship money. There are a couple of exceptions and this is one.

Also be aware that if he goes JUCO route, he will have to get his associates degree and graduate (which wouldnt be an issue) prior to his next school, but also maintain enough transferable hours to qualify at his next school.  I dont think the NCAA has addressed this yet for the JUCO kids that choose to go back or like in your sons case, already have over 45 hours and in theory would "graduate" in December.  If considering JUCO transfer, might be worth talking with Rick Allen at @informedathlete.com to make sure all bases are covered

TxDad2019.  I realized that but thanks for clarifying.  I just know there are several players on the transfer portal that are on scholarship.  I wonder if they realize that it is an unknown world or if they think the sit out waiver has not passed yet?  I'm afraid there are some who think it passed when they gave everybody a year back when it was discussed.  There could be some surprised players and families if it does not pass.  I know you cannot cut a scholarship player but it could get interesting if these guys have not had a conversation with their coach and try to come back after putting name in the portal.

Kendall Rogers has made numerous posts that the one time transfer rule will either not pass or will not go into effect until the 21-22 school year.  

@PABaseball posted:

It depends, our school just signed 5 transfers and I know for a fact has a 6th coming in. 4 of them are pitchers and pitching was not an issue for us this year. So some teams are definitely looking to add. I would wait until that meeting happened before making a decision. I could stay in a less than ideal situation for 75% off. 

That being said you mention the stagnation and the staff. If the juco route is something you would be willing to consider there really is nothing to lose by opting to enter the portal. Especially considering he just posted quality numbers as a freshman. I'm not sure the big dogs are going to be adding right now, there are definitely other D1 programs looking for guys, especially arms. There will also be some post draft shuffling. I also don't know when scholarship renewal takes place/summer classes start so keep that in mind. 

This is the cruel reality of college baseball.  Everyone is adding.  If the coach can find a better player to replace you, he will.  The big dogs are adding players too.   

@d-mac posted:

This is the cruel reality of college baseball.  Everyone is adding.  If the coach can find a better player to replace you, he will.  The big dogs are adding players too.   

Lol, if you have decent facilities and some nice swag for kids to wear, you’ll have a lot of Texas players. That’s all these kids talk about is what gear they’re getting 😁

Local kid went to a mid major and pitched 16 undistinguished innings in 2019- 20. Got butt kicked, for the most part. This year, went in and kicked butt , touched 95 mph, and has an outside chance to be drafted (big, projectable frame and nice breaking pitches), as he had a lot of scouts at a couple of his starts.

  My point is that Freshman year is tough for all but the most talented, or the lucky. Things change.

@57special posted:

Local kid went to a mid major and pitched 16 undistinguished innings in 2019- 20. Got butt kicked, for the most part. This year, went in and kicked butt , touched 95 mph, and has an outside chance to be drafted (big, projectable frame and nice breaking pitches), as he had a lot of scouts at a couple of his starts.

  My point is that Freshman year is tough for all but the most talented, or the lucky. Things change.

Bingo!  There is an adjustment period and it's usually is as a freshman. 

My son went to one of those top P5 programs. He called  home quite a few times telling us he didn't expect it to be the way it was at an ACC program. He didnt like the changes pitching coach was making.  He didn't realize the guy knew more than he did. 

He wasn't the first to ever feel that way, and won't be the last.

I think that players transferring really don't understand the ramifications. First, freshman haven't played enough to prove they deserve a chance somewhere else. If the player isn't on athletic scholarship and it's a large roster, he might be cut, then what?  You will more than likely have to sit out the first year, that's time lost in playing. If I am the coach, I am going with my proven senior.

The OP did ask what we thought, but doesn't really seem to want opinions.  Just my observations. 

But here is mine, stay where he is and deal with it, it's just not  really in his best interest to try to transfer at this time.

@TPM posted:

Bingo!  There is an adjustment period and it's usually is as a freshman. 

My son went to one of those top P5 programs. He called  home quite a few times telling us he didn't expect it to be the way it was at an ACC program. He didnt like the changes pitching coach was making.  He didn't realize the guy knew more than he did. 

He wasn't the first to ever feel that way, and won't be the last.

I think that players transferring really don't understand the ramifications. First, freshman haven't played enough to prove they deserve a chance somewhere else. If the player isn't on athletic scholarship and it's a large roster, he might be cut, then what?  You will more than likely have to sit out the first year, that's time lost in playing. If I am the coach, I am going with my proven senior.

The OP did ask what we thought, but doesn't really seem to want opinions.  Just my observations. 

But here is mine, stay where he is and deal with it, it's just not  really in his best interest to try to transfer at this time.

Not sure how it came off as I didn’t want opinions? Thanks for responses.

Sorry, that was the impression that you gave, to me at least.

I think you really do know what's best, so sit down and discuss it with him before he talks with coach.

@TXdad2019 posted:

Not exactly. For example NCAA allows kids that are on no scholarship money to transfer without penalty. I believe the 11.7 scholarships is for 27 players. The last 8 can’t be baseball scholarship money. There are a couple of exceptions and this is one.

I think you're referring to bylaw 14.5.5.2.9. There's a twist to it that will hurt a few guys. If the school that you're coming from does not offer athletic aid in your sport, you could not have been a "Recruited Prospective Student-Athlete" at the previous school. Other than Ivy, I have no idea how many D1 schools have zero baseball dollars.

@MidAtlanticDad posted:

I think you're referring to bylaw 14.5.5.2.9. There's a twist to it that will hurt a few guys. If the school that you're coming from does not offer athletic aid in your sport, you could not have been a "Recruited Prospective Student-Athlete" at the previous school. Other than Ivy, I have no idea how many D1 schools have zero baseball dollars.

I'm not disagreeing, but I was under the understanding that if you took an official visit, you fell under the definition of recruited athlete, even in the Ivy.  I may be mistaken, but I believe I was told that once.  Rick at Informed Athlete would know for sure.

@9and7dad posted:

I'm not disagreeing, but I was under the understanding that if you took an official visit, you fell under the definition of recruited athlete, even in the Ivy.  I may be mistaken, but I believe I was told that once.  Rick at Informed Athlete would know for sure.

No disagreement. I'm saying that if you are at an Ivy (for example) and you met the definition of recruited athlete there, you would not qualify for the one-time Nonrecruited Student Exception waiver. (A year in residence would be required.)

@9and7dad posted:

I'm not disagreeing, but I was under the understanding that if you took an official visit, you fell under the definition of recruited athlete, even in the Ivy.  I may be mistaken, but I believe I was told that once.  Rick at Informed Athlete would know for sure.

I've read enough times on here that the definition of "recruited" is not just whether you have athletic money, so I looked it up:

http://www.ncaa.org/student-at...rrent/transfer-terms

Recruited: If a college coach calls you more than once, contacts you off campus, pays your expenses to visit the campus, or in Divisions I and II, issues you a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of financial aid, you are considered to be recruited.  In Division I, a written offer of financial aid to attend summer school before full-time enrollment does not mean you have been recruited.

I think an important question is what are his goals. I think player development is important but in college is mostly an issue for guys with pro ambitions.

So if he likes the people, gets a good education and gets playing time you have to think about if you want to risk losing that for better coaching.

But if he wants to be a pro (does he have the talent?) maybe a school with better coaching is a better choice.

Don't get me wrong I'm a big advocate of player dev, but really what do you gain if you interrupt your already somewhat successful d1 career for juco if you can't get to pro ball?

@Dominik85 posted:

I think an important question is what are his goals. I think player development is important but in college is mostly an issue for guys with pro ambitions.

So if he likes the people, gets a good education and gets playing time you have to think about if you want to risk losing that for better coaching.

But if he wants to be a pro (does he have the talent?) maybe a school with better coaching is a better choice.

Don't get me wrong I'm a big advocate of player dev, but really what do you gain if you interrupt your already somewhat successful d1 career for juco if you can't get to pro ball?

The only reason I suggested looking at Juco was that he wouldn’t have to sit out a year. At this point, pro ball is a stretch for him imo. The program that he’s currently at is in a weak conference, but he does get to play a lot of top 25 schools. In this shortened season, they played 4 ranked teams. At the end of the day, he’s probably going to stay put. Doesn’t hurt to see what others think though.

So, What would a player do in this circumstance if they wanted to transfer? Just tell the head coach? Reach out to JUCO's before or after the conversation with the head coach? What is the norms here?