Through the years...what position was talent scarce?

I don't know if I would use the same terminology, but I did notice that the balance of power shifted over the years.

 

At 12 years old on the little diamond, the early puberty pitchers dominated to the point of it being unfair.

 

At 13 years old on the big diamond, pitchers no longer had the upper hand but the hitters lacked the power to take advantage. The three most valuable assets that seemed in short supply at that age were 1) catchers who could keep the ball in front of them and get it down to 2b enough to discourage the majority of runners who lacked 90-foot speed, 2) shortstops who could charge and cover ground as opposed to just reacting in their immediate vicinity like they did on the small diamond, and 3) third basemen who could make the throw to first base passably well and cover bunts.

 

By 14, the better pitchers started asserting themselves, as did the better hitters, which reduced the number of places you could hide weak players in either the lineup or the field.  Outfield play started to matter more. That's when I seemed to notice more balance and speed mattering in more parts of the game.

 

Please note that my son did not play travel ball until he was older, so other people may have seen these transitions earlier or different transitions altogether.

 

From my viewpoint it has always been pitching at every level.  The demand for excellent pitchers is always going to be there.  Those that excel, move up or on as the case may be whether it is travel baseball, college baseball or professionally

 

I think this question can also be a perspective question related to what is the most important position because expectations would be higher for that position than any other. For me, it is catcher.   Excellent catchers are hard to find, and so important to all facets of the game.  I've always said a team is only as good as its catcher.

 

JMO

Over the years the positions I observed the coaches struggling to fill were pitchers and catchers.  Especially catchers.  Not many want to or even have the skills to catch behind the plate.

 

Seems like at any team tryout, evalutation, etc, the majority line up at SS - not many at catcher. 

Catcher.  Nuff said. :-)

Like mentioned, Pitchers at all ages. Second would have to be catchers. My son was lucky enough to have a coach who pushed the catching position on him for a number of reason: 1 it is a position where a kid can really stand out if they get good at it 2 there are a million SS who take up the majority of all other positions as they move to the next level. From what I have see, catchers were an after thought a few years ago but now the position is gettting more attention as coaches are recognizing they need an athletic kid there.

Im with the others catchers and pitchers.  A good solid catcher is hard to come by at just about any level.  

I agree with Swampboy's comments and with everyone about catcher. I think good catchers are always hard to find, and very often when you get on the big field the distance from the plate to the backstop can be enormous -- 2019Son played on a field a couple of weeks ago with about 50 ft. from the catcher to the backstop, and I've seen a high school field with 60 ft. -- being able to block the ball is critical.

 

And I agree with Swampboy -- and politely disagree with some of the other posters -- about shortstop . . . all the kids line up at shortstop for tryouts because that's where they played in little league or in younger travel ball. But not many of them can play shortstop on the big field -- range (the type of range where you're genuinely surprised the grounder didn't go through the infield), strong arm for the throws from the hole, ability to charge the ball effectively and throw on the run. It is certainly rare at 14U, although perhaps it improves a bit as kids get stronger and faster in the next few years.

Pitchers & Catchers for sure,

Otherwise,

son & I noticed shortest lines at showcases the last couple of years at 3rd base,

arm strength a factor.

In games a capable 3rd baseman, especially in HS really stood out.

Too many 3b do the 'Ole" on grounders at 3rd,

If the "magnet" in their glove does not attract the ball, a fairly routine grounder in travel became a double in HS.

 

 

Not to derail my own thread...BUT...several of you have now mentioned catchers as the position that true talent can lack at all levels....which begs the question, why aren't kids lined up to play catcher?  Why at a tryout are there 75 kids lined up at SS and 4 kids at home plate with gear on?  If it takes great athleticism to do both why aren't there more SS to C conversions?

My older brother told my 2017 son when he was maybe 7-8. "You bat lefty and are right handed. You should be a catcher!" It seems like he took it to heart, or it was all a coincidence. But he started catching as his primary position starting about when he was 10 and has not stopped since. He's worked hard in LL, then travel, HS, and now showcase teams, including working with some high-level catching instructors who have encouraged him to keep pushing to get better because skilled and experienced catchers who can also hit are always in demand...

 

But also, as other have said, besides maybe the Nationals, who ever has enough quality pitching?

Our son was a SS on travel, etc. at 10 years old

The catcher on the older good travel team broke his finger.

No one was competent at catcher or else did not want to play there,

the coach ( a former player & great guy) asked our son to play up & catch (knowing he was the tight end and monster back in football), he was really good at SS, but as you say, a logjam of players ahead at shortstop including coaches son's, etc.

Catcher turned out to be his spot.

We learned it takes agility, ability, grit, energy and a hard-nose to play back there.

As people say the blocking & the good arm are key as you get older.

In HS (at least where we are) pitchers rarely hold runners on so having an arm to stop them at C wins games.

 

The days of the kid like from the "Sandlot" or Bad News Bears catching like when I was a kid are over.

 

PS- Recently thanked the coach again who brought him up and converted him for his foresight & help.

Because it's hard . . . because it hurts when you get hit by the ball . . . because the gear is hot and uncomfortable . . . because you get dirtier and sweatier than all your teammates . . . because all your mistakes are plainly visible to everyone . . . because half of the pitcher's mistakes get blamed on you . . . because the coach is on you more than he's on all the other players combined.

It is the most physically demanding.  Even many of the drills require getting the crap beat out of you.  Passed balls are going to happen and you will get the criticism for it.  The position requires more work away from normal practice than most others.  It also requires a rare and unique skill set and mentality to excel.  Vocal leader, good mind for the game, constant focus, ability to help get the most out of each pitcher, and this is on top of the need for physical attributes like strong arm, quick feet, athleticism, etc. 

 

PS - Oops, typing the same time as Swamp... and quite pleased at myself for having the same thoughts

Swampboy and cabbagedad hit the nail on the head.  It is also a thankless job.

One thing that really stands out to me is the lack of really good Coaching. Mostly at the lower levels. But still some in the High School/travel teams.

 

Many reasons.

 

First, when kids are little, coaches often put the slow, big, athletically-challenged kid at catcher. Pitcher and SS are the glamor positions (and even little kids pick up on that).

 

Later on, even though kids start to understand the market for catchers, most aren't interested. It would be like telling a forward hockey player to try goaltender. It's a totally different mentality. You wear hot, heavy equipment; squat several hundred times a game; get hit by foul balls, bounced pitches, base runners and the occasional bat; get yelled at for not blocking bad pitches; have to deal with pitcher, umpire and coach personalities; and pay very close attention on every single pitch. For most kids, that just isn't much fun. The rare few just love it.

 

Son was a SS through 14U and still plays there on occasion up to 16U-17U, but has switched mainly to catcher now. The showcases I have been too seem to have more and more catchers.   

 

Talent can be pretty scarce at all position at 13U and even 14U on 90' bases. Everything moves slow (throwing, hitting, running...). Pitching is an obvious one as they get older. On the position side, guys will get moved around based on their particular talents (catching being the exception, and you've already picked up on that). The important skill is hitting. The higher level you play, the more important it becomes.

Mine sort of did the opposite.  Played catcher in LL, travel ball, up through his sophomore year of HS.  He was very good at it.  Junior year HS coach moved him to 3B and the 1B his senior year.   He did not mind not catching as he actually hit better when he was not catching.  He was recruited for JC as 1B and again for D2.

Funny thing is he found he has a great pop time - 1.8.  The D2 coach needed a catcher for one intrasquad game (one of the catchers was hurt).  He did very well and the measured his pop time after the game.

 

As far as he's concerned 1B is now his position, but he'll play wherever the coach needs him. 

Yes to all the above. Maybe it's no accident that I always found it harder to get kids who wanted to catch in Texas and Arkansas than I did in Colorado where "high" humidity means 18%.

When my son was 8, we were walking past one of the big fields where there was a catching coach just finishing up a session.  He asked my son if he caught.  Well, he was just finishing coach pitch and at that age, you put the weaker kid behind the plate.  So my son says no.  The coach looked my son right in the eye and asked; why, are you scared?  My son took that as a challenge,  started catching that season, feel in love with the position.  He is now ranked as a top catcher by PG.  

I would say a top level youth catcher is critical and in short supply. Especially the one who can hit as well. Finding a catcher who can make the coaches look smart is even more rare. I have been thankful every game that I had one of the best in area before he outgrew us talent wise. And even more thankful that he showed the way for his backup to improve and take over.

 

Want to throw some bones to the SS out there too. Catcher is tough and has a lot of demands. SS is too on the big field. Its more than stopping grounders. You often have a runner crossing your vision, and umpire in the way, and the game on the line. With the added dimension of having to cover short pop flys from the LF line to CF. There may be 75 kids lined up to play that position because they think it is high profile, but there won't be but about 2 that can handle it. Even rarer is handle the fielding duties and hit for power.

 

Nobody has mentioned CF yet? Speed PLUS the ability to break/read early on a fly ball certainly is in demand. And sure seems to be lacking at the games I see.

Originally Posted by FoxDad:

Swampboy and cabbagedad hit the nail on the head.  It is also a thankless job.

 

I think “thankless” might be overstating it a bit, but for sure it isn’t a GLORY position the way some other positions are.

 

Speaking only for myself as an old catcher, I loved it! I loved being in charge of the defense, even though most people thought it was the SS. Having said that, I can’t see myself having continued to play that position and taking all the physical and verbal abuse if I wasn’t the one calling the pitches, but that’s just me.

Similar story My 2016 SS also was asked to play catcher a few years back as well due to a injury.

With his quick release from playing SS he ended up throwing out every basestealer that tried to run on him, so they stopped. 

 

My take on position 

Catcher certainly, although tend to agree with InterestedObserv.

CF as well as the other OF positions. 

I quote this all the time:

 

“One area in baseball that receives little attention from coaches is teaching proper catching techniques. In general, there is not enough practice time devoted to it and the result is a lack of quality catchers at all levels. The reasons for this can be attributed to a number of things, but mainly, the blame falls on coaches for not setting aside practice time and a coach's lack of catching knowledge.” (see http://www.baseball-catcher.com/guide.htm)

Pitching and catching at all levels.

Root... I was that crazy kid that loved catching 4-6 games a day in a St. Louis summer. I loved it because I got to be different from everyone else on the field. I loved putting the gear on.  As a coach I've come to find that there are kids that catch and then there are kids that want to catch. Some kids, freshman  mostly, say that they catch because they think it is an easy position to play. Once you start having them do receiving drills, blocking drills, fielding bunts, working on throws to bases, working on pop ups, learning everyone's positions for bunt and 1-3 defense, learning signals, then it is time to catch 4 bullpens. Oh now it is time to work on your offense. Those kids quickly end up at the other groups.

My son was an excellent catcher as a preteen. He started catching when he was nine. Catching was a way to be in the middle of the game all the time. I tried to discourage him. I told him he was too fast to be a catcher. His legs would get beat up. I also warned him catchers take a beating blocking pitches and on foul balls.

 

At eleven he started rotating between catcher and short during the regular LL season and travel. On all stars he caught every inning except pitching two seventh innings. At twelve he took a beating. He dropped ten pounds in the 90+ degree, 80+ humidity. Starting at 100 pounds it was 10% of his weight. He took a beating on foul balls and blocking pitches from a 75 mph wild pitcher. In end he was accidentally clubbed over the head on a back swing when a hitter lost his balance.

 

He went out for shortstop in middle school. He played wherever the pitcher came from (except catcher) on the 13u-16u travel teams. He became the heir apparent to short heading into high school. Junior year he was moved to center at the advice of a scout. He caught two innings in high school as an emergency when the two catchers got dinged up.

 

I remember when he played his last LL all star game catching the hard throwing, wild pitcher.**  As he was packing up his catching gear I heard him say, "Thank God I'm done with this insanity." His arms were black and blue the next day.

 

** One all star game (before pitch counts) the kid pitched a no hitter with 15 Ks, 7 walks and 5 hbp. 

 

My son was a catcher for many years in LL, travel ball, HS and Legion.  His sophomore year of HS he won the catcher's job over the senior.  His Jr year, coach moved him to 3B and then 1B his senior year.  One of his best buds took over the catching duties.

 

I remember asking him if that's what he wanted to do.  He said, "Yes, I'm tired of getting beat up behind the plate."  One of our aces threw 94+.  After one particular game coach said he needs more padding in his glove - his hand was purple from the pounding.  He didn't mind catching occasionally in legion, but he didn't want to do it "all the time."  His Legion coach was the one coach who trusted him enough to call the pitches (and hence the game).  His HS coach called the pitches no matter who was behind the plate.

 

Yeah, Stats, it's not a "glory" position, that's for sure.  Many don't see the blocked wild pitches, but they sure remember the one that got past him or the dropped tag at the plate.

 

Son is now a 1B at a D2 university and loves it.  He'll play anywhere coach puts him but his first love is 1B.

At the showcases/camps my son attended, catchers seemed to be "a plenty" with the fewest participants at 3rd base. Different travel teams my son was on also seemed to have the "black hole" at third base, so he often played there despite his footspeed.  A number of these same showcases moved players around in games SS/2B/3B by innings to see how versatile kids were. Funny though that the HOF has an abundance of third basemen which is why it took so long for Ron Santo to get into the Hall. (Mike Schmidt too was on veterans committee, and Santo didn't measure up to him)

3B is tough because you have to have a really strong arm, and those guys go to ss or pitching or are the catchers. You also have to be pretty good defensive player at the position as well.

The kids that want to be catchers as youth players, dont end up in that position in HS, the obvious stated here.  

I agree that in youth ball, the bigger kids are put in as catchers because there is less chance of injury.

Not sure if it pertains to this subject, but we see less "true" prospects at shortstop than any other position.  Some profile well at another position in the future.  Catchers would probably be the next position with the fewest number of "true" prospects. Still there are plenty of extremely talented young kids at most every position.

 

We see a lot of future second basemen and third basemen, but we see very few future second basemen playing that position in high school. Most future 2b play shortstop now.

Agree.

Most little guys who play a specific position don't when they get older.

 

 

A good 2014 catcher son played against several times was drafted last spring.

He is starting this year for a good middle of the country D1 at 3b.

(scouts who spoke with us mentioned this player may well be moving off C at the next level, however some forecasted 1b, kid is tall).

This player can hit and hit well with power.

At a certain level catchers have the arm for 3b, this player does,

if they have the agility can def play at 3b or if moved to 2b. (Biggio)

 

Many good points on the new MLB Top 10 Catchers Right Now show. recommend it.

Dave Valle in particular details aspects well.

Seems except for Sal Perez, tide turning vs the very tall catchers

(wear/tear, like Matt Wieters).

 

There have been lines of catchers at showcases & pro events,

from what we have seen:

many are not elite level throwing, receiving, sticking and blocking;

let alone running, running a game, positioning fielders and handling pitchers, etc.

Being a leader others like & respect is vitally important.

And being able to hit, especially with power is key.

There is a lot of responsibility, a lot to handle as a young player.

You cannot coast for a few plays like most other positions,

you're working every pitch let alone every hit ball.

 

Son said one of the best compliments a pro scout gave him was that he plays & hits like a Dominican catcher. He is a big Yadi fan.

(PC disclaimer- this scout is Dominican).

 

PS- To watch an elite shortstop is a pleasure & really stands out at the HS level.

 

 

And yes, being blamed when the pitcher crosses you by throwing a different pitch or a 57 foot bouncer on a pockmarked field is tough to swallow at any age.