Throwing at a Batter

Around here (Chicagoland) it starts to happen around the freshman year of HS.  Don't see it a lot but it happens.  The kids take it upon themselves at this point to deal with the issues they consider bush.  If one team is still chanting you will usually see a pitcher going after the kid who is being the most obnoxious.  Sometimes you will see if if a team is openly stealing signs.  Or if the batter is showing bunt and wiggling the bat all over the place on a 3-0 or a 3-1 pitch. 

I'm not a fan of the word "permissible," but I know what you are saying. I don't like it (generally) below college, because pitchers (again, generally) don't know the way to do it and batters don't know how to take it.

I'm with you on the permissible part. I am not actually a fan of it at any level but the reality is that it starts to happen at some point.  As I mentioned around here its about the time the kids start playing HS ball.

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

Since it is in the news today, let me ask:  At what age is it permissible to throw at a batter?  Under what circumstances? 

 

Its NEVER permissible under any circumstances! Now if professional ballplayers feel the need to do something so stupid, so be it, they’re adults and have to live with the consequences.

Professional level and nothing but them. 

I hear you on "permissible" but that was the only word I could think of early in the AM.  You have confirmed my thoughts.   

 

My issue is that I have seen it twice at 12 YO.  I am upset with myself that I didn't call BS at the time.   

I'm not a fan of it at any level. 

IMHO, pitchers don't know how to do it at the HS level and they shouldn't even try. With that said, my own son did it a few years ago in retaliation for the catcher smack tagging one of his teammates in the face, twice on the same play. In that case I understood why, but still don't agree.

 

What happened in the game was similar to what happened last night. A team that had the look of a team about to roll over and die suddenly came alive and ended up winning a game they might not have won otherwise.

 

I understand the concept of protecting team mates, but there is a time and a place for everything. Simply plunking the other player at the first opportunity doesn't always provide your team the best opportunity to win and that is ultimately what is the best payback.

I had not heard much talk of this until about 14U/High School level. Not a fan of throwing at people.  But I have heard my sons coaches explain that they want batters uncomfortable at the plate and you should come inside on them agressively.(not hit them but let the know you are coming in there)

 

I am not a fan of it, but I have seen some guys thrown at this summer for doing ridiculous show off stuff on the base paths after a hit etc...

 

I agree with Coach here, save it for the pros.

Ear-hole time!

Pro's only,  College and below, never. 

 

It's hard enough at the lower levels (LL thru HS) to get outs, why would you want to put a runner on base?

 

There's other ways to get "even".  Try winning the game.

 

 

I think some people get confused as to what throwing at someone means. Backing someone off of the plate by coming inside and drilling a hitter are two different things. Backing someone off and making them uncomfortable I would say high school at the latest. But drilling someone intentionally I don't think that comes into play until you are playing for money.

I agree, two different things.

Moving a batter's feet and changing his eye angle is one thing. Intentionally hitting a batter is totally different.

 

A major league pitcher taking four pitches to get it done looks foolish.

 

When my son did it (again, lots of long talks about how F'ng stupid I thought it was, possible police action, HS game and you lost because of it, etc) he threw two breaking balls away and then came in with a fastball into the knee area. The reason HS pitchers shouldn't do it is because they don't have the control to 'hit meat', which is thigh, butt, etc. A knee shot is potentially dangerous.

 

With that said, in his one year of D-I college ball it really doesn't happen. They don't want to put baserunners on to retaliate for something that they could easily fix with a crooked number on offense.

 

In Alaska league summer ball, look out. They'll throw at the mascott if he doesn't bow properly.

I will also add in my experience HS players are not TOLD to do it. Any HS coach who asks a pitcher to drill some kid won't be a HS coach by the end of the following week, at least in these parts of the country.

I think there are two huge factors to consider - purpose and intent.  If the purpose of throwing inside is to set up another pitch or climb the ladder to get a swing then I'm all for it because it's part of the game.  Sadly getting hit by pitches is part of the game but it needs to be because you failed to execute a pitch.  To many bad things can happen when trying to do it on purpose.

 

If the intent is there TO throw at the batter then there is a problem.  Google Ray Chapman if you don't know who he is.

I'm talking here about throwing at the batter with the intent to hit him.

 

Happened on my kid's team twice this year.  We threw in retaliation for something some "adult" did.  Usually took several pitches.  I thought it was BS at 12 yo but kept my mouth shut.  Looking back at crap like that, I am glad he moved on to other opportunities.     

I've been around four intentional hbp.

 

1. College- I drilled a hitter who came in high on our 2b tearing up his knee and needing surgery.

 

2. 17u- Son's teammate drilled hitter who went inside the line to stomp on 1b's ankle.

 

3. 16u- One of my pitchers drilled opposing pitcher who was pointing at hitters and then the dugout after whiffing them (jerkoff son of former mlb'er). I didn't give him permission. He had the control to dot the I. He pitches in college now.

 

In all three cases it was a player doing what he thought was right. Coaches were not involved.

 

In LL my son drilled a kid who had run him over fielding a grounder at short earlier in the game. Publicly I chewed out my son right on the mound. Privately I told him I wasn't upset (couldn't stand the kid) but don't ever do it again.

Sophomore son has an 11-1 record as a starting pitcher. His only loss came against our biggest rival where things got emotional and a senior (D1 prospect) asked him to retaliate after a four year rival plunked him at the plate. Son was happy to oblige. In hind sight he realizes that that kind of emotion not only generated a loss (of focus) but also painted a target on his back and perpetuated an unhealthy rivalry. There will always be someone on the team who remembers some "injustice" thus the Hatfield and McCoys continues.

Only did it once in all my years of pitching. Started the second game of a double header (D1), opposing lead off hitter (cocky) was 4 for 4 in the first game. I was told by the coaches to hit him on the first pitch between the shoulder blades. I was a little reluctant especially as a freshman, bit I did my job and never had to do it again.     

 

In my playing career I never hit an opposing batter on purpose and never once thought to. I've had this conversation with many people in professional baseball, with various levels of agreement. I understand the concept of standing up for your teammates and showing that you feel disrespected by an opponent's actions. But I can't fathom how it is logical to help the other team by putting a runner on base. My goal is to get the batter out, why is it "sending a message" in a positive manner by openly and freely allowing him to reach first base? Surely there has to be a better way to back your teammates up without negatively impacting your team at the same time...

I just remembered. I led a college summer league in hbp.  I batted behind the league leader in homers. He also led the league in whiffing and throwing bats. I spent the summer dodging flying objects. In the 70s getting knocked down after a homer was part of the game.

Originally Posted by J H:

In my playing career I never hit an opposing batter on purpose and never once thought to. I've had this conversation with many people in professional baseball, with various levels of agreement. I understand the concept of standing up for your teammates and showing that you feel disrespected by an opponent's actions. But I can't fathom how it is logical to help the other team by putting a runner on base. My goal is to get the batter out, why is it "sending a message" in a positive manner by openly and freely allowing him to reach first base? Surely there has to be a better way to back your teammates up without negatively impacting your team at the same time...

 

It never occurred to you because you thought about what would be happening and the possible consequences, then made an adult decision. Unfortunately, most of the time the situation comes up, testosterone and emotions take over and clear thinking goes the way of the dinosaurs. Anyone who thinks its ok, should consider a kid with a baseball smashing into his face, breaking bones and causing blindness because someone dissed one of the pitcher’s teammates or hit a home run off him.

This past season a player of ours stole second and went down for the slide.  Catcher lost the ball in the transfer for the throw and never threw down to 2nd.   As coaches we assumed the runner knew what had happened as he looked back to the batter box area and the umpire must have never communicated the call after my runner asked him, the 2nd basemen says "it was a foul ball" so my runner starts running off the bag back to me.   I yell at him to get on that bag as the 2nd basemen sneaks back to 2B and is motioning for the ball.  Smile on his face he peers at my base runner and his SS.  I never said a word to anyone about it as my players talked it out in the dugout discussing the play and the confusion.  Next time the opposing 2Bmen is up to bat he is promptly seemed up in the back.  Their 2nd basement knew why after he was hit and told my 1Bmen I guess I should of knew that was coming.

 

They worked it out on the field of play..............in the context of the situation I am ok with it but I would never ask it be done at my direction.