Throwing at a batter on purpose

I can't think of any valid reason for this to occur at the HS level, even if you "feel" the other team is intentionally throwing at players on your own team. The control just isn't always there.

I won't answer for the College level, though I believe it's talked about more than it really happens. I suspect that it is relatively uncommon in the minors also.

I would think a college coach who did not protect his players would not have any respect.

Justbaseball,
My son plays in the SEC and I would be surprised if any pitcher on my son’s team intentionally threw at a batter. I think these players are doing as instructed by the coaching staff because they know in order to stay in the pitching rotation, they have to please their coaches. If a coach approves of throwing at a batter, then I would expect most players would do as instructed and I doubt there are any coaches in the SEC that approve of intentionally throwing at a batter. These players have sacrificed a lot to get to where they are and if they fail to do as instructed there are many good players waiting in the wings to step up and take their spot. I have seen lots of “brush backs”, some hard slides and trash talking, but nothing that would do bodily harm like a bean ball.
My son was plunked pretty good last Sunday on the elbow (unintentional I’m sure) and then came in to close in the 9th. With a 6-0 lead it would have been an opportunity to retaliate and I can tell you he never had any thoughts about throwing at a batter. All he wanted to do was pitch to the best of his ability.
I have heard of talk of intentionally throwing at batters during the high school years (and have seen a few incidents) but I think most of that was the result of teen-age hormones shorting out the brain’s thought process.
Fungo

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

just...In major college and in professional ball...only when someone is intentionally trying to embarrass you!

My son played at Misssissippi State in the SEC. Happens regularly...just ask MSU and LSU players.

Don't agree with it, I like to see a pitcher throw inside but not hit the batter, it's better to strike a guy out on the inside than put a runner on first.
I've seen it happen at high school level and lower unfortunately.
The big tip-off is when the catcher obviously sets up behind the batter.

Well around here it happens. Im not saying I agree with it but it happens. At the High School level your kidding yourself if you think that it does not happen. 17 18 19 year old guys on rare occaisons get caught up in the moment and yes it happens. I personally would never condone it. But I have had guys loose their composure and hit guys on purpose. I have dealt with it in a very stern manner. I have also had it happen to my players. I never say a word to the other teams players. I take it up with the opposing coach. Sometimes it can get ugly but you have to protect your players. Hey its baseball and its not always Alice in Wonderland. You deal with it and move on.

Whether or not throwing at a batter is ok can be debated forever. What I think is absolutely wrong is throwing intentionally at or near a batter's head - ala Roger Clemens and his "neckties". Any message can be sent or a player backed off the dish without threatening his career/life at any level.

I can live with alot of stuff. But I will go off over head shots. In fact if I knew that one of my kids threw at someones head they would be gone. And if I knew that a coach told a kid to throw at one of my kids heads I would probaly end up in the stands because I would kick his A**.

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I think these players are doing as instructed by the coaching staff because they know in order to stay in the pitching rotation, they have to please their coaches.

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Don't know that I quite agree with that, Fungo. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a coach who would actually "instruct" a pitcher to throw at a batter. I would imagine that they would avoid any insinuation that it was done at their direction or instruction. Rather, of the cases I have heard about, it wasn't from anything the coaches said or did ... but a "team understanding" that a message "needed to be sent" to the other team. Some pitchers hear the message, some don't. But I have never heard of any repercussions because a pitcher chose not to send a message to another team.

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Go Highlanders
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Call me Alice but there is a plate and there is a batters box. The batter has every right to occupy the limits of the box. If the other team is lighting you up with the bats it is because they are better hitters than you are a pitcher.

I'm with Fungo here( War Eagle), if you are good enough to hit the batter in a specific region then you should be able to make your pitch.

The game need class people and class people don't do that( sorry LSU; if you do employ this method)). The World Wrestling Federation would like you others.Throwing at batters says to the world that you don't think that you are good enough to get them out with out breaking the rules.

The Coach sets the tone for sportsmanship and ethics. Play with class and win or lose with class.

We could debate the morality issue forever but if you guys think the intentional HBP only happens at the college and pro level, you are kidding yourselves.

I think it is funny that everyone is now re-writing "The Book". There were no Barry Bonds type struts when you homered off Koufax or Bob Gibson. Why does it happen now?

Heck, HS kids are even primping and posturing after they go yard. If you do that, you are begging to be hit.

A few of you mention a kid's control being a factor in whether or not to hit someone. If your pitcher does not have enough control to hit the batter anywhere from the thighs to the mid back, he shouldn't be pitching!

Swingbuster, you say:

"Throwing at batters says to the world that you don't think that you are good enough to get them out with out breaking the rules."

What rules are you breaking when you plunk someone?

I believe that hitting someone has its place in the game (and I was a hitter). The problem is that there are very few coaches who understand its place.

Coach May & Highlandermom have hit it right.

It does occur in HS. And I can't imagine a coach giving a direct order. It is an understanding. Perhaps a comment from the coach, "Got his number?", "That boy is asking for trouble.", "Now that wasn't very neighborly, was it?", etc. But not "Son, plunk number 4."

It can occur at lower levels than HS. I only allowed this as a coach when it appeared necessary to protect my players. An intentional spiking of one of my players, an intentional beanball. But my pitchers knew never to throw at the batter's head. At the youth levels, hotdogging was not an adequate reason to "send a message". Physical protection was adequate.

"Show me a guy who can't pitch inside and I'll show you a loser." Sandy Koufax

Hitting a batter or knocking him down is not the same as throwing at his head.

A pitcher can send a "message" without throwing at the head---the problem is today kids are not taught the methods and means of sending "messages".

When I played, if the guy in front of me homered I knew the first pitch was coming "inside"--it was all part of the game.

Coming inside or knocking a guy down is not the same as "head hunting" and therein lies the danger with todays kids--they dont know the difference

TRhit

I really don't think it goes on in hs or college either -
but am amazed at how a pitcher with pretty good control can become so distracted by unsportsmanlike situations - like a spikes high slide out of the baseline, or a hitter standing at home plate watching his "dinger" sail over the fence - that a pitch will soon just "get away from him" and put a "Rawlings" on someone's ribs

Red, they know about it, but like TR & Tex said, they just don't talk about it much, unless subtley



lefties? - - - they just aint right!

If you are leaning over the plate, then you better duck. Any pitcher worth his salt is going to back you off the plate. At any level. It is part of the game. Using the "as long as he stands in the box" excuse is no different than the "he is leaning over my plate" excuse. If you are down by 10 runs and the other team is stealing , bunting, and hit and running, they also better be ducking, bobbing, and weaving, because I am going to but a fb into the butt cheeks or ribcage. Headhunting at any level is in poor taste, imo, unless you are in the AL and your name is Pedro and the other team is the Yankees.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

High school game, big rival, kid hits a long foul ball down third base line. Called foul as he is rounding first. Hitter makes it a point of walking over mound and past pitcher and actually stops on mound to get a handful of dirt. Next pitch between shoulder blades. Noone had to tell pitcher what to do, noone had to tell hitter it was coming. Not a word was said about the plunking. As a coach I will never tell a pitcher to hit someone but my pitchers know how to control the inside half of the plate or to take it back if needed or to send a message. Another game, up 10, lead off hitter drops down a perfect drag bunt, stupid but wasn't thinking. Our next hitter gets it in the back. I don't have a problem with it as long as it is not at the head.

This summer when playing the cross town rivals, they announced to everyone at their school a couple of days before the game they were going to take out some of our players. We got a call from my youngest sons girlfriend who attends that school and she told us.

At that game my oldest was on first. The other players threw elbows at him, ran him over etc. My son came home from that game black and blue. The only thing my son did was vent at the umpire after taking one of the shots. After a few of these shots, and they were obvious, the Umpire even told the opposing coach to knock off the dirty play or he would forfeit the game.


Fast forward to the rematch. My oldest is on the mound, and first batter is one of the guys that was taking the cheap shots. The batter came up to the plate, smiled at my son and winked at him.

My son knocked him down with a 89MPH Fastball. He didn't throw at him, but he threw high and in. The kid got up (not smiling) brushed himself off and there were no problems the next two games.

So yes, there is a time to send a message.

Play every game as if it were your last

During my son's sophmore year of high school he was the starting pitcher in a very important district game. He had pitched against this team early in the season and shut them down. We were the visitors , my son was batting second in the order. First pitch came very close to his head but he was able to move away in time. Second pitch hit him on his hand so hard it caused his middle finger to bust open. The pitcher who re-placed him, was also hit his first at bat. After he was hit, the umpire walked over and said something to the coach. No other batter through out the game was hit or even close to hit. Was it intentionally? Did the pitcher suddenly find his control? Guess we will never know.

What rules are you breaking when you plunk someone?

IF a pitcher is pitching well why not release that bat right back through the box at him? People throw them in the stands by mistake ; why not at the pitcher. Is that a rule that you would be breaking? Is it a rule written in baseball that you just can't shoot him with a gun if he is on. No sense letting him settle in and beat you with his good stuff. Keep him watching for that bat or heck , the gun even!
Oh yeah! don't throw the bat at his head, that would be poor sportsmanship ; better stay down around the legs.

Redbird,, Maybe someone will post a clip of you after your son gets two good hits and the opposing pitcher puts one between his shoulder blades. I'm saying you would take exception at the very least.Or will you defend the "rule"
How big an ole boy are you? I don't think I would want to find out in that case

swing...Sounds like you've been on too many hunting trips.

I would never throw at a batter...but...if your team is leading 33-0 and you are batting for the 7th time in the 7th inning of a game and you had hit a grand slam the last time up...guess what?

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if your team is leading 33-0 and you are batting for the 7th time in the 7th inning of a game and you had hit a grand slam the last time up...guess what?

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Guess what?

You become SEC Player of the Week!

If you are down 10 zip and they are hitting homers and have not put the young players in the game then throw 4 balls outside and walk 15 batters in a row. If you have lost it mentally there are plenty of stupid things you can do. Base on balls same as a hit batsman. See how long they want to stay at the park.

The coach tells the players what to do and who bats next so don't hit kids with baseballs on purpose. Maybe we have immature coaches and thats the problem. Don't schedule them next year! Sorry, I won't do it

swingbuster,

I never said to plunk someone because they are hitting well - only to send a message when they show you up. If I were a pitcher, I would drill Bonds as soon as he started his prancing and posing. If he does that c.r.a.p. after hitting a bomb, why doesn't he do it after he whiffs or grounds out?

I am a hitter so don't mistake me as protecting the pitchers.

Plunking someone is part of the game, whether you guys like it or not.

I know that at the high school level it has been reported or rumored that pitchers were told to throw at hitters. Why? Well I guess the usual. Some coaches just do not get it. You do not bunt and steal with a big lead however with the mercy rule or 10 run rule it could be the 5th inning and you are up 9-0 and you are doing anything to score that run(saves a pitcher from throwing 2 innings) so you bunt steal or whatever. However any high school coach who tells his pitcher to throw at a batter has to live with the consequences. Over my tenure there were a couple of times we were getting our noses rubbed in it. You just put that in the back of your mind and you go by the theory what goes around comes around. Tell a kid to throw at a batter? Never did it.

a friend was a veteran "late reliever" - when he was called in the 4th inning (ala Jeff Kent antics) - he knew why he was there - teach the young guys about communication & send a message

lefties? - - - they just aint right!

At the High School level as a coach do es anybody instruct their players to throw at a batter?

last year, my junior season in high school, i would have loved to plunk a trash talkin player from our rival school but ya know what made me feel even better, making it my personal goal to see him go 0-4 on the day. What speaks louder than the next days write up? Thats whats fun about pithcing, you can make sure someone doesnt get a hit. you can give up and watch them jog to first or limp to first, or you can watch them go back to the dugout 4 times with the head hangin low. i like the latter!

HighHeat34

Your the guy I want on my team. Wisdom from a 17 yo young man. Hope you grow up and coach some youth ball. Bravo!

swingbuster,

You added the following after I commented above: "Redbird,, Maybe someone will post a clip of you after your son gets two good hits and the opposing pitcher puts one between his shoulder blades. I'm saying you would take exception at the very least.Or will you defend the "rule"
How big an ole boy are you? I don't think I would want to find out in that case"

Well, if my son was running his mouth and letting everyone know he had 2 hits, he deserves to get plunked. If the pitcher was just upset because he had 2 hits, then I would take exception.

You see, if someone is chirping from the dugout or strutting after a hit, they deserve to be drilled.

It's part of understanding the game. One note: after a trash talker gets plunked in the ribs or between the shoulder blades, he tends to get real quiet.

Redbird,

Talk to me after someone intentionally hurts your son during a game. I've had them lay mine down just because he can hit. It starts a bad cycle of events. It is usually not the kids idea..thats the bad part

Redbird writes:
Well, if my son was running his mouth and letting everyone know he had 2 hits, he deserves to get plunked. If the pitcher was just upset because he had 2 hits, then I would take exception.

And who makes this judgement?...thats where the problem starts

This is not about peoples sons. This is about baseball and players. It does not matter whos son it is or who son it is not. Baseball must be respected by all those who play and coach the game. There are rules and there are unwritten rules. To me they are the same. They are the rules. If a player is disrespecting the game it is the coachs job to get him in line. It is not the job of players to get other players from opposing teams in line by stooping to goon like tactics that could ruin a kids career. If an opposing team is showing no class then I will take it up with the opposing coach. I will not be a coward and leave it in the hands of a 17 year old kid. If the coach does not fix the problem then I will not schedule them again. If it is a conference opponent then I will take it up with my AD and his AD and if need be go to higher authorities. I am not going to tell one of my guys to throw at another kid and that kid get injured then my player has to live with my poor judgement. That is not what baseball is about. This is the High School web and that is what I am referring to.

Bless you Coach May ...well said..I agree

Very well said, Coach May, I'm in total agreement.
HighHeat34: You are a class act. Way to compete!!!
My own kid feels much the same, better to fool them than put them on first. He also has been on the receiving end of a beanball.
It definitely happens in high school. And with some of these pitchers throwing so hard, I've seen some batters at HS level get hurt pretty badly. I feel it is definitely bush league.

Coach May, HiHeat34, others... I've really enjoyed what you all have to say.

Wanna ask a twist to this question. It has seemed to me that I've seen top pitchers in HS get plunked more than anyone else. I know our son has been hit a number of times. And 2 years ago in AAU Nationals, one of our top pitchers was drilled in the back twice in a close game - the other team's pitcher wasn't hitting that game. Seemed intentional to me.

Anyone else got the feeling that good HS pitchers get drilled a little more often than would seem normal?

________________
"Pitching is the art of instilling fear," Sandy Koufax.

One of our "respected" coaches where we live even went as far as telling a story about how upset he was when his pitcher didnt throw at a batter after celebrating hitting 2 homeruns in a game. His Jv coach had a word for it....earhole.....now imagine a bunch of 16 yr olds excited about plunking someone...that is what occurs...or occured. The jv coach played for the head coach when he was in high school. I just feel that there are other ways of sending a message. I just lost a whole lot of respect for that coach after that incident.

I have not seen this personally. What I have seen is the kid that usually gets plunked intentionally is either showboating or is a stud and the other guys are just jealous and thats the only way they can get back at him. Whatever the reason its uncalled for. The pitchers intention might be to hit him in the butt or between the blades. The problem with that is the kid might not be able to react in time and get it in the face or temple. Is is really worth the risk? Heck no its not. I dont see where this is even debatable really.

I think "plunk " is a little benign don't you. Baseballs cause bleeding into the tissues, busted fingers, fractures. When you throw at someone how do you know what will happen . The only thing you know is that it is not happening to you and you have no control over what it will do.

swingbuster,

It is obvious that we don't agree on this topic. I have formed my opinion from my playing days and being exposed to the game at the highest levels.

I agree with Coach May's post, however, I am talking about it from a player's perspective, not a coach's. I never said a coach should advise a player to plunk someone. A coach should handle it coach to coach.

And, no, I don't think plunk is a benign term. Sliding into 2B and taking out the SS on a DP causes broken skin, bleeding tissue, fractures, etc. I have the scars and floating bone chips to prove it. Since I wasn't looking or had no control over the situation, should I have been upset or is it part of the game? It was obvious that he was trying to hurt me.

You guys seem to forget that a "message" can be sent without hitting the batter.

At the upper levels , college and beyond the players tend to take care of business themselves and in the proper fashion

TRhit