Throwing at batters in HS

No.

Never, not even in college baseball.

No.  It's high school, the pitcher would probably miss.

Huh?

Does the Coach coach at 3rd base or 1st base? Define "sanctioned".

Bob

No. From a coaching standpoint  It’s rare for a high school pitcher to have the kind of control to put the ball right where he wants.

From a parent’s standpoint my son was injured, had to come out and couldn’t play the next game after taking a pitch on the knee. A coach decided he should be hit every at bat. My son was forewarned and still got hit twice. He refused to move off his spot in the box.

All you have to do to get a hitter somewhere on his body is throw slightly behind him. It’s natural to back away from the plate.

@Consultant posted:

Does the Coach coach at 3rd base or 1st base? Define "sanctioned".

Bob

The coach is calling pitches from the third base dugout.

I don't know if "sanctioned" is the right word. But a real regular season highschool game.

Just didn't want it to be confused with the travel ball ,scrimmage or any other, tournament.

So in this "hypothetical" situation. The coach in question is getting cranky because the offense was stealing third base up 7 runs in the 6th.

He apparently gave a sign to the catcher to hit the batter at the plate that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation while he's in the dugout coaching 15 ft away from the opposition 3rd base coach that he could have easily addressed if he had a problem with it.

The "hypothetical" bright side.... Both the catcher and pitcher had no idea what the sign given to them meant and proceeded business as usual until they were chewed out after the game.

I think the coach is 100% in the wrong to put kids on both sides in harm's way.

I'm going to give some grace and chalk it up to a bad day, but if I hear about something like this again he's going to have a problem.

And just for perspective, my player has been in the program for years and other than a hello at the initial parents meeting I've never spoken to this coach. He probably doesn't even know who I am. So I am not a boat rocker, but I think it's a super weak move.

@DaddyBaller posted:

....................................................................................

I think the coach is 100% in the wrong to put kids on both sides in harm's way.

I'm going to give some grace and chalk it up to a bad day, but if I hear about something like this again he's going to have a problem.

And just for perspective, my player has been in the program for years and other than a hello at the initial parents meeting I've never spoken to this coach. He probably doesn't even know who I am. So I am not a boat rocker, but I think it's a super weak move.

Absolutely.  At the end of the day these are kids, playing a kids game.   

Like most people, you've probably seen some not so great things happen on a baseball field by accident, nevermind an intentional act meant to do harm.  I've seen some bad stuff that I'll never forget.  One kid squared to bunt a fastball thrown by my oldest son when he was very loose on a hot spring evening.  A cross checker was in the stands and had him throwing in the 90s that night.  The ball went off the bat into the hitters mouth.  This was a very tough kid who went on to play college football.  The ump and coaches spent the better part of 10-15 minutes looking for his teeth in the batters box under the lights.   My son felt horrible even though he threw a strike.  Thankfully, there was a dentist in the stands who knew exactly what to do, and got the player taken care of.   Hitting a player is absolute bush-league $hit, and I'm glad you feel that way @DaddyBaller.

My eldest, in college, squared to sac bunt and the pitch came way inside. He tried to get out of the way but the ball just kept riding in on him, hit the bat, and deflected up into his mouth. Missed a week of games and now has a lopsided, yet appealing (according to his girlfriend) grin.

How about if the the player/team does it on their own for some reason? And if no, what do you think the appropriate discipline should be?

@nycdad posted:

How about if the the player/team does it on their own for some reason? And if no, what do you think the appropriate discipline should be?

This situation came up in Georgia. At the 17u WWBC a runner out of frustration intentionally stomped/spiked the first baseman’s ankle when he made an out  My son told me after the game the  pitcher in the game and the next scheduled pitcher agreed whichever one was in the game would take care of business. The coaches had nothing to do with the decision.

In a college game in the Seventies an opponent blew up our second baseman’s knee with a high, spikes first, cheap shot slide. All the pitching coach said was, “Do you understand what needs to be done?”

I was in the mound when the hitter came up again. I had never trained to hit batters. I knocked down a few in high school. It took four pitches. After missing three times trying to dot his chest I threw behind him. He backed into it.

The hitter charged the mound. My catcher tackled him before he got there. I got blindsided by someone coming out of the dugout. It was a high school friend. He told me he wouldn’t hurt me as badly as others wanted. The hitter, catcher, guy who blinded sided me and I were all tossed. Fortunately it wasn’t a conference game.  

That summer my friend had some choice words about the character of the opponent who injured our second baseman. But you stick up for your teammates.

7 runs in a HS game isn't all that insurmountable.  The game isn't over.  I'm going to try and get to 10 so we can end early and save some pitching.  Dude needs to get over himself.

But no there is zero reason to throw at a hitter in HS - especially one that hasn't done anything. 

I would hope the pitcher knows enough to take care of business without being told.  I don't think a coach should put that pressure on a kid.  But not all infractions warrant 1. hitting anyone and 2. hitting a kid because of a the other coach being a pita or 3. hitting the next kid based on what a teammate did.

A better lesson would have been the third baseman slapping the tag a bit high and across the face vs hitting the next guy at the plate.

Back in the day I would have thought nothing of it.  I was taught to put one up under the chin from the time I was 9 years old.  As far as for policing the game or as a retaliation for breaking an unwritten rule,,,everyone on the planet knew why it was happening, today everyone is like,  why would he hit me, so it has no policing or deterrent affect, since nobody thinks, oh, I was hit because I did this, instead it's always, how dare he hit me, I didn't do anything.

As the old saying goes,  if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

btw, the up and in pitch is the easiest to get away from, simple turn and duck.  but with players all wearing so much protection and not expecting anyone to throw at them, they often are deer stuck in the headlights, so I think the whole concept is a bit hard to do anymore, which is why officials need to take better control of games in situations they can.

@coach2709 posted:

7 runs in a HS game isn't all that insurmountable.  The game isn't over.  I'm going to try and get to 10 so we can end early and save some pitching.  Dude needs to get over himself.

But no there is zero reason to throw at a hitter in HS - especially one that hasn't done anything.

Yup! 

My son and another freshman both hit a home run in a high school game.  Our JV dugout cheering was LOUD, making sure the other team knew it was FRESHMEN that just homered (obnoxious high school behavior, IMO). Next at bat, BOTH of them got plunked - no one else.  Was hard to not think it was intentional.  My son and the other freshman didn't care much - they were on base for their team.

Appropriate?  No.  But I think it happens.  Not sure if that was the coach or just the pitcher, though.

No!  And if an opposing coach had had their pitcher hit my son on purpose....and I knew about it...there would have been a "discussion" when the coach came out of the dugout after the game lol

Back when I was playing college summer ball one year I was recruited to be the #2 hitter. This was when the #2 was left handed (to hit behind the runner), fast and had at least gap power.

Overall the team wasn’t hitting well. I was having my best summer season. I was moved to #4 behind our best power hitter. This guy got ticked when he struck out and threw his bat at the bat rack. He also hit a lot of homers

I spent the season ducking bats flying through the on deck circle or getting knocked down by ticked off pitchers who were just taken deep (how the game was played in the 70’s). Padding wasn’t a thing then. I should have been dressed like the Michelin Man for safety.

Last HS season 2024 was on the bump for a big conference game when a kid hit a high fly ball that just carried over a relatively short fence that would have been an easy out at our home field and many others. Plunked the next guy with the next pitch. Oh, boy...the crowd and dugout reaction was what you would expect.

He immediately reacted like it was an accident, and I kind of wondered if it was as he likes to go up-and-in on guys hanging over the plate. He walked over to the kid as he was trotting to 1st and apologized to him and the 1B coach. The kids know each other a bit.

I asked him after the game what really happened and he said "all I could think of after the HR was don't hit this guy..."

He talked with the guys and coaches on the other team after the game, and everything was good. That team later defeated our boys in the district finals and won the state championship for our class.

I don't think that dotting anyone intensionally at any level is appropriate - you're possibly taking the game (sometimes livelihood) away from another player.  However, there will always be some that lean on the past to justify bad behavior.

Hitters are going to get dotted, the pitcher owns at least a ball's width on both sides of the plate (pitchers dad). If fastball has a lot of arm side run and the hitter is looking slider... My kid plunked Yadier Molina, one of his all-time favorite players, it happens.  

In HS, regardless of what the parents think, it's an anomaly for a pitcher to have good control. At Arkansas I was amazed at how many pitchers didn't see games because they couldn't consistently throw strikes (quickest way to lose your opportunity as a pitcher at Arkansas - walks).

It's bad behavior to throw at someone, however I feel most of the HS drama is honest mistakes with players that have histories and the narratives that players and parents create.

@JucoDad posted:

I don't think that dotting anyone intensionally at any level is appropriate - you're possibly taking the game (sometimes livelihood) away from another player.  However, there will always be some that lean on the past to justify bad behavior.

Hitters are going to get dotted, the pitcher owns at least a ball's width on both sides of the plate (pitchers dad). If fastball has a lot of arm side run and the hitter is looking slider... My kid plunked Yadier Molina, one of his all-time favorite players, it happens.  

In HS, regardless of what the parents think, it's an anomaly for a pitcher to have good control. At Arkansas I was amazed at how many pitchers didn't see games because they couldn't consistently throw strikes (quickest way to lose your opportunity as a pitcher at Arkansas - walks).

It's bad behavior to throw at someone, however I feel most of the HS drama is honest mistakes with players that have histories and the narratives that players and parents create.

  The quickest way to lose your opportunity as a pitcher on ANY college team - walks.
  There is so much bad behavior in HS baseball and I still support the unwritten rules - at least most of them. I do not condone intentionally hitting a batter in HS. But I have no problem with whatever a HS pitcher has to do to own the inside part of the plate. If that means knocking some guys down to back them off the plate, so be it. Every hitter understands the risk they are taking when they stand right on top of the plate. It’s an attempt to intimidate the pitcher and a pitcher can’t allow it to go on. Good umpires (as rare as they may be in HS) understand this. Bad umpires don’t.  And  the lack of experience/knowledge among HS umpires is contributing to all of the behavioral problems.

Thanks to all that have responded.

So on this board with literally hundreds of years of experience around the game my kid seems to be the only lucky one to have a HS coach give orders to hit an innocent batter.

I thought it was ridiculous when I heard about it and the feedback here has only confirmed it.

He's opening himself and the school district up to liability if it were to lead to an injury.

Intent matters. Pitchers always have plausible deniability if they do it on their own. Sometimes the ball doesn't go where they wanted it to.

But "that's how the game is played" isn't gonna fly as an explanation for why a school district employee instructed a student to hit another student if lawyers get involved.

@auberon posted:

He's opening himself and the school district up to liability if it were to lead to an injury.

Intent matters. Pitchers always have plausible deniability if they do it on their own. Sometimes the ball doesn't go where they wanted it to.

But "that's how the game is played" isn't gonna fly as an explanation for why a school district employee instructed a student to hit another student if lawyers get involved.

Well, the precedent that was set by the California Supreme Court states  that every batter assumes the risk when stepping into the batters box.  This was in response to a case in the JUCO level in which a pitcher "intentionally" hit a batter in the head.   The final Supreme Court ruling was that the batter assumes the risk regardless of the motivation of the pitcher.

Not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, but if an adult in position of authority directs a minor to intentionally cause harm to another minor, at the very least they are losing their job.

@Ster posted:

Well, the precedent that was set by the California Supreme Court states  that every batter assumes the risk when stepping into the batters box.  This was in response to a case in the JUCO level in which a pitcher "intentionally" hit a batter in the head.   The final Supreme Court ruling was that the batter assumes the risk regardless of the motivation of the pitcher.

In that case it was not alleged that a school district employee directed the pitcher to throw at hitters. The liability of the school district is much greater for actions of their employees than actions of their students.