Throwing error or first baseman fielding error?

case #1 -2 Throwing error, unless attempting to complete DP and batter doesn't advance to 2nd base.
Case #3 Error on Ist baseman AND infielder is credited with an assist.

Is case # 1 truly a thorwing error? Or is a first baseman expected to pick a throw in the dirt provided it does not pull him off the bag and is 'handleable' by a proficient firstbasemen without extrordinary effort?

If it is an error, am I to assume that any ball that strikes the ground before reaching the first baseman that is not handled by the first baseman is a throwing error?

A followup to my previous post ....

OBR 10-13 (3) An error shall be charged against any fielder whose throw takes an unnatural bounce, or touches a base or the pitcher’s plate, or touches a runner, a fielder or an umpire, thereby permitting any runner to advance.

To me, the key here is "unnatural bounce". I would not consider a ball 'handleable' by a proficient first baseman to be an "unnatural bounce". Yet, an error should certainly be charged if the batter should have been put out.

Bottom line, it comes down to the scorekeeper's judgment.

But I'm guessing you'd find that most scorekeepers who have some experience will pretty universally credit the error to the fielder if the ball bounces before it reaches the first baseman ... even if the first baseman is great at scooping those bouncers.

Thoughts from others?

I would charge E5. Even though first baseman normally would make that play it is still going to be E5 for throwing it in the dirt... look at it this way....all the scoops out of the dirt for an out that the first baseman makes is just the firstbaseman saving his teammate from a lousy throw...but not all the ones in the dirt can be saved! Blame the grounds keeper for rocks or something but not the first baseman. (My son plays 3rd btw... and if he throws it in the dirt it's his fault!)

Flintoid,

it is not possible for an infielder to be given an assist if no out is made.

1. If a fielder throws it in the dirt, and the first baseman doesn't scoop it, it is an error on the throw.
2. Same rule applies.
3. Scorers' discression.


www.blastbat.com

quote:

Originally posted by C_PEN_Bears:
Flintoid,

it is not possible for an infielder to be given an assist if no out is made.



www.blastbat.com

not true. If there would have been an out but for a subsequent error (dropped by the first baseman for example), an assist IS given.

SJ is correct, & cpb is mistaken. This is spelled out in the rules.

Scenario 1 & 2 - E on the throw.
Scenario 3 - E3.

By longstanding convention, with any throw that goes into the dirt the error goes to the thrower and not the receiver.

yes, an assist is credited. Assists are NOT just given when an out is made. You CANNOT take away a fielder's accolades (3rd, SS, 2B) because of a lousy 1st baseman. Example: 1st baseman is lousy and commits 5 errors in a game, 3 from 3rd base and 2 from shortstop. Should have caught all 5 (no bounces, no errant throws). So you don't give credit to the infielders??? No, no, no...you DO give credit because they cannot have an assist taken away because of a lousy teammate. There have been cases where 1st baseman have done that on purpose because they knew they weren't going to make a team or they were about to get cut and they were trying to sabotage the stats of their fellow teammate, and guess what....they didn't realize that you are awarded for an assist regardless. I laughed for days when a teammate did that to another person on our team.