timeline changed?

I'll share a summary of our journey in hopes that it may help someone out or give them peace of mind.    Son is a 2017 outfielder we live in western PA.   He played in-house rec "all star" travel ball until he was 11.  No exposure to anyone there.  He did well, I thought he needed to play better competition, so when he was 12 we found a local travel team, made up of kids from mostly the south/west side of the Pittsburgh metro area.  The thought was better competition, but college exposure never even crossed our mind.   He played there until he was 14, and I (father) started to realize that he may have some potential to play at next level and started to educate myself on the baseball recruiting process a little,   I had 0 baseball knowledge, but our local baseball school was good resource.  I began to become aware of the showcase circuit, and on the advice of a parent of a parent that had been through this already, signed my son up for a local college winter showcase just for experience- this was the winter of 9th grade.  That was a good experience, introduced him to the "pro workout" sort of showcase, and it was something to do in January in Pittsburgh, but to my knowledge no one even noticed him there.  There were probably 10 schools there, and 200 kids.    

He played freshman ball for our HS that spring, and made one of the Pittsburgh area, higher level travel teams that summer.  This team, the "Steel City Wildcats" has been around for a long time, but they only do 2-3 tournaments a year, and they play in a local Pittsburgh area league made up of similar teams of kids that have aspirations to play in college.  They do not, typically, go south any further than a tournament in NC, and some years they don't do that.   They don't go to any Perfect Game tournaments.   The coaches philosophy is that most of our kids are going  to play within 4 hours of home, and those coaches come to see us anyway- honestly I can't really argue this, I tend to agree with him.  Although this has been a subject of some heated debate amongst the parents and the coaching staff.  

  In any case, in my sons summer before his sophomore year, he really blossomed, did very well in local games in front of some Big 10, ACC, and mid major schools.  He received an invite to a pro workout here in Pittsburgh-  didn't know what to expect there, but this one workout seemed to really launch interest in him.  There were scouts there from 6 or 8 major league teams, and probably 12-15 D1 colleges.    It was at no cost to us, but you had to be invited.   I think one of the best pieces of advice I received was that there are a TON of paid showcases out there, you could go to one every weekend, and I'm sure some are great.  But ALWAYS go to the invite only, no cost workouts.  They are usually legit.     The other key  His travel coach went above and beyond the call of duty on his behalf, and that fall he started talking to a number of schools, and that winter we started going on some unofficial visits.    His sophomore year he made the HS varsity team, did well, but almost no colleges came to games.  One local D1 came to 2 or 3 games but that was it.   

Summer of last year (before his junior year) was very active.  By that time he (and I)  had in his mind what type of school he wanted, what level, and where he wanted to play (SOUTH of here!).    He went to 3 more pro workouts last summer- again these were key- lots of exposure.  and played for the same Wildcats team.  We received calls from a couple of the bigger national teams, and he had an opportunity to play at the big perfect game tournament last summer, but  but since it conflicted with his Wildcats schedule he passed it up- it was a hard decision, but he felt a sense of loyalty to his current team and he made what I considered the "right" decision by sticking with his coach and team.    His first "offer" came about June 15 of last summer, and others followed quickly.    He made his final decision on Labor day weekend after attending a camp at a school at the top of his list.  I THINK it's the right place for him, and he really feels comfortable with the decision.  I HOPE it turns out that way! 

Anyway, there are many different paths, no perfect formula.  My son never attended a Perfect Game showcase or tournament, although it seems like most do, and the organization has a great reputation.    This wasn't really a conscious decision, in fact we were signed up for one and still have credit- maybe he will attend one yet, as I've paid the fee but never used it. 

Anyway- I rambled on for a long post, and if it helps anyone that's great.  If any of the parents of the younger guys wants to reach out and talk or PM, I'd be glad to share our experience or just be a sounding board.  Lord knows others on this board did that and continue to do that for us.  .  The whole process can be stressful and full of worry. Glad this board is available!  I mention it to others all the time. 

 

PABASEBALLDAD,

Appreciate your story.  What position does your son play?  How big is he?  What sort of measurables?  Helps with perspective...

thanks for sharing..

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Instead of worry about who is committing early, I would be more concerned with finding the right school the right coach and the right environment . Also I would want to find a team I could get some playing time... it's one thing to commit and another to sign, then make the travel team, then get in the game, then become a starter... and keeping your grades up and not breaking an NCAA rule that you did not even know about.  Playing at a top 20 school is very very difficult thing to do. 

There are going to be very high high's and very low low's not every player is ready for it.  I will say that 2018 committed early because of the school, the coach, the offer and a few other variables....

To be clear, it isn't that I (and I assume the other parents of 8th/9th graders on the board) are worried about WHO is committing early.  It is more a concern that we aren't putting our kid out there in the right places to be seen.

I inadvertently "hid" my player on a sub standard team in a sub standard park because I didn't know any better for 9u-11u.  I wasn't thinking about the future I was thinking about a little boy having fun playing baseball, and to be clear I would do it again if I had a do-over.  At 12u I took him for his first pitching lesson at an academy type place that several people said had really good instruction.  I didn't take him because I was trying to make him the next MLB super star, I took him because he was hurting his arm while pitching.  While there, the coach of one of the best 12u teams in GA saw my son pitching, he came over to talk to me.  He asked a few questions while he watched my son pitch.  He said "Why have I never heard of this kid, where the heck have you been hiding him?" I told him where my boy had been playing and he said "Yup, that would do it."

THAT is the concern of the 2021/2020/2019 parents on this board.  It isn't that we are worried about 2019's and 2020's committing, and it isn't that we want the ego trip, we are worried that we aren't taking our kids to the right places to be seen when obviously others are in their age group.  Not that we all think our kids are the top 1%, but we worry that we are messing something up for our kids because we are ignorant.  I've since learned that there is time, what a kid does below 14u doesn't matter...but others will flock to this board out of concern that they are messing things up for their kid by not doing XXXXX.

At 11,12,13 even 14 until the player reaches HS it doesn't really matter.  The player, as with most, has a lot of maturing and growing up to do in 3-4 years.  I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble. That is the way he perceives the situation, but I am sure that he is also learning a lot about what coaches want and what the don't want. Don't let what he says scare you. Or about a 2020 player working his butt off in the gym,  don't let that bother you also. That doesn't get you a spot on a roster and for most, not a spot on a top 50 either. As badcor has said, most of you DO NOT have a clue about playing for top tier college programs, or even for most d1 programs as well.

But it just seems to me and others that many of you are so afraid that your players will miss out on something, and they won't.  If people are smart than they will come here, read all the material ask intelligent questions gather information and learn about the process. That's why this board is in place, and it has helped hundreds if not more to find a place to play that fits their player.

Again, listen to bacdor. He came here with a chip on his shoulder, really drove himself nuts at times but over time he has really learned a lot, and he gets it.  Stop questioning every thing said here, read and take what you feel is good info for YOUR player.

I think you might want to consider whether your experience concerning D1 recruiting may be outdated. Early commitments in baseball (soph or younger) is quite a new phenomenon, at least the quantity is. Keep in mind, too, that I am talking mainly about top tier D1 schools. For a sunbelt school, or a WAC school, the timeline is probably about the same. Additionally, it is not just the very, very, cream of the crop. I can list for you, a dozen or more RHPs throwing under 84 that have committed to D1 schools as 2018s or 19s. I've personally had several D1 schools tell me straight up they are done with the 2016 class (and was told this early last summer). Now that doesn't mean they won't find $$ for the late bloomer or the absolute stud who has waited. However, they are going to be quite picky by then. This simply wasn't how it was done even five or six years ago. Your experiences were quite relevant up until then. Things in this area have changed quickly and drastically. I think in the next couple of years things will change even more. If you see the change next year dropping the 25% minimum rule (which seems to be a foregone conclusion) you may see a slowing down of early offers during the transition (temporary, though). Eventually, I don't see, with so many early offers, how baseball doesn't become more like basketball and football. I think, very soon, commitments won't be honored as often by athletes, nor revered as much by opposition coaches. I think it does a disservice to tell a kid who may be an upper tier D1 recruit that he's OK waiting until the summer after his junior year to get serious about recruiting.

CaCO3Girl posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Instead of worry about who is committing early, I would be more concerned with finding the right school the right coach and the right environment . Also I would want to find a team I could get some playing time... it's one thing to commit and another to sign, then make the travel team, then get in the game, then become a starter... and keeping your grades up and not breaking an NCAA rule that you did not even know about.  Playing at a top 20 school is very very difficult thing to do. 

There are going to be very high high's and very low low's not every player is ready for it.  I will say that 2018 committed early because of the school, the coach, the offer and a few other variables....

To be clear, it isn't that I (and I assume the other parents of 8th/9th graders on the board) are worried about WHO is committing early.  It is more a concern that we aren't putting our kid out there in the right places to be seen.

I inadvertently "hid" my player on a sub standard team in a sub standard park because I didn't know any better for 9u-11u.  I wasn't thinking about the future I was thinking about a little boy having fun playing baseball, and to be clear I would do it again if I had a do-over.  At 12u I took him for his first pitching lesson at an academy type place that several people said had really good instruction.  I didn't take him because I was trying to make him the next MLB super star, I took him because he was hurting his arm while pitching.  While there, the coach of one of the best 12u teams in GA saw my son pitching, he came over to talk to me.  He asked a few questions while he watched my son pitch.  He said "Why have I never heard of this kid, where the heck have you been hiding him?" I told him where my boy had been playing and he said "Yup, that would do it."

THAT is the concern of the 2021/2020/2019 parents on this board.  It isn't that we are worried about 2019's and 2020's committing, and it isn't that we want the ego trip, we are worried that we aren't taking our kids to the right places to be seen when obviously others are in their age group.  Not that we all think our kids are the top 1%, but we worry that we are messing something up for our kids because we are ignorant.  I've since learned that there is time, what a kid does below 14u doesn't matter...but others will flock to this board out of concern that they are messing things up for their kid by not doing XXXXX.

I started my own team at 13u. No one knew who the new team was until they played us. I recruited thirteen of the best LLers I could from our district. I looked for players I thought had a future. I wasn't looking for early bloomer studs who would flame out. The kids played 16u as fifteen year olds. Some were 14u eligible. The academies with showcase teams learned who these players were. They made the contact. The kids didn't have to chase teams. If your kid can play as long as he's in the right competitive pool he will be found. Parents who end up chasing showcase teams for their sons should stop and think what it means.

Roothog, you have a point.  I used to think that only super-studs committed early.  But in our area, there are two 2018 position players who committed to top 50 D1 programs recently. Neither have yet played a varsity HS baseball game. I guess they must have done very, very well in PG events, etc, cause people who have seen them play JV don't seem to be particularly impressed.

Gov posted:

PABASEBALLDAD,

Appreciate your story.  What position does your son play?  How big is he?  What sort of measurables?  Helps with perspective...

thanks for sharing..

I enjoyed the PG events we attended. But it's not the only avenue. Most players will play ball within a few hours of home. They don't need to travel to GA and FL to be discovered. Make a business plan. Research how to get in front of target schools. It may cost a lot less than you think. My son attended two day trip events that had almost every D1 team represented east of the Mississippi. The catch was the player had to be recommended to the event. But the recommendation tells the player he's a legit D1 prospect.

FWIW,  I will try and explain how 2018 recruiting happened.  he played for a local travel team in Nashville. it was a pretty good team they went to a  PG event in the summer. 2018 did very well at this event and was noticed by a national travel team and started playing with them. 

This past fall he was playing up a year in Ft. Myers and again did well throwing 88.  Then he went to Jupiter and ended up pitching in the final game against the older sister team and again did very well hitting 90.   Many top 20 schools immediately started calling as did agents and scouts. He had to go on visits and decide ... if not the schools would have moved on.  I agree with other posters that for top 20 schools their recruiting is fast, they identify and they go after it.  I would say a few schools are done with the 2018 class at this point, but they will always take the stud.   And all the showcases are not going to change the fact that you either have what they want or you do not.   It's a business not personal keep in mind as TPM says, half of the commits to these top 20 programs are going to take the draft money.

Anyway 2018 had not gone to any PG events prior to this summer. Maybe a Super 25 locally but not Ft. Myers and Jupiter. He has never taken any pitching lessons and won't .......

The advice on the board has been the same and will continue to be the same... get on the best travel team you can, practice and play as hard as you can... get a honest eval.... attend a PG showcase and a couple of tournaments. Network with coaches and other players and parents.... be real about your sons abilities, HS stats mean nothing... grades mean more than you will ever know, DO NOT SHOWCASE until you are 100% ready to show your skills. Do not worry about what other kids are doing as far as committing, they might be grads of the school, paying the entire bill, local kids to fill out the roster... who knows.

The only thing that changes is a new group of parents that have to be guided through the process.   I was one.. I get it believe me.  I mean for heavens sake I have a D1 pitcher , a Juco pitcher , a D3 pitcher and 2018 .... I have learned the landscape. 

Just be honest, if a college coach says hey your sons is pretty good... that does not translate into  a 100% offer, most of the time they are being nice.  You will know without a doubt when they are interested, there will be no mistaking it.

I understand the need to want to know what to do and when to do... but just attending the right events is not going to get you a deal at BIG U.... you have to possess the skills.

 

 

JCG posted:

Roothog, you have a point.  I used to think that only super-studs committed early.  But in our area, there are two 2018 position players who committed to top 50 D1 programs recently. Neither have yet played a varsity HS baseball game. I guess they must have done very, very well in PG events, etc, cause people who have seen them play JV don't seem to be particularly impressed.

Is there an athletic history in their family to use as a trend?

Dunno.  One kid looks the part. I don't think I've ever seen the other kid.  But I'll look forward to seeing both play in a few weeks.

RJM posted:

 The kids didn't have to chase teams. If your kid can play as long as he's in the right competitive pool he will be found. Parents who end up chasing showcase teams for their sons should stop and think what it means.

That right there is the vital point. We naive people don't know what the real pools are.   My kid wasn't in the "right competitive pool", my kid wasn't on the same continent as those pools, hence the coach saying "Why have I never heard of this kid?"

The flip side of that are the over board parents who see which team won the 17u Blah Blah National Tournament and they decide that their kid MUST get on the 9u version of that team.  They may have the same name, but those two teams don't actually have anything to do with one another....and that's what MANY people don't understand.

There's a lot of "if I knew then what I know now" in recruiting. The second kid benefits. With my daughter it was like being blindfolded with a walking cane. Fortunately a friend was on his third turn with recruiting with his daughter..

Softball and baseball recruiting is the same except girls are recruited earlier due to earlier physical development. It's very common for top softball pitchers to be playing 18u in 8th grade and committing after the season.

"...The kids didn't have to chase teams. If your kid can playas long as he's in the right competitive pool  he will be found. Parents who end up chasing showcase teams for their sons should stop and think what it means."

This, in our experience, is the key to gaining notice for a player. Next level coaches and scouts measure a player by his ability to perform against truly strong competition and those players who succeed in that kind of venue will attract attention. NTGson played extremely well against a national program in a large tournament and drew an invitation to join it. Subsequently he played well enough for them in events at which there were significant numbers of college coaches in the stands, not there to see him but to see the competition. Our boy was rewarded with not only interest but offers. The few showcases he attended were at the behest of specific coaches who wanted to see him again under more controlled circumstances.

Can anyone comment about the early commits having any academic or testing stipulations? Thank you for your reply Rynoattack.  How often does the offer get rescinded if the player does not get acceptable grades or a minimum SAT or ACT score?

I would assume that it's all contingent on being able to pass admissions. There are probably no numbers on that, though. I did, for example, see a 2018 committed to a big, very academic private D1, who was reporting a 2.8 gpa on his PG profile page. I would assume he'll need to improve those grades drastically.

CaCO3Girl posted:

RJM posted:

 The kids didn't have to chase teams. If your kid can play as long as he's in the right competitive pool he will be found. Parents who end up chasing showcase teams for their sons should stop and think what it means.

That right there is the vital point. We naive people don't know what the real pools are.   My kid wasn't in the "right competitive pool", my kid wasn't on the same continent as those pools, hence the coach saying "Why have I never heard of this kid?"

The flip side of that are the over board parents who see which team won the 17u Blah Blah National Tournament and they decide that their kid MUST get on the 9u version of that team.  They may have the same name, but those two teams don't actually have anything to do with one another....and that's what MANY people don't understand.

You are very correct....

Louise posted:

Can anyone comment about the early commits having any academic or testing stipulations? Thank you for your reply Rynoattack.  How often does the offer get rescinded if the player does not get acceptable grades or a minimum SAT or ACT score?

you would be surprised what takes place.... sure there are minimum scores.... the higher the velo the lower the score needed.  Miss St  you need an 18 ACT   ....who cannot get that?

 

Gov posted:

PABASEBALLDAD,

Appreciate your story.  What position does your son play?  How big is he?  What sort of measurables?  Helps with perspective...

thanks for sharing..

Son is a 2017 outfielder, R/R,  6'1, 185   60 time is a consistent 6.7 (has run faster and slower), plus arm and good bat.   

Committed to Coastal Carolina.  

bacdorslider posted:

 The advice on the board has been the same and will continue to be the same... get on the best travel team you can, practice and play as hard as you can... get a honest eval.... attend a PG showcase and a couple of tournaments. Network with coaches and other players and parents.... be real about your sons abilities, HS stats mean nothing... grades mean more than you will ever know, DO NOT SHOWCASE until you are 100% ready to show your skills. Do not worry about what other kids are doing as far as committing, they might be grads of the school, paying the entire bill, local kids to fill out the roster... who knows. 

Louise posted:

Can anyone comment about the early commits having any academic or testing stipulations? Thank you for your reply Rynoattack.  How often does the offer get rescinded if the player does not get acceptable grades or a minimum SAT or ACT score?

We had one high academic school in the ACC come right out and give us contingent parameters on grades, test scores, and types of classes expected.   My son, while a solid student, would not have qualified at this school.  I appreciated this approach, and it helped us to define what it was he was looking for and where he fit. 

Louise posted:

Can anyone comment about the early commits having any academic or testing stipulations? Thank you for your reply Rynoattack.  How often does the offer get rescinded if the player does not get acceptable grades or a minimum SAT or ACT score?

There was an early offer by Notre Dame (player was rising HS Soph).  Offer was contingent on a 24 ACT.  Player wasn't able to achieve that score.

Player "bowed out" of the ND offer and was quickly offered by a top PAC 12 baseball program.  

Gov posted:

Louise posted:

Can anyone comment about the early commits having any academic or testing stipulations? Thank you for your reply Rynoattack.  How often does the offer get rescinded if the player does not get acceptable grades or a minimum SAT or ACT score?

There was an early offer by Notre Dame (player was rising HS Soph).  Offer was contingent on a 24 ACT.  Player wasn't able to achieve that score.

Player "bowed out" of the ND offer and was quickly offered by a top PAC 12 baseball program.  

This was our experience.  You should expect X with this score. Played out exactly as they stated. 

I will add some to what others have stated with a little twist.  You have to know your kid but with the right mix of talent and off the charts competitiveness a big name team at a big name tournament CAN get your son to places never thought possible. 

No way my sub six foot and sub 88 mph RHP ends up where he did without performing on the big stage at big events.  If he does what he did for someone else his story turns out very different. Of that I have no doubt. 

"Miss St  you need an 18 ACT   ....who cannot get that?"

You would be surprised or maybe not!!!

ps: Don't throw Miss State under the bus. Hail State!!! 

All offers are contingent on getting accepted. I know a kid who received an early offer to a top program he couldn't be janitor without baseball. He finally got the NCAA eligible SAT score in the last eligible try in the summer after senior year. He started freshman year. But he flunked out.

Lot of great advice here,   I thought I knew the timeline and then when I was seeing all this activity it made me wonder if we weren't seeing huge changes from what was the norm just 3 years ago.    Asked my son's coach who played professionally and his pitching coach who works with a who's who of pro's and top draft picks and they are both just shaking their heads and think its craziness, but said yeah its going that way.  

Like some others said i was just worried I should be pushing him to one of the more well known travel teams,   he played on a big travel team last year,  that gets lot of national exposure, but he didn't like the other kids at all.   There was a lot of resentment towards him, they had an established team with very little turnover and  he strolled in unknown and all of a sudden he was batting 3rd in the lineup and pitching all the important games.  He excelled,  threw several complete game shutouts, a no hitter,  had no problems hitting against all the top players we faced in the city, but the other kids were not welcoming at all,  and he wasn't having fun and told me he wanted to quit and play on another team so we did.   Turned out for the best, the other team we moved to was excited to have him,  they had faced him a few times and he dominated, completely shut them down, so the kids were already respectful of his abilities and they were very welcoming,  he has become fast friends with them,  i think half the team spent the entire summer at my house for days on end and he loves playing with them even though he knows he is kind of the big fish in the small pond.   We are competitive, but this team has been together for several years and would never dream of having tryouts and replacing the weaker kids so we are not deep enough in the really big events.   Best thing is I don't have to pay anything and we play lots of events, have pro coaches and practice at a top notch facility.     The team goal is to get the kids ready to play in high school.  He works on hitting a lot after practice with the head coach and that part of his game has improved tremendously.  

   btw the fall out with the previous team was ugly,  the coaches were extremely upset,  called and yelled and berated me several times but I stood my ground that my son wasnt happy with their team,  he loved the coaching and felt like he was getting better in that regard but he said the kids were just horrible.   Turns out that they tried several replacement players and none of them stayed very long and all had the same complaints that the other kids were bullies and no fun to be around,  then  they turned on themselves,  with my son they won the first 4 tournaments they played,  after he left they imploded and rarely made it out of the first round or ended up in the losers bracket so the team did kind of implode.   I had a few parents call and apologize,  said they suspected there was some dysfunction, but no one had ever really stood up to them and called them out.  

 He's just a 7th grader so I kind of still think having fun is important.   Eventually I know he's going to have to put him self in a more uncomfortable position and push himself.  I just wasnt sure how soon that would be.  

 

RedFishFool posted:

"Miss St  you need an 18 ACT   ....who cannot get that?"

You would be surprised or maybe not!!!

ps: Don't throw Miss State under the bus. Hail State!!! 

I'm not throwing Miss St under the bus.... but  I think if you cannot get an 18 ACT  then go juco.

BDS, I'm just picking on you. No offense taken on my part!  RFF

"He's just a 7th grader ..."

At that age I didn't give college ball a thought for my son. This is even though I played and my daughter had already verballed for softball. When my son brought up college ball I suggested he make the high school team first. 

When I started a 13u team the focus was to take talented players and turn them into successful 60/90 players who would some day play high school ball. Dreams are nice. But you walk before you run.

gunner34 posted:

Lot of great advice here,   I thought I knew the timeline and then when I was seeing all this activity it made me wonder if we weren't seeing huge changes from what was the norm just 3 years ago.    Asked my son's coach who played professionally and his pitching coach who works with a who's who of pro's and top draft picks and they are both just shaking their heads and think its craziness, but said yeah its going that way.  

Like some others said i was just worried I should be pushing him to one of the more well known travel teams,   he played on a big travel team last year,  that gets lot of national exposure, but he didn't like the other kids at all.   There was a lot of resentment towards him, they had an established team with very little turnover and  he strolled in unknown and all of a sudden he was batting 3rd in the lineup and pitching all the important games.  He excelled,  threw several complete game shutouts, a no hitter,  had no problems hitting against all the top players we faced in the city, but the other kids were not welcoming at all,  and he wasn't having fun and told me he wanted to quit and play on another team so we did.   Turned out for the best, the other team we moved to was excited to have him,  they had faced him a few times and he dominated, completely shut them down, so the kids were already respectful of his abilities and they were very welcoming,  he has become fast friends with them,  i think half the team spent the entire summer at my house for days on end and he loves playing with them even though he knows he is kind of the big fish in the small pond.   We are competitive, but this team has been together for several years and would never dream of having tryouts and replacing the weaker kids so we are not deep enough in the really big events.   Best thing is I don't have to pay anything and we play lots of events, have pro coaches and practice at a top notch facility.     The team goal is to get the kids ready to play in high school.  He works on hitting a lot after practice with the head coach and that part of his game has improved tremendously.  

   btw the fall out with the previous team was ugly,  the coaches were extremely upset,  called and yelled and berated me several times but I stood my ground that my son wasnt happy with their team,  he loved the coaching and felt like he was getting better in that regard but he said the kids were just horrible.   Turns out that they tried several replacement players and none of them stayed very long and all had the same complaints that the other kids were bullies and no fun to be around,  then  they turned on themselves,  with my son they won the first 4 tournaments they played,  after he left they imploded and rarely made it out of the first round or ended up in the losers bracket so the team did kind of implode.   I had a few parents call and apologize,  said they suspected there was some dysfunction, but no one had ever really stood up to them and called them out.  

 He's just a 7th grader so I kind of still think having fun is important.   Eventually I know he's going to have to put him self in a more uncomfortable position and push himself.  I just wasnt sure how soon that would be.  

 

absolutely- he needs to keep having fun!   good decision.

 

RJM posted:

JCG posted:

Roothog, you have a point.  I used to think that only super-studs committed early.  But in our area, there are two 2018 position players who committed to top 50 D1 programs recently. Neither have yet played a varsity HS baseball game. I guess they must have done very, very well in PG events, etc, cause people who have seen them play JV don't seem to be particularly impressed.

Is there an athletic history in their family to use as a trend?

Are the parents or grandparents alumni?

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Instead of worry about who is committing early, I would be more concerned with finding the right school the right coach and the right environment . Also I would want to find a team I could get some playing time... it's one thing to commit and another to sign, then make the travel team, then get in the game, then become a starter... and keeping your grades up and not breaking an NCAA rule that you did not even know about.  Playing at a top 20 school is very very difficult thing to do. 

There are going to be very high high's and very low low's not every player is ready for it.  I will say that 2018 committed early because of the school, the coach, the offer and a few other variables....

To be clear, it isn't that I (and I assume the other parents of 8th/9th graders on the board) are worried about WHO is committing early.  It is more a concern that we aren't putting our kid out there in the right places to be seen.

I inadvertently "hid" my player on a sub standard team in a sub standard park because I didn't know any better for 9u-11u.  I wasn't thinking about the future I was thinking about a little boy having fun playing baseball, and to be clear I would do it again if I had a do-over.  At 12u I took him for his first pitching lesson at an academy type place that several people said had really good instruction.  I didn't take him because I was trying to make him the next MLB super star, I took him because he was hurting his arm while pitching.  While there, the coach of one of the best 12u teams in GA saw my son pitching, he came over to talk to me.  He asked a few questions while he watched my son pitch.  He said "Why have I never heard of this kid, where the heck have you been hiding him?" I told him where my boy had been playing and he said "Yup, that would do it."

THAT is the concern of the 2021/2020/2019 parents on this board.  It isn't that we are worried about 2019's and 2020's committing, and it isn't that we want the ego trip, we are worried that we aren't taking our kids to the right places to be seen when obviously others are in their age group.  Not that we all think our kids are the top 1%, but we worry that we are messing something up for our kids because we are ignorant.  I've since learned that there is time, what a kid does below 14u doesn't matter...but others will flock to this board out of concern that they are messing things up for their kid by not doing XXXXX.

At 11,12,13 even 14 until the player reaches HS it doesn't really matter.  The player, as with most, has a lot of maturing and growing up to do in 3-4 years.  I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble. That is the way he perceives the situation, but I am sure that he is also learning a lot about what coaches want and what the don't want. Don't let what he says scare you. Or about a 2020 player working his butt off in the gym,  don't let that bother you also. That doesn't get you a spot on a roster and for most, not a spot on a top 50 either. As badcor has said, most of you DO NOT have a clue about playing for top tier college programs, or even for most d1 programs as well.

But it just seems to me and others that many of you are so afraid that your players will miss out on something, and they won't.  If people are smart than they will come here, read all the material ask intelligent questions gather information and learn about the process. That's why this board is in place, and it has helped hundreds if not more to find a place to play that fits their player.

Again, listen to bacdor. He came here with a chip on his shoulder, really drove himself nuts at times but over time he has really learned a lot, and he gets it.  Stop questioning every thing said here, read and take what you feel is good info for YOUR player.

I think you might want to consider whether your experience concerning D1 recruiting may be outdated. Early commitments in baseball (soph or younger) is quite a new phenomenon, at least the quantity is. Keep in mind, too, that I am talking mainly about top tier D1 schools. For a sunbelt school, or a WAC school, the timeline is probably about the same. Additionally, it is not just the very, very, cream of the crop. I can list for you, a dozen or more RHPs throwing under 84 that have committed to D1 schools as 2018s or 19s. I've personally had several D1 schools tell me straight up they are done with the 2016 class (and was told this early last summer). Now that doesn't mean they won't find $$ for the late bloomer or the absolute stud who has waited. However, they are going to be quite picky by then. This simply wasn't how it was done even five or six years ago. Your experiences were quite relevant up until then. Things in this area have changed quickly and drastically. I think in the next couple of years things will change even more. If you see the change next year dropping the 25% minimum rule (which seems to be a foregone conclusion) you may see a slowing down of early offers during the transition (temporary, though). Eventually, I don't see, with so many early offers, how baseball doesn't become more like basketball and football. I think, very soon, commitments won't be honored as often by athletes, nor revered as much by opposition coaches. I think it does a disservice to tell a kid who may be an upper tier D1 recruit that he's OK waiting until the summer after his junior year to get serious about recruiting.

Where did I say that an upper tier player should wait that long, and why do you assume that I don't understand recruiting, because I don't have a son who is in HS?  How many upper tier guys are out there, really?   What you need to do is get to a PG national tournament,  summer in Lakepoint or down in jupiter, than you will understand, or one of the bigger venues where  every college coach and scout is in attendance, not a handful.

 

The majority of players do not commit as freshman or sophomores.  Whats really changed is that more and more programs are essentially over recruiting.   Your son will show up to a program, and so will 40 other players, 6 will not make the roster in spring, and will be asked to leave.  That's how it is and its not going to get better.

So instead of rushing to commit early because everyone else is,or its last years CWS winner (just as an example) why not commit where a coach really values you as a future player. 

You are right, things are going to get worse, as long as you all keep pushing your kids in front of coaches earlier and earlier, its not going to be any easier, for the mid tier player, not for the elite, they will always get the first offer.

 

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Instead of worry about who is committing early, I would be more concerned with finding the right school the right coach and the right environment . Also I would want to find a team I could get some playing time... it's one thing to commit and another to sign, then make the travel team, then get in the game, then become a starter... and keeping your grades up and not breaking an NCAA rule that you did not even know about.  Playing at a top 20 school is very very difficult thing to do. 

There are going to be very high high's and very low low's not every player is ready for it.  I will say that 2018 committed early because of the school, the coach, the offer and a few other variables....

To be clear, it isn't that I (and I assume the other parents of 8th/9th graders on the board) are worried about WHO is committing early.  It is more a concern that we aren't putting our kid out there in the right places to be seen.

I inadvertently "hid" my player on a sub standard team in a sub standard park because I didn't know any better for 9u-11u.  I wasn't thinking about the future I was thinking about a little boy having fun playing baseball, and to be clear I would do it again if I had a do-over.  At 12u I took him for his first pitching lesson at an academy type place that several people said had really good instruction.  I didn't take him because I was trying to make him the next MLB super star, I took him because he was hurting his arm while pitching.  While there, the coach of one of the best 12u teams in GA saw my son pitching, he came over to talk to me.  He asked a few questions while he watched my son pitch.  He said "Why have I never heard of this kid, where the heck have you been hiding him?" I told him where my boy had been playing and he said "Yup, that would do it."

THAT is the concern of the 2021/2020/2019 parents on this board.  It isn't that we are worried about 2019's and 2020's committing, and it isn't that we want the ego trip, we are worried that we aren't taking our kids to the right places to be seen when obviously others are in their age group.  Not that we all think our kids are the top 1%, but we worry that we are messing something up for our kids because we are ignorant.  I've since learned that there is time, what a kid does below 14u doesn't matter...but others will flock to this board out of concern that they are messing things up for their kid by not doing XXXXX.

At 11,12,13 even 14 until the player reaches HS it doesn't really matter.  The player, as with most, has a lot of maturing and growing up to do in 3-4 years.  I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble. That is the way he perceives the situation, but I am sure that he is also learning a lot about what coaches want and what the don't want. Don't let what he says scare you. Or about a 2020 player working his butt off in the gym,  don't let that bother you also. That doesn't get you a spot on a roster and for most, not a spot on a top 50 either. As badcor has said, most of you DO NOT have a clue about playing for top tier college programs, or even for most d1 programs as well.

But it just seems to me and others that many of you are so afraid that your players will miss out on something, and they won't.  If people are smart than they will come here, read all the material ask intelligent questions gather information and learn about the process. That's why this board is in place, and it has helped hundreds if not more to find a place to play that fits their player.

Again, listen to bacdor. He came here with a chip on his shoulder, really drove himself nuts at times but over time he has really learned a lot, and he gets it.  Stop questioning every thing said here, read and take what you feel is good info for YOUR player.

I think you might want to consider whether your experience concerning D1 recruiting may be outdated. Early commitments in baseball (soph or younger) is quite a new phenomenon, at least the quantity is. Keep in mind, too, that I am talking mainly about top tier D1 schools. For a sunbelt school, or a WAC school, the timeline is probably about the same. Additionally, it is not just the very, very, cream of the crop. I can list for you, a dozen or more RHPs throwing under 84 that have committed to D1 schools as 2018s or 19s. I've personally had several D1 schools tell me straight up they are done with the 2016 class (and was told this early last summer). Now that doesn't mean they won't find $$ for the late bloomer or the absolute stud who has waited. However, they are going to be quite picky by then. This simply wasn't how it was done even five or six years ago. Your experiences were quite relevant up until then. Things in this area have changed quickly and drastically. I think in the next couple of years things will change even more. If you see the change next year dropping the 25% minimum rule (which seems to be a foregone conclusion) you may see a slowing down of early offers during the transition (temporary, though). Eventually, I don't see, with so many early offers, how baseball doesn't become more like basketball and football. I think, very soon, commitments won't be honored as often by athletes, nor revered as much by opposition coaches. I think it does a disservice to tell a kid who may be an upper tier D1 recruit that he's OK waiting until the summer after his junior year to get serious about recruiting.

Where did I say that an upper tier player should wait that long, and why do you assume that I don't understand recruiting, because I don't have a son who is in HS?  How many upper tier guys are out there, really?   What you need to do is get to a PG national tournament,  summer in Lakepoint or down in jupiter, than you will understand, or one of the bigger venues where  every college coach and scout is in attendance, not a handful.

 

The majority of players do not commit as freshman or sophomores.  Whats really changed is that more and more programs are essentially over recruiting.   Your son will show up to a program, and so will 40 other players, 6 will not make the roster in spring, and will be asked to leave.  That's how it is and its not going to get better.

So instead of rushing to commit early because everyone else is,or its last years CWS winner (just as an example) why not commit where a coach really values you as a future player. 

You are right, things are going to get worse, as long as you all keep pushing your kids in front of coaches earlier and earlier, its not going to be any easier, for the mid tier player, not for the elite, they will always get the first offer.

 

What you said, and I quote, was " I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble." My post was clearly concerning upper tier D1's. I've said this before, you have a lot to offer, but this is one of the areas where your experience is dated. My point wasn't even about top tier recruits, necessarily,  but rather about how quickly top tier D1's fill up their recruiting classes. I believe you mislead people when you say what I quoted above. Please take into account what people who are currently going through recruiting involving upper tier D1's - there aren't a lot of spots left for a rising senior or even a junior who has already begun his junior year. The kids who are good enough to make an upper tier D1 roster, but not necessarily a draft pick type will have a problem if they wait until their junior season is underway. By then, these schools will have filled up their recruiting classes with players just as good who got out there earlier and got noticed. That leaves a lot of good, but not draft pick, talent competing for a very limited number of spots.

You may not like it, but it is what it is and it's not going to change as long as schools have incentive to make those offers. I appreciate your experiences, but you need to take a breath and consider the experiences of others, as well. Many of us are going through it right now. It's happening around us and we are just plain in a better situation to analyze the landscape.

When posting to this thread, please indicate which percentile your player resides.  You may chose 99%, 97%, 90%, 75% and 50%.  If you are a 99%, then by all means you need to accelerate your timeline so you can lock down your commitment while you wait for the draft.  If you are in the 97%, then you too may actually need to speed things up, a bit, if you wish to secure a Top 50 program spot.  If you choose 90%, then the old timeline is probably not too far off, but maybe move it up 3-4 months.  75% and 50% and the old timeline still fits like a glove.

I would love to see some hard data on how the timeline has changed over the past 10 years, maybe for the entire D1 population and then maybe for the Top 50 and Top 10 (assume 2015 rankings).  I'll bet the Top 10 has much earlier commitments (probably by a full 12 months or more) whereas the Top 50 is around half that and the remaining have not moved significantly.  Hard part seems to be getting to an exact commitment date - that is one piece of data that I have not stumbled across to-date (bet PG has the commitment date entered stored away somewhere handy).

Some exhausting dialogue above. Perspective: Duke coach stated 2017 recruiting class will be complete by April. There are quite a few programs more aggressive than Duke, so...

2017LHPscrewball posted:

When posting to this thread, please indicate which percentile your player resides.  You may chose 99%, 97%, 90%, 75% and 50%.  If you are a 99%, then by all means you need to accelerate your timeline so you can lock down your commitment while you wait for the draft.  If you are in the 97%, then you too may actually need to speed things up, a bit, if you wish to secure a Top 50 program spot.  If you choose 90%, then the old timeline is probably not too far off, but maybe move it up 3-4 months.  75% and 50% and the old timeline still fits like a glove.

I would love to see some hard data on how the timeline has changed over the past 10 years, maybe for the entire D1 population and then maybe for the Top 50 and Top 10 (assume 2015 rankings).  I'll bet the Top 10 has much earlier commitments (probably by a full 12 months or more) whereas the Top 50 is around half that and the remaining have not moved significantly.  Hard part seems to be getting to an exact commitment date - that is one piece of data that I have not stumbled across to-date (bet PG has the commitment date entered stored away somewhere handy).

With all due respect, the "hard" part in my opinion is trying to figure out if your 7th/8th/9th grader will project at an elite percentage in 5/4/3 years.

I don't care what an 8th grader is doing he doesn't have D1 skills at the moment.  Yet 8th graders ARE getting offers.  So, us naive parents ask questions because we know our kids are good for pre high school, but what qualifies these kids getting offers (assuming it's based on skill and not alumni) before they set foot on a high school field? That's the hard part.  Is my 8th grader throwing 90+, no. Does he have a 1.8 pop time, nope. Can he hit a 95mph fast ball, doubt it, he's never seen one.  So what qualifies these pre high school kids for offers?

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Instead of worry about who is committing early, I would be more concerned with finding the right school the right coach and the right environment . Also I would want to find a team I could get some playing time... it's one thing to commit and another to sign, then make the travel team, then get in the game, then become a starter... and keeping your grades up and not breaking an NCAA rule that you did not even know about.  Playing at a top 20 school is very very difficult thing to do. 

There are going to be very high high's and very low low's not every player is ready for it.  I will say that 2018 committed early because of the school, the coach, the offer and a few other variables....

To be clear, it isn't that I (and I assume the other parents of 8th/9th graders on the board) are worried about WHO is committing early.  It is more a concern that we aren't putting our kid out there in the right places to be seen.

I inadvertently "hid" my player on a sub standard team in a sub standard park because I didn't know any better for 9u-11u.  I wasn't thinking about the future I was thinking about a little boy having fun playing baseball, and to be clear I would do it again if I had a do-over.  At 12u I took him for his first pitching lesson at an academy type place that several people said had really good instruction.  I didn't take him because I was trying to make him the next MLB super star, I took him because he was hurting his arm while pitching.  While there, the coach of one of the best 12u teams in GA saw my son pitching, he came over to talk to me.  He asked a few questions while he watched my son pitch.  He said "Why have I never heard of this kid, where the heck have you been hiding him?" I told him where my boy had been playing and he said "Yup, that would do it."

THAT is the concern of the 2021/2020/2019 parents on this board.  It isn't that we are worried about 2019's and 2020's committing, and it isn't that we want the ego trip, we are worried that we aren't taking our kids to the right places to be seen when obviously others are in their age group.  Not that we all think our kids are the top 1%, but we worry that we are messing something up for our kids because we are ignorant.  I've since learned that there is time, what a kid does below 14u doesn't matter...but others will flock to this board out of concern that they are messing things up for their kid by not doing XXXXX.

At 11,12,13 even 14 until the player reaches HS it doesn't really matter.  The player, as with most, has a lot of maturing and growing up to do in 3-4 years.  I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble. That is the way he perceives the situation, but I am sure that he is also learning a lot about what coaches want and what the don't want. Don't let what he says scare you. Or about a 2020 player working his butt off in the gym,  don't let that bother you also. That doesn't get you a spot on a roster and for most, not a spot on a top 50 either. As badcor has said, most of you DO NOT have a clue about playing for top tier college programs, or even for most d1 programs as well.

But it just seems to me and others that many of you are so afraid that your players will miss out on something, and they won't.  If people are smart than they will come here, read all the material ask intelligent questions gather information and learn about the process. That's why this board is in place, and it has helped hundreds if not more to find a place to play that fits their player.

Again, listen to bacdor. He came here with a chip on his shoulder, really drove himself nuts at times but over time he has really learned a lot, and he gets it.  Stop questioning every thing said here, read and take what you feel is good info for YOUR player.

I think you might want to consider whether your experience concerning D1 recruiting may be outdated. Early commitments in baseball (soph or younger) is quite a new phenomenon, at least the quantity is. Keep in mind, too, that I am talking mainly about top tier D1 schools. For a sunbelt school, or a WAC school, the timeline is probably about the same. Additionally, it is not just the very, very, cream of the crop. I can list for you, a dozen or more RHPs throwing under 84 that have committed to D1 schools as 2018s or 19s. I've personally had several D1 schools tell me straight up they are done with the 2016 class (and was told this early last summer). Now that doesn't mean they won't find $$ for the late bloomer or the absolute stud who has waited. However, they are going to be quite picky by then. This simply wasn't how it was done even five or six years ago. Your experiences were quite relevant up until then. Things in this area have changed quickly and drastically. I think in the next couple of years things will change even more. If you see the change next year dropping the 25% minimum rule (which seems to be a foregone conclusion) you may see a slowing down of early offers during the transition (temporary, though). Eventually, I don't see, with so many early offers, how baseball doesn't become more like basketball and football. I think, very soon, commitments won't be honored as often by athletes, nor revered as much by opposition coaches. I think it does a disservice to tell a kid who may be an upper tier D1 recruit that he's OK waiting until the summer after his junior year to get serious about recruiting.

Where did I say that an upper tier player should wait that long, and why do you assume that I don't understand recruiting, because I don't have a son who is in HS?  How many upper tier guys are out there, really?   What you need to do is get to a PG national tournament,  summer in Lakepoint or down in jupiter, than you will understand, or one of the bigger venues where  every college coach and scout is in attendance, not a handful.

 

The majority of players do not commit as freshman or sophomores.  Whats really changed is that more and more programs are essentially over recruiting.   Your son will show up to a program, and so will 40 other players, 6 will not make the roster in spring, and will be asked to leave.  That's how it is and its not going to get better.

So instead of rushing to commit early because everyone else is,or its last years CWS winner (just as an example) why not commit where a coach really values you as a future player. 

You are right, things are going to get worse, as long as you all keep pushing your kids in front of coaches earlier and earlier, its not going to be any easier, for the mid tier player, not for the elite, they will always get the first offer.

 

What you said, and I quote, was " I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble." My post was clearly concerning upper tier D1's. I've said this before, you have a lot to offer, but this is one of the areas where your experience is dated. My point wasn't even about top tier recruits, necessarily,  but rather about how quickly top tier D1's fill up their recruiting classes. I believe you mislead people when you say what I quoted above. Please take into account what people who are currently going through recruiting involving upper tier D1's - there aren't a lot of spots left for a rising senior or even a junior who has already begun his junior year. The kids who are good enough to make an upper tier D1 roster, but not necessarily a draft pick type will have a problem if they wait until their junior season is underway. By then, these schools will have filled up their recruiting classes with players just as good who got out there earlier and got noticed. That leaves a lot of good, but not draft pick, talent competing for a very limited number of spots.

You may not like it, but it is what it is and it's not going to change as long as schools have incentive to make those offers. I appreciate your experiences, but you need to take a breath and consider the experiences of others, as well. Many of us are going through it right now. It's happening around us and we are just plain in a better situation to analyze the landscape.

Roothog,

You are talking about top tier players committing, the majority of players and whose parents come here are not top tier players (sorry, not insulting anyone, but that is a fact).   

So by stating that if you don't committ by a certain time your in trouble, is not really right, as most of the people who are reading this will have players who will commit to D2,D3 and will more than likely walk on to D1 programs.  YOU have to think about the audience that you are reaching. Obviously you are expecting your son to be asked to play at a top tier program, along with many others but reality is that doesnt happen often for most. 

And I am talking about commits that get actually offers over and above 25%, not walk ons.  Do you actually know how much they are being offered?  

I am talking the top 250 in PG ranking per class as top tier players.

CaCO3Girl posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

When posting to this thread, please indicate which percentile your player resides.  You may chose 99%, 97%, 90%, 75% and 50%.  If you are a 99%, then by all means you need to accelerate your timeline so you can lock down your commitment while you wait for the draft.  If you are in the 97%, then you too may actually need to speed things up, a bit, if you wish to secure a Top 50 program spot.  If you choose 90%, then the old timeline is probably not too far off, but maybe move it up 3-4 months.  75% and 50% and the old timeline still fits like a glove.

I would love to see some hard data on how the timeline has changed over the past 10 years, maybe for the entire D1 population and then maybe for the Top 50 and Top 10 (assume 2015 rankings).  I'll bet the Top 10 has much earlier commitments (probably by a full 12 months or more) whereas the Top 50 is around half that and the remaining have not moved significantly.  Hard part seems to be getting to an exact commitment date - that is one piece of data that I have not stumbled across to-date (bet PG has the commitment date entered stored away somewhere handy).

 So what qualifies these pre high school kids for offers?

Are they actually being offered atheletic dollars or are they just committing?  Are their parents alumni? Grandparents?  That is paid for by a different fund at most programs.   Are they instate players from states that give academic acheivement scholarships (here in FL its Bright Futures). Do you know the specifics?

Why are you worrying about this?  It means nothing! 

Gov posted:

Some exhausting dialogue above. Perspective: Duke coach stated 2017 recruiting class will be complete by April. There are quite a few programs more aggressive than Duke, so...

Coaches NEVER stop recruiting.

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Instead of worry about who is committing early, I would be more concerned with finding the right school the right coach and the right environment . Also I would want to find a team I could get some playing time... it's one thing to commit and another to sign, then make the travel team, then get in the game, then become a starter... and keeping your grades up and not breaking an NCAA rule that you did not even know about.  Playing at a top 20 school is very very difficult thing to do. 

There are going to be very high high's and very low low's not every player is ready for it.  I will say that 2018 committed early because of the school, the coach, the offer and a few other variables....

To be clear, it isn't that I (and I assume the other parents of 8th/9th graders on the board) are worried about WHO is committing early.  It is more a concern that we aren't putting our kid out there in the right places to be seen.

I inadvertently "hid" my player on a sub standard team in a sub standard park because I didn't know any better for 9u-11u.  I wasn't thinking about the future I was thinking about a little boy having fun playing baseball, and to be clear I would do it again if I had a do-over.  At 12u I took him for his first pitching lesson at an academy type place that several people said had really good instruction.  I didn't take him because I was trying to make him the next MLB super star, I took him because he was hurting his arm while pitching.  While there, the coach of one of the best 12u teams in GA saw my son pitching, he came over to talk to me.  He asked a few questions while he watched my son pitch.  He said "Why have I never heard of this kid, where the heck have you been hiding him?" I told him where my boy had been playing and he said "Yup, that would do it."

THAT is the concern of the 2021/2020/2019 parents on this board.  It isn't that we are worried about 2019's and 2020's committing, and it isn't that we want the ego trip, we are worried that we aren't taking our kids to the right places to be seen when obviously others are in their age group.  Not that we all think our kids are the top 1%, but we worry that we are messing something up for our kids because we are ignorant.  I've since learned that there is time, what a kid does below 14u doesn't matter...but others will flock to this board out of concern that they are messing things up for their kid by not doing XXXXX.

At 11,12,13 even 14 until the player reaches HS it doesn't really matter.  The player, as with most, has a lot of maturing and growing up to do in 3-4 years.  I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble. That is the way he perceives the situation, but I am sure that he is also learning a lot about what coaches want and what the don't want. Don't let what he says scare you. Or about a 2020 player working his butt off in the gym,  don't let that bother you also. That doesn't get you a spot on a roster and for most, not a spot on a top 50 either. As badcor has said, most of you DO NOT have a clue about playing for top tier college programs, or even for most d1 programs as well.

But it just seems to me and others that many of you are so afraid that your players will miss out on something, and they won't.  If people are smart than they will come here, read all the material ask intelligent questions gather information and learn about the process. That's why this board is in place, and it has helped hundreds if not more to find a place to play that fits their player.

Again, listen to bacdor. He came here with a chip on his shoulder, really drove himself nuts at times but over time he has really learned a lot, and he gets it.  Stop questioning every thing said here, read and take what you feel is good info for YOUR player.

I think you might want to consider whether your experience concerning D1 recruiting may be outdated. Early commitments in baseball (soph or younger) is quite a new phenomenon, at least the quantity is. Keep in mind, too, that I am talking mainly about top tier D1 schools. For a sunbelt school, or a WAC school, the timeline is probably about the same. Additionally, it is not just the very, very, cream of the crop. I can list for you, a dozen or more RHPs throwing under 84 that have committed to D1 schools as 2018s or 19s. I've personally had several D1 schools tell me straight up they are done with the 2016 class (and was told this early last summer). Now that doesn't mean they won't find $$ for the late bloomer or the absolute stud who has waited. However, they are going to be quite picky by then. This simply wasn't how it was done even five or six years ago. Your experiences were quite relevant up until then. Things in this area have changed quickly and drastically. I think in the next couple of years things will change even more. If you see the change next year dropping the 25% minimum rule (which seems to be a foregone conclusion) you may see a slowing down of early offers during the transition (temporary, though). Eventually, I don't see, with so many early offers, how baseball doesn't become more like basketball and football. I think, very soon, commitments won't be honored as often by athletes, nor revered as much by opposition coaches. I think it does a disservice to tell a kid who may be an upper tier D1 recruit that he's OK waiting until the summer after his junior year to get serious about recruiting.

Where did I say that an upper tier player should wait that long, and why do you assume that I don't understand recruiting, because I don't have a son who is in HS?  How many upper tier guys are out there, really?   What you need to do is get to a PG national tournament,  summer in Lakepoint or down in jupiter, than you will understand, or one of the bigger venues where  every college coach and scout is in attendance, not a handful.

 

The majority of players do not commit as freshman or sophomores.  Whats really changed is that more and more programs are essentially over recruiting.   Your son will show up to a program, and so will 40 other players, 6 will not make the roster in spring, and will be asked to leave.  That's how it is and its not going to get better.

So instead of rushing to commit early because everyone else is,or its last years CWS winner (just as an example) why not commit where a coach really values you as a future player. 

You are right, things are going to get worse, as long as you all keep pushing your kids in front of coaches earlier and earlier, its not going to be any easier, for the mid tier player, not for the elite, they will always get the first offer.

 

What you said, and I quote, was " I don't agree with what roothog posts here, about not getting an offer by junior summer the player is now in trouble." My post was clearly concerning upper tier D1's. I've said this before, you have a lot to offer, but this is one of the areas where your experience is dated. My point wasn't even about top tier recruits, necessarily,  but rather about how quickly top tier D1's fill up their recruiting classes. I believe you mislead people when you say what I quoted above. Please take into account what people who are currently going through recruiting involving upper tier D1's - there aren't a lot of spots left for a rising senior or even a junior who has already begun his junior year. The kids who are good enough to make an upper tier D1 roster, but not necessarily a draft pick type will have a problem if they wait until their junior season is underway. By then, these schools will have filled up their recruiting classes with players just as good who got out there earlier and got noticed. That leaves a lot of good, but not draft pick, talent competing for a very limited number of spots.

You may not like it, but it is what it is and it's not going to change as long as schools have incentive to make those offers. I appreciate your experiences, but you need to take a breath and consider the experiences of others, as well. Many of us are going through it right now. It's happening around us and we are just plain in a better situation to analyze the landscape.

Roothog,

You are talking about top tier players committing, the majority of players and whose parents come here are not top tier players (sorry, not insulting anyone, but that is a fact).   

So by stating that if you don't committ by a certain time your in trouble, is not really right, as most of the people who are reading this will have players who will commit to D2,D3 and will more than likely walk on to D1 programs.  YOU have to think about the audience that you are reaching. Obviously you are expecting your son to be asked to play at a top tier program, along with many others but reality is that doesnt happen often for most. 

And I am talking about commits that get actually offers over and above 25%, not walk ons.  Do you actually know how much they are being offered?  

I am talking the top 250 in PG ranking per class as top tier players.

This is where the conversation gets diluted. If you look above, you'll see that I wrote about early commitments that:

"Keep in mind, too, that I am talking mainly about top tier D1 schools. For a sunbelt school, or a WAC school, the timeline is probably about the same."

So, really, we're really not in a big disagreement. We're simply having a misunderstanding of the scope of the trend.

Speaking of the timeline and how it's changing, it looks like within a couple of years, the NCAA will remove the 25% minimum on scholarship offers. Does anyone have an opinion on how this will effect the timeline?