Just wondering what you guys teach about the timing of getting your front foot down and your hands back(loading)? Do you teach this to be done before the pitcher releases the ball?
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At a younger level I would say yes. As you get better you can wait longer. Many hitting coaches teach that as the player breaks his hands then you need to start your rythym. Its better to be ready early than too late. There are many experts here that will give good advice.
I feel this works for my hitters.
I feel this works for my hitters.
You can't teach timing and you shouldn't try.....Best way I know of to screw up a swing.....
Timing is inate---different with every hitter--every hitter has his own means of making the timing work
TRhit believes, don't teach 'em nothing about hitting....
BLUEDOG
Never said that --- read what I post not your own thinking which blinds you to what everyone else says
It is possible other know more than you------
Never said that --- read what I post not your own thinking which blinds you to what everyone else says
It is possible other know more than you------
quote:Its better to be ready early than too late.
The sad truth is that you can't be ready too early or too late, it has to be close to perfect. If getting ahead of the ball wasn't a bad thing, the changeup wouldn't be such a wicked pitch.
WOW. Bluedog and TRhit agree and they still need to go after it. I LUV THIS FORUM.
Timing is different for everyone but everyone must adjust based on the particular pitcher. Where you start your move during the pitcher's delivery depends on many factors including, but not limited to, the pitcher's delivery, speed of fastball, where he like to throw, adequacy tip off of breaking pitches and abllity to throw a deceptive change-up, ad infinitum.
TW344
Timing is different for everyone but everyone must adjust based on the particular pitcher. Where you start your move during the pitcher's delivery depends on many factors including, but not limited to, the pitcher's delivery, speed of fastball, where he like to throw, adequacy tip off of breaking pitches and abllity to throw a deceptive change-up, ad infinitum.
TW344
If you watch video clips, every good hitter get his foot down and planted when the ball is about halfway to the plate...maybe even closer to the 20-ft mark.
A hitter should not have his foot down and ready before the ball is released. I've heard this taught, and the sentiment that it's "better to be early than late", but this is a rhythm-killer. I've seen plenty of kids that stride...wait..wait...then drag the bat to the ball. They swing from a dead stand-still.
I don't know who teaches this, but I heard it taught once that a hitter shouldn't try to stride early, or late...but on time, time after time.
All this being said, I concede the overall feeling that timing is very hard to teach and learn...still, early is not better than late (for that matter, swinging down is not better than up, ground balls are not better than fly balls, a hook is not better than a slice, etc).
A hitter should not have his foot down and ready before the ball is released. I've heard this taught, and the sentiment that it's "better to be early than late", but this is a rhythm-killer. I've seen plenty of kids that stride...wait..wait...then drag the bat to the ball. They swing from a dead stand-still.
I don't know who teaches this, but I heard it taught once that a hitter shouldn't try to stride early, or late...but on time, time after time.
All this being said, I concede the overall feeling that timing is very hard to teach and learn...still, early is not better than late (for that matter, swinging down is not better than up, ground balls are not better than fly balls, a hook is not better than a slice, etc).
I think Epstein's is the best of the available systems. His use of the heel drop landmark as well as other features of his system DO permit teaching timing in my opinion. He also emphasizes mechanical adjustments and how these fit with the mental approach. This is all part of the timing equation.Epstein tenets:
The perfect swing is the adjustment you make
Hips lead hands.
Match plane.
Hands stay in.
Start on time.
There are some detailed discusssions at Shawn's site.Here is an old one, there is a current one too.
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=177
The perfect swing is the adjustment you make
Hips lead hands.
Match plane.
Hands stay in.
Start on time.
There are some detailed discusssions at Shawn's site.Here is an old one, there is a current one too.
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=177
I gotta say, after thinking about the difference in Epstein's methods vs anyone in the BlueDog camp, I really think that Epstein is right in that the kinetic chain does work its way up.
I've been swinging a bat for the last half hour, trying to really *feel* the swing. Doggie says (ok, i'm paraphrasing - let me know if i'm wrong bd) its all from the 'middle', and works its way up AND down.
I think that the entire body is connected, and it really starts with the front heel coming down. That just sets the stage (and the solid base) for the force to go up the kinetic change to the core (not just hips, but the entire core) for its explosion. I feel the torque when the core (hips) fire, and the legs and shoulders just gotta whip around and creat force.
I just can't relate to the hips impacting the front foot (rotate into footplant). Its just not what I'm feeling.
I think I'm leaning back to the Epstein camp.
(ironically, having said all that, i'm waiting on a steve englishbey dvd being sent to me!!)
I've been swinging a bat for the last half hour, trying to really *feel* the swing. Doggie says (ok, i'm paraphrasing - let me know if i'm wrong bd) its all from the 'middle', and works its way up AND down.
I think that the entire body is connected, and it really starts with the front heel coming down. That just sets the stage (and the solid base) for the force to go up the kinetic change to the core (not just hips, but the entire core) for its explosion. I feel the torque when the core (hips) fire, and the legs and shoulders just gotta whip around and creat force.
I just can't relate to the hips impacting the front foot (rotate into footplant). Its just not what I'm feeling.
I think I'm leaning back to the Epstein camp.
(ironically, having said all that, i'm waiting on a steve englishbey dvd being sent to me!!)
GoMo-
what is englishbeys website?
and you have it right.. about kinetic energy.. it does work up... that is not an epstein thing, that is a scientific thing...
what is englishbeys website?
and you have it right.. about kinetic energy.. it does work up... that is not an epstein thing, that is a scientific thing...
I believe that Steve is working on getting a website up. I don't believe its ready yet. I've been waiting patiently for his dvd to arrive...
quote:I gotta say, after thinking about the difference in Epstein's methods vs anyone in the BlueDog camp, I really think that Epstein is right in that the kinetic chain does work its way up.
Then, how is this possible????
http://www.golfdigest.com/features/index.ssf?/features/gd200412kindred.html
Touche BlueDog
Dog-
This is possible in golf because there is no limited reaction time requirment.
As compared to golf, hitting is an adaptation of the old fashioned (Bobby Jones/hickory shaft) swing which is shortened and quickened most importantly by 1-different rear arm action (same sequence of rear arm as in overhand throw loading),
2-shortening of lead arm/starting with arms already folded up, and
3-looking forward with head instead of down.
The hitting swing is also adapted by using shoulder tilt to make plane adjustment as late as possible.
A long load in hitting prepares the body for a quick bathead acceleration, for a relatively set back contact point enabling waiting on ball a while longer (better location recognition) as adjustment capability persists.
The golfer without the legs can not store/stage the momentum in body coil in a way that it can be released quickly enough and accurately enough to deal with the reaction time of baseball hitting.
This is possible in golf because there is no limited reaction time requirment.
As compared to golf, hitting is an adaptation of the old fashioned (Bobby Jones/hickory shaft) swing which is shortened and quickened most importantly by 1-different rear arm action (same sequence of rear arm as in overhand throw loading),
2-shortening of lead arm/starting with arms already folded up, and
3-looking forward with head instead of down.
The hitting swing is also adapted by using shoulder tilt to make plane adjustment as late as possible.
A long load in hitting prepares the body for a quick bathead acceleration, for a relatively set back contact point enabling waiting on ball a while longer (better location recognition) as adjustment capability persists.
The golfer without the legs can not store/stage the momentum in body coil in a way that it can be released quickly enough and accurately enough to deal with the reaction time of baseball hitting.
I've been reading all of the hitting posts lately and have not chimed in because I wanted to hear everyone out for a while.
There is certainly a great deal of solid info being passed around. Good job guys!
I just want to point out that it has not been mentioned that swinging is simply movement (not that hitting is easy by any means!).
A large part of hitting has to do with physical abilities and all great hitters do the same thing movement wise. IMO this is not debatable.
For example, a hitter with little torso flexibility will never generate the force and power that he could if his torso was able to move properly.
Going further on this one example, this lack of torso flexibility will have an impact on other aspect of the swing such as timing (this is almost subconsious), hand position, early bat speed, follow through etc.
It's sad but I see it all the time. Coaches trying to make a hitter do something he physically cannot do.
This is why proper movement patterns, body awareness, force production and neurological connection need to be developed if a high-level swing is ever going to take place.
There is certainly a great deal of solid info being passed around. Good job guys!
I just want to point out that it has not been mentioned that swinging is simply movement (not that hitting is easy by any means!).
A large part of hitting has to do with physical abilities and all great hitters do the same thing movement wise. IMO this is not debatable.
For example, a hitter with little torso flexibility will never generate the force and power that he could if his torso was able to move properly.
Going further on this one example, this lack of torso flexibility will have an impact on other aspect of the swing such as timing (this is almost subconsious), hand position, early bat speed, follow through etc.
It's sad but I see it all the time. Coaches trying to make a hitter do something he physically cannot do.
This is why proper movement patterns, body awareness, force production and neurological connection need to be developed if a high-level swing is ever going to take place.
Give us a few steps you would teach from the time a player gets in the box i.e. feet, hands,
etc...
etc...
CoachBlu,
Not sure if your post was meant to me, but movement development, movement patterns and neurological connections are developed outside the batters box and then, and only then, fused with hitting mechanics.
Again, if you try to get a hitter to do something he physically is not able/ready to do he will not be successful and everyone is left frustrated.
Some players need mechanical adjustments. Some need physical/movement adjustment and improvements, while some need both. I do not think this is a cookie cutter thing and for each hitter it is different.
Not sure if your post was meant to me, but movement development, movement patterns and neurological connections are developed outside the batters box and then, and only then, fused with hitting mechanics.
Again, if you try to get a hitter to do something he physically is not able/ready to do he will not be successful and everyone is left frustrated.
Some players need mechanical adjustments. Some need physical/movement adjustment and improvements, while some need both. I do not think this is a cookie cutter thing and for each hitter it is different.
