Tipping Off Pitches

quote:

tipping off pitches to an opponent in hopes

If ARod comes to the plate against any former Texas teammates, what's the sign for fastball in the earhole? What a crumb this guy is turning out to be.

this is really one of the lowest things ive ever heard of in baseball, possibly beat solely by throwing an entire game.
i wouldnt wana be on the same field as him.

Shoot first, aim later!

You have heard a VERY small snippet from a radio show and making a judgement. How do you know it is even correct?

Redbird, unfortunately the man has lost the benefit of any doubts:

1. He cheated on his wife.
2. He lied repeatedly about his steroid use, even on national TV (it brought to mind a former president..).
3. He runs past a third baseman looking up at a pop fly yelling "I got it", then denies it despite verification by the players in the area.
4. When he "came clean" on his steroid use, he still left out large parts of his misbehavior.

Once you lose credibility, and he has surely lost it, you become fair game for this kind of stuff. See Bonds, Barry.

I disagree.

I just think many people like "piling on" because they are jealous.

A-Rod is a scumbag!

This tipping pitches story is so self serving; his point was to get help at the expense of his teammates.

He needs to get drilled his first 5 Ab's vs Texas. Actually I think he should get drilled with the first pitch he sees every game.

It would seem pretty easy to prove with all the video camera's etc at MLB games. Maybe Jose Canseco will admitt to it!? It would be an incredably stupid thing to do and would require the assistance of other stupid players with a very very short-term outlook on thier careers.

If true, I can only imagine the response of former teamate pitchers when any of these guys hit against them in the future It could really hurt......

A-rod has proven himself not to be the smartest baseball player.

This story wouldn't even come out if some folks didn't need filler for a book that I won't waste my time reading. I also heard he left a 15% tip at a Hooter's.....BFD!!! Because he's rich he should tip more for the same service? That's absurd.

In my opinion it's a witch hunt designed to cash in on a highly controversial figure being caught doing steroids....but oh wait, everyone already knows he did steroids, so now what else do we put in the book to get it to a respectable length? I know....let's pile on because he tips like most other Americans, because he's pampered (no more so than rock stars or actors or other high profile entertainers). But everyone has an opinion on A-Rod...love him or hate him, so let's have a big money grab and everybody gets rich.

This stuff gets very confusing to me. Of course, whether everything is true or not, it IS piling on!

Does anyone think that any person would devulge to the public everything they have ever done wrong? Who would do that? Why would we expect anyone else to do that? Do we all "come clean" about everything we have ever done?

I'd like to think that we all have seen how sensationalism works. Once someone is down, people will believe anything anyone says about them. We actually want to believe the worst.

Time sometimes has a way of revealing the truth. But if your famous and disliked enough, I guess people just "want" to believe every negative thing they hear from anyone out there trying to make a buck or a name for themself.

I'm not an ARod fan, but can't imagine what it would be like having so many people hating me and spending their time investigating every past day of my life so they can report a "story" to the entire world.

Seems like serial killers have had far less enemies.

When you're down, that's when people start kicking you. There are a lot of what if's in this story. First it came from a book by Selena Roberts, who is known to kinda stalk A-Rod, she writes it in HER book even though she works for SI, and we all know what she wrote about the Duke Lacrosse players back in the day, and she still hasn't apologized for that fiasco. I still think A-Rod is a scumbag who likes kissing himself in the mirror.

Hey hokieone, didn't A-Rod try to knock the ball out of a first baseman's glove back in the day? You can add that to your list.

An it's far from jealousy redbird5, I can think of a ton of MLB players to be jealous over. A-Rod is no more valuable then the dog feces on the bottom of my shoe.

Rock-N-Fire,

I'd hate to get on your bad side.

He is a baseball player. There are thousands who have done things much worse who might deserve to be "hated". He is not the first or only guy to take steroids. Not the first to try and knock the ball out of the opponents glove. Not the first to yell I got it to deek a runner. Not even the first to cheat on his wife. And not the first to tell a lie or leave out parts of his past.

He is a baseball player! Without that we don't even know him. These "seek and destroy missions" are not profitable unless the subject is famous. I'm not an ARod fan either, but I surely can't hate someone, a baseball player, that I don't really know personally.

Then again, I'm pretty sure I hated Jeffrey Dahmer.

As much as I don't like A-rod or condone the things he's done...I don't think for a minute you could pull off the conspiracy it would take to get other players involved in tipping pitches and have no one notice.

Think of it...you've got catchers out there looking at the whole infield, giving signs. You don't think they'd notice something hinky if someone was flashing signs into a batter? On top of that, you've got to enlist a bunch of guys, and all those guys have to be secret agent sneaky and never say a word to anyone...sorry, but in pro sports, that's a pretty big reach.

I do agree that this is piling on, and considering the source leaves almost as much to be desired as the the lack of credibility of the target.

The job of the magazine business is to sell magazines, the job in the book business is to sell books. These people are not mantled with the burden of the public trust. That is something that is worked for and eventually bestowed if deserved. This author has never proven worthy of that...but the magazine and book publishers love her, and will continue to publish her...because she sells, which is much more powerful than being right.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
As much as I don't like A-rod or condone the things he's done...I don't think for a minute you could pull off the conspiracy it would take to get other players involved in tipping pitches and have no one notice.

Think of it...you've got catchers out there looking at the whole infield, giving signs. You don't think they'd notice something hinky if someone was flashing signs into a batter? On top of that, you've got to enlist a bunch of guys, and all those guys have to be secret agent sneaky and never say a word to anyone...sorry, but in pro sports, that's a pretty big reach.

I do agree that this is piling on, and considering the source leaves almost as much to be desired as the the lack of credibility of the target.

The job of the magazine business is to sell magazines, the job in the book business is to sell books. These people are not mantled with the burden of the public trust. That is something that is worked for and eventually bestowed if deserved. This author has never proven worthy of that...but the magazine and book publishers love her, and will continue to publish her...because she sells, which is much more powerful than being right.

Look, I am not sending any Christmas cards to A-Rod this year but I am not stupid either. There ain't no way this tipping stuff ever happened imho. That brings the whole book into question....

Selena Roberts? What a joke....

As a believer in karma I'm pretty confident that what ARod deserves, ARod will get. It's not up to us to decide his fate in the game. The game, including only those that actually play it, will take care of its own.

All this piling on, and for some remaining firming entrenched on the pile, is really just self-serving posturing. Other peoples' problems give us respite from our own, sometimes more serious maladies.

I agree with CPLZ as well.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
Shoot first, aim later!

You have heard a VERY small snippet from a radio show and making a judgement. How do you know it is even correct?

The radio snippet came from extensive research for a book.

quote:

I also heard he left a 15% tip at a Hooter's

That's far more generous than Garry Templeton's wife or Kellen Winslow Sr. Templeton's wife didn't tip. No one wanted to wait on her. Then she would get hissy over poor service. Winslow put the check in his pocket and walked out. My wife (before I knew her) called the police on Winslow.

quote:

I'm not an ARod fan, but can't imagine what it would be like having so many people hating me and spending their time investigating every past day of my life so they can report a "story" to the entire world.

Why is ARod disliked while other athletes are loved? They bring it on themselves with the way they carry themselves and their actions.

PGStaff, I never said hate in my post. I just don't value a guy that's a mockery of the game I love. For all I care that hip injury could be a career ender (is that a word) and he never steps in between the lines ever again. For dog feces to have more value to me then this guy is not hating him. I don't have no reason to hate him, he hasn't done nothing to me.

quote:

The job of the magazine business is to sell magazines, the job in the book business is to sell books. These people are not mantled with the burden of the public trust. That is something that is worked for and eventually bestowed if deserved. This author has never proven worthy of that...but the magazine and book publishers love her, and will continue to publish her...because she sells, which is much more powerful than being right.

There are also laws and avenues for the target to protect themself. Don't you think Bonds would have sued if all the stories were lies? ARod had the opportunity to be the anti-Bonds. He choose to be Bonds II with his actions and demeanor.

Don't like what I'm hearing about A-Rod but I can't see waitresses getting upset over 15% tips. They'd like a bit more and often earn more but that is far from unusual.

I've heard that a certain high profile ballplayer who is relatively new to our area often tips far less.

CPLZ with regards to tipping pitches, its certainly not difficult and the catcher wouldnt notice at all. think of it this way, my SS and 2nd basemen looked in to see my signs almost every pitch to have an idea of which direction they might be heading. how hard would it be for one of them to go to a friend on the opposing team and say, hey if i adjust my hat its a fastball, it not its offspeed

A story of two players.
Player one cheats on his wife for years. Gambles outrageous amounts of money. Is a total a$$ to his teammates at practice and games. Media thinks he is a darling and works his image hard for $$$$$ contracts and endorsements.

Player two cheats on his wife for years. Takes steroids. Is a total a$$ on and off the field. Media loves him and he works hard on his image for contracts and endorsements for $$$. At least until he gets caught.

Player one in Michael Jordan and you know who player two is. The only difference is that one is clutch and wins championships. If ARod had a few rings he would be MJ. Winning gets you a pass. If AROD leads the Yankees to a couple of championships, all will be forgiven. At least in NY.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
A story of two players.
Player one cheats on his wife for years. Gambles outrageous amounts of money. Is a total a$$ to his teammates at practice and games. Media thinks he is a darling and works his image hard for $$$$$ contracts and endorsements.

Player two cheats on his wife for years. Takes steroids. Is a total a$$ on and off the field. Media loves him and he works hard on his image for contracts and endorsements for $$$. At least until he gets caught.

Player one in Michael Jordan and you know who player two is. The only difference is that one is clutch and wins championships. If ARod had a few rings he would be MJ. Winning gets you a pass. If AROD leads the Yankees to a couple of championships, all will be forgiven. At least in NY.

Jordan didn't go play baseball in Alabama to chase a childhood dream. He chose Plan B rather than face a suspension for his Gambling woes. There are many who believe his fathers death wasn't so random either and had to do with gambling.

Topic about tipping pitches?

Does anyone think that Piazza did or didn't tip pitches to opposing batters when he caught for Clemens in the All Star game where Roger was shelled by almost every batter he faced?

I remember that Texas Crude. I really don't think it would be that hard to tip pitches either. I think Piazza did.

Here are the alligations...

ARod took steroids in 9th grade. What was that? 20 years ago?

ARod tipped pitches when he was with the Rangers. What was that? 6 or 7 years ago?

I read the alligations by Selena Roberts. She said he only did this in blow outs where he would tip pitches to middle infielders from opposing teams. Guess the deal was that then they would tip pitches to ARod.

I suppose this could possibly happen, but let's at least be skeptical. Think about it... The other team and you set up signals that are used at certain times when there is a blow out. When exactly and who determines whether the game is a blow out? When and how are these signs for tipping off pitches discussed. These days players move from one team to the next and they have friendships and talk with teammates. Are we to believe that no one ever talked about this until now? Are we to believe that the opponents were tipping off pitches to ARod in order to repay him? Are we to believe that all these people involved kept this a secret for this long and someone then decided to tell Sabrina Roberts all about it?

How do you first approach the opposing middle infielder with this pitch tipping plan. Who else was involved? Why hasn't their name been brought up? Wouldn't anything looking like a sign to the opposing hitter become fairly obvious after awhile? Why would anyone risk doing something that stupid? Did ARod need this kind of help? Or was he just being a "nice" guy to his opponents? Did ARod really have that many close friends?

Sorry, I just find all this hard to believe.

PG,
Thanks for bringing that up, and you know more about baseball than me, but I have a hard time understanding this tipping off pitches process and how it could be accomplished, unless the pitcher, cathcer, middle infielder was involved.
Every season seems like someone needs to come out with some stuff about a player from the evil empire, is it for distraction?

Couple of conclusions.
He's not the only baseball player to use steroids.
He's not the only one to not come completely clean with his story.
He's not the only baseball player to gamble.
He's not the only baseball player to cheat on his wife.
Most people who make lots of money are considered "cheap" because they don't tip the way they are expected to (like they have alot of money).

Selena Roberts has had personal issues with Arod for years. She also knows that, regardless of being fact or fiction you can't sue and win in these situations.

And you are right, he's a baseball player. And not too different than many of them who are self indulgent, ego-centric as well as eccentric. You just don't know about all of them.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

Couple of conclusions.
He's not the only baseball player to use steroids.
He's not the only one to not come completely clean with his story.
He's not the only baseball player to gamble.
He's not the only baseball player to cheat on his wife.

He might be the only one to do all that together.

CPLZ is an NCIS fan? I love the word hinky.

I guess my issue with ARod and his ilk is that their actions cast long shadows. Anyone he was connected to or associated with, could very well be tainted.

He is incredibly talented... or is he?

I guess too, there will always be that lingering feeling that the field isn't level anymore.

"He is incredibly talented... or is he? "

He is incredibly talented, no doubt in my mind.

But, he is a sheep. A follower. A guy who needs to be loved by all and feeds off the love.

And, has made too many mistakes trying to measure up to an artificial gold standard instead of just being the incredibly talented guy he is.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
A story of two players.
Player one cheats on his wife for years. Gambles outrageous amounts of money. Is a total a$$ to his teammates at practice and games. Media thinks he is a darling and works his image hard for $$$$$ contracts and endorsements.

Player two cheats on his wife for years. Takes steroids. Is a total a$$ on and off the field. Media loves him and he works hard on his image for contracts and endorsements for $$$. At least until he gets caught.

Player one in Michael Jordan and you know who player two is. The only difference is that one is clutch and wins championships. If ARod had a few rings he would be MJ. Winning gets you a pass. If AROD leads the Yankees to a couple of championships, all will be forgiven. At least in NY.

wow, im hoping the atleast in NY, is a harsh stereotype. i know it part means the fans mostly care about lining the pockets from selling their season tickets, merchandise, and being the best that season... but jordan never did steriods, never (closest thing to tipping pitches i can think of) point shed= on the court and about the game jordan atleast to my knowledge of his career did things the right way... Arod, not a chance

Bakstop, If I was stereotyping anyone it is fans in general. Everybody loves a winner. Steroids weren't illegal in baseball, lots of people were using them. Gambling isn't illegal in basketball either. But both are illegal in real life. Both players are jerks who cheat on their wives but try to portray an image of an angel.

The only difference I can see is that one won and one didn't. If Arod was coming off of a couple world series rings, he would be forgiven by a majority of his fans. If he goes on to win a few rings he will be forgiven by the majority of his fans in whatever city he plays in.

If he came to Chicago and the Cubs won a couple of series, he would be a God like Jordan.

It's just like Barry Bonds in San Francisco. Everybody loves him there, but everybody outside the city limits so to speak dislike the guy.

This is an interesting sentence you said Doughnutman in that "if A-Rod was coming off of a couple world series rings, he would be forgiven by a majority of "HIS" fans". Of course HIS fans would forgive him, but I highly doubt the fans of baseball would still forgive him.

they all put their pants on just like us.........jump out the 2nd floor window.

I have to add my .02 worth here. I agree with PG, this whole bit of tipping pitches is too complicated to have been pulled off. And for crying out loud, making an issue of 15% tipping is ridiculous. I happen to think 15% is plenty no matter how much money a person makes, that is really reaching. I'm not an A-Rod fan but I do respect his talent, he is a naturally good player, made some bad choices, who hasn't. As a person, I would be happier if I thought people liked me, rather not. You can't blame the guy for trying to polish his image.

quote:

Originally posted by playfair:
"He is incredibly talented... or is he? "

He is incredibly talented, no doubt in my mind.

But, he is a sheep. A follower. A guy who needs to be loved by all and feeds off the love.

And, has made too many mistakes trying to measure up to an artificial gold standard instead of just being the incredibly talented guy he is.

With the steroid issue, there will always be ... questions. Why does an incredibly talented athlete need to take steroids? Why does he need that "love"? (Good way of putting it btw) Is offering all that money really feeding the insecurity which leads to steroid use. Which came first.

I want to put two topics together. How does the discussion last week on HS guys hitting batters and a runner on second tipping pitches to the batter relate? How should a player/coach handle a runner on second tipping the batter since most of you say you should never hit a batter? How do you suggest to the younger guys reading this handling it?