Tired of former mlb players teaching wrong fundamentals

Hey Sam,

Can I ask what your credentials are in deriving that these techniques are incorrect?

The hips vs hands topic is controversial
and has been for a very very long time.
This topic typically gets to understanding which comes first... the hips or the hands.

I teach the Hips and Hands work together.

In my opinion, the hips and hands do not act independent of one another and thus should work together.

The actual swing improves most when you get your hips and hands are working together to provide
bat speed which provides more time to make a decision to swing.

Should you have no lower half hitting mechanics your swing will be limited to your hands.
I see many slow hands, and to counter seek to improve the leverage with firing of the hips.

This topic is difficult to coach and teach. I have
several drills (that I keep) yet I try to suggest the player feel being in-sync and when doing
so hips and hands work together!

Regards

Bear:
By "working together" do you mean that the hips and hands start at the same time?

Isn't that the question here? Whether the hips start before the hands, or the hands start before the hips.

"Working together" is vague and ill-defined. I could argue that the hips and hands could be working together whether the hands go first or the hips go first.

So are you saying that they should start at the same time?

I find this a very interesing issue. I'm no hitting expert or even particularly knowledgable about hitting mechanincs, so I am a good layperson to ask clarifiying questions about stuff that gets bogged down in jargon.

Sam1234 posted two videos with distinctly contrary views as to whether hips go forst or hands go first. The second video goes so far as to say that hips first is an "absolute" to good hitting.

So my question is more or less one that could be empirically answered: do the overwhelming majority of good hitters fire hips before hands or hands before hips?

Or is this not an absolute at all, which means empirical evidence would show good hitters doing it both ways.

I think this is interesting, because unlike a lot of other p**sing contests on the hitting forum, this one could actually be empirically proven, seems to me.

Ken,

I'm just a knowledgable fan. I try to look at as many photos/videos of mlb hitters as possible. It is shown through every (yes-every) photo/video that I have seen that the hips will rotate/open slightly ahead of the hands. Learning from much more knowledgable hitting coaches than myself, (and physics) this creates the torque between the lower and upper body.

The reason why I included the John Mallee clip is because he is a finalist to replace Rudy as the Texas Rangers hitting coach. One of his six absolutes is the hands follow the hips. His opinion means tons more than my own.

I just get tired of hearing about ex-big league guys charging tons of money for lessons, and what they teach are wrong. Many, not all, just did it. They really didn't understand what was happening in their swing, they just naturally did it.

The Ranger's hired their hitting coach. Clint Hurdle

quote:

Originally posted by sam1234:


I just get tired of hearing about ex-big league guys charging tons of money for lessons, and what they teach are wrong. Many, not all, just did it. They really didn't understand what was happening in their swing, they just naturally did it.

I can appreciate your point of view as it is clear the intent of your post.

I too agree there are many taking money for something they don't teach well in reality.

Although I do think Mr. Wilkerson knows what he is talking about. His problem isn't understanding the mechanics of a swing as it is how he communicates it.

Remember, most these guys didn't graduate with public speaking courses.

In my opinion, mechanics can be over analyzed. Paralysis from analysis. A good hitting coach gives more in the way of confidence to improve hitters vs. mechanics. Yes, sound mechanics are important, but seeing the ball and hitting the ball with confidence can go a long way in a work out session.

Sorry Husker but it's Clint Hurdle.

quote:

Sorry Husker but it's Clint Hurdle.

Oops...busted multi-tasking.

That's ok Husker, it happens to all of us that think faster than we can type.

Ken made a really good point. Wilkerson's presentation skills are not the best in the world, but what he teaches is not necessarily wrong.

Depending on the hitter and how his body works, you may need to use "hands before hips" or "hips before hands" to get the hitter to time everything out. A thicker, tightly wound hitter can handle more of the "hips first" jargon because when he starts his hips, everything else will automatically start. However, if you told a hitter that had a lot of flexibility through his midsection with a weaker core to go hips before hands, the bat head would probably drag and not be on time.

My opinion is that a good hitting instructor should know that different body types learn different ways and there is not one way to teach hitting. That being said, know your student both physically and mentally. Some guys you can lock up with too much information like Ken said and others need it to get to that next level.

Great topic sam1234

Let me just say one thing about this post. Wilky was my hitting coach in 1997 when I play for the Lansing Lugnuts and he was AWESOME. I have not spent the time to listen to everything he is teaching now, but I will tell you he does teach a simple approach to hitting. And all of you that did have a chance to play pro ball and you have had 15 different hitting instructors and roving instructors trying to tell you to do 15 different things Wilky was a blessing for me at that time. I am sure he teaches a few small things that I might disagree on but the other 95% is dead on. He teaches a simple and relaxed approach to hitting and it was just what the doctor ordered for me and I hit .302 under his wing.

I'd like to see Wilky's swing in slow motion to see if he really swings the way he teaches. I know he was not a big hitter.. 8HR in 10+ years. So he must have been more of a contact hitter, which is just fine. A hands first approach would make sense in this case, but not for a gap/power hitter. If anyone has a clip post it in slow motion so we can all watch. And please make sure it's a good pitch to hit and not a pitch in which he is off balance and just trying to make contact.