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I'm sure this has been covered, I'd like some opinions on the Tom House program and HS coaches that insist a player buy in to it. I will tell you that I know a pitcher that is a junior in HS, committed to a major D1 program and already tops at 92. The concerns are the risk reward factor this late in his HS career.  I've read a lot obout the weighted ball and holds program and the dilemma is this pitcher has a unique motion and is afraid it could alter his mechanics
Last edited by Bizzle
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I don't have a ton of experience with his program other than I know he uses holds. In general, anytime a coach has a program that he uses to try to develope velocity is a good think in my opinion. There's a lot of coaches who have their pitches throw a pen once a week and run poles and thats it. However, the one program isnt nessecarily the best for everyone. In general it isn't a great idea to take a kid who throws hard and change his training without it being specific to him. 

Originally Posted by Bizzle:
I will tell you that I know a pitcher that is a junior in HS, committed to a major D1 program and already tops at 92. The concerns are the risk reward factor this late in his HS career.  I've read a lot obout the weighted ball and holds program and the dilemma is this pitcher has a unique motion and is afraid it could alter his mechanics

A kid throwing 92 doesn't need to worry too much about his HS coach, frankly.  I'm sure a neighboring team would take him.

Last edited by SultanofSwat
2014 Dad I appreciate your response but I'm really not interested in Toms thoughts, he's all about the program. I'm looking for opinions from people who know about the program and how they feel on the risk vs reward on a D1 committed kid that tops at 92. Taking a chance on changing what he's done all along for 1 or 2 miles per hour and the possibility of mechanical changes because of the program.

Why don't you talk directly with Tom about it? I've found him extremely approachable and straightforward. He's also very tolerant of various release points, and is a big believer in pitchers becoming their own, best coaches.

 

The guy has worked with and continues to work with some of the best pitchers in the game. It's doubtful that he's going to alter your son's mechanics to his detriment. If that had been the case along the way, it's hard to imagine that he'd continue to work with the names that he does.

Last edited by Prepster

I am inclined to believe that a HS P who hits 92 and has concerns that such a program will alter his unique motion can have a respectful dialog with his coaches and come to an agreement on what he does and does not feel comfortable with.  But that player should first educate himself on what he is arguing for.  Who knows, maybe he'll find that some parts of the program can be beneficial.  I can understand a staff trying to work off of one program for consistency but most will usually back off if they know a P has worked extensively with a different program and has achieved desired results. 

Also I see that your oldest is 14 and on JV so we are not talking about your kid.  I don't know if this is the case here but I can tell you that those types of stories tend to get altered slightly when passed on from one person to the next.  My gut feeling is that it is very possible the coach is not taking quite the "my way or the highway" road that someone is leading you to believe.  Your case may be different but as a HS coach and former HS parent I see it ALL THE TIME.  "Buy into it or leave" is language pretty much every AD would have issues with when the topic has arm health and safety concerns.

      My son ( 2016 LHP D-1 Commit ) has been working w/ Coach House since he was a HS Freshman. Nothing but positive results. I understand the concern w/ weighted balls / holds , but that is just one component of the Tom House thing.

      It's a 4 hour workout held daily at USC The first and arguably most important thing they do is a mental round table type discussion that lasts for about an hour. Then there are a series of workouts some unconventional like tossing a football or a frisbee.

       The pitchers finish by throwing a bullpen (optional ) Tom doesn't adjust guys unless they ask . However, if a player is throwing and his breaking stuff is flat he'll let them know.

        Tom House is a force of good in the pitching world and doesn't need me to defend or justify that. The so called 'Tom House weighted balls' or 'Tom House thing'  is just a label people put on it.

         The real 'Tom House thing' is what goes on daily at USC. I suggest you try it if your son is looking for something. But by trying it I mean spending time at the workout not what some HS coaches interpretation of it is.

       

    

Last edited by StrainedOblique
Strained Oblique  there is the problem. It's not Tom House nor his program, it's the ridiculous idea of a small portion of the Tom House program. No hour discussion on anything just regular everyday practice then into a number of sets of 30 weighted ball throws. Then a numerous amount of holds. By the way my son on JV was in the  2009-2010 year, he is now a junior at a D1 college on scholarship for being a RHP. Thanks for your response, some very good info.

Bizzle:  I could be wrong, but given your post, age of the player, etc. I have a sneakin' idea of whom you may be talking about.  The "unique motion" gave it away...very deceptive, if I am right.  (I think my son played with him in AZ this summer in one event).  In any case, my point is, might his future college coach have some good input and "clout" in this discussion? He clearly has a stake in its outcome.

 

I know a RHP at top, top D1 program who touched 100 (no joke, verified, scouts were there) in HS and sat consistently 92-95 with ease.  Would have been a first rounder had he not sent a letter to all 30 MLB teams not to draft him as he was going to school (still go drafted, btw).  His travel program wanted him to do the House, weighted ball program. He started it and immediately did not like how it felt or the results.  His college PC said to him and his dad, "You have a 17 YO sitting low to mid 90s?  Isn't that enough velo for now?  Let's let a natural progression take its course here."  He stopped immediately.  It is not for everyone.  Simple as that.

 

All of your points, concerns and questions are good one.  My 2016 RHP son did the program as a rising sophomore, liked it and got good but not great results.  He did not get a big velo jump but what he said it did was just made his arm feel great.  But, it is not for everyone and is just one small slice of an overall arm health and lower body strength program.  (I know you know all of this).  My son has evolved from "just the weighted balls" (I know this is not all House is about but it has that reputation) to where limited weight ball / holds are just a very minor part of his overall program...one that is similar to / a derivative of Wolforth/TBR.

Last edited by BucsFan
BucsFan you got me, I started on this back in 08 or 09 not sure which and didn't know any better and used my name on this site now I'm stuck with it. This is were I'm at. This is his first year at this school (junio) and the coach 45 yrs of successful coaching and is a great old school coach. He is the winningest coach in the state so you can appreciate the "my way or leave statement" he made and I get the whole buy into the program because it's his baby and he can't have one kid buck the system in fear of a mutiny. I just have a problem with something that may  (may not) potentially injury the kid especially this late in his HS career.  I'm all for physical workouts, run him till his tongue hangs out. I'm apposed to any pitching arm strength programs at this point. Unfortunately Tom House is brought up because the kid went to the coach and said he wasn't comfortable doing the weighted balls/ holds. The coach took him to his office screamed a little and said he'd never in his history of coaching ever been questioned by a player. He wrote Tom House on a piece of paper and said look him up and you'll either buy into the program or leave.
Originally Posted by Bizzle:
I don't believe that building arm strength creates velocity, 

This is a serious thought? My 9-year old nephew has great natural motion and "connection." Why is he only throwing 56?

 

Are the ideas of arm strength and kinetics mutually exclusive? You shouldn't put all of your proverbial eggs in one basket. Velocity is created by a host of factors, some manageable, some mot.

Ironhorse please understand I'm just a dad but I have worked hard to increase my knowledge of pitching and velocity. I me no else believe that velocity comes from your legs, hips, stomach, rear end and back muscles. I believe the arm is where all that strength goes to at point of release. I do believe you need arm strength to handle the strength from the bottom half. To prove my point stand feet and shoulders square to home plate and without using any part of your body other than your arm throw the ball to home plate. Now go through a normal pitching motion incorporating your legs, hips, rear end and back. I believe in throwing a baseball a lot every day a lot. I believe that the day you pitch should be the easiest day on a pitchers body of his whole week.

Its amazing how you can be looking through message boards and find something about  your own High School. I have read all of these post, and there is a lot more to this than what has been said. My son goes to Bizzles same school, an the throwing program that he is talking about takes my son maybe 5 min to do. So with that being said, its maybe 5 min of a 2 hour strength and conditioning program that is done 3 times a week. Also the so called (old school coach) has coached over 20 kids that have made it to Professional Ball, the latest in the Bigs is Logan Forsythe. He has also won 12 State Championships, over 1000 wins as a High School Coach. And I know some of you all have said that this program( Tom House) isn't for everybody, then I guess this one kid shouldn't have to do what everybody else does that is on this team. There are logical ways to handle things, and going to your coach and tell him you are not going to do what he ask, then what type of response do you think he will have? Costing this kid a chance to play his Jr. year on a very well respected team over this minuet part of their training is not the right thing . Also, I didnt think it is used for a velocity gaining tool, I was thinking its to help prevent injury.         

Originally Posted by CBHS BB:

My son goes to Bizzles same school, an the throwing program that he is talking about takes my son maybe 5 min to do. So with that being said, its maybe 5 min of a 2 hour strength and conditioning program that is done 3 times a week.

So, to recap, you don't have any opinions on the effectiveness of the House program, and are not interested in discussing the safety of the program. You are just doing it because the coach has won lots of games?

Last edited by SultanofSwat
CBHS BB
I have said nothing but good things about this coach and he is fantastic,  reminds me of Augie Garrido. He has put together a phenomenal team and we are honored to be a part of it. We have talked to the coach and now realize that it's only being done with a 7oz ball and nothing but good can come from it. This forum is here so that we as parents can ask questions and get opinions from people who may have Gome through simular situations. Thanks for all the help.

That was just to say that I think our coach runs a great program, Rather than just saying he is some Old Timer that doesn't have the best interest in his kids. The last thing he would to do is have these kids doing something that would effect the way they perform. Also that there are ways to handle these type of situations other than telling a coach that you are not going to do what they say. Have you ever seen any situations like this? If so what would be your input on what to do?  

The House "Holds" are exclusively utilized to train the decelerator muscles....nothing else.  By having stable / strong decelerator muscles, you will / should find velocity gains...... while most train the motion that has to do with forward throwing,....the body (brain) has a safety mechanism in place to limit the speed of the forward throwing motion, to ONLY as fast as the body (decelerator muscles) can slow it down without injury. The better / stronger your decelerator muscles are, the faster the arm will be allowed to move (arm speed).

 

The "problem" with the way House trains the decelerator muscles is that quite frankly there are much better drills / exercises that address these muscles more effectively, without having to simulate and actual throw (pitch).  Injury happens with holds when they are performed without proper technique / instruction / and watchful eyes.  A low elbow, altered arm slot, etc. will put undue stress with the heavy weighted implements (weighted balls) and "could" cause injury, or pain.  They can be effective (although - again there are other methods better) provided they are instructed, watched, and maintain good form.

 

Those who may be familiar with Dr. Marshal may remember his very odd drills with pitchers using wrist weights, and somewhat simulating a very slow, more controlled overhead throwing motion....this was where the focus of training decelerator muscles started....House just uses weighted baseballs, and simulates more of an actual full speed pitching motion.  I like Marshal's better, however there are many other ways to accomplish the same....reverse throws with 2lbs. / 4 lbs. plyo balls, reverse band pulls, etc.

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