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10 replies

Too many credits?

YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
Here's a new one that I've never heard of. It seems that I am constantly learning of the neverending rules of college baseball.

So I am talking to the parents of one of my son's college summer teammate at the game this past weekend. He has just finished his sophomore year. They say he is going to attend a mid-major D1 school here in Georgia next year. They go on to say that because he was red-shirted his first year at another JUCO (then played 2 at his current JUCO), he basically has 3 years worth of credits, he won't be able to play ball this coming year at the D1. But after his required "sit-out" year he will have 2 more years of eligibility of baseball with the D1.

Why is that?

Do the JUCO coaches encourage these red-shirt players that it might be best to leave after their (academic) sophomore year so they won't have too many credits and can play instantly at a higher level ball?

"The difference between excellence and mediocrity is commitment." Twitter: @KwwJ829

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F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
Too many credits? By itself, not a problem, IMO. However, "too many credits that aren't transferrable" is another issue.

The likely problem here originates with rule 14.4.3.1.7:
(b) By the beginning of the third year of enrollment (fifth semester or seventh quarter), a student-athlete shall be required to have designated a program of studies leading toward a specific baccalaureate degree. From that point, the credits used to meet the progress-toward-degree requirements must be degree credit toward the student’s designated degree program;

A player attending his third year at a two year college probably cannot have declared a major, and the transfer rule for qualifiers partially deals with this by (non-qualifiers have different rules):

14.5.4.1 Qualifier. A transfer student from a two-year college who was a qualifier is eligible for competition in the first academic year in residence only if the student:
.........
(c) Has satisfactorily completed an average of at least 12 semester or quarter hours of transferable-degree credit acceptable toward any baccalaureate degree program at the certifying institution for each full-time academic term of attendance at the two-year college.

A player needs to plan his courses at a two year college very carefully if he takes courses for 3 years. I suppose that most two year colleges don't offer many courses that are acceptable as third year courses of a specific degree program at the subsequent four year school.

It is not enough to ensure that JUCO credits are transferrable to the 4 year school. For a 3 year JUCO athlete, likely 24 of the required 72 credits hours need to be acceptable to the 4 year school as equivalent to classes normally taken during the junior year. And, the credits all need to be acceptable to a specific degree program.

Otherwise, the player needs to sit a year. He does, however, still have two season of competition remaining.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
You're right, 3 years at the JUCO, followed by a 1 year sit out, leaves only one remaining calendar year. However, a player might be able to obtain a waiver to the 5 year rule (although I don't think that is common), and in that case he could use the two seasons of competition he has remaining.

If a player knows in advance that he will redshirt his first year of JUCO, he should probably consider greyshirting instead by taking less than 12 hours each semester during his first year. That way, he doesn't trigger the 5 year calendar, and he reduces the required number of transferrable hours.

Players who attend two-year colleges really need to plan carefully.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
08Dad08Dad1,000+ posts
I would go a step further - if a player has AP units so that he will not fall behind, I would suggest that he take less than a full load in the fall semester (their first) regardless of what he thinks his status will be in the spring.

Juco fall ball is so uncertain, taking less than a full load means that the gray shirt option remains open for the spring. If you enroll FT, that door is closed forever.
Last edited by 08Dad
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
TPM, the player had never been informed during his time at the JUCO's about having too many credits and being able to transfer to a D1 program and play immediately. As far as his status with the D1 next year I can't answer that.

I just know his parents are frustrated that they hadn't learned earlier about this rule.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
TPM, the player had never been informed during his time at the JUCO's about having too many credits and being able to transfer to a D1 program and play immediately. As far as his status with the D1 next year I can't answer that.

I just know his parents are frustrated that they hadn't learned earlier about this rule.


Ok, I thought you meant he was going to play for a D1.

Unfortunetly, there is no excuse for using the excuse for not being informed on the rule, this is something that they should have looked into themselves, I am into the theory, ask many questions and if they can't answer find out for yourself. Good lesson here on what not to do (assume that the school advisor knows everything).
observer44observer441,000+ posts
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I have a 3 year JC...With all due respects...and unless we are missing something...and to synopsize...and I'd hate to have someone walk away from this thread thinking that you actually should keep your unit #'s low...or that you cannot go to JC for 3 years...

With all due respects I would suggest that the parents are confused... and/or mistaken...and/or tweaking the facts to fit an unfortunate oversight.

Lesson: Do your research. Keep taking lots of the right (transferrable) units.

- 3 years at a JC can offer opportunity, but it can also be a trap academically unless you research and understand the rules. There are ways to spend 3 years at JC but you need to know what you are doing. Greyshirting is one option, to take a year at less than full time at the beginning of the JC enrollement. Another thing that is very commonly done (we did this) is to take one semester of your six semesters, usually the fall semester of you 3rd year, as a less than full time (check your insurance coverge to see how this effects your coverage, and check to see that you have enough units for the last greading periods to be eligible to play by JC rules) then when he transfers he is technically not at 3 years but only 2 1/2, technically he has a semester to get up to degree % and he DI's have no problem with this if they want you. I have talked to athletic academic advisors at DI's who run into this frequently and tell me that is the very first thing that they check, does a player have 3 full time years at JC? If so, he is a no go on their recruiting due to the NCAA degree progress rules.

And I'd add one more suggestion, IF your son knows what he wnats to major in at 4 year, start taking specific degree pre req's that will transfer while at JC. Will make his transfer and continuing academic progress much easier and may offer a larger variety of degree options.

Cool 44
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YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
quote:


Originally posted by observer44:

I have a 3 year JC...With all due respects...and unless we are missing something...and to synopsize...and I'd hate to have someone walk away from this thread thinking that you actually should keep your unit #'s low...or that you cannot go to JC for 3 years...

With all due respects I would suggest that the parents are confused... and/or mistaken...and/or tweaking the facts to fit an unfortunate oversight.

Lesson: Do your research. Keep taking lots of the right (transferrable) units.

- 3 years at a JC can offer opportunity, but it can also be a trap academically unless you research and understand the rules. There are ways to spend 3 years at JC but you need to know what you are doing. Greyshirting is one option, to take a year at less than full time at the beginning of the JC enrollement. Another thing that is very commonly done (we did this) is to take one semester of your six semesters, usually the fall semester of you 3rd year, as a less than full time (check your insurance coverge to see how this effects your coverage, and check to see that you have enough units for the last greading periods to be eligible to play by JC rules) then when he transfers he is technically not at 3 years but only 2 1/2, technically he has a semester to get up to degree % and he DI's have no problem with this if they want you. I have talked to athletic academic advisors at DI's who run into this frequently and tell me that is the very first thing that they check, does a player have 3 full time years at JC? If so, he is a no go on their recruiting due to the NCAA degree progress rules.

And I'd add one more suggestion, IF your son knows what he wnats to major in at 4 year, start taking specific degree pre req's that will transfer while at JC. Will make his transfer and continuing academic progress much easier and may offer a larger variety of degree options.



Observer, very good post and I agree with all of your summations on this situation.

I only got bits of information from this dad as he was talking so it's really hard to see where any "blame" or "fault" fell.

I am of the adage that you can never ask too many questions until you are thoroughly satisfied that you understand everything. I know for one had my son been redshirted as a JUCO player his first year I would've been raising my hand constantly.

Hopefully any parent reading this thread that has a son going JUCO this fall can be informed and aware of this situation should their son get redshirted.

Better to know now the rules than learn like this father did, after the fact.

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