Tools vs Performance at PG showcase

What age?  The closer they get to Senior year in HS the closer to a finished product they need to be.

The thing is, true professionals see things that the rest of us don't.  I've had college scouts talk to me about how impressed they were with the fluidity and looseness of a pitcher's shoulder which left me thinking "huh?" but later made sense.

Elite athletes/players stand out like a sore thumb.  For the rest, the scouts will look at size but also look at how long their arms are, how tall is Mom/Dad, how far are they through puberty etc etc.  They'll look at the physical frame and project how much muscle can be built.  They just see so much.

A great break on a curveball is a great thing regardless of whether it is thrown for strikes at a particular event.  Most scouts will figure they can teach a kid how to throw that for strikes rather having to teach a curve from scratch

Same with an Outfielder who can run a 6.3 sixty but has terrible routes to the Baseball.  That is generally more projectable than the 7.2 sixty OF who runs perfect routes.

I've had scouts/college coaches tell me that my kid has plenty of fast twitch muscle but that he really needs to improve his swing mechanics, and they add "that is much better at his age than perfect swing mechanics and nothing but slow twitch muscle"

Tools matter most in my opinion.  if he has the tools, he'll have choices

2018 grad year. He ticks all the projection boxes. A bit over 6'4 and 190lbs with room to put on more muscle and  still a bit gangly with long limbs. Have been told he has a very loose arm with more velocity to come. FWIW one scout had future grad on FB, curve and change as average. Another had future grade on FB as average and change and curve as plus. Which is all well and good but doesn't help performance today 

IMO, they look first for the things that can't be taught - tools... but also want to see a player continue to get better and improve upon his craft. Tools are great but being able to effectively use them to your advantage is even better.

Baseball-Dad posted:

2018 grad year. He ticks all the projection boxes. A bit over 6'4 and 190lbs with room to put on more muscle and  still a bit gangly with long limbs. Have been told he has a very loose arm with more velocity to come. FWIW one scout had future grad on FB, curve and change as average. Another had future grade on FB as average and change and curve as plus. Which is all well and good but doesn't help performance today 

Sounds like a stud!

Well, there is certainly no doubt that both current tools and projectability are looked at and valued.  Generally, the later the evaluating entity will "have" the player, the more weight put on projection.  So a JC wants to see him perform well now, a 4-yr school (depending on school/philosophy) will allow for some projection and the pro level will look more closely at and put more weight on projection.  Since PG is involved in sharing of information to all of those levels, both are important to them.

hshuler posted:

IMO, they look first for the things that can't be taught - tools... but also want to see a player continue to get better and improve upon his craft. Tools are great but being able to effectively use them to your advantage is even better.

 

Good point...seen a top 10 PG player ranked in a certain year group, very projectable based on frame, not be able to put it together as a pitcher at all this year, does not pitch at HS level as a result. Obviously does not project as a pitcher in college or beyond. Has a good hitting tool though. 

Both tools and performance and add projection are important.  Most important depends on things like position and instincts.  For example a player could run a great time, have a great arm, be a great fielder, but be an average hitter without much power.  Another player could run an average time, have an average arm and be an average fielder, but is an outstanding hitter with power.  They both play the same position, but they are much different type players.  Performance becomes most important once you know what each player can do.  Projection is just an educated guess or prediction based on many factors.

I have seen mid 80s pitchers that I thought would end up being better than many 90 mph pitchers.  There are pitchers that have more ability to spin the baseball.  Some have more natural life on their fastball.  

Tools create interest, performance creates success.