Top, Medium, Low D1 question?

That's a good question and you're on the right track in terms of an answer but you're being a little too specific. It's basically a mixture of overall success for a period of time and name recognition. Overall the top DI schools are the schools who can mix success and name together. South Carolina would be an example. They have won the last two CWS and people know who you're talking about when you mention South Carolina baseball. Another example would be someone like Cal State Fullerton. In baseball these guys are a top DI because they have had past success in wins and sending guys to the draft. The name recognition isn't quite there for mass appeal. Baseball people know CSF is a top school but because they don't have a recognizable football / basketball team some people will miss out on them. But when it comes to baseball they are legit.

A mid DI is a scaled down version of this and on down to a low DI being the worst schools and probably never heard of.

Basically this is an individual ranking / rating system for each person but you know the ones who should fit in each category. It gets a little blurry once you get to the separation lines.

Hope that makes sense.

First of all, I agree that there's no clear cut definition; but, here's how I think about it:

I think of Top DI programs as those that have a realistic shot at making it to the College World Series on an ongoing basis, and they participate in the NCAA post-season tournament virtually every year. A season of not making the regionals would be highly exceptional, and you'd expect to see them making (probably hosting) the super-regionals on a pretty regular basis.

Mid-level DI's for me are those that make the regional level of the NCAA tournament on a somewhat regular basis; but, they advance to the super-regional level infrequently. Realistically, it would require that all of the planets and stars align perfectly for one of them to make it to Omaha.

Lower-level DI's would be all the rest. If a player has his heart set on making it to Omaha as a player during his college career, this is not the level for him.

As others have said, they are subjective terms. Other factors are the conference they play in (does anyone beside the conference champion ever go to the NCAA regionals or will finishing in the top half of the conference standings be enough to earn a bid?) and the level of institutional support for baseball.

A top-level D-1 offers all the extras to create an environment where players can totally commit to reaching their max potential: full funding for the allowed 11.7 scholarships . . . separate weight facilities for baseball instead of having only limited access to the football team's weights . . . an indoor hitting and bullpen facility . . . a proper stadium that seats several thousand instead of several hundred, has a clubhouse, well appointed locker rooms, fully equipped training room, media/meeting rooms, and groundskeepers who aren't also coaches . . . a trainer and a conditioning coach dedicated to the baseball team . . . funding to pay for summer school for incoming freshman to get a jump on classes and conditioning . . . academic support staff dedicated to baseball to provide ongoing advising, monitoring, tutors when needed, and supervised study halls . . . a varsity meal plan, ample nutritional replacement after games and workouts, team-provided meals at home games . . . funding for post-eligibility scholarships to help former players finish their degrees . . . lodging on road trips at nice hotels that serve full breakfasts.

If it has all that, it's top-level. To the extent a school comes in below these standards, it is either medium or low D1.

Visit a few schools. You'll know the difference when you see it.

Watch them play and you will know the difference. While my son was at UNC I watched D1 teams that would not finish in the top half of the D2 conference he is in now. In fact many would be hard pressed to compete. Some of these programs had all the extras mentioned. Except the type of talent it takes to compete. There are programs in the power conferences that are Major D1 programs only by name. There are programs in Mid Major Conferences that are Mid Major only by name. Example Coastal Carolina. I will hold off on naming the ones that don't measure up because I don't like to call programs out in a negative way. But if you watch enough College baseball you already know who they are.

Coach May,

This wasn't a discussion about who can beat whom or how D2 stacks up against D1.

OP asked how to distinguish the levels within D1, and facilities and support are a significant part of the difference.

The teams like Coastal that win consistently in one-bid conferences eventually do get better facilities, as evident by the new construction just finished and ongoing in Conway. Coastal has played like a top level D1 for the better part of 15 years, and they're enjoying the fruits of it by getting top-level facilities.

A team that has top-level facilities and institutional commitment can come back more quickly when it hits a rough patch. Look at Georgia and LSU. Four seasons ago Georgia was in the national championship game; three seasons ago, LSU won it. Soon after, both teams fell dramatically in the conference standings and missed the NCAA regionals. Did they stop being top-level programs? No. They were top level programs having down years from which they can bounce back, partly because of the institutional infrastructure.

Also, there are schools within major conferences that don't have the same quality facilities, and their teams usually languish at the bottom of the conference.

There is a correlation between facilities and long-term performance. Of course there are plenty of exceptions and no guarantees. You still need great ballplayers and great coaching. But there's no denying that better facilities help bring better ballplayers and better coaches together in an environment where they can prosper. That's why I offered facilities as a way to distinguish levels within D1. It's something you can see and feel, and it endures longer than a few good years for a mid-level team or a few bad years for a top-level team.

Here's another way to tell:

Top level: Professional groundskeepers tend the field.

Mid-Level: The volunteer assistant coach is in charge of groundskeeping.

Low-level: The head coach gets to drive the tractor to drag the infield, and the other coaches man the rakes and paint the lines.

Swampboy- I think Coach May was outlining another example of how the topic is subjective rather than making a D1-D2 comparison.

This is an interesting topic, I'm curious to see other opinions unfold.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
As others have said, they are subjective terms. Other factors are the conference they play in (does anyone beside the conference champion ever go to the NCAA regionals or will finishing in the top half of the conference standings be enough to earn a bid?) and the level of institutional support for baseball.

A top-level D-1 offers all the extras to create an environment where players can totally commit to reaching their max potential: full funding for the allowed 11.7 scholarships . . . separate weight facilities for baseball instead of having only limited access to the football team's weights . . . an indoor hitting and bullpen facility . . . a proper stadium that seats several thousand instead of several hundred, has a clubhouse, well appointed locker rooms, fully equipped training room, media/meeting rooms, and groundskeepers who aren't also coaches . . . a trainer and a conditioning coach dedicated to the baseball team . . . funding to pay for summer school for incoming freshman to get a jump on classes and conditioning . . . academic support staff dedicated to baseball to provide ongoing advising, monitoring, tutors when needed, and supervised study halls . . . a varsity meal plan, ample nutritional replacement after games and workouts, team-provided meals at home games . . . funding for post-eligibility scholarships to help former players finish their degrees . . . lodging on road trips at nice hotels that serve full breakfasts.

If it has all that, it's top-level. To the extent a school comes in below these standards, it is either medium or low D1.

Visit a few schools. You'll know the difference when you see it.

Not sure but I don't base it all on facilites. There are some schools that have great facilities, yet still considerd mid tier and others who don't yet have top D1 consideration (conference association also included), but your point is a very good one.

Better facilites bring better recruits, but usually they do so that they can compete against each other for recruits or against the top programs within their state. A very good example would be in the ACC conference, not all of the conference schools have great facilties yet most considered a top D1 program.

I remember son touring the UM facility years back probably the worst I had seen, yet this program was and is considered one of the premier bb programs (top D1) in the country. They have since improved their facilities.

Coach May pretty much hits the nail on the head, you will watch some programs play and know the difference right away.

There is not one definition that will satisfy everyone. Boyd's World can give one definition by looking at team rankings - e.g., RPI or ISR over the last several years. Some argue here to pick a school as if baseball is not involved. If that is the criteria, a school like Duke or Wake Forest should be the class of the ACC. If we go more on baseball criteria, like Prepster described, then Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, and UNC are at the top of the ACC where those schools also offer fine educational value as well. We can do the same analysis with the other power conferences which imho are the SEC, former Big 12, PAC 12, and the aforementioned ACC. Some would consider going to any school in a power conference qualifying as a top school whereas others would consider records and winning. For instance, is Kentucky a Top D1 school or more of a medium D1? If we are talking basketball, for example, then Kentucky and Duke are considered premier/ elite/ national D1 powers.

Coastal always seems to get brought up in these types of discussions so I can talk about them. They are classified as a mid-major because their student body enrollment is less than 10,000 and they play in a minor conference, frankly.

On the other hand, they have won 50 or more games four out of the last six years, played in regionals 11 out of the past 12 years, hosted three regionals, and played in two super regionals in the past three years. In 2010, they led the nation in wins, winning percentage, were a national seed and hosted two-time defending national champions South Carolina in the Myrtle Beach Super Regional. IMHO, although there is no consolation in losing, they gave South Carolina their best series since they've been on this two year championship run. They lost a heartbreaker in the opening game when their pitcher was injured on a fluke play on the first pitch of the game. South Carolina scored four runs in the first innning and held on to win that one 4-3. In the second game, South Carolina won an extra inning affair on a walk-off base hit. Coastal was one pitch away from winning that game and I have not seen anyone go toe-to-toe with them (in a championship series) quite like that since.

Coastal has some help (a couple of student assistants) with their field maintenance but the players also have field responsibilities. Upper level starters generally are not involved that much but the entire team takes the tarp on and off the field every game. Coastal also requires that their players perform community service. I think they have a blue-collar program but the principles they teach there are invaluable to the development of young men imho. Does that make them low-level D1 because the players have field responsibilities?

Now, if you compare Coastal to UNC who is not that far away, and has been in five or so CWS in the last 1/2 dozen years or so, you might say Coastal is a mid-major. Some of this discussion involves context.

I know this, you can often tell the caliber of a program by watching a Tuesday or Weds. evening game. If your program runs out your senior Friday night guy to battle their weekday freshman starter, you are probably a lower level D1 school.

Intersesting discussion, I see it as lots of differnt stuff to make the school top, medium, low.

Good example, how where would a school like Oral Roberts fit in? This is a school that continually makes the NCAA field and regionals and sometimes super regionals. Small enrollment, facilities probably not like the bigger schools, yet they have a winning program year in and year out and get farther than some of those in powerhouse conferences. I am not sure academics has anything to do with it.
How about Rice, what is that school, they don't even have football team do they?

Would average annual number of draft picks from schools have any weight?

I agree with most of the above. My 2 cents is more simple: Top D1 are the elite. If you have to ask if they are top D1 then the school probably is not. South Carolins, Rice, Texas, Miami, FSU, UF, LSU, CSF, Stanford these are all Top D1 IMO (among others of course probably about 30-40 total).

Mids those you have a somewhat familiar name who compete and make regionals somewhat consistently.

Low-all others-eg.,If someone tells you I'm going to XYZ univ. and you respond...WHO? or Where's that?

Another determining factor of whether it's top/mid/low would be if your kid were going there..that usually bumps it up a notch...for conversation purposes, anyway.

I don't think the attempts to define top level based on on-field success have clarified the issue. The comments raise more questions than they answer.

If winning is the prime factor, do teams fall out of and climb back into it based on each year's performance? If not, over what time period?

2013Dad included LSU, a team that not only didn't make the NCAA tournament, but didn't qualify for its own conference tournament in 2011. However, they did still pull in about 10,000 a game in attendance, leading the nation as they usually do. Are they still top-level? How good do they have to be next year to retain or regain top-level status?

He didn't include Dallas Baptist, a team that reached Omaha this year but whose facilities weren't good enough for the NCAA to let it host a post season game. Are they already top level? If not, do they have to get there again or do they also need to upgrade their facilities? Is their one CWS appearance worth more than Coastal's long run of success that has come up just short of Omaha? Can an independent even be a top level program?

What about teams that have had glory in recent memory but have been down for several years. Tennessee went to three CWS between 1995 and 2005, but has seen no postseason action for the past four or five years. They still have first rate facilities and just hired the head coach away from a consensus top-level team (CSF). Are they still top level? If not, exactly when between 2005 and 2011 did they fall out?

What about Oregon? Program has only been in existence three years but they have some of the best facilities in the country and one of the all-time great coaches, who led them to a regional in just their second year. If they're not already top-level, what do they have to do to get there?

Current performance is important but it's not the whole story. As I look at the final Boyds World Pseudo-RPI for 2011, I'd rate 19 of the top 20 as top level, maybe 12 of the next 20, and perhaps 6 of the next twenty. But I also think about ten of the next fifty are candidates. A good season or two or three may not qualify you, and a couple bad ones may not disqualify you.

I think you have to look at the whole picture over time: institutional support and budget, coaches and salaries (does the head coach make less than $75K or more than $250K), facilities, strength of conference, recent success, long-term success, pro players produced, etc.

DBU did not make it to Omaha but your points are well-taken Swampboy. I think there is a lot of truth in what DaddyBo has said - the quality of the program seems to rise when you have a personal stake in it. Like I said above, no one definition will satisfy everyone.

With respect to Tennessee, I think they fell out of the top D1 category over the last several years based on on-the-field performance alone. I watched them play Coastal twice in 2009 (home and away and they lost both times) and I thought they were undisciplined. Now with the hiring of Dave Serrano, I think on paper they are back in the elite category of top D1's based on the coach and the conference alone. The facilities are merely gravy on top of all that. Auburn may have the best and I am still not sure they have turned it around there although I think they have a fine coach as well. Serrano may not find recruiting as rich in Tennessee as he did in California. If his magic is based on California gold, it might be tougher to match in Tennessee. He has the premier conference on his side however and a boatload of money so there ought to be few excuses.

Oh, right on DBU. I guess I remembered what could have been instead of what was. It's easy to get carried away rooting for underdogs! Thanks for correcting.

Your discussion shows you sort of buy into the "assess the totality of circumstances" approach rather than hard and fast won-loss records. I think we basically agree.

Have you ever heard a player say I play for a mid-major, or a low D1, or for that matter a top D1 baseball? I haven't. I hear "I play college baseball" and with that comes the respect by other players and anyone else who is not caught up in the hype of comparing apples.

The hype about level is usually brought on by program staff in the midst of recruiting battles an/or over zealous parents and fans who like to beat their chest because they feel they are sitting atop the food chain when in reality it is only a microcosm of what is really important in life. For all the parents and players out there from the NAIA, Juco, or whatever program they may have chosen, who feel they may be pigeon holed by some people with a "lesser program" "tag"............forget about them and remember that all college players share the same result.........They've taken a "step" most HS players will not and how they handle the next step is up to them.

To tag an institution as "low D1" program is insulting to every player on that team and any other program out of the D1 classification. JMO

quote:

How about Rice, what is that school, they don't even have football team do they?

As a former Houstonian, that made me smile. Yes, they have a football team. They even have a marching band. Well, sort of.

Sure some programs are more successful and actually do have better facilities, coaching staff, tradition, and resources. But the greatest college of all is the one you're at!

I look at it this way... There's definitely a very high level. Everyone knows about them. It's not an exclusive club, some new members enter every year.

Also, IMO, most schools are just one hire away from joining the high level. I really believe that certain coaches can make that happen nearly anywhere they go.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Have you ever heard a player say I play for a mid-major, or a low D1, or for that matter a top D1 baseball? I haven't. I hear "I play college baseball" and with that comes the respect by other players and anyone else who is not caught up in the hype of comparing apples.

The hype about level is usually brought on by program staff in the midst of recruiting battles an/or over zealous parents and fans who like to beat their chest because they feel they are sitting atop the food chain when in reality it is only a microcosm of what is really important in life. For all the parents and players out there from the NAIA, Juco, or whatever program they may have chosen, who feel they may be pigeon holed by some people with a "lesser program" "tag"............forget about them and remember that all college players share the same result.........They've taken a "step" most HS players will not and how they handle the next step is up to them.

To tag an institution as "low D1" program is insulting to every player on that team and any other program out of the D1 classification. JMO

Sorry, but I gotta throw the B.S. flag on this bit of moral posturing.

Most of the people who come to this site have not spent their lives learning the ins and outs of baseball. For every Coach May or PGStaff, there are several hundreds or thousands of us just trying to help our kids navigate some very unfamiliar waters.

When we ask coaches and more experienced parents questions like, "What kind of schools should we be looking at?" they say things like, "Oh, maybe a mid-level D1 or a D2 that plays in a top conference," or "Perhaps a strong D3 or a low D1."

These are the terms we hear. We didn't invent them, and whoever did invent them didn't do so to put anyone down.

There are 300 D1 schools, and they range all across the spectrums of cost, majors offered, academic standards, and strength of baseball program, and quality of cafeteria. We want to identify the top, medium, and low on all the axes that happen to matter to us.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's post. He or she was asking exactly the sort of thing lots of us wondered about and stumbled to our own imperfect understanding of.

Furthermore, there's not a single post on this thread that boasts about a loved one playing at a top level school.

I totally agree with you that every player who makes the commitment to play college ball and finds a place to do it is worthy of our respect. But that has nothing to do with the typical parent who is like Goldilocks trying to distinguish the "too hard" and the "too soft" from the "just right."

We need a taxonomy, and these are the terms that people use. Sorry if that offends you.

If your kid is going there, it's a Top D1

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:

Sorry, but I gotta throw the B.S. flag on this bit of moral posturing.
This may be the first time I've been accused of "moral posturing", I'm usually wearing the other hat

When we ask coaches and more experienced parents questions like, "What kind of schools should we be looking at?" they say things like, "Oh, maybe a mid-level D1 or a D2 that plays in a top conference," or "Perhaps a strong D3 or a low D1."
I'll give you that. Obviously you need a base point when initially looking at the recruiting process.


These are the terms we hear. We didn't invent them, and whoever did invent them didn't do so to put anyone down.
My point was the after the fact categorization where programs are slotted. IMO, when you tag a program at a certain level, many will be slotting the players there also. At the same time I do understand it is human nature to rank things I find it interesting that you rarely hear players defining these high, mid, low "groupings".

There are 300 D1 schools, and they range all across the spectrums of cost, majors offered, academic standards, and strength of baseball program, and quality of cafeteria. We want to identify the top, medium, and low on all the axes that happen to matter to us.
Now that's BS. When the top, mid, or low program tag is applied in this case it is not based on those criteria, it is based on baseball alone, Who's posturing now?

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's post. He or she was asking exactly the sort of thing lots of us wondered about and stumbled to our own imperfect understanding of.
No problem with the question but like many others, they evolve at times

Furthermore, there's not a single post on this thread that boasts about a loved one playing at a top level school.
You"re right, not on this thread....yet

I totally agree with you that every player who makes the commitment to play college ball and finds a place to do it is worthy of our respect. But that has nothing to do with the typical parent who is like Goldilocks trying to distinguish the "too hard" and the "too soft" from the "just right."
As I said earlier the initial process needs these categories, it is after the fact "chest thumping" I find rude.

We need a taxonomy, and these are the terms that people use. Sorry if that offends you.
I am so hurt and offended .... . My point is that while most people that post here have kids with D1 aspiration, there are just as many and probably more "lurkers" whos goal is to have their kid play at a level other than D1 and IMHO those players needs are not always addressed on this site. It's the High School baseball Web not the D1 Baseball Web. If that's moral posturing, so be it.

I truly appreciate the irony of a lecture against chest-thumping coming from a guy who announces in his public profile that his son was drafted by the Yankees.

Would you say the Yanks are a top, medium or low level team?

(I'm not criticizing, mind you. I'd probably do the same thing if my son accomplished half of what yours has. However, as I did so, I would nurture a real tolerant attitude toward chest-thumping by others in hopes they'd put up with mine.)

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
I truly appreciate the irony of a lecture against chest-thumping coming from a guy who announces in his public profile that his son was drafted by the Yankees.
I guess I should have hid behind a screen name and documented that I was the father of a RHP living in the North.

Would you say the Yanks are a top, medium or low level team?
True blue Brewer fan, not a pinstripe in my closet. As far as the Yanks are concerned it is probably one of the best run corporations in the World IMO.

(I'm not criticizing, mind you. I'd probably do the same thing if my son accomplished half of what yours has. However, as I did so, I would nurture a real tolerant attitude toward chest-thumping by others in hopes they'd put up with mine.)
In all seriousness, I hope your son accomplishes twice as much as mine on and off the field because it sure is cool to watch how hard work pays off. In this day and age chest thumping as a parent is more of a sigh of relief and it can come from many avenues on and off the field.

btw- I really do like your attitude because it's honest and makes for good conversation.

rz1 - I don't read the profiles (sorry!) but that is cool about your son!! :-) Good luck to him!


(I have read some but just haven't read a lot)

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Have you ever heard a player say I play for a mid-major, or a low D1, or for that matter a top D1 baseball? I haven't. I hear "I play college baseball" and with that comes the respect by other players and anyone else who is not caught up in the hype of comparing apples.

The hype about level is usually brought on by program staff in the midst of recruiting battles an/or over zealous parents and fans who like to beat their chest because they feel they are sitting atop the food chain when in reality it is only a microcosm of what is really important in life. For all the parents and players out there from the NAIA, Juco, or whatever program they may have chosen, who feel they may be pigeon holed by some people with a "lesser program" "tag"............forget about them and remember that all college players share the same result.........They've taken a "step" most HS players will not and how they handle the next step is up to them.

To tag an institution as "low D1" program is insulting to every player on that team and any other program out of the D1 classification. JMO

Sorry, but I gotta throw the B.S. flag on this bit of moral posturing.

Most of the people who come to this site have not spent their lives learning the ins and outs of baseball. For every Coach May or PGStaff, there are several hundreds or thousands of us just trying to help our kids navigate some very unfamiliar waters.

When we ask coaches and more experienced parents questions like, "What kind of schools should we be looking at?" they say things like, "Oh, maybe a mid-level D1 or a D2 that plays in a top conference," or "Perhaps a strong D3 or a low D1."

These are the terms we hear. We didn't invent them, and whoever did invent them didn't do so to put anyone down.

There are 300 D1 schools, and they range all across the spectrums of cost, majors offered, academic standards, and strength of baseball program, and quality of cafeteria. We want to identify the top, medium, and low on all the axes that happen to matter to us.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's post. He or she was asking exactly the sort of thing lots of us wondered about and stumbled to our own imperfect understanding of.

Furthermore, there's not a single post on this thread that boasts about a loved one playing at a top level school.

I totally agree with you that every player who makes the commitment to play college ball and finds a place to do it is worthy of our respect. But that has nothing to do with the typical parent who is like Goldilocks trying to distinguish the "too hard" and the "too soft" from the "just right."

We need a taxonomy, and these are the terms that people use. Sorry if that offends you.

I happen to agree. Our son is the first of anyone in our family who may have the ability to play a sport of any kind in college so we have no frame of reference. Several coaches tell us "high DII, low DI." We don't know what that means, except that - in the Midwest - that means Creighton is probably considered beyond his ability. But Purdue? Illinois? Iowa State, SIU, or Illinois State? The definitions may also change based on geography.

This thread and the tangential conversations are very interesting and useful. I am grateful for the wisdom on this board every day!

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
I truly appreciate the irony of a lecture against chest-thumping coming from a guy who announces in his public profile that his son was drafted by the Yankees.
I guess I should have hid behind a screen name and documented that I was the father of a RHP living in the North.

Would you say the Yanks are a top, medium or low level team?
True blue Brewer fan, not a pinstripe in my closet. As far as the Yanks are concerned it is probably one of the best run corporations in the World IMO.

(I'm not criticizing, mind you. I'd probably do the same thing if my son accomplished half of what yours has. However, as I did so, I would nurture a real tolerant attitude toward chest-thumping by others in hopes they'd put up with mine.)
In all seriousness, I hope your son accomplishes twice as much as mine on and off the field because it sure is cool to watch how hard work pays off. In this day and age chest thumping as a parent is more of a sigh of relief and it can come from many avenues on and off the field.

btw- I really do like your attitude because it's honest and makes for good conversation.

That was a gracious reply and I appreciate it. As a Cardinals fan, however, this may be a year in which I have difficulty being gracious to Brewers fans.

I absolutely agree with the "sigh of relief" part. And I like a little spark in the conversation, too. Have a good evening.

quote:

Originally posted by 2013 Parent:

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Have you ever heard a player say I play for a mid-major, or a low D1, or for that matter a top D1 baseball? I haven't. I hear "I play college baseball" and with that comes the respect by other players and anyone else who is not caught up in the hype of comparing apples.

The hype about level is usually brought on by program staff in the midst of recruiting battles an/or over zealous parents and fans who like to beat their chest because they feel they are sitting atop the food chain when in reality it is only a microcosm of what is really important in life. For all the parents and players out there from the NAIA, Juco, or whatever program they may have chosen, who feel they may be pigeon holed by some people with a "lesser program" "tag"............forget about them and remember that all college players share the same result.........They've taken a "step" most HS players will not and how they handle the next step is up to them.

To tag an institution as "low D1" program is insulting to every player on that team and any other program out of the D1 classification. JMO

Sorry, but I gotta throw the B.S. flag on this bit of moral posturing.

Most of the people who come to this site have not spent their lives learning the ins and outs of baseball. For every Coach May or PGStaff, there are several hundreds or thousands of us just trying to help our kids navigate some very unfamiliar waters.

When we ask coaches and more experienced parents questions like, "What kind of schools should we be looking at?" they say things like, "Oh, maybe a mid-level D1 or a D2 that plays in a top conference," or "Perhaps a strong D3 or a low D1."

These are the terms we hear. We didn't invent them, and whoever did invent them didn't do so to put anyone down.

There are 300 D1 schools, and they range all across the spectrums of cost, majors offered, academic standards, and strength of baseball program, and quality of cafeteria. We want to identify the top, medium, and low on all the axes that happen to matter to us.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's post. He or she was asking exactly the sort of thing lots of us wondered about and stumbled to our own imperfect understanding of.

Furthermore, there's not a single post on this thread that boasts about a loved one playing at a top level school.

I totally agree with you that every player who makes the commitment to play college ball and finds a place to do it is worthy of our respect. But that has nothing to do with the typical parent who is like Goldilocks trying to distinguish the "too hard" and the "too soft" from the "just right."

We need a taxonomy, and these are the terms that people use. Sorry if that offends you.

I happen to agree. Our son is the first of anyone in our family who may have the ability to play a sport of any kind in college so we have no frame of reference. Several coaches tell us "high DII, low DI." We don't know what that means, except that - in the Midwest - that means Creighton is probably considered beyond his ability. But Purdue? Illinois? Iowa State, SIU, or Illinois State? The definitions may also change based on geography.

This thread and the tangential conversations are very interesting and useful. I am grateful for the wisdom on this board every day!

Just wanted to point out that Iowa State does not have a baseball team.

quote:

Just wanted to point out that Iowa State does not have a baseball team.

...but, if they did, what level would they be?



(Sorry. Couldn't pass it up.)

quote:

Originally posted by Prepster:

quote:

Just wanted to point out that Iowa State does not have a baseball team.

...but, if they did, what level would they be?

Same level as the University of WI..............the wannabe level

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Originally posted by gitnby:

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Originally posted by 2013 Parent:

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Originally posted by Swampboy:

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Originally posted by rz1:
Have you ever heard a player say I play for a mid-major, or a low D1, or for that matter a top D1 baseball? I haven't. I hear "I play college baseball" and with that comes the respect by other players and anyone else who is not caught up in the hype of comparing apples.

The hype about level is usually brought on by program staff in the midst of recruiting battles an/or over zealous parents and fans who like to beat their chest because they feel they are sitting atop the food chain when in reality it is only a microcosm of what is really important in life. For all the parents and players out there from the NAIA, Juco, or whatever program they may have chosen, who feel they may be pigeon holed by some people with a "lesser program" "tag"............forget about them and remember that all college players share the same result.........They've taken a "step" most HS players will not and how they handle the next step is up to them.

To tag an institution as "low D1" program is insulting to every player on that team and any other program out of the D1 classification. JMO

Sorry, but I gotta throw the B.S. flag on this bit of moral posturing.

Most of the people who come to this site have not spent their lives learning the ins and outs of baseball. For every Coach May or PGStaff, there are several hundreds or thousands of us just trying to help our kids navigate some very unfamiliar waters.

When we ask coaches and more experienced parents questions like, "What kind of schools should we be looking at?" they say things like, "Oh, maybe a mid-level D1 or a D2 that plays in a top conference," or "Perhaps a strong D3 or a low D1."

These are the terms we hear. We didn't invent them, and whoever did invent them didn't do so to put anyone down.

There are 300 D1 schools, and they range all across the spectrums of cost, majors offered, academic standards, and strength of baseball program, and quality of cafeteria. We want to identify the top, medium, and low on all the axes that happen to matter to us.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's post. He or she was asking exactly the sort of thing lots of us wondered about and stumbled to our own imperfect understanding of.

Furthermore, there's not a single post on this thread that boasts about a loved one playing at a top level school.

I totally agree with you that every player who makes the commitment to play college ball and finds a place to do it is worthy of our respect. But that has nothing to do with the typical parent who is like Goldilocks trying to distinguish the "too hard" and the "too soft" from the "just right."

We need a taxonomy, and these are the terms that people use. Sorry if that offends you.

I happen to agree. Our son is the first of anyone in our family who may have the ability to play a sport of any kind in college so we have no frame of reference. Several coaches tell us "high DII, low DI." We don't know what that means, except that - in the Midwest - that means Creighton is probably considered beyond his ability. But Purdue? Illinois? Iowa State, SIU, or Illinois State? The definitions may also change based on geography.

This thread and the tangential conversations are very interesting and useful. I am grateful for the wisdom on this board every day!

Just wanted to point out that Iowa State does not have a baseball team.

Oops! Meant to type "Indiana State" . . . but the point remains.

I am glad I asked this question because the answers are as varied as the rankings. The "elite" teams with top D1 status seem to have tradition on their side since some "top" D1's might have a poor season now and then. Looking at the top 100 ranked teams, it is hard to understand why some are as low or high as they are. You have teams with .500 records or even losing records ranked much higher than others. For example Georgia had a final rank of #16, but only had a .500 record. Wake Forest had a rank of #66 with a losing record of 25-31, but all sorts of other teams below them had much better records. Take Charlotte at #73 whos record was 43-16. If the rankings are all over the place, I wonder how coaches come to the conclusion that one program is top D1 and another is mid or low D1? It is clearly not based on rankings alone.

Someone else said name recognition plays a role because if someone has never heard of the program, they must be a low D1. I think a lot of name recognition might come from other things like acedemic reputation or success in other sports. I had never heard of DBU before, but Ole Miss just a rank below them I have heard of because of football. I doubt many people would have heard about Gonzaga if not for basketball.
So does name recoginition really play a big role (top,mid,low) if the school is well known for other things beside baseball?

I would love for members here to give their opinion and take the top ranked 100 teams for this year and give them a top, medium, or low D1 rating.


1)North Carolina
Florida
Virginia
Vanderbilt
South Carolina
Florida St.
Arizona St.
Clemson
Texas A&M
Georgia Tech
Texas
Rice
Stanford
Arkansas
Cal St. Fullerton
Georgia
Miami (Fla.)
Mississippi St.
Arizona
Stetson
TCU
UCF
Fresno St.
Southern Miss.
Oregon St.
California
UC Irvine
LSU
East Carolina
Oklahoma
Baylor
Connecticut
Alabama
UCLA
Creighton
North Carolina St.
Kent St.
FIU
East Tenn. St.
Texas St.
Dallas Baptist
Ole Miss
Auburn
Coastal Caro.
Oklahoma St.
Jacksonville
Elon
James Madison
Troy
Texas Tech
Kansas St.
St. John's (N.Y.)
Cal St. Bakersfield
Oregon
Fla. Atlantic
Mercer
Seton Hall
Belmont
Southeastern La.
Illinois St.
Washington St.
Col. of Charleston
Houston
Missouri St.
Long Beach St.
Wake Forest
Samford
Hawaii
Nebraska
Rhode Island
Wichita St.
Oral Roberts
Charlotte
UAB
Gonzaga
Missouri
Tulane
Sam Houston St.
Virginia Tech
Ga. Southern
La.-Lafayette
Michigan St.
Stony Brook
Liberty
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
Sacred Heart
UNLV
Western Ky.
Southern California
San Francisco
VMI
Gardner-Webb
Stephen F. Austin
UNC Greensboro
Kennesaw St.
South Fla.
Louisville
Loyola Marymount
South Ala.
100)UNC Wilmington

That's an interesting list.

Tarheels, ECU definitely, NC State - an ACC school, but ummm, (as a fan, just can't bring myself to say it) ...

I think App State is probably stronger than UNCG or UNCW. Wake Forest maybe an up and coming?? Don't know much about GWU, but Elon usually has a strong team too.

North Carolina has so many schools across the spectrum, probably not a good example. Mt Olive and UNCP are very strong DII and Pitt is strong JUCO. Could give most of these a run for their money. And they you have the schools just across the border! ...

.

There are certain conferences that are considered the highest level. I would consider every college in those conferences as highest level. After all, if the vast majority of a schedule includes South Carolina, Florida, Vanderbilt, LSU, Arkansas, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Auburn, it's the highest level.

Same for the Pac10, ACC, Big12 and a couple others.

I would consider Duke and Maryland elite level based on many things other than how many games they might win. Just the competition they have on the schedule every year is enough to put them in the high DI category. Remember, even last place at the top level of baseball are considered a Major League team.

I am not sure what you want, there are 300 D1 programs, are you giving ranking in RPI? That has everything to do with strength of schedule, not all about wins/losses. Wake would be higher simply due to the conference.

I think that this has been a good question and the answers are interesting.

If you attend showcases, many will assign a rating to college skill level. That sets off an inquiry right then and there for players and parents. That's rating for skills, not for academics. The whole idea is to try to figure out what would be the best fit for the player and family, and for many trying to figure it all out, I would see why they would want to know the differences in D1 tiers to compare it to D2 or D3 options, even JUCO for baseball.

The reason I brought up Rice (didn't know that they had FB) is because it is a very small school, with high academic requirements in an easier conference. Yet I would consider them as top D1 in baseball due to how they routinely find themselves in serious playoff contention (not by fluke by an automatic bid winning their conference) . So size or conference IMO has nothing to do with the equation.

I did state that I thought that Prepsters explanation made sense. IMO, very few top D1 programs exist, and that to me would be year in and year out contenders to Omaha using baseball as the sole criteria.

JMO.

This is such a great website! (Yes, I did contribute to the fund raising and challenge all to contribute now-don't put it off. The input and advice is priceless)

How would you classify the Service Academies? My son is trying to determine if he has a chance of playing baseball for any of the Service Academies. Because they are so unique what level of player do they recruit? I'm interested in two recruiting measurements-Potential Division level and average PG rating of Service Academy prospects. If you have other info on required skill level I would appreciate that as well. I have researched the academy threads but wasn't able to find info on the required skill level. Any information would be appreciated

Thank you!

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Originally posted by gratefulbbmom:
This is such a great website! (Yes, I did contribute to the fund raising and challenge all to contribute now-don't put it off. The input and advice is priceless)

How would you classify the Service Academies? My son is trying to determine if he has a chance of playing baseball for any of the Service Academies. Because they are so unique what level of player do they recruit? I'm interested in two recruiting measurements-Potential Division level and average PG rating of Service Academy prospects. If you have other info on required skill level I would appreciate that as well. I have researched the academy threads but wasn't able to find info on the required skill level. Any information would be appreciated

Thank you!

Welcome! You have a good question. I suggest that you may be able to get more views and replies by starting a new thread with an appropriate title just for that topic. You may get a few responses here on this thread but why limit the potential amount of help you can get here? Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by gratefulbbmom:
This is such a great website! (Yes, I did contribute to the fund raising and challenge all to contribute now-don't put it off. The input and advice is priceless)

How would you classify the Service Academies? My son is trying to determine if he has a chance of playing baseball for any of the Service Academies. Because they are so unique what level of player do they recruit? I'm interested in two recruiting measurements-Potential Division level and average PG rating of Service Academy prospects. If you have other info on required skill level I would appreciate that as well. I have researched the academy threads but wasn't able to find info on the required skill level. Any information would be appreciated

Thank you!

Great question and welcome to the hsbbweb!

If baseball can help your son get into a service academy, then go for it with gusto. It will likely set him up to be a very wealthy man of importance for the rest of his life without any lingering debt after college. If you think he might like a chance at pro baseball beyond college, you probably need to be somewhat wary as this option will most likely preclude playing past college.

To answer your specific question, the Academies attract top-level baseball players. To give but one example, two summers ago, Army gave Texas all they wanted in a regional that if a break went one way or another, Army could have walked away with winning the regional hosted by Texas. Several of our members kids played in that game (CPLZ, DaddyBo). That is as high of a level as it gets imho.

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Originally posted by 55mom:
That's an interesting list.

Tarheels, ECU definitely, NC State - an ACC school, but ummm, (as a fan, just can't bring myself to say it) ...

I think App State is probably stronger than UNCG or UNCW. Wake Forest maybe an up and coming?? Don't know much about GWU, but Elon usually has a strong team too.

North Carolina has so many schools across the spectrum, probably not a good example. Mt Olive and UNCP are very strong DII and Pitt is strong JUCO. Could give most of these a run for their money. And they you have the schools just across the border! ...

.

That is a good idea. If you were to take only the teams in North Carolina in the top 100 list, which would be top, mid, and low D1s?