I think there would be a lot of interest if Baseball America would compile a top 100 youth list instead of just the top one or two in each age group up to 18 in the "Baseball For The Ages".
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Savannah
at age 12 how do you rate the top 100 kids?
at age 12 how do you rate the top 100 kids?
Even if there was interest, what would it show? In my experience with travel ball kids at 10, 11, 12, etc. who we all thought would be All-Star studs, either disappeared or were just barely above average by the time they were 16-18. Conversely, kids who were o.k. at an early age, really developed into well above average players later on. I believe all kids develop at different ages so rating a 12 yr old as a prospect doesn't always mean much.
It would be interesting. At my oldest son's LL park the All-Star team went to the SE Regionals, they won at state (AL) then lost in the SE Regional. Of the 12 all are now juniors in HS. 4 are still playing baseball. My son who was not on that team is playing HS ball. I think it would be a good study but it might cut into the profit of the big tournaments.
Savannah,
I think you have a valid question.....BUT...Baseball America is a business and I'm sure their marketing department has done a lot of research into what the consumer wants, what sells, and why. I have subscribed to Baseball America for the past 3 years or so but only because it was becoming obvious to me that my son was becoming a "legit" prospect at age 18. I agree with Daddybags that trying to project players at a young age is such hit or miss that it could destroy BA's reputation. Besides, Baseball America would have to add 5 phone lines, 10 phone operators, and 50 additional mail room employees just to accommodate all the "daddy ball" communications.
Fungo
I think you have a valid question.....BUT...Baseball America is a business and I'm sure their marketing department has done a lot of research into what the consumer wants, what sells, and why. I have subscribed to Baseball America for the past 3 years or so but only because it was becoming obvious to me that my son was becoming a "legit" prospect at age 18. I agree with Daddybags that trying to project players at a young age is such hit or miss that it could destroy BA's reputation. Besides, Baseball America would have to add 5 phone lines, 10 phone operators, and 50 additional mail room employees just to accommodate all the "daddy ball" communications.
Fungo
Agree with Fungo. It could be very damaging to BA.
They have a hard enough time projecting high school and college players - no less 12 year olds.
From a business perspective - it would make no sense IMO.
They have a hard enough time projecting high school and college players - no less 12 year olds.
From a business perspective - it would make no sense IMO.
While thinking about this post something came to mind.
I took the negative side on the LL park, but the positive side is of the kids still playing and who are now juniors their HS team has made the playoffs 3 years in a row.
I took the negative side on the LL park, but the positive side is of the kids still playing and who are now juniors their HS team has made the playoffs 3 years in a row.
I have to agree with Fungo. It could be very damaging to BA.
How many times have you heard someone claim that a coach is an IDIOT - PROVEN by the fact that he played A over B when it is quite obvious that now B is NOW better than A.
How quickly folks forget that A really was a better player LAST year.
How many times have you heard someone claim that a coach is an IDIOT - PROVEN by the fact that he played A over B when it is quite obvious that now B is NOW better than A.
How quickly folks forget that A really was a better player LAST year.
I was thinking more along the lines of 8th & 9th graders. This is about age 14. It has been my experience that by this age, kids have either decided to get real serious about the sport, or play it just as an extra-curricular activity. I also understand regarding BA's reputation. However, a prospect is a "best guess" or "best hope" of achieving at the next level. I think PG would agree, the top 10 or 20 - 14 & 15 year-olds in the country can play college ball right now.
True, the "stars" at age 12 are mostly gone..
When my son was 12 (a lefty) he was undersized and often subbed. This only helped him. He worked harder, sought out and played as many games as possible, trained year-round, and now is one of the top lefties (age 16) in our area. The "stars" he played with are nearly all out of the game now. Baseball is a game of attrition. Remember, the thing that keeps him in baseball the longest is arm strength. Find a great instructor in mechanics (pitcher or not) then throw, throw, throw. Long toss nearly daily and bullpen (if a pitcher) 2x week. Play as many games as possible against the best competition and keep physically fit. Do all of this, and he'll play. If you don't, it's guaranteed he'll be out of the game eventually because baseball is hyper-competitive.
When my son was 12 (a lefty) he was undersized and often subbed. This only helped him. He worked harder, sought out and played as many games as possible, trained year-round, and now is one of the top lefties (age 16) in our area. The "stars" he played with are nearly all out of the game now. Baseball is a game of attrition. Remember, the thing that keeps him in baseball the longest is arm strength. Find a great instructor in mechanics (pitcher or not) then throw, throw, throw. Long toss nearly daily and bullpen (if a pitcher) 2x week. Play as many games as possible against the best competition and keep physically fit. Do all of this, and he'll play. If you don't, it's guaranteed he'll be out of the game eventually because baseball is hyper-competitive.
Savannah,
Your kidding right??? Please tell me you don't believe that the top 14 and 15 year olds could REALLY compete in college right now. If this is how you feel then you have not been to very many college games. the 14 or 15 year old kids you speak of would get chewed up and spit out at the college level.
Your kidding right??? Please tell me you don't believe that the top 14 and 15 year olds could REALLY compete in college right now. If this is how you feel then you have not been to very many college games. the 14 or 15 year old kids you speak of would get chewed up and spit out at the college level.
No one, but no one can predict where a LL will be once he reaches his junior/senior year in HS. Also as a paid subscriber to BA, that's not the content I am looking to spend my money on.
Interesting story. My son pitched against a pitcher in HS (pitcher was two years younger than son). Unfortunate but the team had no one else to pitch. He got slammed. Little skinny sophomore.
The pitcher is ranked as of this week on BA as a #1 round draft choice out of HS.
No 14-15 top player in the country could play college ball, I agree with Tx, you'd better get out there and watch some college baseball. College baseball IS NOT an extension of HS baseball. I get a kick out of folks who think their kids can just walk on a college field and be good to go. It doesn't work like that.
Interesting story. My son pitched against a pitcher in HS (pitcher was two years younger than son). Unfortunate but the team had no one else to pitch. He got slammed. Little skinny sophomore.
The pitcher is ranked as of this week on BA as a #1 round draft choice out of HS.
No 14-15 top player in the country could play college ball, I agree with Tx, you'd better get out there and watch some college baseball. College baseball IS NOT an extension of HS baseball. I get a kick out of folks who think their kids can just walk on a college field and be good to go. It doesn't work like that.
quote:Originally posted by Savannah:
I think PG would agree, the top 10 or 20 - 14 & 15 year-olds in the country can play college ball right now.
No.freakin'.way.
No way PG would agree.......Perfect Game sees the best 16-18 year olds and many of them sit the first year(s) at college......
I'll never agree that any 14 year old can play college baseball.......not at any level....
having umpired drafted players and D1 players and having called D3/NAIA baseball, I cant imagine any of them being competitive at that level at the age of 14-15 (and I umpired them at that age as well.)
I'll never agree that any 14 year old can play college baseball.......not at any level....
having umpired drafted players and D1 players and having called D3/NAIA baseball, I cant imagine any of them being competitive at that level at the age of 14-15 (and I umpired them at that age as well.)
Hello;
Since 1983, Goodwill Series has organized
American Teams for travel to Australia [11 years]; China [15 years]; Korea [4 years] and Japan [15 years]. We play only the best players in each country with our players ages 13-18.
Many of the best American players cannot adjust or will not adjust to the skill level of the International players.
However, when we utilize the assistance of the pro scouts in the selection of players for the Japan Goodwill Series, our success record 40%[110 of 440 players]] of the players participating in the Goodwill Series event have reach the Major Leagues.
There was three Goodwill Series/American Team players, who at age of 14, could have played in College. Two are brothers.
Bob Williams
Since 1983, Goodwill Series has organized
American Teams for travel to Australia [11 years]; China [15 years]; Korea [4 years] and Japan [15 years]. We play only the best players in each country with our players ages 13-18.
Many of the best American players cannot adjust or will not adjust to the skill level of the International players.
However, when we utilize the assistance of the pro scouts in the selection of players for the Japan Goodwill Series, our success record 40%[110 of 440 players]] of the players participating in the Goodwill Series event have reach the Major Leagues.
There was three Goodwill Series/American Team players, who at age of 14, could have played in College. Two are brothers.
Bob Williams
Consultant
Exactly what does this mean?
quote:Many of the best American players cannot adjust or will not adjust to the skill level of the International players
Exactly what does this mean?
while there may have been 3 players that in your opinion could have played college baseball at 14 yrs old. What are you basing this on?
Physical tools or mental tools (because your gonna need both for that kind of jump)
Physical tools or mental tools (because your gonna need both for that kind of jump)
I have seen a lot of real good 14/15 year old players but but none were able to go and play college ball at that age
Hello again;
Regarding the 3 players, this statement is confirmed by the professional scouts who coached our American Teams in the Goodwill Series and the Area Code games in 1987, 1989 and 1999.
Regarding the adjustments necessary in the International Baseball Game, it is again the opinion of our scouts who coach our teams.
The American player is not making the necessary adjustments "in the field", "on the mound" or "in the batters box", however our coaches/scouts will continue to educate the player, if he desire to learn 'to read the bat". The players needs to ask questions.
For example; in Adelaide, South Australia, we play the State Team which is selected from 30 Club teams and trained in the SASI Academy by former ML players.
Each game our team plays against SA the filmed and the time AB or on the mound is played on a computer and questions are asked "why did you take the 2-0 fast ball".
During our games, if an American player is
having difficulty making adjustments, our hitting coach [a current professional player] will take him immediately to the batting tunnels or our pitching coach {Mariners Minor League pitching coach] will perform a debriefing at the bullpen area.
"We are all teachers"
Bob
Regarding the 3 players, this statement is confirmed by the professional scouts who coached our American Teams in the Goodwill Series and the Area Code games in 1987, 1989 and 1999.
Regarding the adjustments necessary in the International Baseball Game, it is again the opinion of our scouts who coach our teams.
The American player is not making the necessary adjustments "in the field", "on the mound" or "in the batters box", however our coaches/scouts will continue to educate the player, if he desire to learn 'to read the bat". The players needs to ask questions.
For example; in Adelaide, South Australia, we play the State Team which is selected from 30 Club teams and trained in the SASI Academy by former ML players.
Each game our team plays against SA the filmed and the time AB or on the mound is played on a computer and questions are asked "why did you take the 2-0 fast ball".
During our games, if an American player is
having difficulty making adjustments, our hitting coach [a current professional player] will take him immediately to the batting tunnels or our pitching coach {Mariners Minor League pitching coach] will perform a debriefing at the bullpen area.
"We are all teachers"
Bob
I would agree that the top ten 14 & 15 yo in the country have the talent to play college ball right now. The top 10 are all completely physically mature or they wouldn't be in the top 10 for that age. They are already bigger and stronger than most college players. They simply lack some of the polish and experience playing against that level of competition.
These kids aren't skinny sophmores. Robert Stock for example is 6'1", 180lbs and can hit 95mph at 15yo (he'd be a league age 16). He's also a power hitting catcher. He's played against top competition and would do reasonably well against college pitching after an adjustment period to get used to more breaking balls.
My guess as to the players with the talent to play college ball at 15 would have been Delmon Young and the Upton brothers.
I agree that a top 100 youth players list would be a near impossibility and pretty meaningless. However, if they decide to put out a top 10,000 list I'll be giving them a call.
These kids aren't skinny sophmores. Robert Stock for example is 6'1", 180lbs and can hit 95mph at 15yo (he'd be a league age 16). He's also a power hitting catcher. He's played against top competition and would do reasonably well against college pitching after an adjustment period to get used to more breaking balls.
My guess as to the players with the talent to play college ball at 15 would have been Delmon Young and the Upton brothers.
I agree that a top 100 youth players list would be a near impossibility and pretty meaningless. However, if they decide to put out a top 10,000 list I'll be giving them a call.
I have to question the maturity factor for a 15 year old--it is tough enough for a 17/18 year old going off to college much less a 15 year old
TR,
I agree. I'm just talking about the talent level. It would be absolutely wrong to try to send even the most talented 15yo to play college ball. The talent would be there but it wouldn't be good for the player.
I agree. I'm just talking about the talent level. It would be absolutely wrong to try to send even the most talented 15yo to play college ball. The talent would be there but it wouldn't be good for the player.
CADAD
Not even sure about the talent blossoming as they are still not physically able to match 18 thru 21 year olds, in most cases
I am also believe that talent needs to be "seasoned"
Not even sure about the talent blossoming as they are still not physically able to match 18 thru 21 year olds, in most cases
I am also believe that talent needs to be "seasoned"
TR,
Good points and you could be right, just remember I'm only talking about the 10 best in the entire country. IMO, those 10 are all going to be 18 or older physiologically speaking.
We have a couple standout 15yo at our school. One played varsity ball at 14yo and was a solid player in HS ball against top competition. This year he'll be one of the best players on the team at 15. Physically, he looks to be 17 or 18 at least. He's also the school's starting quarterback. IMO, he's not good enough to play in college yet. On the other hand I probably wouldn't put him in the top 10 for 15yo in the country either.
The other 15yo standout is a football player and if he were a baseball player he'd probably be a good enough athlete to play in college at 15yo. He's as likely as any 15yo to end up in the NFL.
Good points and you could be right, just remember I'm only talking about the 10 best in the entire country. IMO, those 10 are all going to be 18 or older physiologically speaking.
We have a couple standout 15yo at our school. One played varsity ball at 14yo and was a solid player in HS ball against top competition. This year he'll be one of the best players on the team at 15. Physically, he looks to be 17 or 18 at least. He's also the school's starting quarterback. IMO, he's not good enough to play in college yet. On the other hand I probably wouldn't put him in the top 10 for 15yo in the country either.
The other 15yo standout is a football player and if he were a baseball player he'd probably be a good enough athlete to play in college at 15yo. He's as likely as any 15yo to end up in the NFL.
quote:I would agree that the top ten 14 & 15 yo in the country have the talent to play college ball right now. The top 10 are all completely physically mature or they wouldn't be in the top 10 for that age. They are already bigger and stronger than most college players. They simply lack some of the polish and experience playing against that level of competition.
I agree!! They are there, probabaly more than 10 that would fit that requirement. I'm talking ON THE FIELD talent and maturity.
Fungo
My son a current 06 has faced the top HS pitcher (rated by Perfect Game and currently a predraft selection by BA as #4 first rd.) since he was 10 and has owned him. Last yr as a Junior my son called his shot against this pitcher and delivered 400 ft dead center. Played against an 8th rd pick in the playoffs last yr and schooled him too. Does this mean that my son should have been able to play college ball as a 14 or 15 yr old? NO! it's all HYPE. Yes these kids are good as compared to their peers but the 18-21 yr olds are still way ahead.
I am sure there are a handfull of 14 or 15 yr old's that could compete way past their age group. I think people are kidding themselves though if they think these kid's would be able to compete on a high level D1 type program. Even given they had the physical skills (which I highly doubt)the maturity level that is needed simply would not be there on a day to day basis.
I've known some very good 14-15 year old ball players - but to be able to compete with college kids? 
Well, if the college is in a location where it rains everyday and they're not able to practice any and the team consists of just 18 year olds that no one else would take, and I'm the coach. Maybe.
Big difference between college players and 14-15 year olds! Even between the best 14-15 year olds.
Well, if the college is in a location where it rains everyday and they're not able to practice any and the team consists of just 18 year olds that no one else would take, and I'm the coach. Maybe.
Big difference between college players and 14-15 year olds! Even between the best 14-15 year olds.
Every Wendesday night in the fall, the top high school kids in So. Cal. play for the Angel Elite against some very good JCs. The competition is pretty even but the overall edge goes to the HS kids.
This includes at least one 15YO.
This includes at least one 15YO.