topics closed/deleted & moderators with "an additude"

I am so glad that I am no longer a moderator

Bee> - I think you raise a good point.

On the other hand, now that I have tried my hand at moderating, I am convinced it is not an exact science. I have tried to follow-up the very few editorial decisions that I have made with private messages explaining reasons for the actions. Moderators of course are not always right and sometimes neither is the criticism that is directed at them.

Mark, are you talking about the ACC thread?

POOF we're gone......seems riduculous to me too.

just to re-iderate...."It's kind of like a balk, whether you fake a throw to first while still on the rubber, or you don't come to a complete stop... one is intentional, the other is not.... but both are balks.

I agree with mark, aka Bee>, there seems to be a bouble standard sometimes.

When to moderate is left up to the individual moderators. I know their actions will always be criticized ----- by someone. Comes with the territory. I do agree there are some problems and I think the biggest problem arises whenever a moderator (which is also involved in the thread) becomes entangled in a “disagreement” with another poster. The moderator loses objectivity and allows their emotional involvement to control the “close thread” or “delete” button. In fairness to all posters, moderators need to refrain from closing threads in which they are active participants. They need to PM another moderator or the site administrator and ask them to review the thread and make the call as to whether the thread should be closed. In the past I have removed objectionable words or names from posts and allowed the post and the thread to stand which accomplishes a couple of things. It removes the objectionable material but allows the other readers to “read between the lines” and make their own call. Although I do see some problems, I have to commend the posters and the site administrator for the manner in which this site operates. Yes the HSBBW has flaws but I still have to give it an A+ as the best source for information to help the high school and pre-high school player. Let’s put this behind us and not make mountains out of molehills just so we can have another “hot topic” for discussion. Let’s focus on the real purpose of the HSBBW.
Thanks,
Fungo

very good points by fungo,
I'll add one more thing then shut up like he said

I DO believe it necessary that sometimes "mods" must step in and "moderate", being as consistant a possible - - after all that is what their job description is -

or has it changed to "deleter of opposing views"? . . . just wondering

"back when" if (when ) I messed up I could contact Fungo (or whom-ever), if he didn't contact me first and understand what the problem was . . . now with the covert, top secret, deep undercover status, that doesn't seem posssible . . .
heck, it could be a software error, evil virus or worm wiping out posts for all I know



.

Excellent points Fungo...as usual...one thing I would like to point out is...we are all guests in Julie's house...she pays the bills...she is responsible for the day to day operations and she is the "Mother"...it is up to us to behave like guests...mind our manners...abide by the rules..and in her absence she has the "babysitters" who must make sure that the rest of us stay in line...deleting maybe subjective but I have always held to the premise that if it hurts one person then it is hurtful...sounds like this fits that bill IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by catchermom03:
but I have always held to the premise that if it hurts one person then it is hurtful...sounds like this fits that bill IMHO

If that is the criteria for deleting posts and threads, then how many more posts need to be deleted? There are some visible posters who seem to thrive on hurtful comments. And your criteria would silence them.



Then the debate, of course, would be if this would be a good thing or not.

.

Good discussion.

How about levels of moderation?...(double meaning intended, no answer expected...)

44

quote:

by catchermom3: but I have always held to the premise that if it hurts one person then it is hurtful..

Ouch! . . . now that really hurts!

your premise would lead to no more debate, just post after post of clapping hands


.

My point being...there is absolutely no room for any type of hurtful, derogatory, insulting remarks to be made...we are adults...we should act like adults...I do not perceive the deletion of posts as problematic...I despise the way some threads dissolve into foolishishness...again I say we are guests...we should act like guests

Bee,

Desiderata


"Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak the truth quietly and clearly and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, they too have their own story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble, it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is, many people strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of years, gracefully surrendering the things for youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with self with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome lifetime of discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt, the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisey confusion of life, keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Strive to be HAPPY !!!!!"-Max Ehrmann 1927

I tend to agree with Bee>. Too much sensorship will turn this site into a boring site. I personally enjoy some of the disputes as long as it dosen't get foul or nasty on a personal level.

Fungo is dead on. Good post, good advice.

I have to agree with Gloveman, at times there do seem to be double standards.

But nothing in this world is perfect, nor will it be. Still the best web site around.

Fungo Glad to see your all right I thought about your Neck of the Wood's when I saw the New's of the Tornado.
Is everything Ok.

Let me start by saying that in my opinon, HSBBW is a great site and the moderators are in general doing a great job. I have been a moderator on a number of other sites and I know that it is a thankless task.

So to Julie and all the moderators - Thank you for making HSBBW the supportive community and wonderful resource that it is.

And for those of you who have not been a moderator, think of being a moderator as in many ways being like an umpire- 99% of the time you will get the call right - and no one will see or care. 1% of the time it will be a close call - and people will boo!!!!

Shep posts some great advice.

Shep is most Excellent.

OK Everybody GROUP HUG.

quote:

And for those of you who have not been a moderator, think of being a moderator as in many ways being like an umpire- 99% of the time you will get the call right - and no one will see or care. 1% of the time it will be a close call - and people will boo!!!!

Wonderful metaphor

Look, I believe this thread can be useful. Fungo's thoughts were excellent.

Moderators ought to error on the side of leaving an offensive post rather than deleting. We live in a free society where people should have to defend themselves with the public for what they say. We have numerous members who will call out an offensive post.

As 08Dad points out, the problem posts happen where one person finds something offensive and the next person does not. Both parties may be simultaneuosly right and wrong in their respective position's. It often depends upon the lens or filter through which we observe.

.


Does this apply to the wood man?...

quote:

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to be here.

And to me?...

quote:

...even the dull and ignorant, they too have their own story.

And does this mean that we can continue to add humor?...

quote:

Strive to be HAPPY !!!!!

Sorry might look like another hijack but it would appear to be on topic to me...

44

I think the real moderators of the HSBBW are those posters that show restraint during posts where posters disagree and are big enough to say “I’m sorry” or “I appreciate your point of view” or even “let’s agree to disagree”. Those people are the backbone of the HSBBW and are the ones that keep the topics on track and the discussions positive. Understand there is no definition of a successful baseball “career” and no handbook to follow so there will ALWAYS be differing opinions. That’s healthy. Think about it --- that’s why the HSBBW exists. I think it’s important that we all share our opinions. I went into this youth baseball adventure knowing nothing about what was about to happen and my opinions were formed by others that had already traveled that path. Thank goodness I had choices presented as discussions errupted over different opinoins. How can you have a "discussion" if everyone agrees? What you say may be wrong for my son but could be perfect for another. Catchermom03's tag (Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved”)Doesn't that explains that we may have to disagree just a little before we can find the right answer? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks the EH, It has been a tough couple of weeks for West Tennessee with close to 30 people losing their lives and much damage. Anyone that has been through a tornado (I have) knows the destruction can be massive while a mile away everything remains untouched. While we were relative close to the recent tornados they never touched our property or our lives.
I was fishing yesterday knowing that bad weather was all around me and I stayed within sight of my truck. My weather updates came via the cell phone with the ever cautious wife on the other end. When the storms closed in on me I high tailed it. I almost waited too long because within a mile of the lake my truck and I had to take shelter in an abandoned barn to avoid being beaten to a pulp with golf ball sized hail.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
.



And does this mean that we can continue to add humor?...

[QUOTE] Strive to be HAPPY !!!!!

I HOPE SO!!!

.

A lot of REALLY good stuff here that all posters, be they esteemed old timers of younsters, should pay heed to....

Lots of ways to make this thing work well...compassion, understanding, patience, the golden rule, listening, consideration of others points of view, calmness, a willingnes to allow another to be right....or wrong for that matter...an ability to seperate points of view from people themselves....

44

As a moderator, I have limited myself to addressing things I consider obscene or vulgar verbage and editing a post accordingly. I believe that I may have closed a thread once or twice but have generally chosen to contact Julie when I see something that I feel needs to be addressed. If she agrees with me, she will delete or lock the thread; if she doesn, she is always kind enough to send me a message as to why she is leaving the thread untouched.

What I personally would like to see though, to take some of the mystery out of the moderating functions, is for moderators to state clearly why they are doing a certain thing ... if they are locking the thread, if they are changing words that are deemed offensive, etc. The moderating function easily allows us to do that. I became more adamant about moderators identifying themselves and explaining their reasons after several posts by women HSBBWebsters were deleted without explanation or ownership on the men's forum when it first opened. Guess I think it has to do with people owning up to their responsibilities and actions in a grown up sort of way.

JMHO

FBM - I agree with every word of your post!!!

I've been reading this thread but didn't want to comment right away. I appreciate the input in all the posts above. Probably the comment that resonated the most for me is this:

"And for those of you who have not been a moderator, think of being a moderator as in many ways being like an umpire- 99% of the time you will get the call right - and no one will see or care. 1% of the time it will be a close call - and people will boo!!!!"

Of course it usually is the close calls or the gray areas that cause controversy and sometimes hurt feelings. It's easy to decide to delete a post which includes vulgar language. It's harder to decide what to do when two or more members of the forums start battling and the comments get personal or unkind.

Do you let the thread run its course and let the general membership police it publicly? Sometimes. But then sometimes those threads become the kind that give a wrong impression to new members when they drop by for the first time.

Do you send a PM to other moderators and ask for their help or advice? Sometimes. But sometimes that advice reflects opposite opinions as well.

I don't have the answers. I always admired the way Bob Howdeshell handled this website and forum, and when I first took it over ten months ago, I was so nervous about doing something that would be inconsistent with his wishes, that I tried to handle every controversy by privately contacting the members involved, explaining the problem, hearing their views, trying to get both sides to listen to reason. The problem was that I was spending about 30 to 40 hours per week on my volunteer duties. That had some scary effects on my ability to do my real job and help support my family, and I aimed to cut back to 20 hours or less per week spent administering the site.

As time went on and our membership and activity level continued to grow, I added more moderators, shared a short list of basic guidelines with them, pointed them to the Board Manners page and told them to feel free to ask any other Moderator for help, including me. I also told the Moderators that they were chosen because they had demonstrated (to me, or to Bob prior to me) that they had good intentions and good judgment, and that I would support them and back them up in exercising those good intentions. I am truly thankful for them, and I think they do a great job.

There are many more thoughts I could share here. I sometimes lose sleep over the site, and sometimes shed some tears, whether it's over criticism I receive, or realizing that I might have caused someone else pain by making a mistake. There have been a few days when I felt downright heartbroken over one of the above. But in spite of any imperfections, I still think that this is a pretty helpful resource for parents and players, which of course is the main reason we are all here.

Julie

Julie, it's a great site for all who visit and all who depend on it and this is a tempest in a teapot. I don't even know what people are talking about in this case and I'm here a lot.

You not only have maintained the site to its former high standards, you have made it better and of that I am sure that even Bob himself would agree.

Thanks for keeping it alive and more.

44:

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
.

A lot of REALLY good stuff here that all posters, be they esteemed old timers or youngsters, should pay heed to....

Lots of ways to make this thing work well...compassion, understanding, patience, the golden rule, listening, consideration of others points of view, calmness, a willingnes to allow another to be right....or wrong for that matter...an ability to seperate points of view from people themselves....

44

Not only is your post excellent...it is most excellent.

I especially liked the part about the Golden Rule...do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

Archaic you say...woefully outdated...not practical...for losers only...

I don't think so!

Thanks again, 44...what a nice message to read on a fine Sunday morning.

It ties in superbly with Shep's posting of the Disiderata...some food for thought...for all of us.

MN-MOM, I've wondered since I started wandering around in the HSBBWEB, why you would do all the work you do keeping the web running and allowing us to share thoughts and ideas. I still don't have the answer except that you are a very kind and helpful person! Thanks for giving all of us this mode of communication and allowing us to make new friends without being judged by our appearance. I'm new here so I'm still learning the ropes and I'm hoping I'm not offending anyone with my kidding around at times. Thanks again!

Julie,

IMO - You continue to do an outstanding job with this site. I think it is as good as it ever was.

My sincerest thanks for all you do.

MnMom, echoing "it's" above re the great job you're doing

my intent starting this thread was not to critisize, but to air some questions and get some dialog going.

we do appreciate how tough the job of moderator can be, it's kind or a catch 22, lol

if someone WANTS & ENJOYS doing it they probably won't be very good at it

keep up the good work on a valued resource


.

Bee said:

quote:

if someone WANTS & ENJOYS doing it they probably won't be very good at it

I don't know if that makes sense to everyone, but personally I think it's very true!

In most situations, our moderators (including me) don't ENJOY taking an action that is likely to make at least one member feel slighted. We try to practice uhhhh ... moderation ... in moderation.

MN-Mom
I wrote this on a earlier thread, a couple days ago.
But I believe it should of been on this thread.

The problem with pulling your Post are Having it Moderated !!
Nobody Know's where the Banter started From.
There's times when Myself, and I'm sure Other Poster's are the Last Poster Before someone Start's Chewing someone else out for what they Posted. Yet the Originator are Perpetrator get's off Scott Free
And then it make's it look like your the one that started it.

Do you understand where I'm coming from? the EH

theEH,

Yes, I do understand what you are saying, and that is one of the difficulties in deciding how to handle a dispute that has gone beyond debate and has gotten ugly or seems to be headed there. Most threads don't instantly jump from 0 to 10 on the scale of breaking the board rules - there are a lot of shades of gray in between. So it's hard to know when to put a halt to it, and the best way to try to halt the negative stuff - especially when there are usually some other very valuable posts sprinkled in that thread.

And another gray area is something I think ClevelandDad and FutureBackMom both alluded to above, that if we delete an obviously inappropriate post by one member, then other moderators and/or members who care about the forum, don't have the chance to see that post and learn something about that poster's "contributions" here.

Again, I'm sorry to say this but I don't have all the answers, just a desire shared by other moderators to do the best we can, to get ideas from an occasional discussion like this, and to respect the feelings of all well-intentioned posters while keeping this message board a safer and kinder place than many others.

Julie

Boss Lady "J"

Julie, I know what I have said to you privately but I would also like to say publicly that I am very very sorry about all of this and turning over new leaf. peace, Shep
<Edited by Shep>

Moderating is a very tough job and you can never please them all. At least all the comments to the moderator are civil. I moderate on a Police web site and can't say the same. Keep up the good work.

PM for the Boss. Off topic though.

Hey!!! Where did my post go?



Just kidding.....

DBAT 18 GM:

Just for that kidding I'm going to give you a swift kick in DBAT! 18 swift ones...for Good Measure!