Transfers and NLI

if on scholly .. they have requested, and been granted their release

if not on scholly, looking for greener grass, or maybe any grass

gotcha -- thanks for the info

One of the players I heard about did not get one at-bat at his school's fall world series. A baseball parent I know told me a while back that big-name programs oftentimes have a way of getting rid of players without having to actually cut them. I wonder if this player falls into that category.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
gotcha -- thanks for the info

One of the players I heard about did not get one at-bat at his school's fall world series. A baseball parent I know told me a while back that big-name programs oftentimes have a way of getting rid of players without having to actually cut them. I wonder if this player falls into that category.

Most likely that is the case, or they tell the player they don't see him getting much playing time. It usually happens in season, but this year, most likley it is happening in the fall. The coach has given teh player an opportunity he has to abide by for one year, but not a promise to play.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:

A baseball parent I know told me a while back that big-name programs oftentimes have a way of getting rid of players without having to actually cut them.

They call it running kids off, and it's not common, but not uncommon either. All kinds of tactics are employed by those that practice it. I know one program where they used the strength and conditioning coaches to run kids off.

At what point does the transfers affect the APR of the colleges.

How does players who get their baseball grants taken away affect the APR if they do not transfer?

Will this reduce the amount of over recruiting?

Dear All, I am class of 08' and currently looking at mainly Divsion 3 schools, specifically Lynchburg College in V.A.,my question is, Is it common for d3 players who have had a good enough spring season to earn a scholarship at a d2 or d1 school to transfer out of the d3 school to the d2 or d1 school, and also does this cost you a year of eligibility under the new rules? any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

MattD,
Under current rules you could move from D3 to D1 or D2 without penalty, but this is EXACTLY the action that causes programs to OVER RECRUIT. I think it is rare and personally unethical and immoral to do that to a coach and a program. I can say at our program we have received many transfers and have never had a player transfer out, and it all boils down to a very simple concept, make the right choice first, and find the right fit, baseball is secondary. Your education is first! out of the over 134,000 HS baseball players less than 6,000 make teams and only 600 of them get a chance to play at the next level. Check the NCAA site for probablilies of play at the professional level. MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SCHOOL, IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH SCOUTS WILL FIND YOU.

immoral?

Thou shalt not transfer?

There are actually nearly 500,000 high school players --- a quarter or more of those are seniors. And there are only about 2500 roster spots at D1 schools for freshman ---- making it one-half of one percent of all kids who play in high school who will play at the D1 level. YOU ARE RIGHT ---- CHOOSE THE BEST FIT WHERE YOU WILL GET A GOOD EDUCATION AND CAN PLAY!

quote:

by matt:
A) - Is it common for d3 players who have had a good enough spring season to earn a scholarship at a d2 or d1 school to transfer out of the d3 school to the d2 or d1 school,
B) - does this cost you a year of eligibility

A) not really, transfers do happen, but most guys don't enroll in a school they don't really want to be at as a stepping stone only (edited to clarify)

B) yes

"I think it is rare and personally unethical and immoral to do that to a coach and a program."

I've read numerous posts from "well-meaning" parents through the years on this site that state something like, "Do your research before making a choice of schools" or "Once the choice is made a player should be loyal to the school" or "Make the choice based on the school first because education is the most important thing". Basically, their message is that players should stay at their first choice of schools no matter what. Doesn't make any difference if things/situations did not turn out as promised by coaches-just stick it out because the research should have been done beforehand to determine what the program would be like in the future.

Just a thought for those who feel this way:

The divorce rate in America is anywhere from 40% to 50% depending on which report you believe. People actually get to "practice" before they decide to get married(some do it longer than others) and yet still get divorced after making the MOST IMPORTANT decision
of their lives. Funny, isn't it? Supposedly, mature adults-doing research and actually getting to practice with their future partner BEFORE making the decision and they still
decide to call it quits at the rate of appr.50%-many thinking they're moving on to greener pastures.

Yet a young 18-20 year old boy is expected to "do his research" and make a major decision
in his life without getting the benefit of "practice" and stay with that decision regardless of what happens afterward. Got to wonder?????

ASSUMPTIONS:

Each and every summer, the top STATE programs have a good idea who the top players in their home State are. They compete, and "help" each other lock these kids in. They have been seen playing on numerous occasions, and the book is out on them.

Some of these kids also gain exposure on a more national level, be it TOS, ECPS, AREACODE, AFLAC, etc. Those from this group who actually make it to a college campus are the ones who get recruited the most from the out-of-State powers. They have the options to be some of the few who don't end up on one of the best teams within their home State.

Who has seen the kid play the most, in person? The Home State coach, or the coach who is 15 States away, saw the player at maybe one or two events, and may be relying on reports from publications, scouts, and showcasers??

To have the talent to get recruited to play college baseball, at any level is quite an accomplishment. You have been identified to have an opportunity to show what you can do at a level where the talent starts squeezing upwards.

They have seen you, they have seen what you can do. They have seen you both good and bad against stronger, and weaker competition. Now they will watch you and evaluate you against the best available competition that THEY brought into their own programs.

They have expectations from you.

If you hit, hit well consistently, and prove to them they were right, you have no issues. If you pitch and gets guys out consistently, as they expected you should, then you have no issues.

If you don't, then you have to correct the issues and get better before they find someone else.

"Doing the research" to me means eliminating certain variables that are out of ones control. If the coach has a bad rep, you can't change that. If the cost of attendance doesn't match, you can't change that. If the proximity of a program would make it difficult for the family, you can't change that.

quote:

by VJC: Under current rules you could move from D3 to D1 or D2 without penalty, but this is EXACTLY the action that causes programs to OVER RECRUIT.

well those rules are history, however ...

at DI, coaches over-recruit because it is their decision to do so ... a few reasons, imo

a) not good at identifying talent that fits his program

b) he'd rather do other stuff than scout


a DIII coach that over-recruits does so because ..

a) he is told he MUST - carrying 20 extra players and/or a JV team = 20 x $45,000 (coa) = about an extra "cool million dollars" to the college

b) his institutional support is so weak alot players with other options get pist and move on

quote:

Originally posted by VJC Baseball:
I think it is rare and personally unethical and immoral to do that to a coach and a program.

At first I was surprised by the above but after reading over again I think I understand your point. Making the decision to head off to one program should not be about settling, with the thought in mind beforehand, if I don't like it I can just leave. I can't speak for other programs but the new rule was created for D1 programs, to stop the unethical coach from recuiting more than he needs and forcing good players to leave (either being cut or run off). I am not sure if the word "unethical" is appropriate to use on young men who may have made a wrong decision, if it was the right decision at the time and may have been for a year or two.

I know players who have transfered, but it was not because they came in with that attitude, but because this was really where they wanted to go and stay but also really wanted to play. At some point you need to reevaluate the situation and move on, not because this was the intention you had all along or it wasn't the right fit, but because circumstances just didn't allow you the opportunity presented to you.

Sometimes we have to be careful of the statments we make and not generalize, not all coaches recruit with bad intentions and not all recruits choose where they want to go to school with thoughts of leaving.

Matty,
You will lose a year of eligibility only transfering from a D1 to a D1, now you must sit out one year at the new program.

Bee> makes a great point, over recruiting in D1 was because the coach was lazy, or that so many kids were knocking at his door why should he go out looking. Over recruiting in D2 and D3 schools do so for needed $$$$ to help sustain and support their school, do the math as Bee suggests. One has to be careful to watch their numbers as well.

JMO.

quote:

by TPM: Matty, You will lose a year of eligibility only transfering from a D1 to a D1, now you must sit out one year at the new porgram

I'm kinda, pretty sure that ncaa requires ALL 4yr-to-4yr transfers to meet requirements of the "certifying school" (the new school)

and since DI baseball now has lost it's "one time exemption"/"immediate eligibility" by new rules, anyone defined as a transfer falls under rule regardless of where they came from and would have no claim to the "immediate eligibility/one time exemption" .. as it no longer exists in DI baseball after Jan.
logicly it would be "bad form" to bring the rules from the school you are abandoning with you and try to trump your new schools rules with 'em


that would be why DI could trans to DII or DIII, because their "certifying rules" have not changed

in other words, it doesn't matter where ya came from ...
it matters where you're going



(edited a couple times fore clarity)
(no reference to golf intended)
(no angst intended)

There are several similar posts concerning transfers, NLI's, over recruiting. While I am against over recruiting isn't it true that if a kid is not in the top 25 players at his school and on the travel team, he is not going to see much playing time anyway? Obviously it would be harder to make this top 25 at some institutions than others?

In addition I don't see the real problem with redshirting, especially for a freshman at Big State U. As Natural stated it is a very small percentage of players who play D1 Baseball. An incoming freshman is typically trying to earn a spot against one of these talented few a year or 2 or 3 older, who has already been thru the countless hours of college practice, conditioning, instruction, etc. I know numerous very talented sophmores and juniors at Big State U who were redshirted as freshman. These players are now more mature, better team leaders, more accepting of incoming freshman and more understanding of their situation and are real TEAM players.


Another thing to realize is that many kids would not meet entry requirements at some of these schools without the athletic help. Before transferring think long and hard. There are a lot of things worse than sitting the bench for a year, learning from older players, and enjoying what many Big State U's have to offer off the baseball field.

I am happy to start a discussion, let me clarify, Transfering is not an issue, if circumstances change and you should transfer than so be it. If you don't like the school and program or it was not as advertised, then transfer, no problem. But to go to a 4 year school expecting to transfer after you "develop" is what I think is unacceptable. If that is your thought process, then a JUCO is where you should be going, that is what they are set up for. As for overrecruiting, Bee you do have some quality points. We do our best not to over recruit, but we do carry a JV squad as well, we are not told to do it, infact most schools that I am aware of that bring in "too many" guys are actually the cheaper state schools, not the expensive Private schools. That may differ in other parts of the country. Bottom line is the problem on both sides and the answer, is get to know the coach, his practices, what he stands for and previous experiences by his players, are they happy there, how many have transfered out, and how many have transfered in. In our society, integrity is quickly becoming obsolete on both the coaching side and the recruit side.

Gotcha.

Thank you for the advice,I had an idea of what the response would be but that definelty helps, everyone I have talked to has said pretty much the same thing, and from my perspective Lynchburg definetly has the great academic programs and emphasizes academics first. Thanks to all for responding.

Also, just to clarify, in no way do I have any intention of transferring out of a school just because of the baseball, I was just curious after reading up on the different topics of recruiting posted on the message boards. Thanks

I would say this about transferring. We were absolutely overwhelmed at the time. I think there is alot of we better get on this train because there may not be another mentally. You keep your fingers crossed hoping that the right decision was made because you can only be a college freshman once.

If the decision was based solely on baseball, you are more inclined to consider transfer if things do not work out as expected.