Travel Ball - Good and Bad.......

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Everyone is different, some do need that to improve, others just have to pick up the ball or bat and know instinctively what it's all about.

The ones that need youth travel ball to improve may survive one more year than they otherwise would have but that is about it. Travel ball can only accelerate the learned skills development but only to the level that innate ability will permit. By the time HS ball comes around the innate abilities are becoming pretty obvious and smoothed out. Somewhere around age 16 years predictions about future success becomes more accurate.

Playing travel or rec for fun is important so you can grow in skills anad the speed of the game. But on the small diamond adult observers should not expect a return on their investment. The players must prove themselves all over again when they step up onto the full sized diamond.

I am not disagreeing with BHD, he makes good points, I just don't see the benefit of playing travel ball for very young players. I don't think the discussion is about it in general other than it shoulod be fun, just if at young ages it actually will produce the results you want when thr player is getting ready for the recruiting process or the draft or for even making teh HS team. Daque is correct, there is a process where the herd becomes a bit thinner, and those with the physical and mental skills (not just the elite player) will move forward.

FWI, here is an interesting article I found, son played for Mike Roberts in HS, senior summer (it was the same team that he passed up the summer before). Great team, great man (tough as nails but loved those kids) who made sure his players were seen by the right people for their ability, not all players on son's team went onto play college ball, but most likely gained those life skills needed to survive at teh next level (in son's case college). I remember son's pitching coach saying if son could play for Mike he could play for anyone.
My point is, will these 9 year olds be playing in HS?

BTW, IS there such a thing as local rec ball anymore in most places?

http://www.travelballselect.co...w&id=2275&Itemid=189

BOBBLE ... Why do you keep bringing a preteen conversation back to the D1 and pro level when what a kid does at the preteen level has NOTHING to do with making a high school, college or pro team? No one is scouting the 50/70 fields except 13U coaches. No high school, college or pro scout is creating a watch list because some preteen is crushing the ball or smoking hitters from the mound. Is rec baseball that bad in Canada to make you think the way you do?

The LL all-star team my son played on when he was eleven has three players committed to D1's. There were two 11's I suspect will also play D1. That's five D1 players from one LL all-star team.

The best player (biggest, fastest, strongest, big arm) on the team didn't make his high school baseball team. In fact, I never see his name in the paper in any sport. Seems he physically peaked at twelve.

How this team was mismanaged into not winning states and beyond is an amazing story of bad coaching and daddyball. However, the LL all-star team that won states has four potential D1 players.

I could say it was great development and training for my son to catch three developing, future D1 pitchers in LL all-stars. One was a teammate he caught all season. The thing is, my son hasn't caught since 13U. Besides, these pitchers weren't throwing 87-90+ with great movement in LL.

If you think that where you end up has nothing to with what you do to lead up to it, you sure kidding yourself.
Keep spinning anecdotal garbage. Yes rec ball is that bad here and most states I have seen.
If the travel teams keep expending as they have it is obvious that the demand is there. I am sure that there are some sane parents involved.

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The ones that need youth travel ball to improve may survive one more year than they otherwise would have but that is about it. Travel ball can only accelerate the learned skills development but only to the level that innate ability will permit. By the time HS ball comes around the innate abilities are becoming pretty obvious and smoothed out. Somewhere around age 16 years predictions about future success becomes more accurate.

Playing travel or rec for fun is important so you can grow in skills anad the speed of the game. But on the small diamond adult observers should not expect a return on their investment. The players must prove themselves all over again when they step up onto the full sized diamond.

Total garbage.

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I can't quite get my arms around the point to this whole thread. I'm sure all posters here in this thread had all their sons play beyond the rec season at some point up until they're 12 yrs old.

Up to 12, my son played rec, tried out and made the Ripken district all-star team that also played in open tournaments during the summer and Cooperstown at 12. Therefore, he played beyond rec ball, got good coaching and learned what it's like to play with and against ballplayers with advanced skills.

Is there any parent here who's kid played their 15 games of spring rec ball, did noting else baseball related until next spring, play more rec ball and then went on to play HS baseball?

I get the sense there isn't anyone here that has a kid who went this route. Is it possible? I suppose so but I doubt it.

My guess is the ones who have are the players who have that untapped talent and skills that could be refined. There aren't too many of those since these are athletes gifted with special tools who had no interest in playing organized baseball and one day just decided he wanted to try out for the HS team.

I would like to read a post from somebody who's kid did make their HS varsity team that played strictly rec ball.

I can't either.

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Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
If you think that where you end up has nothing to with what you do to lead up to it, you sure kidding yourself.
Keep spinning anecdotal garbage. Yes rec ball is that bad here and most states I have seen.
If the travel teams keep expending as they have it is obvious that the demand is there. I am sure that there are some sane parents involved.

BHD,
You stated that rec ball is bad where you are, so geographically we have to take each thing into consideration.

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If the travel teams keep expending as they have it is obvious that the demand is there. I am sure that there are some sane parents involved.

TPM: I am aware that the quote above is not yours. But taking the astatement at face value, it would mean that there are more rec kids going to make travel teams. But in BHD's areaa, all rec teams suck. So this would mean that the quality of travel ball will go down. Well, in Canada that is. Of course, the lowly rec coaches would also be involved. What a dillema!

Fortunately, I do not have to read his ignorant and hateful diatribes anymore.

You can tell Daque our coaches are all level 2 certified and the travel teams have lost coaching and better player to the elite teams.
Originally elite teams were 18-19U now some have gone to 15U due to demand. The coaching is superior in most cases and usually pro old timers and pro scouts.
How can Daque draw conclusions with his under lying lack of experience in todays environment. I have watched as most have as showcases and elite teams have become the norm. We used to get 50-60 scouts at tournaments and now you are lucky to get a few.
I also resent his loftier than thou attitude toward parents who support their players by putting them in travel ball to give them a better chance at succeeding . In BB very few will go past HS, fewer past college and a minuscule number to MLB .
The one Bios I posted was a guy who was AAA and was MiLB pitcher of the year and he didn't make it. Hung Cho was arguably the best SS I ever watched who dropped out at AAA because he got tired of not advancing. Both these guys played organized travel ball before 10 yo.

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What a dilemma!

Not a dilemma. More kids with potential signing up to play all levels of travel ball at all level. Rec coaches have to get certified and they have to show a level of knowledge to do so.
Most don't bother if their sons don't make a travel team. Many of out travel coaches don't have kids on teams anymore as they have graduated or stopped playing.
One team had Don Colpoys , Don Cageano and afew others . Colpoys was the longest reigning D1 coach at the time. Cageano was a pro coach who left in the spring. Both these gentlemen were in their 70s. Our winter workouts included instruction by pros.

The only conclusion that I can reach from what I read here is that the greatest baseball imaginable must be played in Canada and at the cheapest price. Who knew?

I have never seen anyone in the west play travel baseball for $300 to $500 per year (unless someone else picked up the tab, which I have also seen). And in fact, if paying for college is the goal, I don't know anyone who would be better off spending money on baseball because the amount spent exceeds the amount of nearly any baseball scholarship I have encountered (Stanford or USC and other similarly expensive schools excluded for very large grants -- and since I am paying about half-tuition to send my daughter to USC I have a great sense of the cost of the truly expensive schools). In the vast majority of instances, it would be better to save and invest the money spent on baseball.

In regard to what is garbage, Daque makes all the sense in the world to me. At a minimum, he has done nothing but state his opinion and does not deserve attack. I don't understand where your anger comes from, Bobblehead. Maybe Daque and I are both wrong, but this is from a guy (me) who has experienced every kind of travel baseball that exists (as a parent, coach and administrator) and who has not hesitated to spend many thousands of dollars in the process.

It is fun, but it is also unnecessary until the field gets bigger -- and not even required then, although at this point I am doing nothing other than repeat myself. Talent is the ultimate determining factor, followed by great coaching -- wherever it might be found and hard work).

But to each their own. What we are discussing here are many approaches -- and I have never known a single approach that is the correct one every time.

That is your travel teams which gave way to elite ball. Now $5000 to $10,000.
Did you watch Marcel at ASU. There were more just like him. He also played from an early age on travel teams.
I had a great return on my BB investment otherwise my son was staying here. We spent between 6 and 7 thousand since he was 9 yo.
Believe me I have no anger about this or any other topic I voice strong opinions about. What you call rec may be a high level ball under a misnomer. happen to live in a heavily populated area that provides high level sports especially in hockey and BB. Daque reveals a contempt to wards parents who wish to place their son's on travel teams and that is the basis of his idle musings. He in fact hijacked the thread with his garbage. The original thread was about good and bad experiences with travel ball. To me a mush more worthwhile topic.

Is it a coincidence that we produce some of the top hockey players in the world ? That one of my son's female friends was the top D1 NCAA womens hockey players. It's no coincidence that we have athletes placed all over the USA in Hockey,Rowing, Basketball, Lacrosse volley ball, swimming and so on.
Could it be the early development of our athletes. Look at Russia and other power house countries. They develop their athletes an a very early age. They force their kids to excel.

jemaz: I have blocked viewing posts from three members of this board, at least two of whom are Old Timers which I have concluded is like tenure. That is, it is based on time served rather than the quality of the posts.

I believe that one is so disappointed and angry that his son decided to hang it up. That reflects itself in his rigidity and unwillingness to consider opinions other than his own anad when he gets stuck he difts off topic. He does not accept the concept that innate ability trumps learned skills. So be it.

What amazes me is that coaches with common sense continue to communicate with him. His own mental health would have him ignore my posts but he just cannot help himself.

I know that Canada is different from main sream baseball in the US and perhaps that is a part of the misunderstanding. But them his inconsistancy of positions and failure to address issues raised in a direct manner is a hinderence to constructive communication.

I believe it was Mark Twain who said that he refrained from arguing with fools lest the bystanders could not tell which is the fool.

I imagine this will bring about another innane tirade which I also will not see.

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jemaz: I have blocked viewing posts from three members of this board, at least two of whom are Old Timers which I have concluded is like tenure. That is, it is based on time served rather than the quality of the posts.

I believe that one is so disappointed and angry that his son decided to hang it up. That reflects itself in his rigidity and unwillingness to consider opinions other than his own anad when he gets stuck he difts off topic. He does not accept the concept that innate ability trumps learned skills. So be it.

Another dumb comment.

Even the late great Chris O'Leary couldn't get me to push the ignore button.

Bobblehead:

Marcel failed to last the season at ASU and did not return this year. The Sun Devils ended their season two years ago with their former bullpen catcher at short, because, unfortunately, he was the best they had. If Marcel is the example, and no disrespect meant to him, then I would say definitely it does not matter much where a kid plays.

As far as elite ball and the other terms, at this point I have no idea what you mean. It is not that way here.

Sorry Marcel was drafted.

And yet not a good point in support of your views. Lots of guys get drafted, including several I know who never played on any kind of high-level tournament team and some who actually got cut from their high school teams.

Spare me the buts, and I know guys who.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/...t=number&ft=CT&fv=CA

If Marcel didn't play last half it was becaise he had poor marks but I follwoed him and I didn't notice that.