PanAm,
Don't know where that came from. Don't agrue your points. Must have taken anything I said into a different context.
KellerDad-
I was a player for a team named New Trier Colt in Grand Junction. We didn't get the opportunity to play you guys, but I was picked for the all star game and got a chance to meet those 5 guys. You guys seemed like you were the best team, but the team you lost to, the Jets, knocked us out also in 5th place.
I was scheduled to pitch against you guys in the semis but unfortunately we lost the game prior to that. It would've been a nice experience.
I was a player for a team named New Trier Colt in Grand Junction. We didn't get the opportunity to play you guys, but I was picked for the all star game and got a chance to meet those 5 guys. You guys seemed like you were the best team, but the team you lost to, the Jets, knocked us out also in 5th place.
I was scheduled to pitch against you guys in the semis but unfortunately we lost the game prior to that. It would've been a nice experience.
No Ken I am just as amazed (dismayed) as you are....It's the way things are right now. ESPN is covering high school games these days...Everybody HAS to be a star....I'm getting phone calls from soph's parents wanting to know why their son has not been contacted yet. Seriously...And yet, as I am telling these parents, soooooo many things can happen sooooo many influences...
I thought the Dallas Morning News story on the 28 "World Series" offered these days (from two weeks ago Sunday) was very "right on"...Venacular from 1974....
I thought the Dallas Morning News story on the 28 "World Series" offered these days (from two weeks ago Sunday) was very "right on"...Venacular from 1974....
I think you guys are focusing on a few high-profile examples. There are still many many solid TEAM players -- "EVERYBODY" does not HAVE to be a star, UTPANAM.
I appreciate Ken's reasons for "retiring"...but is seems to me that summmer teams remain a positive experience for most kids trying to reach the next level.
Too much cynicism, IMO. I have heard it said that the fall "showcase" season has become the most important time of the year for talented players --- are we going to blame that on selfish players or their parents?
I appreciate Ken's reasons for "retiring"...but is seems to me that summmer teams remain a positive experience for most kids trying to reach the next level.
Too much cynicism, IMO. I have heard it said that the fall "showcase" season has become the most important time of the year for talented players --- are we going to blame that on selfish players or their parents?
Thousand time reader.. first post..
Along with the internet and television, high school level is in a larger medium of exposure than it has ever been. I remember a neighborhood buddy who would be missing during the summers of 83-85 because he was playing 3B in a series labeled "Mickey Mantle" The only way you knew about if his team played well was we came back for a few games of street ball before school started LOL. The point I am making is if you are 17-18 y/o and you get invited to a major showcase that has a boat load of scouts and possible television coverage how can you not want to experience that? We sit around watching Little League World Series and we type and read year around on the internet about high school baseball players. There would probably not be too many showcases if we didnt create the hype through television or the internet.
I think the showcases are good for college and pro exposure so in my opinion I can't see why a kid wouldn't go to help his future. Now, I also believe that a player and his coach should discuss up front the players intentions on showcases. At this point, the coach can make an accordance with the player or decide not to take him on that team. These kids are under amazing pressure as it is and I doubt many of great to elite players would want to hurt their team or upset their coach.
Final opinion
summer is summer we pound these kids in the fall and spring as it is.
My two cents, thank you
Along with the internet and television, high school level is in a larger medium of exposure than it has ever been. I remember a neighborhood buddy who would be missing during the summers of 83-85 because he was playing 3B in a series labeled "Mickey Mantle" The only way you knew about if his team played well was we came back for a few games of street ball before school started LOL. The point I am making is if you are 17-18 y/o and you get invited to a major showcase that has a boat load of scouts and possible television coverage how can you not want to experience that? We sit around watching Little League World Series and we type and read year around on the internet about high school baseball players. There would probably not be too many showcases if we didnt create the hype through television or the internet.
I think the showcases are good for college and pro exposure so in my opinion I can't see why a kid wouldn't go to help his future. Now, I also believe that a player and his coach should discuss up front the players intentions on showcases. At this point, the coach can make an accordance with the player or decide not to take him on that team. These kids are under amazing pressure as it is and I doubt many of great to elite players would want to hurt their team or upset their coach.
Final opinion
summer is summer we pound these kids in the fall and spring as it is.My two cents, thank you
quote:I think the showcases are good for college and pro exposure so in my opinion I can't see why a kid wouldn't go to help his future. Now, I also believe that a player and his coach should discuss up front the players intentions on showcases. At this point, the coach can make an accordance with the player or decide not to take him on that team. These kids are under amazing pressure as it is and I doubt many of great to elite players would want to hurt their team or upset their coach.
If you play of the top elite teams, this doesn't hold true. In most cases it is the parent making the decision, not the kid. I can assure you that Coach Guthrie not only was clear, but also tried to teach the kids why he felt that way. If a kid makes an agreement to stick to a team for the season, he should not change it mid way just because he is now more of a prospect. There are plenty of fall showcases and tournaments to attend that will provide exposure. Most of the summer events are "ego" events. Whose ego? The parents or the kids? That is the question to ask.
I am not anti showcase. I am anti showcase on a team that demands complete participation. There are many teams out there that allow the kids to go to the showcases. Join one of them. I know that when my son played in Texas, Omar Washington set his schedule to allow showcases.
I think that DBAT summer team (along with Tigers, Dodgers, Mustangs, etc.) are not looked at by some parents as they SHOULD be: These teams compete in a LEAGUE (BBI which is AABC affiliated)with the ultimate goal of reaching the AABC Connie Mack or Mickey Mantle World Series. In other words these organizations are TEAMS in every sense of the definition. They were formed with the intent of obtaining a common team oriented goal - reaching their respective LEAGUE championship. That goal is very clear (or should be) to anyone who joins that team.
With that being said, if a parent wants their son free to come and go (showcases, other tournaments, or even vacations) then they probably should not let their son join a league affiliated team such as DBAT. There are other alternatives out there. There are teams NOT affiliated with any league that basically go around playing tournaments such as SuperSeries or USSSA. It would not be nearly as disruptive in my opinion to come and go from one of these "unaffiliated" teams.
I am speaking to this as a parent of a son who plays with a BBI team (Dallas Dodgers). My son had to pass on a showcase that he really wanted to go to because of a scheduled AABC state tournament. There was NO WAY he was going to miss that tournament because his team was striving for a team goal of making it to the AABC Mickey Mantle World Series.
And I agree with one of the posters who said that it is NOT the kids who are pushing to go to all of these events it is the PARENTS.
With that being said, if a parent wants their son free to come and go (showcases, other tournaments, or even vacations) then they probably should not let their son join a league affiliated team such as DBAT. There are other alternatives out there. There are teams NOT affiliated with any league that basically go around playing tournaments such as SuperSeries or USSSA. It would not be nearly as disruptive in my opinion to come and go from one of these "unaffiliated" teams.
I am speaking to this as a parent of a son who plays with a BBI team (Dallas Dodgers). My son had to pass on a showcase that he really wanted to go to because of a scheduled AABC state tournament. There was NO WAY he was going to miss that tournament because his team was striving for a team goal of making it to the AABC Mickey Mantle World Series.
And I agree with one of the posters who said that it is NOT the kids who are pushing to go to all of these events it is the PARENTS.
Here is the letter I sent to all DBAT players and parents April. Before the summer started...
Parents and Players,
Hope all is well and everyone is enjoying their High School seasons. I have been to many games and have seen most of you. If you haven’t seen me yet this spring, you soon will. I am excited and interested in following the playoffs as many of your teams look like they have a chance to go a long way in post season. Good luck and stay healthy with that.
I am sending this letter out to bring some important issues to light and hopefully to rest soon after. There have been many players and families approached this spring to participate in various venues such as showcases, tournaments, all-star games, camps, college tryouts, and other events along the same lines. You all should be honored to be selected or invited to such events although be cautious in what these events really are. In most professional opinions such as myself, DBAT staff, pro scouts, college coaches, and professional player agents, these venues can be highly over rated and portray a false promotion for players. I have had the opportunity to associate myself with many of these people (pro scouts, college coaches, and agents) to gain a true understanding of what venues can actually benefit our DBAT players.
Which leads me to this. I can appreciate and understand that each family and player wants to allow the best opportunities for their baseball careers to develop at the next level. I believe DBAT can help accomplish this. The schedule and organization that we have worked so hard to provide will surely allow substantial opportunities for DBAT players to be seen by important evaluators.
What I need from players and families is to appreciate the time and effort that everyone associated with DBAT has put forth in preparing for our summer season. I need you to understand that as a coach, I put a schedule and roster together preparing for a run at the Connie Mack World Series in Farmington, New Mexico. This is my goal, DBAT’s goal, and hopefully your goal. This will only be accomplished by full consideration and participation from all DBAT players. I also try to promote individual players in a team atmosphere to prepare young men not only for baseball but the life after baseball. I believe this is only accomplished by maintaining a “team” concept.
In saying this, I will implement policies that will protect DBAT players and the DBAT team effective immediately. As follows…
- All players may attend any venue they deem to be important before and only before July 10th.
- Any event after July 10th may NOT be attended by DBAT players to insure our roster for AABC post season.
- All events intended to participate in before July 10th, must be reported to me Ken Guthrie, no later than May 1st. This will allow DBAT to insure roster moves contingent on absentees.
- All players are expected to be available for the entire post season.
Concerning events such as AFLAC and Area Code Games which will take place during the Connie Mack World Series, I encourage players to accept invitations in the case DBAT does not make it all the way. If DBAT does get the opportunity to accomplish this feat, I would hope all players and families understand exactly how fortunate and successful we will have been and attend this event in full participation.
Hopefully you all will understand where I stand on this. I believe DBAT has put together a special product for the summer. If we all stay on the same page with the “team” concept in mind, I believe everyone will accomplish not only team goals but personal goals as well. If you have any questions or would like to discuss this further please call me.
Thank you,
Ken Guthrie
Parents and Players,
Hope all is well and everyone is enjoying their High School seasons. I have been to many games and have seen most of you. If you haven’t seen me yet this spring, you soon will. I am excited and interested in following the playoffs as many of your teams look like they have a chance to go a long way in post season. Good luck and stay healthy with that.
I am sending this letter out to bring some important issues to light and hopefully to rest soon after. There have been many players and families approached this spring to participate in various venues such as showcases, tournaments, all-star games, camps, college tryouts, and other events along the same lines. You all should be honored to be selected or invited to such events although be cautious in what these events really are. In most professional opinions such as myself, DBAT staff, pro scouts, college coaches, and professional player agents, these venues can be highly over rated and portray a false promotion for players. I have had the opportunity to associate myself with many of these people (pro scouts, college coaches, and agents) to gain a true understanding of what venues can actually benefit our DBAT players.
Which leads me to this. I can appreciate and understand that each family and player wants to allow the best opportunities for their baseball careers to develop at the next level. I believe DBAT can help accomplish this. The schedule and organization that we have worked so hard to provide will surely allow substantial opportunities for DBAT players to be seen by important evaluators.
What I need from players and families is to appreciate the time and effort that everyone associated with DBAT has put forth in preparing for our summer season. I need you to understand that as a coach, I put a schedule and roster together preparing for a run at the Connie Mack World Series in Farmington, New Mexico. This is my goal, DBAT’s goal, and hopefully your goal. This will only be accomplished by full consideration and participation from all DBAT players. I also try to promote individual players in a team atmosphere to prepare young men not only for baseball but the life after baseball. I believe this is only accomplished by maintaining a “team” concept.
In saying this, I will implement policies that will protect DBAT players and the DBAT team effective immediately. As follows…
- All players may attend any venue they deem to be important before and only before July 10th.
- Any event after July 10th may NOT be attended by DBAT players to insure our roster for AABC post season.
- All events intended to participate in before July 10th, must be reported to me Ken Guthrie, no later than May 1st. This will allow DBAT to insure roster moves contingent on absentees.
- All players are expected to be available for the entire post season.
Concerning events such as AFLAC and Area Code Games which will take place during the Connie Mack World Series, I encourage players to accept invitations in the case DBAT does not make it all the way. If DBAT does get the opportunity to accomplish this feat, I would hope all players and families understand exactly how fortunate and successful we will have been and attend this event in full participation.
Hopefully you all will understand where I stand on this. I believe DBAT has put together a special product for the summer. If we all stay on the same page with the “team” concept in mind, I believe everyone will accomplish not only team goals but personal goals as well. If you have any questions or would like to discuss this further please call me.
Thank you,
Ken Guthrie
Mr. Guthrie,
I would like to apologize for the negative comments I made toward you on this thread. I was very angry when you called out the players in question by name, and I said some things that maybe I shouldn't. I am still mad at the way that you went about doing this but I will choose my words more carefully in the future.
That being said please refrain from personal attacks on minors. You are the adult here and should set the example.
I would like to apologize for the negative comments I made toward you on this thread. I was very angry when you called out the players in question by name, and I said some things that maybe I shouldn't. I am still mad at the way that you went about doing this but I will choose my words more carefully in the future.
That being said please refrain from personal attacks on minors. You are the adult here and should set the example.
quote:Originally posted by txdad06:
Mr. Guthrie,
I would like to apologize for the negative comments I made toward you on this thread. I was very angry when you called out the players in question by name, and I said some things that maybe I shouldn't. I am still mad at the way that you went about doing this but I will choose my words more carefully in the future.
That being said please refrain from personal attacks on minors. You are the adult here and should set the example.
Once again, I did not attack anyone personally. Just stating the cold hard facts. Seems you do not have the focus on the issue to speak. I stated facts, hard facts. No attacks.
Ken, your letter pretty much explains everything in black and white - no room for any misunderstanding. It is really is a poor reflection on parents and players that you have to send out such a letter. To me it is obvious what DBAT and other similar teams are supposed to be all about. But I guess these days you cannot assume that anyone understands what a "team" is without laying it out for them like they were a young child.
My son's team had a player just up and leave the team right before the Regional Tournament in Houston because he was upset about playing time (or lack of in regard to his fielding position). He was one of our top pitchers and he never thought about the effect his leaving would have on the pitching needs for the team in this important tournament. He never talked to the coach or gave any notice that he would not make the trip. I called the dad and told him that I thought it was one of the most selfish things I have ever seen in baseball in a long time. This kid was the starting SS on a state championship high school team and he just was not going to play on the summer team if the spot was not handed to him. I asked the dad if he ever thought about telling the kid that if he wanted more playing time in the field then maybe he should earn it. In any event he cost the team 25% of our pitching and 13 other boys suffered greatly for it.
My son's team had a player just up and leave the team right before the Regional Tournament in Houston because he was upset about playing time (or lack of in regard to his fielding position). He was one of our top pitchers and he never thought about the effect his leaving would have on the pitching needs for the team in this important tournament. He never talked to the coach or gave any notice that he would not make the trip. I called the dad and told him that I thought it was one of the most selfish things I have ever seen in baseball in a long time. This kid was the starting SS on a state championship high school team and he just was not going to play on the summer team if the spot was not handed to him. I asked the dad if he ever thought about telling the kid that if he wanted more playing time in the field then maybe he should earn it. In any event he cost the team 25% of our pitching and 13 other boys suffered greatly for it.
I think that everyone has made their point on this subject.
I am just here to reiterate that the number one rule of this site (as defined by the owner to me) is that we don't mention kids in a negative way. Fact or not. There may be exceptions. Such as a newspaper article being printed.
One of the problems with a website message board is that oft times we only get one point of view.
Regardless of how I feel on the subject, I am forced to abide by the rules. (which is not always easy)
I have no problem with this thread except where it goets to personalities and not discussing the triple crown or commitment. Let us just keep out of personalities please. This is not singled towards anybody , but everybody, including me. I have my opinions on the matter as well.
I am just here to reiterate that the number one rule of this site (as defined by the owner to me) is that we don't mention kids in a negative way. Fact or not. There may be exceptions. Such as a newspaper article being printed.
One of the problems with a website message board is that oft times we only get one point of view.
Regardless of how I feel on the subject, I am forced to abide by the rules. (which is not always easy)
I have no problem with this thread except where it goets to personalities and not discussing the triple crown or commitment. Let us just keep out of personalities please. This is not singled towards anybody , but everybody, including me. I have my opinions on the matter as well.
Bighit,
I have printed in a previous thread, I will refrain from using names on your request. Although I think using a name in the context of fact should be acceptable. Although the board does not share these beliefs, so then I will respect the rules or I won't play. Fair enough?
As for my further posts, some will bring heated discussion. That's fine. But it's time to bring some serious issues to light holding back nothing.
I have printed in a previous thread, I will refrain from using names on your request. Although I think using a name in the context of fact should be acceptable. Although the board does not share these beliefs, so then I will respect the rules or I won't play. Fair enough?
As for my further posts, some will bring heated discussion. That's fine. But it's time to bring some serious issues to light holding back nothing.
Mr. Guthrie what is your motovation in doing this? Why do you feel the need to bring up heated discussions and hold back nothing.
Why would a man with your incredible influence feel the need to go down this road? Have you been so wronged that this is your way of getting even?
Why would a man with your incredible influence feel the need to go down this road? Have you been so wronged that this is your way of getting even?
I think the letter is a good start but not the only solution in my opinion. I think a verbal is still needed. If a player approaches the coach at the beginning of the summer and states he has some showcases he wants attend I do not think thats too much to ask. I am sure the coaches also ask at the beginning of the summer to come to them if there will a hitch in the schedule. If it bothers you that much as a coach tell them its either ok or sorry you can't play on this team let me help you get on a team thats a little more flexible. I think summer coachs would have to be extremely patient due to the come and go of the kids. If the come and go upsets you as a coach maybe your true calling may be quiting you regular season job and become a high school coach.
My two cents
My two cents
I don't see why KG, or any other poster, can't address controversial issues on this board, provided they are pertinent to baseball and are not a personal attack on someone.
There are many issues surrounding competitive youth baseball. If discussion by those who have experienced some of these issues results in all of us becoming better informed, that is a good thing, I think.
There are many issues surrounding competitive youth baseball. If discussion by those who have experienced some of these issues results in all of us becoming better informed, that is a good thing, I think.
- Posters will be expected to maintain basic courtesy toward the opinions of others. Please avoid flame wars or anything you KNOW will cause others to flame (aka "flame bait").
We expect members to agree or disagree in a civil manner. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
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I am not associated with this discussion in any way. I am however an avid reader and new poster. One mention of the situation was enough. We all understand the issue. To drag it out and go on and on about it is not benefiting anyone involved. The more that is added to the situation the less credibility it receives.
In light of the message board rules as outlined above. I feel that instigating and pursuing this matter is in direct violation of the intended use of this board.
As coaches we all know the situation of today's athletes and the summer program issues that arise every year. It is unfortunate; however it is the bi-product of what we do.
In conclusion, it was wrong, it was self serving. The people it affected were let down and are frustrated that the team’s top performance was hampered. To drag it out and continue to rehash it seems a bit self serving as well. All involved know the situation and the type of reputation it will permeate from this point forward for the people involved. My advice is to take the high road.
quote:Originally posted by txdad06:
Mr. Guthrie what is your motovation in doing this? Why do you feel the need to bring up heated discussions and hold back nothing.
Why would a man with your incredible influence feel the need to go down this road? Have you been so wronged that this is your way of getting even?
Simply to express what I think is wrong and/or right about the players and game today. Simple as that. This is not about me, this is about the youth and their game of baseball as a whole.
You are the one making it a personal situation.
Who am I getting even with anyway? Folks on this board. Come on, get real. I am simply stating a fact for discussion. Obviously some find in worth talking about.
NO! YOU MADE IT PERSONAL WHEN YOU THREW TWO OF THE TOP PLAYERS IN HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL UNDER THE BUS, YOU DID THIS TO TARNISH THEIR NAME, IF NOT THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE CALLED THEM BY NAME.
I am going to take outsiders advise and take the high road.
I am going to take outsiders advise and take the high road.
quote:Originally posted by penja:
I think the letter is a good start but not the only solution in my opinion. I think a verbal is still needed. If a player approaches the coach at the beginning of the summer and states he has some showcases he wants attend I do not think thats too much to ask. I am sure the coaches also ask at the beginning of the summer to come to them if there will a hitch in the schedule. If it bothers you that much as a coach tell them its either ok or sorry you can't play on this team let me help you get on a team thats a little more flexible. I think summer coachs would have to be extremely patient due to the come and go of the kids. If the come and go upsets you as a coach maybe your true calling may be quiting you regular season job and become a high school coach.
My two cents
Seriously, I hope you don't think that verbage didn't go with the letter.
My face is still blue from trying to explain the expectations.
As far as posters wanting this discussion to stop, that is rediculous in my opinion.
I will simply continue to state the facts. Nothing less than facts. If that is not tolerated and I am banned from the board so be it. It will be just another case of turning the cheek in protection of whats wrong. Over and over it happens. No one will stand for what is right today. Well, I did...and I will. If some don't like it, too bad.
Ken Guthrie,
I'm the owner of this site who BigHit15 referred to when he stated, correctly: "...the number one rule of this site (as defined by the owner to me) is that we don't mention kids in a negative way."
99 percent of the people reading this thread, including me, cannot know all of the facts - what conversations were had, whether permission was granted, whether unusual flight delays happened, or whether it's a basic case of wrong decisions. But those details are not the point of my post. The rule is:
DO NOT come on this forum to bash a player. Plain and simple. DO NOT come on this forum to bash a player.
Julie Sigfrinius
jas@pclink.com
I'm the owner of this site who BigHit15 referred to when he stated, correctly: "...the number one rule of this site (as defined by the owner to me) is that we don't mention kids in a negative way."
99 percent of the people reading this thread, including me, cannot know all of the facts - what conversations were had, whether permission was granted, whether unusual flight delays happened, or whether it's a basic case of wrong decisions. But those details are not the point of my post. The rule is:
DO NOT come on this forum to bash a player. Plain and simple. DO NOT come on this forum to bash a player.
Julie Sigfrinius
jas@pclink.com
quote:Originally posted by txdad06:
NO! YOU MADE IT PERSONAL WHEN YOU THREW TWO OF THE TOP PLAYERS IN HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL UNDER THE BUS, YOU DID THIS TO TARNISH THEIR NAME, IF NOT THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE CALLED THEM BY NAME.
I am going to take outsiders advise and take the high road.
Take the road you choose. I choose to simply state facts. Can you argue that point. If it tarnishes the name then the premeditated decision should have been thought out more.
quote:Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Ken Guthrie,
I'm the owner of this site who BigHit15 referred to. He is absolutely correct in stating: "...the number one rule of this site (as defined by the owner to me) is that we don't mention kids in a negative way."
99 percent of the people reading this thread, including me, cannot know all of the facts - what conversations were had, whether permission was granted, whether unusual flight delays happened, whatever. But those details are not the point of my post. The rule is:
DO NOT come on this forum to bash a player. Plain and simple. DO NOT come on this forum to bash a player.
Julie Sigfrinius
jas@pclink.com
If you look back on this thread you will see I have taken the names off myself. I have also stated I will no longer state names.
If you are asking me not to state the facts or opinions (leaving names out) then I will not. If you ban me for doing so, so be it.
quote:I don't see why KG, or any other poster, can't address controversial issues on this board, provided they are pertinent to baseball and are not a personal attack on someone.
There are many issues surrounding competitive youth baseball. If discussion by those who have experienced some of these issues results in all of us becoming better informed, that is a good thing, I think
T-Bird, address any subject you like. Just keep it within the framework of the rules. No kids bashed, no flaming, baiting, personal attacks. This is a free "hobby" site and free speech is what the owner says it is. As an agent of the owner, I will protect her rights. Read my last post on the subject.
There are 2 sides to every story.
Frankly it is one thing to say that you don't like something. It is another to question a kids character on a website. There are 2 sides to every story.
Ken has said that he would not do it again.
Well so much for my very articulate response on taking the High Road.
As for the person and parties that were wronged in this situation, I think you have a distorted vision of doing what's best for the game.
As for the parties that did not see the big picture of the Team, it is a dissapointment that you would let a team down.
I am nuetral to this and see both sides but as stated befiore, dragging it out facts or not, is absurd.
I am getting a clearer picture of a vendeta, by not taking the high road. "To each His own"
And by the way did you know it was another sunny day in the Metro today? Pull your head out of the sand and enjoy life as much as you can!
After all it is a game that is played by people and coached by people. Perfection is unobtainable.....That's why they call it "Baseball the Great Game"
As for the person and parties that were wronged in this situation, I think you have a distorted vision of doing what's best for the game.
As for the parties that did not see the big picture of the Team, it is a dissapointment that you would let a team down.
I am nuetral to this and see both sides but as stated befiore, dragging it out facts or not, is absurd.
I am getting a clearer picture of a vendeta, by not taking the high road. "To each His own"
And by the way did you know it was another sunny day in the Metro today? Pull your head out of the sand and enjoy life as much as you can!
After all it is a game that is played by people and coached by people. Perfection is unobtainable.....That's why they call it "Baseball the Great Game"
I think we all get the picture now. I knew if we waited long enough we would see the "real reason"
With each post it becomes clearer. "premeditated"????? What an angry statement, fact or not. I understand you frustration and have dealt with many a parent where I thought there actions were "premeditated", only to find out I needed to re-evaluate why I was doing what I was doing.......Time will help in seeing the big picture from both sides.
You can't undue the damage, but an understanding will eventually come over you and you will come to realize that what makes us so upset is the need, the drive and the desire to compete at the highest level possible. If you don't have one of these qualities we should be at the lake drinking a beer and enjoying something else.
The intensity that is permeated at the elite level is something special. As coaches and parents we are at the heart of it. That is my friend "why we do it". It's like being an adrenalin junky, we need it, have to have it, want it and demand it. That's why we do it.
Time will heal the wounds, sometimes people are not forgiven and move on, closing that chapter in their lives. Sometimes repairs are made and an understanding of actions and words make people closer.
It's been interesting hearing the comments. Obviously 2 sides to this one, and for some it's an extension of the competition that we need.
Once again, my advice is to take the high road. The damage has been done on both side of this issue.
Hope I haven't worn you out with my info or my thoughts.
Did you know I saw rain cloud yesterday? Rain, in Dallas, in August.....simply amazing
quote:Take the road you choose. I choose to simply state facts. Can you argue that point. If it tarnishes the name then the premeditated decision should have been thought out more.
With each post it becomes clearer. "premeditated"????? What an angry statement, fact or not. I understand you frustration and have dealt with many a parent where I thought there actions were "premeditated", only to find out I needed to re-evaluate why I was doing what I was doing.......Time will help in seeing the big picture from both sides.
You can't undue the damage, but an understanding will eventually come over you and you will come to realize that what makes us so upset is the need, the drive and the desire to compete at the highest level possible. If you don't have one of these qualities we should be at the lake drinking a beer and enjoying something else.
The intensity that is permeated at the elite level is something special. As coaches and parents we are at the heart of it. That is my friend "why we do it". It's like being an adrenalin junky, we need it, have to have it, want it and demand it. That's why we do it.
Time will heal the wounds, sometimes people are not forgiven and move on, closing that chapter in their lives. Sometimes repairs are made and an understanding of actions and words make people closer.
It's been interesting hearing the comments. Obviously 2 sides to this one, and for some it's an extension of the competition that we need.
Once again, my advice is to take the high road. The damage has been done on both side of this issue.
Hope I haven't worn you out with my info or my thoughts.
Did you know I saw rain cloud yesterday? Rain, in Dallas, in August.....simply amazing
Ken,
First, let me say that you have a good reputation as a baseball person and certainly recruited and coached a fine team over the last 2 years; arguably the best pitching staff in the country. Recognizing there are always two sides to a story, I don’t disagree with your basic premise but really question some of your decisions.
I thought your letter describing DBat’s goals was on target but did not address, in writing, the results of violating team rules. If you have rules, then you must be willing take the consequences of violating them and be willing to enforce them. It seemed like you evaded laying out the consequences in your letter. A few questions:
1- Did you anticipate this kind of conflict and not want to deal with it up front because of who the player was?
2- Why didn’t you make the difficult decision of dropping the player from your roster once the rules were violated?
3- Is this like your criticism of MLB and amateur baseball coddling to stars and not teaching ethics and responsibility?
4- Would you have dropped a back-up player?
You have often written on here about how you are coaching to teach young men not only about baseball, but also about life. I wholeheartedly support those goals. It seems to me you had a few options in this case.
It seems you had at least 3 other options:
1- If you decided to let him pitch, why not bring him in the 2nd or 3rd inning after he had enough time to warm up.
2- You could have held him back for the next game. If you lost, it seems to me that the TEAM ramifications of the player’s decision to attend the event would have hit home better than the excuse that he was effected by he lack of warm-up time.
3- Not played him.
I’m also not sure why you felt the need to air the specifics of this sitution on this site. Had you started a thread using generalities about your beliefs, I’m sure most of us would have understood.
Sorry for being so long-winded.
JMHO
Also, just a suggestion; stop using flame bait like “all mighty Premeir Mustangs Carpenter” or "All State" ****".
First, let me say that you have a good reputation as a baseball person and certainly recruited and coached a fine team over the last 2 years; arguably the best pitching staff in the country. Recognizing there are always two sides to a story, I don’t disagree with your basic premise but really question some of your decisions.
I thought your letter describing DBat’s goals was on target but did not address, in writing, the results of violating team rules. If you have rules, then you must be willing take the consequences of violating them and be willing to enforce them. It seemed like you evaded laying out the consequences in your letter. A few questions:
1- Did you anticipate this kind of conflict and not want to deal with it up front because of who the player was?
2- Why didn’t you make the difficult decision of dropping the player from your roster once the rules were violated?
3- Is this like your criticism of MLB and amateur baseball coddling to stars and not teaching ethics and responsibility?
4- Would you have dropped a back-up player?
You have often written on here about how you are coaching to teach young men not only about baseball, but also about life. I wholeheartedly support those goals. It seems to me you had a few options in this case.
quote:“Oh, on a side note. All-State ***** ******** left for Cape-Code showcase for entire week. Finally showed up 15 minutes before our final game.”
It seems you had at least 3 other options:
1- If you decided to let him pitch, why not bring him in the 2nd or 3rd inning after he had enough time to warm up.
2- You could have held him back for the next game. If you lost, it seems to me that the TEAM ramifications of the player’s decision to attend the event would have hit home better than the excuse that he was effected by he lack of warm-up time.
3- Not played him.
I’m also not sure why you felt the need to air the specifics of this sitution on this site. Had you started a thread using generalities about your beliefs, I’m sure most of us would have understood.
Sorry for being so long-winded.
JMHO
Also, just a suggestion; stop using flame bait like “all mighty Premeir Mustangs Carpenter” or "All State" ****".
For the benifit of the kids and my time....
Case closed.
Facts are facts, like them or not, but they are what they are.
I apologize if any harm was done to a players reputation due to my writings. Just trying to shed some light on what is thought upon in our perfect baseball community.
Again, case closed.
Case closed.
Facts are facts, like them or not, but they are what they are.
I apologize if any harm was done to a players reputation due to my writings. Just trying to shed some light on what is thought upon in our perfect baseball community.
Again, case closed.
Bravo.....
I think that was a nice move. Good luck with all you do.
I think that was a nice move. Good luck with all you do.
Ditto!
Best of luck with the family and the new home!
Best of luck with the family and the new home!
Well, in fairness to those affected I hope they would give their facts, too...
I dont, let it end here.
Concerning the CM regional tournament, the impact of this situation is not obvious. Unless the DBAT guy throws a shutout, they still lose to the Tigers in the semi-finals. I know no one wants to do anything but speculate on the "gamble" taken in game 1. Having said that, I think Ken's points are clear -- he has made them in other threads as well.
A player "defending" his actions would not benefit this discussion. I agree with DP2005.
JMO.
A player "defending" his actions would not benefit this discussion. I agree with DP2005.
JMO.
Yeah, but I wonder if Ken can say "Under Achievers"????
Doug -- I gave you credit for NOT using that phrase!!! Now, I take it back. 
Panther Dad,
I think Doug was quoting Ken from a May thread he started about a high school team.
I think Doug was quoting Ken from a May thread he started about a high school team.
Indeed he was -- but he could have STILL let it go!
I've let it go. I could have added a huge amount to this thread, but I bit my tongue and let it go.
Keller Dad,
That had to be the funniest thing I have read on this board. I give you credit. I don't care who you are, that was funny.
That had to be the funniest thing I have read on this board. I give you credit. I don't care who you are, that was funny.