Try Outs

I can't give you advice on how to run tryouts or structure your program but I will chime in on how to handle cuts.  Do not do it by posting a list.  This is probably the most cruel way to announce a team.  Think about little Joey who had his heart set on making the team.  He, like the rest of the kids, are standing in the hallway waiting for you to put up the list.  As soon as its posted they all run over to look at the list.  All his friends make it but he does not.  He is heart broken and gets a little teary eyed.  He is going to have a hard time living down that moment of embarrassment.  

 

Instead the coaches need to man up and talk directly with the kids.  I know it can get uncomfortable at times but its the best thing to do.  At this meeting you should be straight forward and lead with "I'm sorry you did not make" or "congratulations and welcome to the team".  Do not wait until the end of the meeting to tell the kids.  After telling a kid he is cut you should be prepared to tell them why they were cut and what they need to improve on to try to make the team the next year.  If you feel they are not cut out for your program in the long run let them know that.  Don't lend them false hope.  No matter who you cut they are going to be crushed.  Some let on more the others.  Be prepared to let them spend time in your office to compose themselves before you send them on their way.  Remember their friends and family are outside waiting for them so its going to be tough on them if they were cut.  

 

Also, our school talks to the kids as a group right before cuts.  They have a no talking about who made the team or who didn't while you are still in the school.  You are to walk out of the meeting and keep your emotions to yourself.  Once you leave the school you can then start figuring out who made the team but they don't want kids celebrating in front of those who did not make it.

 

 

 

 

PatrickW - Good on you for seeking some input on this. There are many terrific and knowledgable HS Coaches here who will hopefully give you some strong nuts-and-bolts answers to your specific questions.

 

I would just encourage you to take any and all input you get here plus seek out additional guidance from other experienced coaches that you might know and from your AD (not clear what your role is in the program, sounds like Asst. Coach?). It's just that you are about to cut kids from HS rosters, and you're asking how to hold a good try out... Hits me a little strangely. You want to give kids the most fair and openly competitive, evenhanded try out possible... I feel like you owe them that prior to cutting a kid.  Anyway, I get it... You can only afford to keep so many so you have to make tough decisions. Again, good on you for taking it seriously and seeking some best practices guidance.

 

Ps - I'm assuming this is HS program and not club program.

Our HS association does not allow rosters/cut lists to be posted.  The coach has to privately notify each player.

BTW in my earlier reply I should have made it clear that the discussion is with each kid in private not as a group.

First cuts this week at son's high school.  Coach told the kids to come see him if they want to discuss it. There will be a list posted by lunchtime on the day of the cuts.

As far as running tryouts I'm not one to say which way it should be done.  When my son played HS ball, the first day or so was a combined tryout (JV and Varsity).  Coaches would observe everyone.  Eventually, the players were seperated into JV candidates and Varsity candidates(no freshman team) and it went from there.

 

As to the cuts, the current coach did not post a list - at least he didn't when my son was there.  He would call each player into his office individually to tell them whether they made the team or not.

 

As to inclement weather, during my son's junior year, the tryouts were held in the parking lot and in the gym due to 8"-10" of snow blanketing the field.  My son said it made for some interesting ball bounces.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Figured I would pass this along as well.  Again, Im not a coach, but in our HS here's how tryouts are handled.  We have 3000+ students.  Frosh A&B teams (15 kids each), Sophomore Team (20 kids or so), JV Team (18 kids), Varsity Team (18 kids).   JV team is made up of Sophomores and Jrs.   Frosh tryout as a group, Sophomore's as a group (unless a kid is invited to tryout with the Varsity) and Jrs and Srs tryout as one group.

 

My son is a frosh this year so here is what he has told me about tryouts so far...

 

There is a summer camp for the incoming frosh.  The coaches are already watching kids here and making decisions before the actual tryouts.  We are in IL so tryouts are held inside.  They break the group of kids down into about 4 kids per group.  

 

On day 1 its infielding.  Each kid gets about 6 balls at 3rd, and 6th at short.  Some are slow rollers.  In addition each kid is thrown 4 "pop ups".  They use a radar gun to time the throw off the crow hop.  

 

Day 2 is pitcher and catchers.  Pitchers throw 6 fastballs, 6 change ups and 3 breaking balls.  They use a radar gun to time the pitches.  Not sure what they do with the catchers.

 

Day 3 is the 60 yard dash.

 

Day 4 is hitting.  Not sure how this is handled as today is day 4.  First cuts are on Day 4.

 

Day 5 combines all the above for the kids on the fence.  Final cuts are after Day 5.

 

Today is day 4 and cuts.  I am hoping my kid gets to keep playing.

 

 

Hi Patrick,

We have lots of winter sports kids that come out late so our timeline usually does not allow for cleanly defined try-out and cut dates.  Sometimes, there are a few waves.  We communicate to kids that try-outs are on-going and all things are considered, including LY performance, summer program performance, winter conditioning and practices.  We try to prepare the group for what to expect as winter sports kids are integrated.  We will have a few days of assessments.  We have adjacent V and JV fields, so some of this is done combined and some on separate fields.  During these days, all V and JV coaches will rotate and evaluate/rate each player on measurables with a scale of 1-10 on the following...

Fielding -

   Footwork, range, fielding mechanics, throwing mechanics, arm strength

 

Hitting -

   Bunting, Opposite field hitting, quality contact, power, swing mechanics

 

Game awareness

  general score on game instinct/knowledge

 

Running -

   60 yd, Home-to-first times

 

Game awareness

 

Then we combine and average out scores for each player.  It is a lengthy process but gives us documentation if any decisions are questioned as well as points of discussion for talking to players who are cut.  Sometimes, we'll need to do it again with a new winter sport group coming in.  For years that numbers dictate no cuts, we don't go thru the formal process but will still have these discussions among coaches for squad splits.  There are far more dynamics in place for that than for cuts.

 

HC will quietly pull kids aside at the end of a practice and talk to them face-to-face, one at a time, thank them for their efforts, give an honest evaluation and feedback for what they need to work on.  There usually aren't many surprises on either side but it doesn't make it easier, particularly for the kid.  We do it as respectfully as possible.

 

 

 

When my son was in high school ...

 

I believe the teams were mostly prepicked. The kids had fall ball and winter workouts to show what they had. My son played fall ball for the school soph year. He won a starting position between his jv work frosh year and soph fall ball. Spring tryouts were a formality. 

 

The first day was done like a showcase. The kids took grounders at third and flies from right throwing to third. They took ten swings. Pitchers only threw in the pen. Pitchers were gunned. Sixties were timed. After the first day they were divided into prospective varsity players and the rest. Anyone sent to the jv/frosh group shouldn't have been surprised. So no explanations were needed yet. When my son was a freshman, even though it was close to a done deal he would play jv he tried out with the varsity the entire tryout.

 

The next two days were BP, bullpens and scrimmages. I have no idea what the jv/frosh tryout involved. Then teams were formed. This was when players were informed what team they were on, the opportunity to play or if a player was being cut and why. Every participant had a private session with the coaching staff. There were a couple of kids assigned to jv who were called up to varsity before the season started. This procedure was a warning something wasn't right like the condition the player showed up in or attitude. 

 

 

At my son's HS they post the teams on-line over the weekend.  At least then, the kids can look from home without their friends looking on.  

My son's school has three teams: freshman, JV, and Varsity.  The amount of kids they keep varies year to year, but it is usually in the 60 range for all teams, with freshman having the most.  Juniors can not play JV in his school.

 

Try outs start next Monday and conclude on Saturday.  This is for the JV and Varsity teams only.  Freshman to Seniors can try out for these teams.  Freshman team try outs are two weeks after the JV and Varsity teams.  

 

The coaches call the players in one at a time on the last day to inform them which team they will play on or if they are cut.

 

In a friend of my son's school, they post the roster info online in a secure area and players can check their status from home.

 

 

 

 

 

When I was head coach in KY I would do a three day tryouts.  First day was more geared to skills and running tests.  We would instruct them as coaches to check to see if they were coachable.  Would they at least attempt to try to do something we tell them to or blow us off.  Plus we get to see their skills at that point to see if they are at least athletic.  

 

Second day was usually in our indoor hitting "facility" (an old pig barn we could hang up nets).  Little bit of instruction but really just wanted to see how well they hit.  This is also where our indoor mounds were so anybody wanting to try out for pitching could at this time.

 

Third day was ran more like a MLB tryout camp style but usually without hitting because we were on a parking lot due to the field being soaked.

 

After the third day tryouts we went back into the school and my coaches and I would do one last talk over the kids we were not 100% about.  By this point we knew who were definite keeps and cuts but wanted to hash out the fence riders.  While we were doing this the kids are changing back into street clothes.  After we finish this meeting we then call everyone in individually to let them know their fate.  I hate posting lists and joe87 nailed it as to why posting lists is chicken$%&#.  I'm a big fan of getting these kid to learn how to wear big boy pants and become men but they still should be allowed to keep their dignity.  The situation joe87 posted about kid breaking down in the hallway did happen to me my first year.  Kid was terrible and deserved to be cut but he loved baseball.  List was posted and he lost it in the hallway.  Kids were laughing at him and looking at him.  I don't care how bad a person is at any sport or activity they don't deserve to have their dignity taken from them.  It's been 16 or 17 years since that happened and I still feel bad about it.  I feel bad typing about it right now but hopefully someone will learn from it.  Don't post lists. Ever - be a man and talk to them.

 

When we pulled them in we told them one of three things.  1) you are cut and here is why.  Please try out again next year after you work on these areas.  2) you have made the team and here is what we think you will do for us this year.  But if you outperform the other people in your position then you can earn playing time.  3) you have earned a week's extension for a tryout.  We still want to see more out of them in order to make up our minds.  Sometimes we would tell them once winter sports guys came out they would be trying out against them.

 

Keep them in your office until they are ready to walk out.  It doesn't matter how long it takes to tell these kids if they made it or not.  The dignity is more important.  Luckily, it never ran super long nor did any parents complain for having to wait.

Oh BTW - we had a varsity team that had about 15 - 17 guys.  JV team with 16 - 18 guys made up of the best juniors, sophomores and freshmen.  Then a freshman team made up of 7th, 8th and freshmen.  It was rare but sometimes we would have an 8th grader on JV.  If we did they started on the freshmen team for 3 or 4 games to let them have success and then move them up to earn that playing time.  They always ended up starting within a few games of being moved up.

I have the great fortune to coach at several schools of all sizes and make ups.  I have been head coach at a 3000+ school running 3/4 teams to a HS with 120 students and 13 players in the program.... and I have run a tryout at all of them (small school we called it an evaluation).  Either way it has worked wonders especially with parents. Most kids know who can play and who can not.

 

We usually had 5 categories and set up a rubric to score them.  We do throwing accuracy, fielding, hitting,  arm speed, and sprint times. Then we add them all up. I then post the results from each event. When you can give them tangible evidence of where they are compared to the others, it is hard to argue with when it shows out of 80 players your arm speed ranks you 79th.

 

Cutting players is one of the hardest thing to do for me as a coach.  If I have to cut a kid I will bring him in and talk to him one on one and let him know why and specific things he will have to do to improve those things and make the team the following year. Posting a list for cuts if the easy way out for a coach.

d8, do you have sheets that you use for the evaluation?  Do you give them grades 1-5? 1-10?  For hitting, do you break it up into smaller categories? like bunting, contact, power? etc?

 

Thanks

Interesting story on cuts. About twenty years ago I was the pitching coach at a private academy in Tennessee with a big baseball program. There were a lot of kids trying out. We did private meeting as suggested above. I had the pitchers. I called a kid into the office and looked at my sheet. Looked up and said, "Congrats. You're on the team." Only then did I realize that this was a kid that was supposed to be cut. I went and talked to the head coach and we decided to add him to the bottom of the roster. This was a junior who hadn't shown a whole lot at JV and we didn't let juniors pass on to JV, so his high school career would have been over. I didn't tell him this story until the day before the state championship game his senior year when he was our #2 starter and slated for the game. he went on to play at an NAIA school that is now NCAA D-1. I always wondered if he would have given up baseball if I had read the sheet right.

I just use a spread sheet to keep track and add up the totals.

 

I usually use a scale from 1-5, but adjust it to what fits your needs.  I have not broken down hitting into different groups, but that may not be a bad idea. Scoring it like we do take into account everything, but bunting.

 

Our hitting scale is set up something like this. You can give between 5-10 cuts for all players depending on what you need to evaluate.

 

0pts....swing and miss

1-2pts....weak ground ball/pop up

3-4pts.....hard hit gb/ deep fly

5pts.......line drive/hr

 

Throwing accuracy we have done a couple different ways, but this way seems to work the best/easiest for us.... All players throw from 3rd to 1st (about 130ft) to a sock net set up at 1st base. We place the ball on the ground and the player picks it up and throws.

 

0pts....miss net

1-2pt.....horrible throw but hits net ex...4hops and rolls, etc

2-3pt.....good throw but one hops net

4pts.... hits net but not in hole

5pts.....hits hole in sock net

 

For our fielding we look for what we want our players to do defensively when fielding...body position, foot work, etc. and then score them on a scale of 1-5 as well.

 

We run 60 times and have them throw on the radar gun... 

 

We then rank them 1 to how ever many players you have for each event.  We then total the five categories and low score wins.  

 

We also have all players try-out together.  It lets the younger guys know what they have to do. Doing this also seems to help those player and parents that think they should be on the varsity see how they stack up against the varsity players. Having something on paper really helps when talking to players and parents about how they or their son stacks up.  Also, my older players get pretty competitive about it 'cause they want bragging rites. 

 

Anyway, this has worked for me. Hope it helps. If you need anything else, let me know.