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I’ve been entering some data to do stats for a friend of mine’s 10YO team. Its been a looooong time since I’ve tried to use someone else’s book at all, let alone tried to pull data out of it, and thought I’d share a couple things I noticed. A couple of things I saw were just flat out bad technique, but others were just quirky things that made it tough. And what’s neat is, I actually got a couple neat ideas ya’ll might find as interesting as I did. This is a Glover’s book.

This first one you might find difficult depending on what book you use. Marking the pitches by the number of the pitch rather than just a mark as a strike or a ball. IOW, the 1st pitch is 1, the next pitch 2, etc., and you just put them in either the strike or ball column.

I’ve been doing that for years, so when I saw that done by this SK, I thought wow, there’s a heap of data I’ll be able to get. She’d mark foul balls in the 2 strike boxes with an ‘f’, then any fouls after 2 strikes with just a mark. I have to be honest, at 1st I thought it would be a real pain to try to interpret which pitch what which because there was no number there, but after getting used to it. its actually a pretty cool way to mark foul strikes as opposed to just strikes, and I’ll prolly incorporate it myself from now on, just so I can track different kinds of strikes better.

Another really neat thing, at least from the standpoint of trying to use someone else’s book is, she marked outs with a pink pen, but everything else with pencil. Like I said, it was pretty neat for me because it made it easy to pick data out, but I honestly don’t know that I’d be able to do it myself.

Because of all the other things I mark and track, I get the feeling there’d be far too many pink things marked than there should be, and I’d never use a pen in any case. Red pencil lead maybe, but when she did make a mistake, which happens to us all, not being able to erase the pen made it really look scrubby sometimes.

Prolly the worst thing was the way she marked errors, and if you do this, ya better stop! Lets say there were runners on 1st and 2nd, and the batter reaches 1st on an E-5. She’d draw the line from home to 1st, then mark the E-5. But then she’d mark the runner going from 2nd to 3rd as advancing on an E-5, and the same for the runner going from 1st to 2nd.

Although its true that every base acquired has to be accounted for, ya gotta be careful! At least differentiate them somehow! What ended up happening was, sometimes there would be 10 errors in a game in the book, when actually there were only 4. then to make things even worse, her markings at the bottom for RHEL sometime reflected all of the E’s marked, and sometimes only the one that was the cause of the batter or runner having a play made on that got marked. It was a NIGHTMARE!

There’s a lot more, but this is getting’ really long so I’ll cut it off for now. Wink
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I don't think there's a perfect scorebook out there. If so, it would be 24" X 12" or bigger. I created my own sheet with two lines at the bottom of each box. That way I can track more pitching detail sorta like Scorekeeper described. I keep: S (swinging strike), L (looking), F (foul,) B (ball), I (in play). I know exactly how many pitches were thrown and how the pitcher is getting people out (or how our batters are going down - I want to know how many times a kid to watching third strike)
Last edited by obrady
obrady,

I created my own sheet some years back, but these HS folks get pretty testy about using the Glover’s, I suppose because it’s the “standard”. So what I tried to do for a while was to use both, but that only lasted a couple of games. Wink

No one ever asked me to track strikes as meticulously as you do, but I probably would do it too if I wasn’t already tracking so many other things. However, I do break down the strikes into 2 different categories. I differentiate between strikes that are balls put into play, i.e. hit balls that are the final pitch in a PA, and other strikes.

One of my major problems is, its tough to find someone to do the book for me for things like potty breaks, or having to miss a game for some reason. I get the book back and have to spend way too much time trying to lean out the data I need, and even then to much is missed.

More than once I’ve thought of converting my program to use actually marking the games, pitch by pitch, but I’m afraid I’m a little too long in tooth for that. But when I think of all the thing possible that could be tracked, I start to salivate. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Scorekeeper:
I’ve been entering some data to do stats for a friend of mine’s 10YO team.

Prolly the worst thing was the way she marked errors, and if you do this, ya better stop! Lets say there were runners on 1st and 2nd, and the

Although its true that every base acquired has to be accounted for, ya gotta be careful!


At the 9 and 10U level I only record the 1st error on a given play unless it is something really agregious. Too often one error begats another, and so on, so it is difficult to assign all of the blame and still keep up with all of the runs that score and runners advancing. At the higher levels of play these issues happen less seldom so it is not terribly difficult to keep track of errors and other stuff. I like the pitch accounting suggestion and may try to incorporate that intomy scoring this year.
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Faulkner:
At the 9 and 10U level I only record the 1st error on a given play unless it is something really agregious. Too often one error begats another, and so on, so it is difficult to assign all of the blame and still keep up with all of the runs that score and runners advancing. At the higher levels of play these issues happen less seldom so it is not terribly difficult to keep track of errors and other stuff. I like the pitch accounting suggestion and may try to incorporate that intomy scoring this year.


Scoring for those levels is much more of a chore than for the higher ones, for the reason you stated. Those snowball fights are fun to watch, but are murder if ya try to score it. Wink

Didja ever wonder if it wouldn’t be much easier on everyone if for the pre-HS levels, where keeping fielding records is so lax, if kept at all, and where things like BA’s and ERA’s really have little meaning in the sense of what they might mean for beyond HS ball, if they ought to just change the rule book to do away with such things as errors, PB’s, and WP’s ?

I’m not saying to do it, but it would certainly make things much easier on everyone, and remove one heck of a lot of angst from the youth game at the same time.

Accounting for the pitches as described will prolly go into my repertoire too. The only thing I’d do differently than she did was to actually mark the pitch # for the foul balls after 2 strikes too.

For several years I’ve been doing some things relating an event to which pitch in the sequence it was, and really like the results. Perhaps not too many other people would agree, but I find them very informative.

If you’re interested, got to http://www.infosports.com/scorekeeper/images/pitching.pdf
Pretty much ever stat from page 37 on is based on the pitch sequence.
Scorekeeper:
I kept the pitch count as you described above but also numbered the foul balls, using the space next to the strike boxes but if no room, just as close as I could get to the ball/strike area. Every now and then ran outside the box but it helped keep a clear picture of when a ball/strike was thrown. My husband missed a lot of games so he wanted to see the pitch sequence in detail and it does give some good info on how the pitcher reacts to situations.

Here's a suggestion on your errors: I would mark the error as you described BUT would circle all subsequent advances whether it was a 2-base error or runner on base. This was my code that it was the same play. (Actually, I used the circle technique anytime I needed to show something happened on the same play, such as WP or PB or whatever.)

Just another suggestion that wasn't mentioned, but I don't know anyone else who did this...I would write the pitcher's number at the top of the inning column making my own place (like next to the inning #) if the area didn't already exist for that purpose. Then I would asterick by the pitcher's number if a coach made a trip to the mound that inning. Caught a coach trying to make two trips without pulling once and was able to get word to our coach who brought it to the umpire's attention. (And there was one time we got away with it... Roll Eyes
If a new pitcher came in, that number would go on the opposite side of the inning number.

Hopefully I made this clear...oh for a simple graphics display
Thanks for posting helpful hints!
quote:
Originally posted by bluesky:
Here's a suggestion on your errors: I would mark the error as you described BUT would circle all subsequent advances whether it was a 2-base error or runner on base. This was my code that it was the same play. (Actually, I used the circle technique anytime I needed to show something happened on the same play, such as WP or PB or whatever.)
That sounds like it would work nicely as long as there was only I E on a play. I can see using that technique myself too.

...Caught a coach trying to make two trips without pulling once and was able to get word to our coach who brought it to the umpire's attention.
When I’m the OSK, I refuse to tell a coach anything he doesn’t ask for. A few years back an ump caught me doing that and excused me from my duties. Since then, I say nothing! Of course if not the OSK, that’s a different story. J

Hopefully I made this clear...oh for a simple graphics display Thanks for posting helpful hints!

Your explanation was wonderful! I’m sure there’s a bunch of folks of there who can use that in their repertoire.

I hesitate to post this because I was embarrassed when I was recently told to read it by a ML SK. I think you’ll see that it isn’t exactly the way we’re taught to keep score when we’re doing our kid’s LLI games. Wink I sure wish I could get my hands on a scoresheet such as the one described, but I suppose I’ll have to make my own if I want to try what t they’re talking about. http://dcortesi.home.mindspring.com/scoring/scoring.pdf
SK,
My pleasure, glad I could help. I love this kind of stuff too.

Interestingly enough, I didn't find the scoresheets by surfing that site, but rather by "Googling" some keywords from the original document you quoted. Search results took me back there.

Not only that, but there's tons more stuff on the Net regarding Project Scoresheet and its offshoots, even software.

Enjoy!!
GasMe

I’ve been discussing this with a few friends who also keep score, and while we all agree that had we been taught to score using that method lo those many years ago, it would have really been a benefit, changing horses at this point in time isn’t really gaining a whole lot.

I still might do it simply because I’m addicted to seeing what kinds of numbers and relations I can pull out of them, but for just regular old scorekeeping for the HS team, that’s a different matter. Folks who score for a team have to keep in mind that although their job is to keep score, if the folks who might want to use the book can’t read it, its no good to them.

In my case it wouldn’t be a problem because I give the coach whatever stats he wants, but some coaches want to do that for themselves. My biggest problem would be that if I did have to miss a game and someone else had to score it, they’d find it impossible. Then I’d be faced with the bane of all statisticians, having to put garbage in, knowing there’d be garbage coming out.

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