I meant making the team. I've seen funny things happen in terms of playing decisions.quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Good players don't get screwed. Marginal players get screwed every year according to their parents.
I'd beg to differ with you on that one. A little convoluted, but here's what happened as evidence.
Soph playing on varsity since frosh, hits a TON, good fielder, so so pitcher. This kid is a legit stud at the plate and deserves to be playing Varsity (now plays D1). Thing is, daddy sits in the dugout with the coach.
Junior pitcher, always been a front line starter at every level coming up, not getting many chances at varsity. Logs 10 innings with an ERA under 1, draws a start due to poor performance of a different starter. Throws a complete game 1 hitter. Next morning, soph pitches, gives up 8 earned in an inning and a third. Next week, junior sits, soph starts. Pretty much went that way the whole season. Junior wound up the season with an ERA under 1 and only drew 1 more varsity start that year.
The next year, junior, as a senior set all the pitching records at the HS and went on to D1 as a pitcher. The soph will never see the mound in college.
Good players can get screwed, I've watched it happen.
Your son's pitching coach has no idea how he stacks up against other players trying out. It's very possible there are other schools who would love to have him. They may not have the depth of talent of his current school.quote:Originally posted by overlooked:
I forgot to tell you RJM that it wasn't just me shocked that my son didn't get moved up to JV. My son works with a pitching coach all winter, who by the way has played AAA ball, and was also baffled by this situation. We have had other local schools who would love to have him on their team but because of money and residence it can't happen. The politics stink and I guess we will have to live thru it.
Look back a post at my son's basketball story. There were parents who didn't understand. A former coach, once a captain at one of the most recognizable college programs and a former pro didn't get it. When the coach explained I didn't agree. But I understood from his point of view. My son wasn't screwed. He lost out to a point of view I disagree with.
quote:Nowhere did I say HS coaches were lousy coaches or lazy. This sentence deals specifically with talent evaluation skills, how common they are, and why they might be lacking.
I am referring to your comments about their talent evaluation also, it is inaccurate and unfair.
quote:My son's high school had 2 days of tryouts but what for??? The coaches told the three freshman that were to be moved up to JV before tryouts even started. My son is always overlooked because he is a one sport kid and a good student. The three kids that were moved up are the popular ones NOT the best. I just told my son to go out and prove to those stupid coaches what a bad mistake they made.
overlooked - Your sons time will come if he has the skills, believe I know it’s hard when you feel that he has been passed over for other players that might not be as talented.
These are a few things I tell my son on the same situation.
1) Don’t show them that he is disappointed that he did not move up, have a good attitude and listen.
2) Show the coaches that he can be a leader on and off the field.
3) Hustle all the time in practice and games.
4) Always be on time and be the last one to leave that practice field or gym, don’t look like you do not want to be there.
The best piece of advice I can give you might be the hardest one to except. You as well have to stay positive in front of him. If he starts hearing you being negative he will be negative, he needs to stay positive and keep working hard on his baseball skills and keep up his grades. And he still has to love to play the game.
Hope this helps, I have been there and done that.
CSG You could not be more correct! Be happy your son made the team, many do not. Let him enjoy freshman baseball--at least in my area it is pretty good for the most part and if he is very good he will shine, and who doesn't enjoy that. Also he will get to play with his buddies. And when he does do well ,they could always move him up later. I am sure if he needs better opposition he will get plenty on his summer team. Best of luck to you and your son and have a great season.
overlooked... if I could add one more piece of advice to that which you have already received - expunge the phrase "stupid coaches" from any conversation you may have with your son. You do him no favors by painting his coaches in a bad light at this point in the season. Quite frankly, right now, your son knows nothing and you know even less.
Allow your son to enjoy his high school baseball experience without coloring it with your belief that he is already getting the short end. "Playing up" is not the be-all and end-all of the high school baseball experience. Coaches make decisions for all kinds of reasons - who's "popular", how many sports they play or whether they are good or bad students are not reasons for coaches. They are excuses for parents and players.
If I were you, I'd change my screen name (and my attitude) to "overjoyed" which is what you should be that your son is on the team.
JMHO. Sorry, but I've heard the "it's all politics" argument one too many times in my many years in the bleachers. It gets old.
Allow your son to enjoy his high school baseball experience without coloring it with your belief that he is already getting the short end. "Playing up" is not the be-all and end-all of the high school baseball experience. Coaches make decisions for all kinds of reasons - who's "popular", how many sports they play or whether they are good or bad students are not reasons for coaches. They are excuses for parents and players.
If I were you, I'd change my screen name (and my attitude) to "overjoyed" which is what you should be that your son is on the team.
JMHO. Sorry, but I've heard the "it's all politics" argument one too many times in my many years in the bleachers. It gets old.
It's why I sit or stand down the line in the outfield rather than the bleachers.quote:I've heard the "it's all politics" argument one too many times in my many years in the bleachers. It gets old.
This is an excuse. In most schools it's a plus. The kid is focused on the sport. That is if he's working at it all year like he should. My son does it playing a second sport. he did it last year playing three. At our high school every coach wishes players only played their sport.quote:My son is always overlooked because he is a one sport kid
For those of you who are saying that my attitude is bad and that I shouldn't be negative in front of my son I want you to know that I DO NOT say all those negative things to my son. I came on hear to see if I could get advice, which I did thank you, and maybe sound off a little. I ended up feeling like I was kicked while I was down. 
overlooked – I hope you did not take my post as saying that you are being negative or have a bad attitude that was not my intention. I was just trying to give you some insight from my experience thus far as to high school baseball.
As a new member I hope this dose not distract you from contributing to this forum.
As a new member I hope this dose not distract you from contributing to this forum.
overlooked
CSG gives you very sound advice with his 4 points.
CSG gives you very sound advice with his 4 points.
In large suburban high schools there always has been politics in high school baseball. With so many players who play travel ball in summer and only so many spots on high school team politics gets involved. Picking all area and all conferences players from large suburban school can also be based on politics. My son played on travel team many years---got seen summer junior year at all the Illinois recruiting tournaments and was recruited by D1. However, he was lucky he had a chance to see field in high school.
Fellas,
This is not the path that my original post was intended to take. I have no personal disdain for high school tryouts as both my son and daughter have done just fine. My question for the masses was whether fall tryouts might be a reasonable solution to a, generally speaking, flawed evaluation process as it presently exists. With all due respect to the responsive posters, not one has offered a specific thought in this regard.
This is not the path that my original post was intended to take. I have no personal disdain for high school tryouts as both my son and daughter have done just fine. My question for the masses was whether fall tryouts might be a reasonable solution to a, generally speaking, flawed evaluation process as it presently exists. With all due respect to the responsive posters, not one has offered a specific thought in this regard.
quote:My question for the masses was whether fall tryouts might be a reasonable solution to a,
Bravescoach, I'm not really sure how it could work... Also, let me pose this question: Say baseball has tryouts in the fall, does that mean football or s****r has tryouts in the spring? Also, what happens to those athletes who move in after fall tryouts? Or decide to play baseball in January instead of making that decision in July?
Just some thoughts..
Bravescoach - there were a number of responses early on to your proposal, and I think bulldog raises some good issues in the last post, but like any good conversation, this one meandered through the tulip patch to get to where it is now. I guess when you raise the question of how effective tryouts can be when held indoors, it naturally leads to a question of how fair can they be as well.
overlooked - sorry if you felt beat down, but your comment was "I just told my son to go out and prove to those stupid coaches what a bad mistake they made". Now you say you didn't say negative things in front of your son - OK, great. I was just responding to what YOU said you told him. Also, I'm still unclear as to why you feel so down - your son made the team, but he didn't get moved up? So what? Players get moved between levels all season long, from one game to the next. But the important thing is HE MADE THE TEAM! How can that leave you feeling bad?
overlooked - sorry if you felt beat down, but your comment was "I just told my son to go out and prove to those stupid coaches what a bad mistake they made". Now you say you didn't say negative things in front of your son - OK, great. I was just responding to what YOU said you told him. Also, I'm still unclear as to why you feel so down - your son made the team, but he didn't get moved up? So what? Players get moved between levels all season long, from one game to the next. But the important thing is HE MADE THE TEAM! How can that leave you feeling bad?
quote:Originally posted by RJM:It's why I sit or stand down the line in the outfield rather than the bleachers.quote:I've heard the "it's all politics" argument one too many times in my many years in the bleachers. It gets old.
I would agree w/ RJM 100% on this statement. You know, I have done my fair share of complaining on lots of stupid stuff I have seen in high school but a lot of that stupid stuff continues at the next levels too.
Personally, I too am sitting out by the tennis courts this year, far away from everyone so I can try and enjoy my son's last year...
Bravescoach - I thought I was at least trying to bring the post back to where you started!!!
I am not sure if people are aware of it or not, but one of the main things that separates our site from all other sports-related sites out there is that we have equal participation between mom's and dad's - as it should be imho. Excellent thoughts have been shared in this thread - especially by the mom's imho.
quote:In large suburban high schools there always has been politics in high school baseball. With so many players who play travel ball in summer and only so many spots on high school team politics gets involved. Picking all area and all conferences players from large suburban school can also be based on politics.
Fielder, this is your opinion of your experience, could we please stop generalizing the HS experience as being the same, they are not. As a coach I am becoming frustrated with the generalization that all coaches in the same box. Polotics? thats rich.
Bravescoach your thread was answer long ago. Yes, the indoor tryout offers neutral setting to which potential players can succeed or fail in. Baseball is about catching, throwing, hitting and running, of which can be evaluated inddors in ideal playing conditions, 78 degrees, no wind and good lighting. Many of the flaws of the high school tryout are in the player and not the condition.
quote:Originally posted by Playball2:
could we please stop generalizing the HS experience as being the same, they are not. As a coach I am becoming frustrated with the generalization that all coaches in the same box.
Playball,
Just because you don't like, or may personally not fit, a generality, does not mean they don't exist. A generality does not, as you incorrectly point out, put all coaches in the same box, it only identifies a common trait, shortcoming, skill, etc, shared by a group, who's size may vary by how the generality is quantified, i.e. few, some, many, most.
quote:Playball,
Just because you don't like, or may personally not fit, a generality, does not mean they don't exist. A generality does not, as you incorrectly point out, put all coaches in the same box, it only identifies a common trait, shortcoming, skill, etc, shared by a group, who's size may vary by how the generality is quantified, i.e. few, some, many, most.
You want a generality? All parents are whiners who know very little about sports. How's that sound?
Is it true? I would say not. But it is true for a lot.
Bulldog - as a parent I would have to agree that you hit the nail right on the head with that one!
I was going to say, I am heading into my last season as a high school baseball parent, I have been having conversations with many underclass parents regarding their son's potential. I walk away saying to myself, "Please tell me that I wasn't that dilusional about my kid's ability." To the parent that is complaining about his kid not being moved up, playing time is playing time. Leave your ego out of it.
I just have to say I love this statement.quote:Many of the flaws of the high school tryout are in the player and not the condition.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
You want a generality? All parents are whiners who know very little about sports. How's that sound?
Is it true? I would say not. But it is true for a lot.
What makes your statement wrong is the use of the word "all". That makes it a definitive, not a generality.
quote:A generality does not, as you incorrectly point out, put all coaches in the same box, it only identifies a common trait, shortcoming, skill, etc, shared by a group, who's size may vary by how the generality is quantified, i.e. few, some, many, most.
CPLZ, you might be an intelligent man, but don't out think yourself. It is only a generality because there is a common trait (ie: parents care more about their sons success rather than the success of the team.). It is the common trait that puts us in the box. And according to your past posts that would refer to many or most which implies to the majority. Don't I am perfectly content with my efforts and in no way need to support my efforts. However, I think it unfair and inaccurate to categorize most or many without a substantial understanding of what goes on in many or most programs. Perhaps you could lead the charge in stating something positive about the high school experience (on the high school baseball web site) instead of reciting a perceived stigma that only perpetuates a falsehood when commenting on many or most coaches and programs.