Two Scoring Question Situations

Both are stolen bases.  You can't assume an out in either case.

Originally Posted by Ripken Fan:

Just trying to close books on son's summer team and have two scoring questions both involve stolen bases, 2015 not involved in either one:

1) R1 breaks for second .. on a "strike em out throw em out"..ball beats runner who is called out on tag, then safe as second baseman drops ball (inning would have been over- 2nd out on K, 3rd out on would be caught stealing).. walk, walk, HB, and Grand slam follow)

2) Runner on first, left handed pitcher. Runner breaks towards second, pitcher throws to first on pickoff attempt. First baseman relay to second is errant throw off shortstop's glove into the outfield. An accurate throw would have gotten runner. Runner stays at second.

Got to throw in the standard caveat of not being able to see the plays makes it extremely difficult.

On the first one, it’s very very rarely that an error will be charged on a play like that. The thinking generally is that there’s so much going on in a short time and small space, it’s difficult at best to say the fielder wasn’t inadvertently blocked out, kicked, tripped, or something else that might cause him to not keep the throw under control. About the only time I can remember charging an error when a SBA is involved is during a rundown. It’s possible there was an error, but not very likely.

The 2^nd one is an example of what I was talking about above. But even on that one there are things to consider. How close was the runner to the play? Is it possible the runner blocked the fielder being able to see the ball? In cases where there’s a SB involved is one of the few times it’s generally accepted that the fielders should be given the benefit of the doubt about errors being charged. Even though the 2^nd scenario is one where there’s a better chance of seeing an error, it isn’t very likely unless the throw or the catch are really horriblel

So, I’m goin’ with SB in both cases without being able to see them. BTW, I sure hope you credited the pitcher in #2 with a PO and charge the runner with being picked.

Thanks Stats.. Hoping you would chime in, and look to hear from others. My inkling was error on 2B, no stolen base in first case. Umpire made call then changed it after 2B inexplicably dropped ball. All runs after would be unearned.

On the second one, the first baseman hurried throw, had time. Because runner didn't advance past second, and there was a lot to assume, I credited a SB, and no error. (Possibly runner could have been safe had a rundown took place, but it didn't).In HS they usually tell you keep going to second if you are picked off. As easy as it sounds, throw from F3 to F6 isn't made much or practiced. Both throws too P-1B, and 1B to SS have to be good.

Originally Posted by Ripken Fan:

Thanks Stats.. Hoping you would chime in, and look to hear from others. My inkling was error on 2B, no stolen base in first case. Umpire made call then changed it after 2B inexplicably dropped ball. All runs after would be unearned.

On the second one, the first baseman hurried throw, had time. Because runner didn't advance past second, and there was a lot to assume, I credited a SB, and no error. (Possibly runner could have been safe had a rundown took place, but it didn't).In HS they usually tell you keep going to second if you are picked off. As easy as it sounds, throw from F3 to F6 isn't made much or practiced. Both throws too P-1B, and 1B to SS have to be good.

I figgered the only reason you were looking at the 1^st one was about the earned runs.

Let me offer this. If it proves helpful, good. If not, no harm’s done.

I NEVER change how something was scored more than a week after the game for a couple reasons. One is the further away from the event, the more the mind plays tricks because memory can be fickle. Another is, to maintain the integrity of the stats for those who count on the numbers for one reason or another. The last thing I need to do is give cause for anyone to question the integrity of the program by allowing them to believe the books would be juggled to help or hurt a player.

I’m not trying to say what you’re doing is wrong, but rather trying to say to trust your judgement when the play took place much more than at the end of the season then the game may have been a few weeks to a few months before.

Thanks. One play was yesterday (when they were eliminated). The other was the day before.

First situation, can't imagine ever scoring that as an E.  I think doing so would be against the case book guidance you get on the rule.  As a former pitcher and also a pitcher's dad, I feel the pain, but not all preventable runs are unearned. 

In the second situation, as you described it, my answer's the same.  Had the runner been caught totally napping and then escaped a rundown on an errant throw, I might look at it differently.  But where the guy is going on first move and committed to stealing, basically he beat the play and that is the definition of an SB.  No different than if the pitch had gone home and the catcher would've gotten him had he not sailed it into CF. 

If the errant throw had allowed an advance to third, then it would be SB for the advance to 2nd and E for the advance to third.  But with no advance to third, no E at all.

Originally Posted by Ripken Fan:

Thanks. One play was yesterday (when they were eliminated). The other was the day before.

Then you’re doing nothing but trying to do the best job possible and no one should see it any different. Nice job!