Two Seam question

Mom,

My son is a college pitcher and throw the 2seamer to bust righthanders on occasion. He never pronates his wrists when throwing this pitch. I guess he should be the one answering this and not me, but I can only think that his release point is not consistent, i.e over the top versus 3 quarter arm slot. Also, where does he stand on the rubber, 3rd base side or 1st base side?

Hi,
Thanks for the response. To answer your questions, I don't think he changes his arm slot, just the point where he lets go of the 2 seam is slightly higher than the 4 seam. As to pronation, he doesn't turn it much, just a small amount. He stands right in the middle of the rubber.

He is reluctant to throw it, because if he misses over the middle, it is a flat, slower fastball. If he misses too far inside he ends up hitting the batter.

He is trying to decide if it is worth trying to tweak what he has (late sharp movement) or go back and try some different grips.

I hope this makes sense. Thanks for the help.

Mom,

I'm just impressed that you 1) are this in tune with your son's mechanics and pitches and 2) that you care this much to seek out advise to help. I applaud you for being such a great mom.

Without seeing him it would be a good suggestion to find a reputable pitching instructor there to look at him and help.

My son throws his 2 seam just like a 4 seam as far as release point. So maybe it could be as simple as that since you say his release is a bit higher. Again, it is the "grip" that gives the ball movement so he should not have any pronation on this pitch.

As far as trying different grips for 2 seam action. There isn't but one that really works best.

Mom, first of all I don't think there is anything wrong with the pronation. My son does that and gets run and sink with the two seam.

Secondly, without seeing what he is doing, my guess would be that he naturally throws to the inside. When he tries to go middle or away, he tries to guide the ball there with his arm. This will change his mechanics enough to change the nature of the pitch. What he should do is step with his front foot slightly in the direction he wants the ball to go. It is the same theory or idea that if you throw to home you step there, if you throw throw to first you step there. Only you do it very small increments. If you want to throw down the middle you step towards the middle of the plate. If you want to throw inside you step maybe an inch towards the inside. To go outside, you step an inch in that direction. Then you just throw it at the target. You don't have to change any mechanics, you don't have to try tomake the ball go where you want by guiding it with your arm.

Hope this makes sense to you. My son has been doing it this way since he was young and it has proved very effective for him. He is very good at hitting his spots. And there is nothing like starting the ball off the plate and having it tail back in for a called third strike on the outside corner.

Keep working on it. It will come. I wouldn't give up a two seam with movement like you describe. It will be a very effective pitch.

Baseballmom,

As you see, just like politics, there are variances in opinions.

Just be sure that he is not placing the ball too far back into his palm or this will cause it to be flat.

On the pronation, I'm sure many players do it. Tell him to try using pressure release points off of his point finger versus the middle finger. He might be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck.

Thanks for all the replies.

I am hoping that after some time off, during fall ball he will have a chance to work with this pitch.

We will let you know how it goes.

He should experiment with all these things in a bullpen setting and see what works for him.

I'm in the camp of thinking that the reason it changes when he changes location because of some minute change in his mechanics. My guess is that the same reason he misses over the middle is the same reason the pitch flattens out. This could be opening up too early, releasing too early/late, it is difficult to guess without seeing it all in motion.

You're already ahead of the game because most kids his age don't know much about different fastball grips and are unable to discern the movement on a fastball.

agree with bballman.... in addition, make sure that when he winds/unwinds his lower body, his upper body is staying in line with the plate thru to stride foot. If the shoulders turn much, the release point may also move - affecting not only his location, but the effectiveness of pitches that run.

Maybe it sounds simple..

But it seems kids today simply don't experiment much with their pitches. They google the web on how to throw stuff, but don't try their own mix.

Tell him to just try making sure the FB is not back in his hand, that he's using his fingertips to hold the ball, and have him try using different positioning with the finger (Throwing it just like his 4 seam FB) and see the different movement he can generate like that. He might be presently surprised.

Also...just mention to him if he feels like he's letting his wrist and arm 'whip' when he throws the FB. Many times I see kids trying to muscle up to throw it or make it move, and it actually is the opposite of what they want to do.

HTH

Might as well join in late on this one. It is my conclusion that the ball runs more when it is thrown to the arm side. The ball tends to move less when going away from the arm side. In my opinion this is why it is important to locate the pitch. It is harder to become adept at it because the pitcher has to hold on to the ball a little longer.

I like to have kids work on this in a number of ways. When they are warming up have the person they are warming up with move his glove so the thrower has to make release point adjustments. They can also learn to make minor adjustments during batting practice and bullpens using the same technique (moving glove). Just make sure that it is minor release point adjustments.

For what it's worth.

I think maybe when he's throwing outside he's so worried about it that he slows down and opens early and at that young an age that velocity difference can really effect the aerodynamics of the pitch, if he's throwing it softer the seams won't pick up the air as much as if he throws it harder, this is the opposite at higher levels the people that throw it in the MLB for example have a bigger break around 88-92 mph than they do at 93+, just look at Greg Maddux.