U of Buffalo dropping baseball :(

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Another year....another MAC school bailing on baseball under the "it costs too much money" tagline.  Ok, let's consider....when Akron dumped baseball a couple years ago, they said they were saving $600K a year by getting rid of baseball. Buffalo's release didn't mention a figure, but I assume it's close.  Akron and Buffalo are basically the same cost ($22K including room and board).  Now let's assume....that of the 33 kids on the Buffalo roster that all 33 would leave the school if baseball ends.  That means they are losing 21.3 students (33 - 11.7 that are on scholly)....at $22k/year....that's $468K in lost revenue.....to save $600K....a whopping $132K a year.  Seems to me like that's a pretty small amount of savings for the headaches it's going to cause the current player's and any kids who had already committed for next season.  Heck, when Akron dropped baseball, the coaches had raised enough to cover the cost in 2 days, but the school still dropped the sport.  Funny, the football programs that cost millions to run, but play in front of less than 10,000 fans almost every week seem to survive...I guess they can thank ESPN and those Tuesday night paydays for that huh.  

That revenue isn't lost. Either the players will remain as students, or other students are going to be in their place.

Also, you need to look at this from an IOI perspective. If they are saving $600K in IOI, that means that the total cost of the program is at least $1.1M a year.

I guess I worded it wrong.  Akron said the baseball program cost them $600K a year to run not that they would save $600K/year and that would include the 11.7 scholarships.   The other 21.7 in revenue goes away if all the guys leave....sure it can be replaced by other students.....but who says it will be...and even if it is, it's not new money, it's only replacing what they will lose.   The baseball guys are already there....whether or not 22 other kids show up to take their place is irrelevant.  

Actually, I lean toward agreeing with Buckeye on the lost student count.  So many schools are relying on athletic programs to lure students to their campuses.  I doubt that beautiful, sunny Buffalo (no offense) has particularly strong draw that would otherwise attract these baseball players without a baseball program and I would imagine a high likelihood of transfer-outs for many of those players in the program.

Admittedly, I am not personally familiar with the university.  Perhaps the school is impacted in some of the majors/class offerings that these players are enrolled in?

cabbagedad posted:

Actually, I lean toward agreeing with Buckeye on the lost student count.  So many schools are relying on athletic programs to lure students to their campuses.  I doubt that beautiful, sunny Buffalo (no offense) has particularly strong draw that would otherwise attract these baseball players without a baseball program and I would imagine a high likelihood of transfer-outs for many of those players in the program.

Admittedly, I am not personally familiar with the university.  Perhaps the school is impacted in some of the majors/class offerings that these players are enrolled in?

If baseball were actually drawing students, then it wouldn't be cut...QED.

It's unfortunate, but that's life.

Matt13 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Actually, I lean toward agreeing with Buckeye on the lost student count.  So many schools are relying on athletic programs to lure students to their campuses.  I doubt that beautiful, sunny Buffalo (no offense) has particularly strong draw that would otherwise attract these baseball players without a baseball program and I would imagine a high likelihood of transfer-outs for many of those players in the program.

Admittedly, I am not personally familiar with the university.  Perhaps the school is impacted in some of the majors/class offerings that these players are enrolled in?

If baseball were actually drawing students, then it wouldn't be cut...QED.

It's unfortunate, but that's life.

Baseball drawing students??  I guess I don't understand what that means.  Do you think there are students (non-athletes) that go to MAC schools because they like to watch football??  

I have no first hand knowledge of either Buffalo or Akron, but I would be SHOCKED if they have 11.7 scholarships to utilize.  I'll bet it isn't even close to that. 

So, this is about money.  Isn't it always about money?   Univ of Buffalo needs to take a new fund raising approach based on the world's oldest profession.  Yes, I'm talking about those business savvy Chanticleers.  ;-)

http://www.upi.com/Sports_News...aders/3661490997547/

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Matt13 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Actually, I lean toward agreeing with Buckeye on the lost student count.  So many schools are relying on athletic programs to lure students to their campuses.  I doubt that beautiful, sunny Buffalo (no offense) has particularly strong draw that would otherwise attract these baseball players without a baseball program and I would imagine a high likelihood of transfer-outs for many of those players in the program.

Admittedly, I am not personally familiar with the university.  Perhaps the school is impacted in some of the majors/class offerings that these players are enrolled in?

If baseball were actually drawing students, then it wouldn't be cut...QED.

It's unfortunate, but that's life.

Baseball drawing students??  I guess I don't understand what that means.  Do you think there are students (non-athletes) that go to MAC schools because they like to watch football??  

Well, actually, I said schools are relying on athletic programs (not just baseball) to draw students.  I am talking about the student-athletes themselves.  As a HS coach and a person who follows our local HS students' paths to college, I would say a very significant % of those student-athletes get interest from and end up attending colleges that would have never been on their radar if not for the athletic connection.  

Not sure about Buffalo, but even back when I was in HS, a few teammates went on to play baseball at Akron.  They definitely would not have chosen that school (town was a major armpit back then) if the baseball program didn't show interest in them.  The same can be said of five of the six of my most recent players currently playing in college and the same story repeats itself for several neighboring HS's.

So will this become more of a trend in the coming years for smaller D1 programs?  I know several states are having major funding issues for the Universities and are mandating major budget cuts to make ends meet.  In addition, in many states kids are leaving their home state to go to neighboring states offering "in-state" tuition further reducing the local revenue stream.  Would that be something kids need to discuss with the coaches recruiting them where in the past shouldnt have even been a consideration?

I'm with CabbageDad on this regarding baseball drawing kids' interest to a school they may never consider.  I've got the travel receipts and college application expense charges to prove the point with my 2017.  Had a school not shown an interest in my son as a baseball player, he would never have considered/researched the school, applied for admission for some of them, and visited them in person in a smaller group of schools.  U-Buffalo was not one of them, but then I don't ever remember seeing them recruiting at any of the events my son attended.  He has fellow players from his league in SoCal attending distant schools like Valparaiso and University of Northern Colorado because they recruit the area.

Part of the college experience is students having the opportunity to attend athletic events, the more sports the better.  Also part of the student experience is meeting kids from different areas of the country, which a lot of baseball programs attract.  Some schools recognize the value that a baseball program provides beyond the specific dollars it costs to field a team.  Whatever happened to the practical benefit the student gets from learning important life skills like time management, teamwork, and personal commitment that come with playing baseball as a college student?

I really don't think any of this changes what I'm saying.

A school is going to have a population of x, no matter what. It's not going to be x-21 or x-baseball players. I'm not arguing the intangibles that a sport brings...but there are other intangibles that that money can bring to the rest of the student body. At almost every school, baseball is not a significant part of the atmosphere. It may increase the applicant pool, but it's not going to change the bottom line significantly.

Matt13 posted:

I really don't think any of this changes what I'm saying.

A school is going to have a population of x, no matter what. It's not going to be x-21 or x-baseball players. I'm not arguing the intangibles that a sport brings...but there are other intangibles that that money can bring to the rest of the student body. At almost every school, baseball is not a significant part of the atmosphere. It may increase the applicant pool, but it's not going to change the bottom line significantly.

Matt, I talk to lots of private colleges and universities as part of my work.  Many are, in fact, relying on sports programs to change, and in many cases, save the bottom line at their schools.  This article echo's what I see and hear quite frequently...  granted, this currently applies more so to smaller schools.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/...intain-increase.html

Furthermore, with the increasing proliferation of online classes readily available everywhere, I see this becoming more and more of a factor in growing/maintaining enrollment. 

A great crunch in higher education is coming soon to a school near you.  In the next 5- 10 years many colleges and universities will close their doors. Hardest hit will be small private Liberal Arts colleges, but underfunded state universities are not immune.  Some may try to stay open by cutting curricular and extra-curricular programs.  That will save some but by no means all.

Just read on Baseball America that Buffalo was only funding 6.5 scholarships....which means that baseball was likely costing the school around $500K (based on Akron's $600K) number.  Their total savings from eliminating 4 sports was $2 million out of a $31 million athletic budget.  Seems like they could have found a way...or at least given everyone a season's notice instead of doing it now.  Tough for the underclassmen and commits to find a team at this point in the year.

Kinda long but worth the read....

http://buffalonews.com/2017/06...n-everyone-involved/

Always a shame. But I can see the obvious weather-related difficulties of playing baseball in Buffalo in March. 

It is long. It's an excellent article. It brings together the emotions and other factors of the players losing their team.