So how did any of the large schools field a baseball team before Travel Ball started creating players good enough to play at large schools??
Don't answer the questions as it is total BS just like the excuses as to why kids must play 80 to 100 games at 8, 9 or 10 to make a large HS team.....
quote:Originally posted by dw8man:
So how did any of the large school field a baseball team before Travel Ball started creating players good enough to play at large schools??
Don't answer the questions as it is total BS just like the excuses as to why kids must play 80 to 100 games at 8, 9 or 10 to make a large HS team.....
dw8man, the 9U teams my boys played on weren't put together with the goal of something crazy like making HS Varsity as a Freshman (not going to happen- too deep) or delusions of 9U Dad's of their sons playing in college or being drafted. They were put together with the goals of the kids having fun learning baseball & life skills and doing so in a competitive enviroment. Only a few of the younger bunch played at the highest youth level, it wasn't worth destroying family relationships to continually move kids off the team & bring on the latest & greatest.
As far as making these stronger high school teams, our experience is: each big suburban HS with a strong program will each go through marginal classes to really strong classes. One can spot the strong incoming freshman, just as they can spot other strong classes. If one's son just happens to be one of the boys who struggles, whether he is part of a marginal class, for whatever reason, he will get passed up. On the other hand, many of the stronger well prepared players will move up, play & contribute.
There are five coaches and three consultants. That leaves one starting position assuming one of the eight didn't have twins.
Now for a serious question: Why should a preteen be pidgeon holed into one position for an entire season?
Back to the not so serious side: Do these kids have to take the genetic test that determines they have a future in baseball?
KID: But coach my sister is getting married this weekend?
COACH: Sorry kid, you signed a contract. Have you ever heard of Judge Judy?
Is having played on a USSSA National Championship Tee Ball team in the past a resume enhancer for making the team?
When my son was nine he played a 16 game CR season in the spring and 25 travel games over the summer. The team finished up the third week in July. Then he went swimming, fishing, waterskiing etc for the rest of the summer.
What I see here is a breeding ground for insane, out of control parents. "What do you mean my son didn't make varsity? He was the shortstop on a 9U national champion!"
Now for a serious question: Why should a preteen be pidgeon holed into one position for an entire season?
Back to the not so serious side: Do these kids have to take the genetic test that determines they have a future in baseball?
KID: But coach my sister is getting married this weekend?
COACH: Sorry kid, you signed a contract. Have you ever heard of Judge Judy?
Is having played on a USSSA National Championship Tee Ball team in the past a resume enhancer for making the team?
When my son was nine he played a 16 game CR season in the spring and 25 travel games over the summer. The team finished up the third week in July. Then he went swimming, fishing, waterskiing etc for the rest of the summer.
What I see here is a breeding ground for insane, out of control parents. "What do you mean my son didn't make varsity? He was the shortstop on a 9U national champion!"
Journey, I think the major problem that a lot of people have here is not that there are teams of kids that are selected to play in these tourneys or that there are 'select' teams at the age of nine; the issue is how over the top this particular team is.
Here is what I have a major issue with.
Eleven Kids on the team. That is a small size for any rec league team much less one that is supposedly going to travel and perform in all of these supposed events. These are 8 year olds, they get chicken pox, they get ear infections, they fall down and break arms. I find it ridiculously unrealistic to have such a small number of kids and then expect them to field teams every weekend.
Playing 60-80 or more games in a year. This isn't a 'maybe if the weather holds' statement, this is a statement that the boys will play 80-90 games in a year. Even at 60 that is a lot of games for most 8 year olds. That works out to 12-16 tournaments (if you average five games per tourney).
Putting a kid at a specific spot for the year. I can't possibly think of a worse thing to do to an eight year old than sticking him at one specific position and locking him in there. Kids have to learn how to play multiple positions to become decent all around ballplayers.
Demanding private lessons (and it sounds like a fair amount of them) at eight years old. I am an advocate of getting some throwing and hitting lessons at the age of 8 or 9 but nothing takes the fun out of a game like making your third grader do hours of tee drills or band work.
This whole contract thing really sets me off. I don't mind a commitment attitude toward a team but essentially you have locked this kid into this sport for the year and if the kdi wants to play s****r, or football or just hang out with his buddies he is hosed.
Multiple coaches and multiple 'consultants'. This smacks of a scam to me. What kind of 9U team needs four coaches and three consultants? For eleven kids? I don't think the Mariners have that many on staff. That's almost one consultant for each kid. Are these consultants and coaches paid?
There is nothing wrong with putting a bunch of like minded kids together on a team so that they can learn and play together. Some of my son's best memories were playing for his 'team' and looking forward to the next year so that he could play with his buddies again. Any team that is build like that and appears devoted to the idea that the primary focus of playing baseball is making friends, playing a game and learning skills that transfer far beyond the diamond is a team that I respect and support.
But this team's goal looks to be far different to me.
Here is what I have a major issue with.
Eleven Kids on the team. That is a small size for any rec league team much less one that is supposedly going to travel and perform in all of these supposed events. These are 8 year olds, they get chicken pox, they get ear infections, they fall down and break arms. I find it ridiculously unrealistic to have such a small number of kids and then expect them to field teams every weekend.
Playing 60-80 or more games in a year. This isn't a 'maybe if the weather holds' statement, this is a statement that the boys will play 80-90 games in a year. Even at 60 that is a lot of games for most 8 year olds. That works out to 12-16 tournaments (if you average five games per tourney).
Putting a kid at a specific spot for the year. I can't possibly think of a worse thing to do to an eight year old than sticking him at one specific position and locking him in there. Kids have to learn how to play multiple positions to become decent all around ballplayers.
Demanding private lessons (and it sounds like a fair amount of them) at eight years old. I am an advocate of getting some throwing and hitting lessons at the age of 8 or 9 but nothing takes the fun out of a game like making your third grader do hours of tee drills or band work.
This whole contract thing really sets me off. I don't mind a commitment attitude toward a team but essentially you have locked this kid into this sport for the year and if the kdi wants to play s****r, or football or just hang out with his buddies he is hosed.
Multiple coaches and multiple 'consultants'. This smacks of a scam to me. What kind of 9U team needs four coaches and three consultants? For eleven kids? I don't think the Mariners have that many on staff. That's almost one consultant for each kid. Are these consultants and coaches paid?
There is nothing wrong with putting a bunch of like minded kids together on a team so that they can learn and play together. Some of my son's best memories were playing for his 'team' and looking forward to the next year so that he could play with his buddies again. Any team that is build like that and appears devoted to the idea that the primary focus of playing baseball is making friends, playing a game and learning skills that transfer far beyond the diamond is a team that I respect and support.
But this team's goal looks to be far different to me.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
There are five coaches and three consultants. That leaves one starting position assuming one of the eight didn't have twins.
What I see here is a breeding ground for insane, out of control parents. "What do you mean my son didn't make varsity? He was the shortstop on a 9U national champion!"
I didn't even think about this. You are probably right, all the 'coaches and consultants' are probably fathers of these kids. Judging from the bios I am willing to bet every one of them was an 'Al Bundy' type trying to relive his glory days through his kid.
Wklink, Before I posted, I scanned the OP's original post, then clicked on the "About" section on the his website, took about 45 secs. It noted other than head coach, no other coaches had sons on the team, so RJM's typical demeaning comment that there are a ton of assistant Daddy coaches having a kid on the team is bogus. I read where you refer to the kids as 8U's, while this a 9U team. One thing many of us have noted for years on most of these youth tournament teams is they have a huge number of old for their age players, the "May through Sept" players. This has been very common since the near universal age change 6 year ago. Don't know anyone associated with this team, but I'd bet it won't be any different age wise.
Weather & games actually played: both of my boys played a considerable amt of youth ball in the N Texas & OK area, I also have a relative whose preteen son has played on one of the better DFW club majors teams for several years. From that. I have a good idea to the amount of games played & how they directly relate to the Spring-early Summer weather in this market. Weather patterns & gulf moisture have a TON to do with how many tournaments are actually played. One can "plan on" 60-80 games for an entire year, & the numbers often end up less. The whole idea of projected number of games to be played is often put out to let parents know what they are getting into. A strong youth tournament team in this market, the managers often have a thought process they use to enter the teams in several decently strong tournaments along with quite a few really challenging tournaments like the Triple Crown opener, the OK-TX Shootout, then a Super NIT or two. Maybe play both usssa state & Superseries state, then onto a WS. In the DFW area, there are several local WS's each summer, many local DFW youth tourn teams will play a local WS plus a Usssa or Super Series WS.
Weather & games actually played: both of my boys played a considerable amt of youth ball in the N Texas & OK area, I also have a relative whose preteen son has played on one of the better DFW club majors teams for several years. From that. I have a good idea to the amount of games played & how they directly relate to the Spring-early Summer weather in this market. Weather patterns & gulf moisture have a TON to do with how many tournaments are actually played. One can "plan on" 60-80 games for an entire year, & the numbers often end up less. The whole idea of projected number of games to be played is often put out to let parents know what they are getting into. A strong youth tournament team in this market, the managers often have a thought process they use to enter the teams in several decently strong tournaments along with quite a few really challenging tournaments like the Triple Crown opener, the OK-TX Shootout, then a Super NIT or two. Maybe play both usssa state & Superseries state, then onto a WS. In the DFW area, there are several local WS's each summer, many local DFW youth tourn teams will play a local WS plus a Usssa or Super Series WS.
Just curious what does a consultant do for 8-9 year olds? Let alone three consultants. Could they be called advisors?
Maybe these consultants are just three more coaches. Eight coaches seemed like too many so three become consultants. Sure does sound like eight parents are involved in running the show.
This could have the makings of a Perfect Storm.
Maybe these consultants are just three more coaches. Eight coaches seemed like too many so three become consultants. Sure does sound like eight parents are involved in running the show.
This could have the makings of a Perfect Storm.
As far as number of players, most 9 & 10U teams playing tournament ball in this market limit themselves to 11 dressed out (forgive me it's hoops season) players at a tournament. On several of these well networked teams, one will also have on the early official rosters a really strong player who is a little younger & is playing down and a few off the chart players who are legal age & playing up a year. The whole object of 11 at most tournaments is it maximizes playing time/ keeps parents happy. When rosters are locked, & a manager can only add 3 players, these extra players who don't actually play all the time with the team come in very handy in the late season big tournaments.
Will agree with you Wklink, I don't like seeing one position only stuff going on in youth ball, be it poorly run rec ball or tournament ball. The players need to develop many different skill sets. The problem is, on too many 7-10 y/o youth tournament teams there is always a parent or two who thinks their kid is the SS, and only the SS! I sure wouldn't have written what the OP did about how he was going to handle positions, I'd bet he's had problems with parents in the past and is wanting to head them off, still his choice of communication & requirements are waaay out there. IMHO this is not the way to put out feelers trying to attract solid ballplayers and quality prospective families.
Will agree with you Wklink, I don't like seeing one position only stuff going on in youth ball, be it poorly run rec ball or tournament ball. The players need to develop many different skill sets. The problem is, on too many 7-10 y/o youth tournament teams there is always a parent or two who thinks their kid is the SS, and only the SS! I sure wouldn't have written what the OP did about how he was going to handle positions, I'd bet he's had problems with parents in the past and is wanting to head them off, still his choice of communication & requirements are waaay out there. IMHO this is not the way to put out feelers trying to attract solid ballplayers and quality prospective families.
quote:It noted other than head coach, no other coaches had sons on the team
If true, it sure sounds like the head coach started the team and put together the coaching staff and consultants. Be interesting to see how everything works out. Maybe it will be a great experience for everyone involved.
journey2,
IMO There is nothing wrong with young kids learning the game and playing a lot of baseball providing that is what they really want to do and they enjoy it.
To me the most important thing a youth coach can do is help kids develop a love for the game. It's that love for the game that will do the most in helping them reach their potential as they grow older. More than anything else, Baseball needs to be fun! IMO forcing 8-9 year old kids to do certain things can be risky if the goal is baseball development.
When you start telling kids this age they must attend this and they must attend that something seems wrong. We all know the parents are going to make sure the kids attend what they are told they need to attend in order to remain on the team. Games, tourny's, practices, private instruction, etc etc. At this age? Consultants at this age? What are they doing? Your son needs to get faster. Your son needs to develop more arm strength. Your son needs to work on his swing. Really? They are 8 and 9 year old kids.
Over the top. Come on these are 8 and 9 year old kids. You have to wonder about a parent that would put their kid in a situation like this. Of course they will say "He just loves it it's all he wants to do." Yes and kids love candy, coke, video games, ice cream, movies and a lot of other things. Is that all you let them do and all you let them eat?
What happens when the next "stud" comes along? The roster is moved up to 12 players? Someone is not meeting the expectations of the team and is asked to leave? What happens when one of the kids is not progressing at the level required? Asked to leave the team? Pay more money for more private instruction? What if its the coaches kid? Is a new player brought in to replace him or does the coach start a new team with his kid?
Really how can anyone look at his situation and not cringe?
Over the top. Come on these are 8 and 9 year old kids. You have to wonder about a parent that would put their kid in a situation like this. Of course they will say "He just loves it it's all he wants to do." Yes and kids love candy, coke, video games, ice cream, movies and a lot of other things. Is that all you let them do and all you let them eat?
What happens when the next "stud" comes along? The roster is moved up to 12 players? Someone is not meeting the expectations of the team and is asked to leave? What happens when one of the kids is not progressing at the level required? Asked to leave the team? Pay more money for more private instruction? What if its the coaches kid? Is a new player brought in to replace him or does the coach start a new team with his kid?
Really how can anyone look at his situation and not cringe?
Taking baseball this serious, at this age, is ridiculous. It's ridiculous mainly because playing 60,80 or 120 games with 4 coaches and 3 consultants in the Super NIT, USSSA, Triple Crown world series every other weekend at 9 years old has absolutely no baring or effect on these kids playing in high school or beyond.
IMO these types of teams, at this age, are all about the head coaches ego and how he wants to show off how good his future MLB son is.
IMO these types of teams, at this age, are all about the head coaches ego and how he wants to show off how good his future MLB son is.
Journey, 9U generally refers to 8 and 9 year olds.
To be honest, even if all the kids are 9 that doesn't diminish the fact that this whole concept is ridiculous. Five coaches, three consultants on a team of 11 kids. Tracking of mandatory instruction. Assigned, perminant positions and no movement. A contract that says you essentially can't quit.
THESE ARE NINE YEAR OLDS!!!! Third and fourth graders.
Some kids are self motivated and love this kind of stuff. I'm happy for them and if they want to play on a team like this then I am all for it. Journey, your son sounds like one of the kids that did benefit from playing a ton of games.
Unfortunately I think more boys are ruined by programs like this than are helped. The pressure that these kinds of programs put on very young minds is enough to spoil that desire that many of these kids have. I've seen it. If you associate baseball with work too much kids will turn it off. The 8-9 year old mind doesn't understand the concepts of repetition and drills will bore them completely. You have to make it fun for these kids or they will become bored and then the game turns into work.
The coach's bio that he posted on the first page is what concerns me. He essentially has coached high school and college age kids for the last 15 years and is not supposedly putting a 9U team together. You can't coach 8 and 9 year olds in the same way you coach 14-22 year olds. If this was a 12U program that the coach was putting together then I would feel differently.
Like others have said this appears to be more of a team designed to attract the Tiger Woods dads, those parents that think their kid is a future MLB All Star. These guys put their kid on a team like this because other, regular teams, are not up to the talent level of their son.
To be honest, even if all the kids are 9 that doesn't diminish the fact that this whole concept is ridiculous. Five coaches, three consultants on a team of 11 kids. Tracking of mandatory instruction. Assigned, perminant positions and no movement. A contract that says you essentially can't quit.
THESE ARE NINE YEAR OLDS!!!! Third and fourth graders.
Some kids are self motivated and love this kind of stuff. I'm happy for them and if they want to play on a team like this then I am all for it. Journey, your son sounds like one of the kids that did benefit from playing a ton of games.
Unfortunately I think more boys are ruined by programs like this than are helped. The pressure that these kinds of programs put on very young minds is enough to spoil that desire that many of these kids have. I've seen it. If you associate baseball with work too much kids will turn it off. The 8-9 year old mind doesn't understand the concepts of repetition and drills will bore them completely. You have to make it fun for these kids or they will become bored and then the game turns into work.
The coach's bio that he posted on the first page is what concerns me. He essentially has coached high school and college age kids for the last 15 years and is not supposedly putting a 9U team together. You can't coach 8 and 9 year olds in the same way you coach 14-22 year olds. If this was a 12U program that the coach was putting together then I would feel differently.
Like others have said this appears to be more of a team designed to attract the Tiger Woods dads, those parents that think their kid is a future MLB All Star. These guys put their kid on a team like this because other, regular teams, are not up to the talent level of their son.