Anybody have experience with a UCL injury that wasn't a complete tear?
What were the symptoms?
How was it rehabbed?
Thanks.
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I have delt with UCL strains. Obviously you need to get to an orthopedic to be sure there's no major problems. Physical therapy is a probablitlty. We took three months off to be safe, pitcher will probably need at least 6 weeks off. Fortunalty no long term problems for us. Here is how I am addressing it now, it may seem like overkill, but so far he hasn't had any problems this season.
1. We have a personal trainer in the off season that has added 15 lbs of muscle mass to better support the joints.
2. Jobe exercises, stretching, 100 situps, 100 squats and 100 pushups almost every
night during the season.
3. Got personal lessons from a major league pitching coach to refine mechanics so that the front side is not opening up early and everything stays online with good balance. This added at least 8 MPH velocity with less strain on the arm.
4. Physical therapy that has been learned is done several times per week during the season whether he needs it or not.
5. Used a line ball to identify a tendency to rotate the wrist like a slider on virtually all throws. Now the line ball is used at the beginning of every practice to establish proper release.
6. Starts throwing routine 6 weeks in advance of the season. Pitches at least one bull pen and throws four days per week per week regardless if its spring break and simply raining for 10 days straight causing cancelled practices and games.
7. Does not throw at all for one month in the summer and one month in the early winter.
8. Takes a quality vitamin, glucosamine and fish oil tablet daily.
Again this looks like overkill, but its worked for us and this season has been great.
1. We have a personal trainer in the off season that has added 15 lbs of muscle mass to better support the joints.
2. Jobe exercises, stretching, 100 situps, 100 squats and 100 pushups almost every
night during the season.
3. Got personal lessons from a major league pitching coach to refine mechanics so that the front side is not opening up early and everything stays online with good balance. This added at least 8 MPH velocity with less strain on the arm.
4. Physical therapy that has been learned is done several times per week during the season whether he needs it or not.
5. Used a line ball to identify a tendency to rotate the wrist like a slider on virtually all throws. Now the line ball is used at the beginning of every practice to establish proper release.
6. Starts throwing routine 6 weeks in advance of the season. Pitches at least one bull pen and throws four days per week per week regardless if its spring break and simply raining for 10 days straight causing cancelled practices and games.
7. Does not throw at all for one month in the summer and one month in the early winter.
8. Takes a quality vitamin, glucosamine and fish oil tablet daily.
Again this looks like overkill, but its worked for us and this season has been great.
Thanks for the info.
He was in a back brace for Spondylolysis and after a few months was allowed to start practicing in the brace. I think his elbow problem resulted from throwing in the brace which forced him to open up early and drag the arm when throwing.
I think we caught it early and it is starting to heal but it is going to take a while. He took a week off and then reported a little pain on some throws when he threw today but that it was much better than a week ago. We'll rest it some more and then see what happens next time out. He's taking the vitamins and the glucosamine.
He's still got physical therapy prescribed for the back so we're using it to work on the arm.
He's got an appointment with a sport medicine doctor for his back in a couple weeks, and since rest is the most likely presciption anyways we'll wait until then.
He was in a back brace for Spondylolysis and after a few months was allowed to start practicing in the brace. I think his elbow problem resulted from throwing in the brace which forced him to open up early and drag the arm when throwing.
I think we caught it early and it is starting to heal but it is going to take a while. He took a week off and then reported a little pain on some throws when he threw today but that it was much better than a week ago. We'll rest it some more and then see what happens next time out. He's taking the vitamins and the glucosamine.
He's still got physical therapy prescribed for the back so we're using it to work on the arm.
He's got an appointment with a sport medicine doctor for his back in a couple weeks, and since rest is the most likely presciption anyways we'll wait until then.
Dg, I'm very interested in what you did, and I dont think it's ovrkill as much as a smart caring approcah.
I have some questions if that's OK
#2 every night during the season? I can see all of it being of value but the quantity seems like a lot.
#3 Curious what he found that keeps you closed. I think this is a big deal both velocity wise and health. Often over looked.
#4 What was his injury?
Thanks for sharing this. I am really impressed. I think too many leave the health and performance up to others and yo uobviously have taken control. I applaud you.
How old is he and how is he doing now.
Thanks, Razor
CADad, Keep us in the loop. Isn't your son 16 or so? Hope all goes well.
I have some questions if that's OK
#2 every night during the season? I can see all of it being of value but the quantity seems like a lot.
#3 Curious what he found that keeps you closed. I think this is a big deal both velocity wise and health. Often over looked.
#4 What was his injury?
Thanks for sharing this. I am really impressed. I think too many leave the health and performance up to others and yo uobviously have taken control. I applaud you.
How old is he and how is he doing now.
Thanks, Razor
CADad, Keep us in the loop. Isn't your son 16 or so? Hope all goes well.
razor,
14. He's running into a bunch of growth related problems. It's an education, but not an easy one for him. Pitchers who aren't allowed to throw don't get a lot of playing time.
Thanks,
CADad
DG,
I'd also be interested in hearing what you did about opening early. He's always had a slight problem with it but he also gets some good movement that way so as long as it wasn't excessive we didn't focus on it. When it did get to be too much we just emphasized keeping the lead arm on target longer. He hasn't pitched in the brace and there's no way to stay closed in the brace so we just had to live with it. In retrospect we shouldn't have let the coaches have him spend entire infield practices throwing from third in the brace.
Thanks,
CADad
14. He's running into a bunch of growth related problems. It's an education, but not an easy one for him. Pitchers who aren't allowed to throw don't get a lot of playing time.
Thanks,
CADad
DG,
I'd also be interested in hearing what you did about opening early. He's always had a slight problem with it but he also gets some good movement that way so as long as it wasn't excessive we didn't focus on it. When it did get to be too much we just emphasized keeping the lead arm on target longer. He hasn't pitched in the brace and there's no way to stay closed in the brace so we just had to live with it. In retrospect we shouldn't have let the coaches have him spend entire infield practices throwing from third in the brace.
Thanks,
CADad
My son is 14 also. I am always looking for things to do to help him stay healthy. I have coached hiom in the past and was able to control what he did pitching wise. He is on to a different team now and i am looking to protect him more off the field in the preparation stuff.
Razor
Razor
Same here. The health problems all came after he started working out with the HS baseball program. The workload was more than his body could handle while he was in mid growth spurt. We backed off and weren't having him do anything beyond the HS program but that wasn't enough to protect him. I went ahead and left a message with his sports medicine doctor to see if he wants us to bring him in to look at the arm.
Hey guys sorry for the slow response, I use my computer at work when I get breaks in my day. Lately, I haven't gotten many.
In regards to how often he does #2, he pretty regularly keeps up with the schedule above. However, sometimes he alternates from night to night between #2 and #4 and occassionally he takes a night off if he's feeling a little burned out. Sometimes I have to remind him of the importance of these little things, but generally he's pretty good about them. He missed most of the freshman season with pulled achilles tendons, followed by a strained UCL. This year he has had a very strong start as the teams #1 pitcher and starting left fielder, so it appears he is more than willing to do the extra work to stay healthy. The personal trainer has given him much more defined muscles which has lead to his first significant girlfriend (a cheerleader), so he is happy to do the sit ups, push ups and squats to stay in shape. He takes a lot of pride in being in better condition than any of his peers.
My son had his injuries off and on between 12-14. Every injury was looked at by an orthopedic surgeon, fortunaley nothing permanent. After discussing pitch count and mechanics with me the doctor formed the opinion tha my son was probably simply throwing harder than his young body was ready for. I agree with CADad that a rapid growth spurt of 8 inches in 18 months probably had allot to do with it. He is now 15 the growth seem to be leveling off for now but I think he will still grow a few more inches. I think the stretching and physical therapy keeps the tendons and muscles from getting as tight as a violin string.
As for his mechanics, he had a tendancy to spin open with his front shoulder which put more strain on his throwing elbow and shoulder. I am sure his pitching coach could far better explain the mechanics. But what he did was to increase his stride length to be the length of his height (head to toe). Secondly, he made my son stay more compact with his arms when breaking his hands apart and not bringing his throwing arm so far behind his body (toward third base). After my son was sideways in his delivery (lefty facing first as he strides out) and gets to the high L position, his front shoulder was adjusted to be about 3 inches higher than his back shoulder, and instead of spinning open he thrusts his core and chest directly forward to the catcher while having a less aggressive rotation.
I am knocking on my wood desk here and hoping he stays healthy for the remainder of the season.
In regards to how often he does #2, he pretty regularly keeps up with the schedule above. However, sometimes he alternates from night to night between #2 and #4 and occassionally he takes a night off if he's feeling a little burned out. Sometimes I have to remind him of the importance of these little things, but generally he's pretty good about them. He missed most of the freshman season with pulled achilles tendons, followed by a strained UCL. This year he has had a very strong start as the teams #1 pitcher and starting left fielder, so it appears he is more than willing to do the extra work to stay healthy. The personal trainer has given him much more defined muscles which has lead to his first significant girlfriend (a cheerleader), so he is happy to do the sit ups, push ups and squats to stay in shape. He takes a lot of pride in being in better condition than any of his peers.
My son had his injuries off and on between 12-14. Every injury was looked at by an orthopedic surgeon, fortunaley nothing permanent. After discussing pitch count and mechanics with me the doctor formed the opinion tha my son was probably simply throwing harder than his young body was ready for. I agree with CADad that a rapid growth spurt of 8 inches in 18 months probably had allot to do with it. He is now 15 the growth seem to be leveling off for now but I think he will still grow a few more inches. I think the stretching and physical therapy keeps the tendons and muscles from getting as tight as a violin string.
As for his mechanics, he had a tendancy to spin open with his front shoulder which put more strain on his throwing elbow and shoulder. I am sure his pitching coach could far better explain the mechanics. But what he did was to increase his stride length to be the length of his height (head to toe). Secondly, he made my son stay more compact with his arms when breaking his hands apart and not bringing his throwing arm so far behind his body (toward third base). After my son was sideways in his delivery (lefty facing first as he strides out) and gets to the high L position, his front shoulder was adjusted to be about 3 inches higher than his back shoulder, and instead of spinning open he thrusts his core and chest directly forward to the catcher while having a less aggressive rotation.
I am knocking on my wood desk here and hoping he stays healthy for the remainder of the season.
Thanks for the response. Hope he stays healthy and throws the absolute *&^% out of the ball.
R
R
Can you describe what his exact symptoms were and where his arm hurt. My son who is 18 has a pain on the inside of his throwing elbow when it is fully extended, after he has released the ball. He has seen a sports doctor who says it is nothing serious, rest and ice etc. but it continues to bother him. Right now he is on his spring trip but I think he should have an MRI. I wonder if it's his UCL?
My son's elbow pain was on the inside of the elbow, between the what I will call the elbow bone and funny bone---sorry, I'm not a doctor.
As I mentioned before, once the pain started it didn't go away when throwing until after about six weeks rest and physical therapy--a very long time considering our HS baseball season is only about 10 weeks long. Therefore, we put heavy emphasis on injury avoidance and what I call prehabilitation.
As I mentioned before, once the pain started it didn't go away when throwing until after about six weeks rest and physical therapy--a very long time considering our HS baseball season is only about 10 weeks long. Therefore, we put heavy emphasis on injury avoidance and what I call prehabilitation.
mmac,
The doctor is always the one to listen to, not online suggestions.
One test for a UCL problem is to bend the elbow about 30 degrees and then have him push against your hand so as to put a similar load on his arm as he would get during the acceleration phase of throwing. If he feels pain then there may be UCL involvement.
What you've described sounds a bit more like medial epicondylitis. If it is you have to rest him and then come back very, very gradually. It is not fully healed when the pain stops. The biggest problem with medial epicondylitis is that people almost always try to come back too quickly and reinjure it.
At his age it doesn't sound serious enough to require an MRI or X-Ray as he's not likely to have an avulsion and it really doesn't sound like the UCL is involved.
However, if you are concerned it can't hurt anything but your wallet to get a second opinion from a qualified sports medicine doctor.
The doctor is always the one to listen to, not online suggestions.
One test for a UCL problem is to bend the elbow about 30 degrees and then have him push against your hand so as to put a similar load on his arm as he would get during the acceleration phase of throwing. If he feels pain then there may be UCL involvement.
What you've described sounds a bit more like medial epicondylitis. If it is you have to rest him and then come back very, very gradually. It is not fully healed when the pain stops. The biggest problem with medial epicondylitis is that people almost always try to come back too quickly and reinjure it.
At his age it doesn't sound serious enough to require an MRI or X-Ray as he's not likely to have an avulsion and it really doesn't sound like the UCL is involved.
However, if you are concerned it can't hurt anything but your wallet to get a second opinion from a qualified sports medicine doctor.
I curious on this subject because I'm seeing more pitchers who also play football incurring elbow injuries (partial tears). Can there be any relationship to weight training and the type of lifting being done(curls), possible use of creatine, etc. and elbow injuries?
quote:Originally posted by Gamer:
Can there be any relationship to weight training and the type of lifting being done(curls), possible use of creatine, etc. and elbow injuries?
Unlikely, because the type of strain is pretty different.
More likely it's due to simple overuse (and some poor technique). Pitching and playing QB will subject the elbow to similar stress, especially if the pitcher/QB does not pronate as they accelerate the arm and release the ball.
quote:Takes a quality vitamin, glucosamine and fish oil tablet daily.
I applaud you for taking a preventative stance with some quality nutrients. I can't give medical advice to someone I have never met, but it sounds like a good start.
"If it was my son", I may recommend taking 2 or 3 fish oil tablets per day, it seems to work better at slightly higher dosages. I would also make sure that you are taking Glucosamine HCL instead of Glucosamine Sulfate. it is much more pure. 1500 mg of the HCL form is as effective as 2300 mg of the Sulfate form.
I would also say that anyone that is truly concerned with proactively preventing and treating injuries should look into supplementing with digestive enzymes. When taken on an empty stomach, they are very good at minimizing inflammation and keeping tissues healthy. Many professional athletes, especially in Europe, use these as a large part of their supplement programs.
Just my 2 cents.
For the Glucosamine HCL: How many mg per day for a typical college/pro athlete?
quote:Originally posted by NHDad:
For the Glucosamine HCL: How many mg per day for a typical college/pro athlete?
A standard dose would be 1500 mg of Glucosamine HCL with 1200 mg of Chondroiton Sulfate, split into 3 dosages per day to maximize absorption.
Good luck
quote:Originally posted by spinedoc:
A standard dose would be 1500 mg of Glucosamine HCL with 1200 mg of Chondroiton Sulfate, split into 3 dosages per day to maximize absorption.
Weren't these supplements recently demonstrated to be ineffective?
anyone can make ONE study say whatever they want, you have to look at the whole of the research. Kind of like the 1 study that showed that vitamine E was ineffective or harmful at certain dosages, after over 1600 studies had said the exact opposite.
