Ugly Bat Controversy Reared It's Head

Ouch!!!

How long do you have to wait for your protest ruling?

The word is that this a protestable violation. Did you notify the umpire that you were protesting?

If you did, did he then examine the bat and record the information?

agreed....

protest....protest...protest....

Just curious, what was the bat model? Did you or any of your team recognize the illegal bat before the hit?

What will happen if coach2709 wins a protest?

quote:

Originally posted by Cutter Dad:
Just curious, what was the bat model? Did you or any of your team recognize the illegal bat before the hit?

To answer this question quickly I don't know if anybody saw it before. I know I didn't. I'm also the asst. coach so I can't really participate in the discussion with the ump. Our head coach is the one who went out and looked at the bat. He said it was a blue Stealth.

As for the protest I'm not real sure what the procedure is. I'm looking for protests on the state website but can't find anything. I know North Carolina does allow limited protests in certain situations but I'm trying to find out what we can do.

Here is a good story you can take with a grain of salt because I heard from third hand information. In a JV game the umpires threw out every bat from both teams because they were illegal. Since nobody had anymore bats they let the bats they threw out be used so they could play the game. There was no list on site to verify anything. But like I said I got this one third hand so it might be true, not true at all or an embellished version of the story.

This year could be a huge mess.

I think it may be ugly for the first week or so and then it should calm down.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
I think it may be ugly for the first week or so and then it should calm down.

I truly hope so because there are some bad stories floating around. No idea how true they are but they are out there. From umps tossing legal bats, missing illegal bats, coaches and players using illegal bats and trying to sneak back in illegal bats. I hope these are just stories.

I can see at the beginning there being a learning curve. If I give a coach a bad bat and it finds it way back in, it isn't going to be good for him.

Under Fed guidelines we (the umps) are required to check the bats prior to the game. This doesn't mean a player or coach won't try to sneak one in that was hidden beforehand. If an "illegal" gets into the game and someone gets hurt it's going to be bad for, well, a lot of people.

There are no protests allowed in my neck of the woods. So, do I have to ask an ump if he has his list with him??? This is ridiculous isn't it guys.
I know you guys are there to call a good game, not to jack around with this bat junk.

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
There are no protests allowed in my neck of the woods. So, do I have to ask an ump if he has his list with him??? This is ridiculous isn't it guys.
I know you guys are there to call a good game, not to jack around with this bat junk.

its going to be difficult for a while thats for sure.....we spent a good amount of time at our rules interp meeting on the bat issues.... you wont catch me at a game without the list....

Hardest part for me was a few of my hard heads who just said..."when in doubt, throw it out"......no, "when in doubt check the list"....

I will echo what MST said .....if an illegal bat finds its way back into the game after being disqualified its not going to be good for a few people......

I have a list of all legal composite bats. It is approximately 2" x 1.5" in size and easily fits in my lineup card holder. I can read it without glasses. There are only 11 models with a composite barrel that are legal.

Other than that, if it's wood or if it has BESR or BBCOR screened on the bat it's legal. Otherwise, it's not.

It ain't that hard.

quote:

There are only 11 models with a composite barrel that are legal.

This is almost, but not quite true.

There are only 11 models with a "hollow" composite barrel that are legal. There are a number of other BESR bats that are of a composite construction with a "non-hollow" (filled core) barrel that are NFHS compliant. If my count is correct there are 13 bat models in this classification.

This is the list of legal composite bats given to me by my HS association. Which ones did they miss?

Mfr. Model #
DeMarini CF4 (-3) CFB10, CFB11
Vendetta C6 (-3) VCB10, VCB11
Combat B1AB2, B1AB2-R, B2AB1
Louisville Slugger CBXD, CBXT, CB81C, CB83

The list of illegal bats comprises 114 models.

Thanks.

Your association really didn't "miss" any bats. They just provided you with the list of approved hollow composites. These bats are listed, with photos, on the NFHS website as the approved BESR-ABI bats for 2011. There are, as you stated, 11 of them. The hollow composites were the bats of major concern because many of them exceeded the BESR ratings with use over time. These were the bats, predominantly, that people were putting on "rolling" machines that compressed the barrels and increased the trampoline effect dramatically.

Washington State University's Sports Science Lab tested more than 1600 bats. The lab put the bats into four classifications:
A-Hollow Aluminum Alloy
B-Solid Wood, Solid Wood Laminate or Solid Bamboo Laminate
C-Hollow Fiber Composite
D-Other [Not A, B or C](e.g. Multiple Materials)

The Lab didn't do testing specifically for the NFHS but the NFHS used the test results to determine which bats would be OK and which would not.

The findings were that those bats in classifications A, B and D were OK (provided they're BESR) but only certain bats in classification C were acceptable. Those 11 bats in class. C that are OK are on the list you were given. The 13 bats in class. D that are also BESR are OK. They are composite bats in that they are made of more than one material but they're not hollow.

I guess my concern as an umpire was that some of us might be throwing out bats that were actually OK to use because we saw the word composite on the barrel and the bat wasn't on the list of 11.

Are there any solid composites that are illegal. I have a feeling it is no. Many wooden bat leagues allow solid composites.

Michael,

I guess in a highly technical or semantics sense there is solid (one material) and there is composite (more than one). If you're speaking of wood laminates it appears that they fall into classification B and as long as they're BESR they're good. (for NFHS games)

There are bats in class. D that are, say, maple on the outside of the barrel but have an inner core that is another material that serves as a tamping device. Some of the bats are alloy.

Believe me, I'm not an expert on such things. All I can say is this; I've spent what would probably be considered a stupid amount of time over the last 6 weeks trying to obtain information on legal/illegal bats for the high school season. I'm just trying not to get caught short, if that makes any sense.

Finally got word back that in non-conference games (which this was) there are no appeals. In conference games you can set up an appeal committee just in case. But that's basically fans who are on that committee.

Also, in Kentucky there is no appeal whatsoever on anything which I assume is like what trojanskipper said.

So there was nothing we could've done.

I don't understand areas that don't allow protests. Umpires are not infallable and it avoids possible ejections by allowing coaches a method to correct problems.