Does anyone know the repercussions of a coach being ejected from a district game?
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Some districts have a rule that he must sit out the next district game, others do not.
At the very least, he will be making a trip down to Austin for "a little visit" with the UiL.
At the very least, he will be making a trip down to Austin for "a little visit" with the UiL.
He may not have to make a trip to Austin unless the governing chapter elects to send in an incident report. Depending on the severity or less severity of the ejection they may elect not to do so.
Unless a coach is threatening or fails to leave the dugout or is particularly abusive, why would an ump file a report with the UIL? For as long as baseball exists, there will be arguments -- most men in blue know how to handle them...after all, the schools write their paychecks.
The UIL requires ALL ejections of coaches in all sports to be reported, period. The UIL looks at sports to be an extension of the classroom, as it should be. The behavior of the coach, players, fans, and umpires should reflect such.
quote:Originally posted by Outsider:
The UIL requires ALL ejections of coaches in all sports to be reported, period. The UIL looks at sports to be an extension of the classroom, as it should be. The behavior of the coach, players, fans, and umpires should reflect such.
Does that include sub-varsity events?
Yes.
quote:Originally posted by Outsider:
Yes.
Can you cite the rule....Looking for documentation.
Thanks.
Minimum Penalty for Misconduct
(1) Automatic Minimum Penalty. Any coach who is ejected from a contest for unsportsmanlike conduct, or any football coach who is given two or more 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties during a contest may accept an automatic penalty for their ejection or appeal the ejection. A coach who appeals their ejection is required to appear before the State Executive Committee. If the coach accepts their automatic penalty or their ejection is not overturned on appeal, the coach will be subject to:
(A) an automatic penalty of public reprimand (name will be published once in the Leaguer) and one year’s probation in the applicable sport; and
(B) completing an additional UIL Rules Compliance Program; and
(C) completing the National Federation of State High School Associations Teaching and Modeling Behavior Course.
(2) Automatic Greater Penalty. If a coach so penalized has no proof of having completed the UIL Rules Compliance Program prior to the sports season, that coach shall also be automatically suspended from the next game/contest.
(3) Subsequent Violations. Any further ejection or accumulation of two 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties during a football game, while on probation, will require the coach to appear before the State Executive Committee for consideration of penalty.
(4) Notification. Schools shall notify the UIL within three school days if a coach has been ejected from a game or received two 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties.
Link
(1) Automatic Minimum Penalty. Any coach who is ejected from a contest for unsportsmanlike conduct, or any football coach who is given two or more 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties during a contest may accept an automatic penalty for their ejection or appeal the ejection. A coach who appeals their ejection is required to appear before the State Executive Committee. If the coach accepts their automatic penalty or their ejection is not overturned on appeal, the coach will be subject to:
(A) an automatic penalty of public reprimand (name will be published once in the Leaguer) and one year’s probation in the applicable sport; and
(B) completing an additional UIL Rules Compliance Program; and
(C) completing the National Federation of State High School Associations Teaching and Modeling Behavior Course.
(2) Automatic Greater Penalty. If a coach so penalized has no proof of having completed the UIL Rules Compliance Program prior to the sports season, that coach shall also be automatically suspended from the next game/contest.
(3) Subsequent Violations. Any further ejection or accumulation of two 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties during a football game, while on probation, will require the coach to appear before the State Executive Committee for consideration of penalty.
(4) Notification. Schools shall notify the UIL within three school days if a coach has been ejected from a game or received two 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalties.
Link
Since I've last posted on this thread, I was ejected for the first...and only...ball game of my career.
I did not go to Austin and the reason being was that so many coaches get ejected from games around the state, that the UIL does not have time to meet with all of them. I had to take a couple of online courses through the NFHS website, print off the certificate, and give it to my athletic director.
The umpires don't have to report it, but the coach had better report it to their campus coordinator, principal, or Athletic Director if none of them were in attendance.
I did not go to Austin and the reason being was that so many coaches get ejected from games around the state, that the UIL does not have time to meet with all of them. I had to take a couple of online courses through the NFHS website, print off the certificate, and give it to my athletic director.
The umpires don't have to report it, but the coach had better report it to their campus coordinator, principal, or Athletic Director if none of them were in attendance.
FD, same thing happened to me the other night. Spoke with the umpire after the game about the situation and he said that he will see it as "putting me in the dugout" instead of an ejection...so no report.
Problem we have a baseball coaches as opposed to basketball or football is that sometimes there is no warning. In basketball after you get your first "T", you know to toe the line...same in football after the first flag.
I understand that many umpires will tell you "that's enough" (which is our first "T") but this was not afforded to me when I said "that's not even close to the zone." Which was followed by "you're gone, Coach." There were no previous flare-ups, arguing or anything like it so I was obviously shocked.
Anyways, good to hear you didn't have to make the long drive with Sup in the car...would have made for a long trip.
Problem we have a baseball coaches as opposed to basketball or football is that sometimes there is no warning. In basketball after you get your first "T", you know to toe the line...same in football after the first flag.
I understand that many umpires will tell you "that's enough" (which is our first "T") but this was not afforded to me when I said "that's not even close to the zone." Which was followed by "you're gone, Coach." There were no previous flare-ups, arguing or anything like it so I was obviously shocked.
Anyways, good to hear you didn't have to make the long drive with Sup in the car...would have made for a long trip.
I've heard umps refer to "removing" a coach/player from a game, which they consider to be different than an ejection....and they don't report "removals".
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
I've heard umps refer to "removing" a coach/player from a game, which they consider to be different than an ejection....and they don't report "removals".
That is what he meant by "putting me in the dugout." He was gracious with it when he did not have to be, but in my opinion this should be the norm.
Coach won't shut up, put him in the dugout (not allowed on the field), if he continues then he is ejected. In basketball, a coach always has to get the first technical before he gets the second (unless it is very abusive).
This thread is funny... just an FYI... because of a situation last year where an umpire dumped a coach and did not sent in the paperwork to UIL just to his AD to be a nice guy I guess. UIL found out that the coach was dumped and confronted the umpire on why he did not submit paperwork... also we do understand that a coach being ejected can cause problems within your school and UIL it is not something we like to do but then again... there is a limit on your actions.
...anyway since then UIL has told us they want reports on ejections and ALL restrictions to the dugout also. Not sure what they do with the restrictions but I know that they are sent in. Also there is no such thing in Texas HS baseball to restrict a player... just ejection.
And for the coaches that say "I didn't get a warning" why do I have to warn you, you know what is off limits... so don't go there... When you hear this being yelled from across the field "Where was that pitch?!" you have pretty much just warned yourself...
...anyway since then UIL has told us they want reports on ejections and ALL restrictions to the dugout also. Not sure what they do with the restrictions but I know that they are sent in. Also there is no such thing in Texas HS baseball to restrict a player... just ejection.
And for the coaches that say "I didn't get a warning" why do I have to warn you, you know what is off limits... so don't go there... When you hear this being yelled from across the field "Where was that pitch?!" you have pretty much just warned yourself...
TX-UMP 74,
Every situation is different. Coaches are in the wrong at times, and so are umpires. My incident was not reported because the field umpire reported back to the chapter that I should not have been ejected from the game. The umpire came to the dugout to confront me about being "in the dugout." He was wrong as to what "the dugout" was based on the pregame meeting in which the home team's coach went over the ground rules. When I told him he was wrong he ejected me...real professional!
I know there are a lot of negative things that come from the dugout, most if not all are uncalled for. However, from my perspective (which you do not have) while coaching 3rd base...when I see a catcher reach down to his right and back hand a pitch...and its called a strike...it just "looks" like a missed call. With less than 2 strikes I will tell my hitter "good take" because I don't want him swinging at that and he made a good decision not to.
I don't expect umpires to be perfect, goodness knows I'm not perfect. If the strike zone is consistent, regardless of where it is, that is fine with me and my team will adjust to it.
Every situation is different. Coaches are in the wrong at times, and so are umpires. My incident was not reported because the field umpire reported back to the chapter that I should not have been ejected from the game. The umpire came to the dugout to confront me about being "in the dugout." He was wrong as to what "the dugout" was based on the pregame meeting in which the home team's coach went over the ground rules. When I told him he was wrong he ejected me...real professional!
I know there are a lot of negative things that come from the dugout, most if not all are uncalled for. However, from my perspective (which you do not have) while coaching 3rd base...when I see a catcher reach down to his right and back hand a pitch...and its called a strike...it just "looks" like a missed call. With less than 2 strikes I will tell my hitter "good take" because I don't want him swinging at that and he made a good decision not to.
I don't expect umpires to be perfect, goodness knows I'm not perfect. If the strike zone is consistent, regardless of where it is, that is fine with me and my team will adjust to it.
quote:Originally posted by funneldrill:
TX-UMP 74,
Every situation is different. Coaches are in the wrong at times, and so are umpires. My incident was not reported because the field umpire reported back to the chapter that I should not have been ejected from the game. The umpire came to the dugout to confront me about being "in the dugout." He was wrong as to what "the dugout" was based on the pregame meeting in which the home team's coach went over the ground rules. When I told him he was wrong he ejected me...real professional!
I know there are a lot of negative things that come from the dugout, most if not all are uncalled for. However, from my perspective (which you do not have) while coaching 3rd base...when I see a catcher reach down to his right and back hand a pitch...and its called a strike...it just "looks" like a missed call. With less than 2 strikes I will tell my hitter "good take" because I don't want him swinging at that and he made a good decision not to.
I don't expect umpires to be perfect, goodness knows I'm not perfect. If the strike zone is consistent, regardless of where it is, that is fine with me and my team will adjust to it.
FD, that's enough...umpires will not discuss balls and strikes. Your gone!
lol
I don't discuss balls and strikes with them because I know better. Believe me, I scout umpires as much as I scout my opponents. For the most part I know the guys in my chapter and what their strike zones are like.
My hitters and I have a 2 strike philosophy...don't trust the guy behind the catcher.
My hitters and I have a 2 strike philosophy...don't trust the guy behind the catcher.
TX-Ump.....
Why is asking "where was that pitch?" an issue? It's a question that allows the pitcher/catcher/coach to make adjustments. And from a logical standpoint, if the umpire cannot answer that simple question, it means he doesn't know (which is a HUGE problem).
Why is asking "where was that pitch?" an issue? It's a question that allows the pitcher/catcher/coach to make adjustments. And from a logical standpoint, if the umpire cannot answer that simple question, it means he doesn't know (which is a HUGE problem).
quote:Originally posted by Clemson896:
TX-Ump.....
Why is asking "where was that pitch?" an issue? It's a question that allows the pitcher/catcher/coach to make adjustments. And from a logical standpoint, if the umpire cannot answer that simple question, it means he doesn't know (which is a HUGE problem).
Like it or not it is an issue. That is why my catcher gives me a signal to let me know that the pitch was really a strike.
It beats arguing every pitch that is thrown. There are some coaches out there that argue EVERY pitch. Those guys wear me out! My question is, why are certain coaches given that kind of latitude and others are not?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not condoning arguing balls and strikes the entire game. But if a pitcher is showing good command/control of his pitches and they are consistently "just missing," then it would be nice to get an explanation from the umpire as to where they are missing.
As a former catcher, I think these questions are taken better from catchers rather than coaches. During a game/season, catchers and umpires often develop an informal relationship (from my experience). No one should get upset for being asked a reasonable question in a respectful manner.
As a former catcher, I think these questions are taken better from catchers rather than coaches. During a game/season, catchers and umpires often develop an informal relationship (from my experience). No one should get upset for being asked a reasonable question in a respectful manner.
quote:Originally posted by TX-Ump74:
This thread is funny... just an FYI... because of a situation last year where an umpire dumped a coach and did not sent in the paperwork to UIL just to his AD to be a nice guy I guess. UIL found out that the coach was dumped and confronted the umpire on why he did not submit paperwork... also we do understand that a coach being ejected can cause problems within your school and UIL it is not something we like to do but then again... there is a limit on your actions.
...anyway since then UIL has told us they want reports on ejections and ALL restrictions to the dugout also. Not sure what they do with the restrictions but I know that they are sent in. Also there is no such thing in Texas HS baseball to restrict a player... just ejection.
And for the coaches that say "I didn't get a warning" why do I have to warn you, you know what is off limits... so don't go there... When you hear this being yelled from across the field "Where was that pitch?" you have pretty much just warned yourself...
TX-Ump, What is your opinion on this scenario? Coach calls time to discuss a call in private face to face with umpire. He is calm and civil about it. He asks the umpire,"How did you see the play?" He is given an explanation he doesn't agree with and says the words, "That's ridiculous" to the umpire. Only the umpire can hear him. The umpire immediately ejects the coach from the game. From an umpires point of view, do you think it is a fair ejection? Are coaches not to ever disagree with the umpire or express their disagreement even when it is done in private and in a calm manner? There is a lot at stake for coaches when they are thrown out of a game. You say they "know their limits and should not go there". I think that the limits change with the umpire and that is why coaches need a warning.
quote:Originally posted by Clemson896:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not condoning arguing balls and strikes the entire game. But if a pitcher is showing good command/control of his pitches and they are consistently "just missing," then it would be nice to get an explanation from the umpire as to where they are missing.
As a former catcher, I think these questions are taken better from catchers rather than coaches. During a game/season, catchers and umpires often develop an informal relationship (from my experience). No one should get upset for being asked a reasonable question in a respectful manner.
I totally agree with you on this. When my catcher doesn't move his glove, and its called a ball, I'll ask the catcher and he either gives me the signal or not. I encourage my catcher to develop a positive rapport with the umpire...be respectful and never show him up. There have been a few times this year where the umpire has told the catcher to let me know that he missed a pitch and that he was sorry. I respect that, but I'd still rather him not miss the pitch.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by funneldrill:
That is why my catcher gives me a signal to let me know that the pitch was really a strike.QUOTE]
I like using that type of indirect communication, too. I did have an umpire pick up on a very subtle signal the catcher relayed each time a strike was called a ball. The umpire's comment to the C: "Keep that up and the strike zone will evaporate." He and I had a very different, not so subtle conversation after the inning.
That is why my catcher gives me a signal to let me know that the pitch was really a strike.QUOTE]
I like using that type of indirect communication, too. I did have an umpire pick up on a very subtle signal the catcher relayed each time a strike was called a ball. The umpire's comment to the C: "Keep that up and the strike zone will evaporate." He and I had a very different, not so subtle conversation after the inning.
I use the three P principal in deciding if anyone needs ejected. If the issue becomes prolonged, personal, or profane, I eject. I have ejected one coach in 12 years. Ejection is not something anyone wants to do.
Sorry for grammar problems and spelling... I am trying to watch the masters online and this is getting in my way...
See above...It’s all about how you ask… there are not to many umpires that will be responsive to this... you are questioning his judgment in front of everyone and you also insight fans to do the same... If a cocach makes a bad decision how would he feel about me yelling out at him "What were you thinking about when you sent that guy?"
If you want to know where the pitches are missing just come up and ask between innings, “DON”T YELL FROM THE DUGOUT OR COME OUT right then”. Most umpires will tell you what he is seeing but do not make it confrontational, do not tell me I am missing pitches or you will just get in trouble quickly. It really is about how you do approach the umpire.
In the same breath…there are Red A$$ umpires who will not talk with you at all… cannot help that.
Finally, if the coach and the catcher have there little signals about the pitches... no big deal but if the catcher throws me under the bus in front of everyone and it is obvious (especially if I just told him I missed it)… I will take care of that… we are not perfect and when I miss a pitch I do not feel good about it and if it was really bad (which happens, not often though LOL) I tell the catcher... that one is on me and loud enough for the batter to hear also so he knows that he is not going to get that free one again… Also if I tell the batter/catcher I missed one… it is NOT a topic of conversation later at “ANY POINT” bring it up and you will be dumped.
...quote:Originally posted by Clemson896:
TX-Ump.....
Why is asking "where was that pitch?" an issue? It's a question that allows the pitcher/catcher/coach to make adjustments. And from a logical standpoint, if the umpire cannot answer that simple question, it means he doesn't know (which is a HUGE problem).
quote:Originally posted by TX-Ump74:
When you hear this being yelled from across the field "Where was that pitch?!" you have pretty much just warned yourself...
See above...It’s all about how you ask… there are not to many umpires that will be responsive to this... you are questioning his judgment in front of everyone and you also insight fans to do the same... If a cocach makes a bad decision how would he feel about me yelling out at him "What were you thinking about when you sent that guy?"
quote:Originally posted by Clemson896:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not condoning arguing balls and strikes the entire game. But if a pitcher is showing good command/control of his pitches and they are consistently "just missing," then it would be nice to get an explanation from the umpire as to where they are missing.
If you want to know where the pitches are missing just come up and ask between innings, “DON”T YELL FROM THE DUGOUT OR COME OUT right then”. Most umpires will tell you what he is seeing but do not make it confrontational, do not tell me I am missing pitches or you will just get in trouble quickly. It really is about how you do approach the umpire.
In the same breath…there are Red A$$ umpires who will not talk with you at all… cannot help that.
Finally, if the coach and the catcher have there little signals about the pitches... no big deal but if the catcher throws me under the bus in front of everyone and it is obvious (especially if I just told him I missed it)… I will take care of that… we are not perfect and when I miss a pitch I do not feel good about it and if it was really bad (which happens, not often though LOL) I tell the catcher... that one is on me and loud enough for the batter to hear also so he knows that he is not going to get that free one again… Also if I tell the batter/catcher I missed one… it is NOT a topic of conversation later at “ANY POINT” bring it up and you will be dumped.
quote:Originally posted by cmcconnell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by funneldrill:
That is why my catcher gives me a signal to let me know that the pitch was really a strike.QUOTE]
I like using that type of indirect communication, too. I did have an umpire pick up on a very subtle signal the catcher relayed each time a strike was called a ball. The umpire's comment to the C: "Keep that up and the strike zone will evaporate." He and I had a very different, not so subtle conversation after the inning.
It's all in the pre-game......feel out the umpire if he is having a bad day and you can sense it watch how you question calls. Everyone can have a short fuse and umpires are not immune.
FD , at least you dont have to deal with forks this year!!! Big game tomorrow Marcus vs Flow Mo, this game could be the game of the week!! 
Longballs, you are correct. I sent a text to the current coaching staff at Marcus last week reminding them to keep the forks in the office this year!
As for tonights game, the Marauders really need this one! So do the Jags for that matter! Should be great drama as it usually is.
As for tonights game, the Marauders really need this one! So do the Jags for that matter! Should be great drama as it usually is.
Umpires are there for the kids and the coaches, not the other way around. The game is not about you Blue. Get the chip off your shoulders. These young men and coaches spend hour upon hour, and its a shame that they get the bats taken out of their hands because the Blue got yelled at for putting non synthetic in the customers car when the owner wanted Royal Purple.
Call the game as you see it, but understand you are there for the kids and the coaches. Umpires should be held accountable just like the kids and coaches. Why is there nothing put in place for when an umpire tosses a kid or coach when the umpire intiated it? If an umpire dumps someone and they shouldnt have been tossed the umpire should have to answer to someone. ie...possibly losing their job. Which is what a coach faces if he gets tossed.
"Never let the fear of striking out get in your way." Babe Ruth
Call the game as you see it, but understand you are there for the kids and the coaches. Umpires should be held accountable just like the kids and coaches. Why is there nothing put in place for when an umpire tosses a kid or coach when the umpire intiated it? If an umpire dumps someone and they shouldnt have been tossed the umpire should have to answer to someone. ie...possibly losing their job. Which is what a coach faces if he gets tossed.
"Never let the fear of striking out get in your way." Babe Ruth
Umpires would not have a chip on their shoulders if the schools would just give us a place to keep our Seeing Eye dogs while we are on the field. My dog barks once for a strike, twice for a ball. The only time I miss a pitch is when my dog is licking his b****. Just today, I got yelled at for putting non synthetic in the customer’s car when the owner wanted Royal Purple. I hope that getting yelled at will not make me forget its all about the kids.
"I couldn't see well enough to play when I was a boy, so they gave me a special job - they made me an umpire." - President of the United States Harry S. Truman
"I couldn't see well enough to play when I was a boy, so they gave me a special job - they made me an umpire." - President of the United States Harry S. Truman
quote:My dog barks once for a strike, twice for a ball. The only time I miss a pitch is when my dog is licking his b****
Classic
quote:Originally posted by LionPop:quote:My dog barks once for a strike, twice for a ball. The only time I miss a pitch is when my dog is licking his b****
Classic
blindguy...I salute you! That is the line of the year!!!
quote:Originally posted by Great Bambino:
Call the game as you see it, but understand you are there for the kids and the coaches. Umpires should be held accountable just like the kids and coaches. Why is there nothing put in place for when an umpire tosses a kid or coach when the umpire intiated it? If an umpire dumps someone and they shouldnt have been tossed the umpire should have to answer to someone. ie...possibly losing their job. Which is what a coach faces if he gets tossed.
"Never let the fear of striking out get in your way." Babe Ruth
Saw this happen last week....shame.
quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Unless a coach is threatening or fails to leave the dugout or is particularly abusive, why would an ump file a report with the UIL? For as long as baseball exists, there will be arguments -- most men in blue know how to handle them...after all, the schools write their paychecks.
Ran into an one last week who doesn't see it that way.....
TX-UMP74,
I really liked your last post. Extremely insightful.
I really liked your last post. Extremely insightful.
quote:Originally posted by funneldrill:
TX-UMP74,
I really liked your last post. Extremely insightful.
Thanks... it really is pretty simple.