Article in today's DMN. Hats off to Mesquite ISD for being one of the few districts to test.http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/highsch...spohsuil.d4498f.html
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Texan son's HS is testing. But not at the level or frequency I would like to see.
Texan,
I appauld your school as well.
wish our district would implement testing on any level......
I appauld your school as well.
wish our district would implement testing on any level......
Our high school (Georgetown) has implemented random testing (every month, but not necessarily every 30 days). There were a few complaints, but by and large it is welcomed by parents and players. My son has been "randomly" selected for 8 of the 9 months, so he has the drill down by now. According to my son, if a student misses a drug screen that they have been selected to take, they must take it the next day or it is an automatic "positive" result.
I am going to take the contrarian view on this one and probably some heat, but here goes anyway. Per the DMN 4138 tests with one positive.
Doesn't seem worth the cost to me. The majority of the real cheaters many times find a way around testing (taking in summer, off season, etc.) anyway.
Also if athletes are to be tested for steroids, each and every student should subject to random testing for other illegal drugs, alchohol, etc. IMO.
Doesn't seem worth the cost to me. The majority of the real cheaters many times find a way around testing (taking in summer, off season, etc.) anyway.
Also if athletes are to be tested for steroids, each and every student should subject to random testing for other illegal drugs, alchohol, etc. IMO.
H&U:
I certainly appreciate your point of view and, yeah, I was surprised by how few positive tests were reported. I also agree that while you're looking, why not take a broader approach and check for other drugs. I don't have a problem with that. However, while certainly the athlete's health and well-being are the overriding issues, so too is enhancing one's ability to compete (cheating) and thereby enhancing one's stock over another's. (That is, steroids help you cheat. Drugs and alcohol, at least the ones I assume you're talking about, don't.) Sorry to be so narrow-minded on that point.
I would also question how many positive results there would be if the testing programs were "sprung" on the programs, not announced several months in advance after even more months of debate. What was revealed here in the DFW metroplex last year sort of debunks that 1 in 4,000 statistic reported in the DMN, I think.
Bottom line: These programs seem to be a fabulous deterrent and my hat's off to the districts that have instituted them.
As far as the cost goes, anyone else out there underwhelmed by the $19,000 annual price tag? We've got $25 million dollar stadiums being erected. $19k's a rounding error.
My two cents anyway...
I certainly appreciate your point of view and, yeah, I was surprised by how few positive tests were reported. I also agree that while you're looking, why not take a broader approach and check for other drugs. I don't have a problem with that. However, while certainly the athlete's health and well-being are the overriding issues, so too is enhancing one's ability to compete (cheating) and thereby enhancing one's stock over another's. (That is, steroids help you cheat. Drugs and alcohol, at least the ones I assume you're talking about, don't.) Sorry to be so narrow-minded on that point.
I would also question how many positive results there would be if the testing programs were "sprung" on the programs, not announced several months in advance after even more months of debate. What was revealed here in the DFW metroplex last year sort of debunks that 1 in 4,000 statistic reported in the DMN, I think.
Bottom line: These programs seem to be a fabulous deterrent and my hat's off to the districts that have instituted them.
As far as the cost goes, anyone else out there underwhelmed by the $19,000 annual price tag? We've got $25 million dollar stadiums being erected. $19k's a rounding error.
My two cents anyway...
quote:Per the DMN 4138 tests with one positive
H&U we do share that contrarian view.
I did not know that these results would be available this quickly, but , although I expected the results to be very low, (about 3%)am actually surpised that is is that low.
http://monitoringthefuture.org/
I was fortunate to encounter this information several years ago, likely as a result of this website, and would encourage you to take some time to read and understand this information if you have concerns about drug use amoung students and in society in general.
The report has more than 25 years of history, is very comprehensive, and given credibilty by its continued funding by the government.
This study, in general indicates that drug use (by category) is down from previous generations, a fact that will surprise many of you.
Our country was founded on principles supporting a free society. I hate to see our schools empowered with this authority, when I have seen how they have utilized other enforecement procedures at their disposal.
While the loss of life for any person from drug use is sad, the testing process and the limitations of those tests are not likely to reduce current levels of drug use.
Interestingly, while we are presented with the Dallas school district, and access to information on the website I have referred to, there are those that still want to believe that every student and every student athlete are using drugs.
It is simply not the case.
I might be missing the point of the article as I miss most points. But I understood the article to say that of the 53 schools testing for steroids, only 1 in 4000+ tests were positive. That's a ringing endorsement for testing, and certainly not a statement that the tests are a waste. Compare that to the number in the research piece (great read, by the way) you provided us, FO, and that is a statistically incredible reduction. Did I miss something?
On the other hand, I do see your point about not wanting to empower our schools. It's our job as parents. I hope we're qualified. (I'm getting liberal in my old age.)
On the other hand, I do see your point about not wanting to empower our schools. It's our job as parents. I hope we're qualified. (I'm getting liberal in my old age.)
Here's an eye opener I just got off the General Forum:
For more on this go to:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/prep/cst-spt-prep23.html
I totally agree that if testing is going to happen in a school district then they should for all drugs and test all students.
If my district was to propose this I would support it 100%. At a cost of $19,000 a year with a student population of 2,757 it would cost me $6.90 a year, peanuts................for a safety net.
quote:A recent study conducted by the National Institute on Drug Abuse revealed that 3.5 percent of high school seniors nationwide admitted to using steroids at least once in 2005.
The National Center for Disease Control reported that between 1991 and 2003, steroid use more than doubled among high school students. More than 6 percent of 15,000 students acknowledged they tried steroid pills or shots at least once.
For more on this go to:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/prep/cst-spt-prep23.html
I totally agree that if testing is going to happen in a school district then they should for all drugs and test all students.
If my district was to propose this I would support it 100%. At a cost of $19,000 a year with a student population of 2,757 it would cost me $6.90 a year, peanuts................for a safety net.
quote:It's our job as parents. I hope we're qualified.
JABO, I sure like your name, I think most of us expected the number of positive tests for steroids to be far higher.
The study, if you read the fine print, I think means that about 2.6% of the sample (a large national sample) had tried steroids at least once in their lifetime, not necessarily an indication of regular use.
The DMN article indicates a positive test for steroid use.
I would not attribute testing to reducing the steroid use from 2.6% to 1%.
They have only been sampling for steroid use since 1989 and the percentages have always been less that 3%.
There were also some NCAA test results probably still somewhere on their site, and if my memory serves me correctly, about 100 out of 10,000 tests were positive.
Then the "well they knew about the tests the day before stuff starts", but if you read widely and closely of credible material (not the newspaper) you will see a pattern develop that indicates numbers similar to what we are discussing here.
Not as high as what is normally perceived, in my opinion.
I am always impressed when I attend functions at the high school (like graduation, a recent funeral, but mainly ballgames of course) and college of just how impressive the kids of this generation are.
I hate to see them and the athletes especially so broadly categorized.
While I am for drug testing on students/athletes. My children while they were
attending school seemed to be picked more then the "so called" superstars.
These are the kids that most of the time are taking steroids or the kids that
are on the verge of becoming a much better player want that extra boost. IMO
So, the random testing really is not that random. Teachers or Coaches have input
to who the testers test. I have seen some of the kids in-town and within one year
they are bigger, and the mood swings. That is not just lifting weights alone.
With all that said. Drug testing should be performed on all athletes no matter
what the cost. The parents and the students who complain are more than likely going to be the guilty ones. again IMO
attending school seemed to be picked more then the "so called" superstars.
These are the kids that most of the time are taking steroids or the kids that
are on the verge of becoming a much better player want that extra boost. IMO
So, the random testing really is not that random. Teachers or Coaches have input
to who the testers test. I have seen some of the kids in-town and within one year
they are bigger, and the mood swings. That is not just lifting weights alone.
With all that said. Drug testing should be performed on all athletes no matter
what the cost. The parents and the students who complain are more than likely going to be the guilty ones. again IMO
quote:"I think this says that our schools are concerned about steroid abuse, and we want to make sure we get down the correct information about it," said committee member Dr. Cary Tanamachi. "The thing I'm pleased to see is the majority of our students are not abusing the drug."
quote:A testing program began in schools in 1996, and 10 positive results for anabolic steroids have been discovered. According to the survey, 4,138 tests given last year yielded one positive result.
From the DMN article referred to above. I added the bolding for emphasis.
FO, I figured you'd appreciate my name. Fits me, doesn't it?
I'm not sure how we are coming to such completely different conclusions on the same aritcle. The DMN article seems to be suggesting that the testing policies are greatly reducing the incidence of positive tests. It is not saying that steroid use in general is low.
I'm not making broad generalizations that the kids are all juiced up. I am, however, saying emphatically that 2 or 3% should keep you up at night. Any testing policy that can reduce it from 2% down to near 0, which is what the DMN would indicate it did, certainly merits a discussion.
I'm not sure how we are coming to such completely different conclusions on the same aritcle. The DMN article seems to be suggesting that the testing policies are greatly reducing the incidence of positive tests. It is not saying that steroid use in general is low.
I'm not making broad generalizations that the kids are all juiced up. I am, however, saying emphatically that 2 or 3% should keep you up at night. Any testing policy that can reduce it from 2% down to near 0, which is what the DMN would indicate it did, certainly merits a discussion.
dfwdad08,
I think it is unfair to catagorize the "superstars" as the "kids that are most of the time taking steroids". I have found that these players seem to get where they are because of a talent for the game and by spending countless hours outside of school, over the summer, thru the winter working at their game.
I would think that the kids lacking the skill or not willing to put in the hours would be the ones most likely to cheat.
As far as gaining weight is concerned, my son has put on over 40lbs of muscle weight in about 2 1/2 years, NO STEROIDS. While he is not a "superstar" by any means, he is having a good year. I heard from a friend last week that there was a "rumor" going around town that his success and muscle gain was due to steroids. Might as well call him a cheater.
This type of ignorance (not yours) and unbelief that kids cannot be "that big" or "that good" without cheating usually comes from the group of people and/or parents whos kids aren't performing to the standard set by the others IMO.
I too, like FO am very impressed by the caliber of young men that my son plays ball with, and agree that they should not be so broadly catagorized.
If testing is right for the athletes then it is right for all students.
I think it is unfair to catagorize the "superstars" as the "kids that are most of the time taking steroids". I have found that these players seem to get where they are because of a talent for the game and by spending countless hours outside of school, over the summer, thru the winter working at their game.
I would think that the kids lacking the skill or not willing to put in the hours would be the ones most likely to cheat.
As far as gaining weight is concerned, my son has put on over 40lbs of muscle weight in about 2 1/2 years, NO STEROIDS. While he is not a "superstar" by any means, he is having a good year. I heard from a friend last week that there was a "rumor" going around town that his success and muscle gain was due to steroids. Might as well call him a cheater.
This type of ignorance (not yours) and unbelief that kids cannot be "that big" or "that good" without cheating usually comes from the group of people and/or parents whos kids aren't performing to the standard set by the others IMO.
I too, like FO am very impressed by the caliber of young men that my son plays ball with, and agree that they should not be so broadly catagorized.
If testing is right for the athletes then it is right for all students.
quote:The DMN article seems to be suggesting that the testing policies are greatly reducing the incidence of positive tests
I didn't see where they indicated what the original level of positive tests was.
The sentence I quoted and highlighted above says they caught 10 taking steroids in TEN YEARS of testing.
And, last year, of 4,000 tests administered they caught 1.
They ain't very good testers or there ain't many taking steroids.
And, if you think about it a little more deeply, don't you imagine that that ain't the same 4,000 tested every year, since some of them graduate.
And, yow, there's is only one person over there at the old school that is justabitoutside.
Didn't he sign somewhere?
quote:Originally posted by dfwdad08:
the random testing really is not that random. Teachers or Coaches have input
to who the testers test.
I wouldn't generalize that all programs (hs or college) cut corners this way but
I think there is some truth to dfwdad08's statement. Just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by honest and unbiased:
I think it is unfair to catagorize the "superstars" as the "kids that are most of the time taking steroids".
As far as gaining weight is concerned, my son has put on over 40lbs of muscle weight in about 2 1/2 years, NO STEROIDS. While he is not a "superstar" by any means, he is having a good year. I heard from a friend last week that there was a "rumor" going around town that his success and muscle gain was due to steroids. Might as well call him a cheater.
If testing is right for the athletes then it is right for all students.
HAU,
You are correct "superstar" bad choice of words..My bad.
However, Your sons weight gain over a 2 1/2 year period is not far fetched. The key though is the
2 1/2 years, It took him to get to that level. After all muscle does weigh more than fat.
I have seen kids bulk up over the summer and there is no way they can bulk up that fast on
that short of time and their attitude change and is not just because they are a teenager.
According to the "so-called" experts (is so-called okay....just kidding)
.mood swings are key to detecting drug use, and that most cases is missed because
the parents, coaches, and teachers think it is the teenage attitude.
Tell HAU son to keep working hard and continue to stay clean. The only people who really lose
in the long run are the users. ie Barry Bonds...Hat size does not increase on a grown man.
I need some sleep...
For the record - I do not favor random drug tests administered on U.S. citizens without warrant or cause. Surely, most of us participating on these boards are old enough to have been required to read Animal Farm (I almost wrote Animal House 
) and 1984 during our school years.
When federal, state, and local government (i.e. school districts) expand their powers over the citizenry by successfully reducing or restricting personal civil rights (enforcing random drug tests), these governmental offices are emboldened to seek out the next policy they can dream up to 'protect us from ourselves'. This is a slippery slope; one which is difficult to climb back up after relinquishing your freedoms.
) and 1984 during our school years. When federal, state, and local government (i.e. school districts) expand their powers over the citizenry by successfully reducing or restricting personal civil rights (enforcing random drug tests), these governmental offices are emboldened to seek out the next policy they can dream up to 'protect us from ourselves'. This is a slippery slope; one which is difficult to climb back up after relinquishing your freedoms.
Ok,,,,,,,so what good is signing a Morals Clause for sports/extra curricular activities if it isn't good for anything? If you don't have testing then if you enforce a Morals Clause are you enforcing it based on what you thought someone did, heard something they did or saw something they did?
dbg_fan,
Are you one of the people who sued or lobbied to get prayer and the pledge of allegence out of schools ?
Are you one of the people who sued or lobbied to get prayer and the pledge of allegence out of schools ?
I put on at least that much over the Christmas holiday season. Probably not all muscle though. Can't say it wasn't steroids as I'm not totally sure what they feed turkeys these days.quote:As far as gaining weight is concerned, my son has put on over 40lbs of muscle weight in about 2 1/2 years, NO STEROIDS.
Since the topic has broadened a little...go home tonight and ask your son about drug and alcohol use in school. You might be surprised what he says. Mine has told me he has witnessed kids doing cocaine in class, and you might be very surprised what the clear fluid in the water bottle is. In class, at the party, or any other place they might be.
Bottom line, I test randomly... I believe it is one tool to use as a deterrent.
Bottom line, I test randomly... I believe it is one tool to use as a deterrent.
quote:When federal, state, and local government (i.e. school districts) expand their powers over the citizenry by successfully reducing or restricting personal civil rights (enforcing random drug tests), these governmental offices are emboldened to seek out the next policy they can dream up to 'protect us from ourselves'. This is a slippery slope; one which is difficult to climb back up after relinquishing your freedoms.
Excellent post, dbg_fan.
Difficult concept these days, though.............
T-Ball,
Heard some of the same stuff from time to time from this end. Not quite as bad as cocaine in class but still some alarming stuff.
While I don't test my son now, if he gave me any reason to doubt or suspect him, I would. If caught, random testing at school would be the least of his worries.
I for one believe that this responsibility lies with the parents, not the school administraters.
Heard some of the same stuff from time to time from this end. Not quite as bad as cocaine in class but still some alarming stuff.
While I don't test my son now, if he gave me any reason to doubt or suspect him, I would. If caught, random testing at school would be the least of his worries.
I for one believe that this responsibility lies with the parents, not the school administraters.
OBN -- perhaps we can monitor the MySpace accounts as part of the morality clause. OOPS, we've been there, discussed that!
I should be working, but...
I will not be tested unless you have a warrant or cause. I will not allow police officials to search or seize property without a warrant or cause. If you concede to random tests without warrant or cause, which constitutional right will your government ask you to cede next?
Let's use a current example. Your state legislature, complicit with the TX Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC), has passed a law that allows TABC agents to arrest persons in a bar for public intoxication when the agent thinks that person may be drunk. An overly loud table of patrons sipping on their first Coors Lite (may as well be water) can appear intoxicated and may be arrested by TABC agents. This is absurd, and it is an example of how government (big brother) repeals your constitutional rights while explaining to you that you are being protected for your own good.
dfwdad - FWIW I support morning rituals in schools that promote patriotism by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. And the one true God I worship allows me to pray anytime, anywhere regardless of the policies of government or school administrations.
I will not be tested unless you have a warrant or cause. I will not allow police officials to search or seize property without a warrant or cause. If you concede to random tests without warrant or cause, which constitutional right will your government ask you to cede next?
Let's use a current example. Your state legislature, complicit with the TX Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC), has passed a law that allows TABC agents to arrest persons in a bar for public intoxication when the agent thinks that person may be drunk. An overly loud table of patrons sipping on their first Coors Lite (may as well be water
) can appear intoxicated and may be arrested by TABC agents. This is absurd, and it is an example of how government (big brother) repeals your constitutional rights while explaining to you that you are being protected for your own good.dfwdad - FWIW I support morning rituals in schools that promote patriotism by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. And the one true God I worship allows me to pray anytime, anywhere regardless of the policies of government or school administrations.
H&U:
I have a friend that has a home test kit in their kitchen, it is there, never been used but just the fact that it is there ready to be used has been enough to keep their son on his toes.
I have contemplated that myself as it would work both ways if I thought my son was engaging and he knew he wasn't then he would want as much to prove me wrong as I would want to test him. So far, no concerns here- THANK GOODNESS.
PD look for a PM from me....
I have a friend that has a home test kit in their kitchen, it is there, never been used but just the fact that it is there ready to be used has been enough to keep their son on his toes.
I have contemplated that myself as it would work both ways if I thought my son was engaging and he knew he wasn't then he would want as much to prove me wrong as I would want to test him. So far, no concerns here- THANK GOODNESS.
PD look for a PM from me....
Tough discussion here BUT ...IMO I agree with T-Ball. We must test our kids randomly (for all drugs not just steriods) soon or we will end up reading yet another sad story about an athlete and a tragic ending.
Why do they take them? The pressure of the game? Seeing what they see on TV from their hero's? When Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, Palmiero, Sosa, Pudge can all go from skinny little ruts into hitting these 500 ft HR's it makes our kids all wonder if they too can improve their game by taking enhancement type substances.
I would check any HS athlete adding 40pds of muscle within 2 plus yrs no matter who they are and in whatever sport especially a HS athlete. Not picking on anyone (rather be safe than sorry later saying if I only did this). IMO, talking to our kids about supplements of any kind should be done by the school and at home. We have all heard of kids taking supplements and I am sure most of us believe we know which ones are taking something to assist performance (not talking about Viagra PD or KD!!). Its tough to get involved but it might save a kids life.
I would rather have my son around later in life rather than visiting the cemetery than hitting 500 ft bombs by getting involved NOW.
Life is about choices and the choice is up to you what you do as a parent.
Why do they take them? The pressure of the game? Seeing what they see on TV from their hero's? When Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, Palmiero, Sosa, Pudge can all go from skinny little ruts into hitting these 500 ft HR's it makes our kids all wonder if they too can improve their game by taking enhancement type substances.
I would check any HS athlete adding 40pds of muscle within 2 plus yrs no matter who they are and in whatever sport especially a HS athlete. Not picking on anyone (rather be safe than sorry later saying if I only did this). IMO, talking to our kids about supplements of any kind should be done by the school and at home. We have all heard of kids taking supplements and I am sure most of us believe we know which ones are taking something to assist performance (not talking about Viagra PD or KD!!). Its tough to get involved but it might save a kids life.
I would rather have my son around later in life rather than visiting the cemetery than hitting 500 ft bombs by getting involved NOW.
Life is about choices and the choice is up to you what you do as a parent.
Train,
Sounds like we are on the same page w/this topic.
I worry about the supplements that a lot of athletes are taking right now, they claim to be safe, they are sold over the counter but what will the future hold?
I remember taking a very "safe" sleep aid called Tryptophen back in the early 80's to help me sleep while traveling for business. It was sold at the drugstore as a supplement/amino acid and I thought that since that is what is in turkey that makes you sleep it has to be safe.....now they say it is bad for you and it is no longer sold.....
Everytime I hear the word Creatine I think, isn't that what they test the levels of to see if your kidney's are working????? Makes me wonder what long term effect that will have.
How about all the people who took Phen Phen to lose weight and now there are countless people with heart issues.....Luckily I never took that one...
I have had a heart problem for years and now wonder if any of the things I took in the past that were reguarded as safe and sold over the counter in major stores/pharmacy's are to blame.....they have never found the problem but 3x I have been taken by ambulance and been treated as a possible heart attack w/nito. and I can tell you it scares me to death......and there is no explanation for this so could it be something that I did to myself?????
Kids be careful..........what is good now might come back to harm you later.
Sounds like we are on the same page w/this topic.
I worry about the supplements that a lot of athletes are taking right now, they claim to be safe, they are sold over the counter but what will the future hold?
I remember taking a very "safe" sleep aid called Tryptophen back in the early 80's to help me sleep while traveling for business. It was sold at the drugstore as a supplement/amino acid and I thought that since that is what is in turkey that makes you sleep it has to be safe.....now they say it is bad for you and it is no longer sold.....
Everytime I hear the word Creatine I think, isn't that what they test the levels of to see if your kidney's are working????? Makes me wonder what long term effect that will have.
How about all the people who took Phen Phen to lose weight and now there are countless people with heart issues.....Luckily I never took that one...
I have had a heart problem for years and now wonder if any of the things I took in the past that were reguarded as safe and sold over the counter in major stores/pharmacy's are to blame.....they have never found the problem but 3x I have been taken by ambulance and been treated as a possible heart attack w/nito. and I can tell you it scares me to death......and there is no explanation for this so could it be something that I did to myself?????
Kids be careful..........what is good now might come back to harm you later.
I don't have a huge problem with random testing -- I can live with the civil liberties controversy when it comes to HS athletes. But, who do you want to administer the tests? In other words, will you test your son at home? If not, why not? I suppose I know the answer (for many of us) --- simply put, we want someone else to do the dirty work. We want to continue to trust our kids and demonstrate our trust by believing them when they tell us that they do not do drugs....even if we have concerns. Without opening another large can of worms here, I think I will be able to tell if my son begins doing steroids. But, I may not be able to tell if he is smoking pot on the weekends. Obviously, I want him to do neither. But, do we want our sons to be banned from HS athletics for a positive test for pot?
Previous posts are right on -- this is a big issue.
Previous posts are right on -- this is a big issue.
I applaud that person. He/she is taking steps and accepting personal responsibility in preventing drug abuse in his/her family. I am disappointed in a community that is willing to relinquish this responsibility to government authorities. Test HS athletes now, then who is next? Drama club? Orchestra? MENSA candidates? (must be some drug making those kids smarter!)quote:Originally posted by oldbat-never:
I have a friend that has a home test kit in their kitchen, it is there, never been used but just the fact that it is there ready to be used has been enough to keep their son on his toes.
I can see it now, you will start receiving notices from school on Monday afternoon announcing that before you return to class on Tuesday you must report to the nearest Labcorp testing center to deliver a urine/stool/blood sample for testing, and that Labcorp will give you a 'permission slip' to return to class.
Dbg_fan:
They do it right up the street from you and I at Argyle... A friend of mine's son has been randomly pulled out of class 3 times for testing.....again I think that is great.....
They do it right up the street from you and I at Argyle... A friend of mine's son has been randomly pulled out of class 3 times for testing.....again I think that is great.....
It is not that far a stretch of the imagination to anticipate gov't authorities knocking on your front door and requesting that sample. Would you still think that this is great?quote:Originally posted by oldbat-never:
A friend of mine's son has been randomly pulled out of class 3 times for testing.....again I think that is great
OBN -- so the same kid has been "randomly" tested 3 times? <-- seems like a statistical abnormality. Ummm, how many athletes are tested each week?
It is a small school and this kid plays multiple sports so maybe that is it and actually it might have been 3x in the 2 years he has been there............
quote:Originally posted by honest and unbiased:
I for one believe that this responsibility lies with the parents, not the school administrators.
quote:Originally posted by dbg_fan:I applaud that person. He/she is taking steps and accepting personal responsibility in preventing drug abuse in his/her family.quote:Originally posted by oldbat-never:
I have a friend that has a home test kit in their kitchen, it is there, never been used but just the fact that it is there ready to be used has been enough to keep their son on his toes.
Too many times parents think it's someone else’s responsibility to take care of their children. While it does take a village, ultimately, the parent should hold their child accountable/responsible.I'm not necessarily talking about the hsbbw parents. They're very involved. Their kids are the lucky ones.
Ya know, this whole thread started out with a link the the DMN about a story on random drug testing in HS. We've read some interesting points on both sides of the aisle and, frankly, the restriction of civil liberties (DBG)is a compelling one, IMO. We've talked about the problems schools have had administering these tests and there's no doubt in my mind that coaches who have skirted around the "no pass, no Play" program will find their way around this as well.
The argument "to test or not to test" aside, it's occured to me that we're not nearly as talkative about the real issue: Is there a steroid problem in high school baseball. We can argue about whether we should test or not and whether or not the testing will reduce the problem--if it exists--all we want. But, folks, is there a problem? FO seems unimpressed by the statistics, I'm horrified on the other hand if it's 2% (probably a little overreaction on my part and I think it's higher, for the record.)
Simple test, I think: Do our sons know where to get steroids should they be inclined to take them. Have we asked them? What were their answers? I know this is extremly naive on my part but if the "Big Mikes" (wasn't that the alias of the one at the center of the firestorm last year?) are still in business and our boys know who they are...
Yes, they know where to get the other drugs, too, I would think, but one at a time.
JABO
The argument "to test or not to test" aside, it's occured to me that we're not nearly as talkative about the real issue: Is there a steroid problem in high school baseball. We can argue about whether we should test or not and whether or not the testing will reduce the problem--if it exists--all we want. But, folks, is there a problem? FO seems unimpressed by the statistics, I'm horrified on the other hand if it's 2% (probably a little overreaction on my part and I think it's higher, for the record.)
Simple test, I think: Do our sons know where to get steroids should they be inclined to take them. Have we asked them? What were their answers? I know this is extremly naive on my part but if the "Big Mikes" (wasn't that the alias of the one at the center of the firestorm last year?) are still in business and our boys know who they are...
Yes, they know where to get the other drugs, too, I would think, but one at a time.
JABO
quote:Without opening another large can of worms here, I think I will be able to tell if my son begins doing steroids. But, I may not be able to tell if he is smoking pot on the weekends.
You will.
You will.
If you pay attention, ask questions, explain the risks.
Tell them you are aware of the issue, you know the risk, communicate, communicate, communicate.
Tell them that you expect and trust them to do the right thing.
It breaks my heart that we say to 3999 kids that we're too stupid to know what is going on, we don't trust you, so take this test to satisfy our insecurity.
JABO, I appreciate your comments above and thank you for considering another point of view.
Across the board, the statistics indicate that steroid use is relatively insignificant. 97% are not involved. There are those that consider 1 in a million to be to many. I do. But, I am not willing to test the 999,999 others.
I think peer pressure is the biggest factor. Here is where to be concerned. Know the parents and players on your son's teams. Every year. Know how the leaders of the team function. Every year. There can be one kid, a senior on the team, that does not handle some type of performance pressure, and can push that down to the younger players. THEN, you can have a situation where, although statistically insignficant across the nation, IT IS YOUR WHOLE TEAM. I think this could be what happened on some of our metroplex teams.
Ask you son about the leadership and structure of the team. Make sure you know how that works. Ask them to consider how they will lead when they are in that position.
T-Bird, here is where your young freshman can be in a position to change things if necessary. Ask him to consider how the leadership on his team works. Does he think it is good or bad? How will he do it when he is a senior? Where there are problems, this is one way to start a new trend.
Make them talk to you. Keep a constant dialogue with them.
This is how to keep it from happening to you. Testing my kid won't help yours.
I'll leave it to your imagination as to how I learned this.
You can observe a lot by listening.........
FO,
Some great points, and trust me, we have asked him until he is ready to run out of the room screaming.
Fortunately for us, he seems to have a solid moral compass...not perfect but solid. He said none of the seniors have ever tried to push him into anything and I am not aware of them doing much wrong except dipping (I am sure they are, but I am not aware). They have respected him that way.
Hopefully he, and other players, can realize just how incredibly dangerous any drugs are, not just steroids. If they want to get them, they will and no amount of testing will stop it. They have masking agents, etc., to cover your tracks.
In the end, each player must make a choice and we, as parents, hope they make the right one.
Some great points, and trust me, we have asked him until he is ready to run out of the room screaming.
Fortunately for us, he seems to have a solid moral compass...not perfect but solid. He said none of the seniors have ever tried to push him into anything and I am not aware of them doing much wrong except dipping (I am sure they are, but I am not aware). They have respected him that way.
Hopefully he, and other players, can realize just how incredibly dangerous any drugs are, not just steroids. If they want to get them, they will and no amount of testing will stop it. They have masking agents, etc., to cover your tracks.
In the end, each player must make a choice and we, as parents, hope they make the right one.
quote:we have asked him until he is ready to run out of the room screaming.
Somehow, I knew that.
quote:a solid moral compass...not perfect but solid
quote:They have respected him that way
quote:except dipping
Seemingly, an important part of the peer pressure process and the baseball rights of passage, outlawed and enforced pretty vigorously at the college level, at least where I have observed (by the umps and Coach Hays, specifically), anyway.
But, nothing a high school admin enjoys more than getting to kick a young successful athlete off the team for dipping. The long term effects are well documented. It is a bad habit, difficult to break, like any tobacco product, the nicotine is addictive.
Oddly, a pet peeve of mine, raising far more concern with me, than steroids.
And, is a dumb thing under the dumb things rule at our house.
Don't give the high school admin the opportunity.
When I see the evidence, I say, "You know that is a really dumb thing..... It is a really bad habit that will rot your gum off and do you really want to have to deal with the DA at the school?"
Weirdly, this is post 911.