Umpire Extraordinaire!

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:
The players were told to stay off the field. It wasn't whether or not anyone agrees with it...it was stay off the field. The ejected player did not.

Yes, it is exciting to hit a HR and the players should be happy, but that isn't the point. They were told to stay off the field and they didn't. Same with a sac bunt. If the players are told by the umpire to stay off, and they don't, then they should be prepared to accept the punishment.


If the association that oversees the umpires has an issue with that umpire, they can deal with him after the game.

Darn It... I hate to agree with Tycho...

I agree with what bball37 says...watch the video. The players are told to leave the field and the player in question basically goes around the umpire and gives a "high 5" to the batter anyway. If anything, the player "shows up" the umpire by his actions and portrays the message that I'll do what I want.

Letot,

How do you know if this umpire ever played baseball before? Do you know him? If not then please refrain from making accusations as to an umpire's qualifications. I would bet he has played baseball.

quote:

Many on here may remember when teams would take a knee along the foul line, watching the opposing team take in and out. This practice is no longer aloud by the rules. Why? Kids talk smack, and the third baseman would let loose on his throw to first and “accidentally” hit the one being disrespectful, causing a fight.

I know an infielder who did this! :-) His coach told him to do it!

xpbx - what are you talking about ? Please show me in my post where I made an accusation. If you will take the time to read my post again a little more carefully you will see I was not talking about a paticular umpire, I stated all umpires. I have no idea if the umpire your talking about has ever played or not. Please take the time to read my post again then get back to me.

I have removed the umpire's name from this thread. Please don't add the name back in. Thanks!

Julie

Yes, the umpire had the authority to do this, but he wasn't thinking about the "big picture". I'm guessing, from all the comments, that he was having a rough game. Maybe, he had just been "brought up" to the higher level varsity games and he wasn't prepared for the intensity of a game like this. I definitely have a dog in this fight by being an umpire, but I also have a son that went to college on a baseball scholarship. The bottom line is that the umpire didn't do anything against the rules or against policy, but the player did.

Just wondering...What seems to happen in frame 1:43:43? I won't say what I think.

Let me open your eyes to a few things:
HS baseball umpires are the "red-headed stepchildren" of hs officials. Have you ever seen football or bb officials trying change clothes discreetly and put on protective gear in a parking lot (in less that desirable weather). And after a game, the other officials can slip into a locker room (at room temp); shower, change clothes, and avoids the angry Dad- whose son had a bad game. And though we try going to the edges of the parking lot, we are still visible to the people who want to drive up and tell us how much "we suck" or how we cheated their kids.
Now let me add something that I know you've never considered. Though we get paid, this is a part-time job. Most of the time we arrive at the ballpark after working an 8-10 hr day at our "real job". And maybe we just fought our way thru the Dallas rush hour traffic. So now comes our expectations for this baseball GAME- we need to be perfect . . . especially behind the plate. And what would perfect entail? Well in a typical 7 inning game we would see 200-300 pitches. But let's say we have 3 gross misses (misses that everyone in the park knows that you missed . . . including the blind man in the 2nd row). By doing a little math, that means you were 98.5 to 99% accurate (or right). Do you know another modest paying, part-time job in which you can be booed, shouted at, and called an assortment of colorful names, when you MEET VERY HIGH EXPECTATIONS 99% OF THE TIME?
I can tell you that I played hs and a little college ball, and I often said, "How could he miss that"? As a pitcher you think that a lot. Before I started umpiring, I would sit in the stands and make the same comment. But if you got behind the plate to do your part-time job, wearing a mask with bars on it, trying to judge a baseball moving straight at you with various spins and speeds (up to the low 90 mph range), you might think differently. And perhaps most importantly, the strike zone isn't a stable, consistently sized, 2 dimensional box- like the pitch tracker box shown on TV for the big league games. It's an ever-changing 3 dimensional box that floats in mid-air (with home plate as the 3rd dimension laying a foot or so below in the dirt).
Lastly, no one feels worse than the umpire when he misses a call. Most of us are perfectionists that want to be right 100% of the time. But hey, we have to suck it up and get ready for the next of many pitches ahead- because maybe a scout is checking out the pitcher, or the winner of this game gets the last spot for the playoffs, or the coach’s job is on the line. Nothing like a little pressure on your part time job- as a 100 or so people observe, critique, and often criticize. Maybe half of them will go home happy . . . and that's a good day for us!

25e5: I haven't watched the tape, but I will check it out now.

I see what you mean- that's pretty sorry. I guess you could say it proves my point.

"behind the mask" - that was a horrible post, you couldn't call hogs, if you had one more eye you would be a cyclops, Stevie Wonder could make that call, what game are you watching, "rabbit ears" tuck those ears back under your hat.

quote:

Originally posted by 25e5:
Just wondering...What seems to happen in frame 1:43:43? I won't say what I think.

Looks pretty bad.

I'm sure it's exactly what it looks like...nice way for a captain to represent his school.

Still not as ugly as what happened in frame 1:22:06

quote:

Still not as ugly as what happened in frame 1:22:06

I wouldn't agree with that. Every other player seemed to understand the umpire's authority and instruction except the starting pitcher. And you can tell from the tape he understood, initially backed off, then ignored the umpire's authority and he paid the consequences for challenging the field authority. I was thinking the kid probably learned a lesson but based on 1:43:43 he clearly didn't.

Tx Husker - If you will take another look he was not the only player, the on deck batter went all the way to home plate and their were 3 or 4 other players in the area as well, why weren't they all tossed. And if you want to get picky the player who hit the HR took his helmet off before entering the dugout, another violation, why wasn't he tossed.

Both player and umpire showed bad judgement, lets just leave it at that.

It looked to me like the others all started to retreat after the umpire instructed them to back off. The on deck hitter was entering the batters box getting ready to hit. Did you want him to go back to the dugout? I don't think the umpire should have made as big a deal out of it...but we can't hear the sound to hear what the FM players were saying like he could. Like it or not, the umpire is the authority on the field like the teacher is in the classroom.

let's not assume anything was said, no evidence of that.

quote:

let's not assume anything was said, no evidence of that.

That's my point. Since you don't know if anyway was or wasn't said, it's pretty darn hard to say if the umpire did or didn't over-react. But you don't need sound to conclude anything on the player's actions...at either point in the tape.

Tx Husker - I can't agree with the players actions after the game but I still believe the player did nothing wrong and the umpire overreacted.

Again - both umpire and player showed poor judgement IMHO, let's just leave it at that.

quote:

Originally posted by 25e5:
Just wondering...What seems to happen in frame 1:43:43? I won't say what I think.

I'll tell you what it looks to me what happened. It appears that #30 turns and spits at the umpire as the umpire walks by after the game. What class.

If you watch the video in super slow motion you can actually see the loogie pass thru the umpires right shoulder and then hit the principal who was sitting in the second row.

Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode I saw many years ago.

Chief - No way one loogie could do that, there had to be another spitter. Check frame 1:59:01, you can see a suspicious shadow behind the grassy knoll.

#30 was ejected - why was he walking out on the field after the game ? Certainly not to apologize to Blue for disrespecting his directions.

Even if that was the worst-called game in the history of HS baseball, it still doesn't warrant getting spit at in public by an 18 yr-old kid.

Rules of decency are such that people do not spit on one another. I am sure the yellowed haired general would not have spit on an Indian squaw. But this guy is an umpire, surly that is the exception to the rule. Even a blind guy can spit at an umpire. To prove my point, this young man will see no ramifications from his deed. Rules exist that state you must remain in the dugout, (especially during a live ball…leaving the dugout for a sac bunt, come on… think about it) but a specific rule does not exist about spitting, except on the baseball.

getting ejected was probably not a good call. Spitting at the end should be a suspension from school

quote:

Originally posted by dieselpusher:
getting ejected was probably not a good call. Spitting at the end should be a suspension from school

Does the coach or AD have the spherical objects to do this? Probably not.

Not a good call on his part when there were many scouts watching him.

After seeing/hearing FMHS play twice now, it doesn't surprise me that something other than the obvious went on during this whole thing. FM talks $**t the entire time, calling out players on the field, getting personal, etc...obviously their coaching staff is fine with it. I know win or lose our kids play with class and if our kids ever do anything other than cheer for their own team, the coaching staff is all over them.

DD - who is your team ? If it happens to be SL then I was at your place on Tuesday and I personally saw and heard a group of students sitting in the back of trucks insulting not only the FM players but their parents as well. And to boot they were doing it with an amplified loud speaker. If any of these players plan on playing at the next level they better get use to it, it only gets worse.

P.S. - I enjoy seeing the student body support their team.

"What is both surprising and delightful is that spectators are allowed, and even expected, to join in the vocal part of the game.... There is no reason why the field should not try to put the batsman off his stroke at the critical moment by neatly timed disparagements of his wife's fidelity and his mother's respectability". ~George Bernard Shaw

Trash talking is apart of the game. If an opposing player is affected by it, and breaks his concentration, then the trash talker just got an advantage. Getting personal with players, though i believe, is like a shot below the belt. Keep it mildly clean, keep it fun, just another factor in the game of baseball.

The amount and type of trash talking is a direct reflection on the players, coaches, school and parents. It's tollerated to different degrees. Some players, coaches, schools and parents are clearly more comfortable rolling around in knee deep trash than others. But don't sit there and say all do it because they don't.

quote:

But don't sit there and say all do it because they don't.

Agree 100%

I personally do not think trash talking is or should be part of the game. I’m not saying a player can’t have fun and there are not times when emotions run high, there are. To say this is part of a teams strategy is ridiculous. Baseball is a game best played on an even emotion. (Not oo high, not too low) I am not talking about fans here, just players. I do not recall watching a great team play that did not go about their business in a business like fashion. The game has changed in this respect over the years but not for the better in my opinion. Almost every week I will see a kid strike out on a pitch that was clearly way too close to take with two strikes, then try to show the ump up by body language and trash talk. Players should respect their opponent, the game and the umpires. Just my opinion, don’t trash me for it.

Whether they're right or wrong, I think that it is VERY important to turn over ultimate control of the game to the umpire, especially when the ball is in play.

Coach can come over and gripe after the play if he's got a problem (and of course, we parents get to "boo" all we want), but you CANNOT allow a player to override the ump's direction and get away with it during the game - no matter how insignificant it may seem. Unless we're all ready to turn over the ultimate safety liability to the kids, those ump's have to stay in control. Then, if it turns out Blue really screwed up the game, you just have to be willing to put in your complaints to the Commission or UIL and live with the results.

Based on that, I think Blue was justified in ejecting #30.

**Note to all Blue: Lest you think I'm an Ump-suckup, don't get the wrong impression, here. Yall's posts make me wonder when you're gonna go Unabomber on us. And understand I WILL be back there heckling...making you earn every penny of that thankless second job, nudging you ever so gently toward your clearly emerging insanity. But when you kick my kid out of the game, he's leaving quietly or else is a$$ is grass when he gets home. And if he ever spits toward you, he won't be coming back**

quote:

Originally posted by xPitcherx:
Trash talking is apart of the game. If an opposing player is affected by it, and breaks his concentration, then the trash talker just got an advantage. Getting personal with players, though i believe, is like a shot below the belt. Keep it mildly clean, keep it fun, just another factor in the game of baseball.

Unfortunately our society, especially our youth, have been allowed to take your opinions as the norm. The game should be played with respect for your opponent instead of stooping to disrespectful banter. In my opinion, the people that share your views have no clue what athletics are about. Especially in regards to high school athletics. I wonder if Nolan Ryan ever trashed talked. Of course one would have to respect the player himself to respect the notion.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief Nocahoma:
DD - who is your team ? If it happens to be SL then I was at your place on Tuesday and I personally saw and heard a group of students sitting in the back of trucks insulting not only the FM players but their parents as well. And to boot they were doing it with an amplified loud speaker. If any of these players plan on playing at the next level they better get use to it, it only gets worse.

P.S. - I enjoy seeing the student body support their team.

Chief...yes, SLC is my team.

When it comes to any type of athletics I think one of the most valuable lessons learned is sportsmanship. I don't get too riled up about fans, especially students. I think most parents/fans have a great deal of respect for the opposing team across our district...and to your point, if a kid is lucky enough to play at the next level or make a living in this great game, then they will certainly get an earful from the stands. I still wouldn't expect opposing college or pro players to disrespect one another...ever.

I'm a HS ump,summer ump, have 12th grade son that play's juco 2011. Umped so he could play on good teams/instructions. Ump now for love of the game.

Like coaching and player skills; umps can be ranked on a 1-10 scale. At the competitive 16U-18U level,
umping is not for the weak at heart.

Trying to do a good job at managing disrecpectful behavior or actions is the hardest part. TASO chapters do hold their umps accountable.

While a part-time job; sooner or later enough complaints do catch up with a consistent poor performance.

Hardest part for a competitive player, coach and parent is dealing with the early developmental years of the ump.